User talk:67.184.73.22

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An editor has expressed a concern that this user may be a sock puppet of Zdrv.
Please refer to editing habits and/or contributions; this policy subsection may also be helpful.

Account information: block log – current autoblocks – edits – logs

Contents

[edit] Advameg

Thanks for your note, 67. I told user:Mkj2357 the article could be recreated, as long as it did not contain the attack material it originally included. As long as the article adheres to Wikipedia's WP:NPOV policy, it could stay. That said, I believe the article is currently deleted. I'll note user:Mjk2357 is a frequent contributer to Wikipedia since 2004, and does not appear to have a history of disturbance (no blocks in two years). Recreating deleted material is certainly against policy, but I've specifically told Mkj an attack page cannot stay on Wikipedia. If you have further questions or comments, feel free to contact me. Best, Firsfron of Ronchester 07:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

*I concur with Firsfron. Also, I'm somewhat suspicious of an anon IP whose only edits are requests of various admins to ban another user. NawlinWiki 11:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Still you have not identified yourself or who you are associated with. If I was trying to hide my identity I wouldn't have chosen such similar names! And no, my messages were still visible to me but only when I was logged in. When I wasn't logged in - only then did my messages mysteriously dissapear. When I logged back in they were back. Obviously they were visible only to me so that I wouldn't know action had been taken against my posts. This is deceptive and borderline fraudulent. If you are deleting racist messages now, I'm glad. You certainly weren't doing that before. The Google Cache will provide verifiability if anyone cares enough about this nonsense to check. You know that I am far from the only one with complaints about your company. There is a reason Advameg is listed in the Wikipedia anti-Spam campaign! I did not list it - it was listed longe before I knew who your company was. So if that was original research it wasn't by me. As for NPOV I tried to include the fact that not ALL of the sites held by Advameg appear to be racist. It tried to be balanced but frankly there is not much good to say about your company. If you have some good things to say it would have been better to add them to the article than engage in a deletion war which you have won because of clueless users who actually thought I worked for Advameg and was promoting your comapny and that the page should be deleted because your company's HQ is uncertain (??) Mjk2357 18:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Mjk2357"

One last thought: If you would not treat your users so shabbily, I never would have done a WhoIs on city-data and I never would have found out about your (shabbily-received) sweepstakes and your spamming. A lesson in customer relations, perhaps. Because of, in my opinion, users ignorant of guidelines, you have won the delete war. But talk pages are for free discussion, as is my blog, as is Reddit, so don't think you can get away with deceptive behavior and spamming w/o someone calling you on it. Like I said, I'm far from the first person to complain about Advameg. You were listed on the anti-Spam campaign a long time before I found out who you were. (Since your IP is Naperville, IL I assume you are Advameg or a rep of the company.) Mjk2357 18:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sigh... endless Advameg debate

You're trying to distract from the main issues, which are your multiple content rules violations, multiple article-recreation rules violations (there is no such thing a deletion war, unless one user violates the rules - it was you who did it), lies, and attempting to use Wikipedia to get revenge. I'm sure no veteran Wikipedia reader will be swayed by complaints about "racist" or "disgruntled" users among 10,000s registered users on city-data.com's forum, because the very same users are the bane of Wikipedia and any other popular site that allows user contributions. Also, your usernames on both sites were chosen before you decided to start your attacks, so you couldn't change them. And please identify your full name, since you had no problem listing that information about Advameg and since some random username is obviously meaningless and provides less identification than even the IP. 67.184.73.22 19:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
So your goons can harrass me in real life? No thanks. You provide your full name since you represent a company. I believe I was not in violation of the rules. However I will let the article be deleted as I said since I was outvoted. Since you are new to Wikipedia you don't know but there is very much a thing as a deletion war. Also, promoting commercial websites via Wikipedia is also forbidden. According to the anti-Spam campaign (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam/2006_Archive_Sep#Advameg) you have done this. But since you obviously know something about the Internet you should know it is very easy to create a new user name if you want to do anonymous attacks - you can even buy established user names easily on eBay if you want to create a "history." Obviously I have not done that.
If you can explain to me: 1.) Why your company is listed in the anti-spam campaign (not by me), and 2.) Why my messages were visible only when I was logged in, we can both go back to more important things like life! Mjk2357 19:05, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
It was you who whined about the IP being used, while hiding behind a much more anonymous username and it is you who is obsessed with Advameg. Do you deny that you violated the rules to get revenge? This has been proven without any doubt - admins have said that recreating deleted articles is against the rules and you have broken all three main content rules. If you have any pride left, you should take your own suggestion and get a new username, because your username's reputation is now non-existent. Did you read about Advameg's contributions to the Wikimedia Foundation in August 2004? You're the one that's new here and banning you for breaking the rules, as you were on city-data.com (you were banned using the "Tachy Goes To Coventry" vBulletin banning option, look it up) is a good option. However, a better option might be to leave this profile up as a hall-of-shame example to all abusers of Wikipedia editing privileges. 67.184.73.22 22:51, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Advameg, aka City-Data.com deleted my posts and banned me "forever" to "their" forum pertaining to recommendations of a restaurant without notice. It is impossible to contact this company through their site, and I guess the posts here explain a great deal, even though Advameg/City-Data does/will not.

[edit] Wikipedia is not for sale to spammers

At last some honesty - you admit I was banned in a way to make my posts invisible but so that I didn't know I was banned. This is deceptive and fraudulent. You also admit your association with Advameg, which hardly makes you neutral. I believe you're so worked up over this because we anti-spammers are threatening your revenue stream. You didn't deny your violation of the rules - promoting a commercial website through linkspan. Why? Because you did it. After conversations with admins I have agreed to leave the article deleted, though I deny that it should have been.

And, as a (purported) newcomer (I think you are really User:Zdrv - who was warned for sockpuppeting), I'll let you know that a donation to Wikimedia by one of your front companies is not a bribe that allows you to violate the Wikipedia rules. Wikipedia is not for sale to spammers. To quote an admin on your own talk page: "I'd be suspcious of an anon IP whose only posts are requests to block another user." You're not going to get me banned or hurt my reputation. I am proud of this thread - it shows I have stood up to spammers and their bullying tactics. Once again, had you not been deceptive on City-data I would never even have found out about your spamming, so you only have yourself to blame. Mjk2357 23:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

You're not answering any of the questions raised about your deceptive and revengeful behavior. You're trying to make some outrageous claims that half the Wikipedia conspired to get Advameg's very high quality long-established sites listed. Why should you not be banned? You have been exposed and you're trying to divert attention once again. Your attack article was full of lies, you couldn't even get the simplest facts like the name of the company or the websites owned correct. Sample statement from your "article" that will be obviously incorrect to anyone that knows anything about how popular ad-supported websites make money: "Its business model is unknown but is believed to involve sweepstakes." Such behavior should not be tolerated anywhere. I think this will be clear to any impartial observer and they will now know to watch out for you. 67.184.73.22 23:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not saying some of your sites were not listed legitimately. Even the anti-Spam campaign says: "Some of these sites were listed by long-established users." But certainly not all of them. Any listed by User:Zdrv or one of his sockpuppets (i.e. - you!) can be deleted under policy. As far as my being banned, the admins disagree with you. The admins are usually pretty fair. I had a debate with a Nobel prize winner on Wikipedia (look it up!) and I won. What chance do you have? I'd give it a break. Why are you so worked up if I'm just a random nutcase as you claim? The anti-spam campaign is threatening your "business model," (such as it is). That's why you're sitting here a 8 PM arguing with me instead of out doing something useful like creating good articles. Why don't you make an Advameg article yourself? Oh that's right, spammers don't like to draw attention to themselves.
Also, where are the ads on city-data? I don't see any. There aren't any on the forum at least. All I see are fishy sweepstakes offers. I know sweepstakesratings.com rates your sweepstakes on the low end, that's all. I've made no other accusations about your sweepstakes.
I will end this discussion as useless unless you answer the following questions:
1. Explain how you got listed as a spammer by several long-established users, including User:Wmahan, as a sockpupetter by User:Petaholmes and as a "suspicious IP" by User:NawlinWiki if your behavior here has been legit.
2. Explain why you think, as an anon IP, you can block a long-established user who has accepted the decision of the admins?
If you are not willing to dialogue on these points I will ignore you as User:Firsfron has already suggested we do. Mjk2357 00:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
One last time, this is how it went: I was treated deceptively on city-data, which you yourself have admitted. So I did a WhoIs on your company to see what the deal was. I then found out you'd been listed as a spammer on Wikipedia. I researched some more and created the article. Yes the article has been deleted but the admins have also referred to you as "suspicious" and have told me to beware of you and not give you any personal info. Why do you think that might be?
You also lied to the admins in saying you'd deleted the "worst" of my posts when in reality they'd all been effectively deleted through the Bad-Faith Coventry method, which by the way good admins don't use. As you know I have experience as a moderator and an admin on other sites. When we block people we tell them.
You have not denied linkspamming, because you have done it. You do not deny being a sockpuppet, because you are one. You're too smart to lie but you keep dodging the issue yourself. Go away you are starting to smell very very socky. Make some real contribs to Wikipedia like I have then maybe I'll waste time with you - that is if you don't get banned for the 14th time for being a sockpuppet. Mjk2357 01:25, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


<------Since I was not banned, nor will I be, and this conversation is mainly about Advameg, the change was legit. It is my talk page. The mirror discussion on your talk page you may title as you wish. Now I am doing you the favor of responding to your points. If you don't then respond to mine above, this conversation is done. Here are my responses.:

1. Yes, I was banned - without anyone telling me. As for my "worst" posts, I'd love for you to reproduce them here and the Wikipedia community can judge how bad they were. But wait, you can't, you deleted them. In contrast other users warning of "black gangs taking over" and non-existent "race riots" in schools that never had riots and all did not have their posts deleted. If you don't think that is racist than we'll have to agree to disagree.

2.There were no lies an inaccuracies. Unless you are doing more deceptive deleting, anyone can check the city-data form and see the racist posts that were not deleted. That also covers verifiability. No I am not a fan of Advameg (obviously), but I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt with qualifiers like "possible" and "allegations." I also said some of the other domains you held did not appear to be racist and in fact presented a positive view of African-Americans.

3. Two of the deletions were not by admins - and one of the times I had placed a "hold on" tag which is supposed to stop deletions until an admin can review it. A regular user deleted the article for the weird reason that the HQ of Advameg was uncertain. Another regular user deleted it because he thought the article was pro-Advameg, believe it or not. Once I read my messages from the admins I let the article stay deleted. Have you stopped your spamming after being contacted by admins? No, you've used sockpuppets.

4.I will never have remorse about attacking spammers. That having been said, unlike you, I accept admin decisions. Talk pages are not part of official Wikipedia article content. Users are allowed to express their feelings freely on talk pages - which we both have done.

Now that I have answered your points please answer mine:

1. Are you the user Zdrv or have you ever used sockpuppets? Are you responsible for the nearly 100 instances of linkspam attributed to Advameg by User:Wmahan?

2. Did you lie to the admins when you said only my worst posts had been deleted, keeping in mind a Conventry action is an effective deletion - that is not disputed anywhere.

3. Have you promoted your own business on Wikipedia? This is a clear rule violation.

4. If you are acting in good faith, why have the admins called you "suspicious" (User:NawlinWiki) a "spammer" (User:Wmahan) a "sockpuppeteer" (User:Petaholmes) and warned me not to give you any info about myself? (User:Firsfron) Mjk2357 02:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

You have not answered my questions so you are the one changing the subject. I am allowed to do what I want with titles on my talk page, as you are with yours. My status as a long-established user shows that I am not in the habit of violating rules. Once the admins informed me I was violating the rules I stopped. You, on the other hand, have not stopped spamming, sockpuppeting, or, evidently, trolling.
I asked for my comments to be moved to the "About the Forum" section! - but instead they were deleted. There should be records of this on your site. According to GoDaddy.com, city-data.com is registered to Advameg. If it is inaccurate take it up with them, not me. Once again, not original research on my part. If you are not Advameg it's quite suspicious your ISP is right next to their headquarters.
I don't know what your business model is. I believed it to involve sweepstakes because that's all I could find out about Advameg. Where are these ads you speak of? I can't find them on city-data, at least not in the forum.
One more thought... If Advameg is a long established user, where is your long-established account? Answer - nowhere, because you have used at least 14 sockpuppets to cover up your spamming! Admit it, you've been warned far more than I have.
Anyway, you are not engaging in a two-way dialogue. The position of the admins is clear - the article cannot be recreated by me, but also your behavior is "suspicious" and I get the benefit of the doubt as a long-established user. Case closed. If you don't want to answer my questions as I answered yours, then this conversation is over 67.whatever, or should I say Zdrv. Night! Mjk2357 04:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for restoring (some of) my posts. I'll take that as a peace offering. Any interested party can now go to city-data and get an idea of what I posted. They can also see that my reputation was >10 which means more people approved of my posts than disapproved. In fact the only negative vote I ever got was from a moderator.

Keep in mind though that this does not give you the right to start another Astroturfing campaign on Wikipedia. If you care about Wiki rules as you claim to please create a proper user account and cease using sockpuppets. Thank you! Mjk2357 19:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

If anyone actually reads this and wants to see what the fuss was about go to http://www.city-data.com/forum/search.php?searchid=199491. I don't think my posts were out of line - you be the judge. Mjk2357 20:38, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad this is resolved. I will not recreate the Advameg article if that's what you mean by "strange reverts." However I reserve the right to delete your linkspam. If you do not believe the links to your own company that you and your sockpuppets have created to be linkspam, please read the policy. It clearly is spam. You could also take up the issue with User:Wmahan who has listed you as a Spammer. Mjk2357 11:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The attempts to promote Advameg using Wikipedia are unacceptable and must stop

I won't take a position on the content of the article, which has been deleted again. However, the attempts to promote Advameg using Wikipedia are unacceptable and must stop. ―Wmahan. 17:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I will let Zdrv get bored and wander off to spam other sites. Then I'll resume deleting his spam. He thinks I'm just on a vendetta but I delete all spam I see not just Advameg's! Also although I cannot recreate the article I think someone else should. Wikipedia users should know who is behind spam - and, actually, any company accused of spamming should be able to defend itself on an article as well. Thanks! Mjk2357 18:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)