Talk:5-Hydroxytryptophan

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[edit] Risks and Side Effects are Understated

There is very little discussion of risks and side-effects associated with this agent. Experts should contribute more here. 142.162.15.238 19:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Is 5-HTP really an amino acid? I know L-Tryptophan is, but I was under the impression that 5-HTP is not. jkl_sem 12:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Source for psychostimulant study?

The bit about 5-HTP treatment for cognitive deficits resulting from amphetamine use has reference 11 attached to it, but reference 11 doesn't talk about amphetamines at all, it's the abstract of a study involving 5-HTP and THC. 67.84.146.125 05:48, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

You're right, I hope someone can fix this, I wouldn't want to remove the whole statement just because somebody has accidently cited the wrong paper or something. --Mark PEA 17:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Something very strange happening with this article...?

Have a look at these two revisions: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=5-Hydroxytryptophan&oldid=127717223 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=5-Hydroxytryptophan&oldid=127760178

Is it just my browser, or is the second (more recent) one missing most of the article? Can someone clear this up for me? --henryaj 10:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Woops, I've fixed it now. I added a comment tag without the appropriate closing tag. KonradG 11:10, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Constructive Criticism is Encouraged

I just added a bunch of PubMed citations r.e. metabolism of 5-HTP, B6 (PLP), etc.

I'm not sure the comment "Bad Article" is warranted. Nor am I convinced that citations need to be research, per se. Citations to historical use and clinician experience, anecdotal as they may be, can provide both context and scope. That said, I guess the preceding comment worked. It's shaped up quite nicely, I think.

Following the citations, I see that L-tryptophan appears to have been re-legalized by the FDA. X14n 07:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the factually reliable citations to this article! At this point, if there are no objections, I will take the 'not verified|article' tag off the main article page. If there are sections which research is still in question, please do tag the section for follow-up. -- ViaBest 17:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bad article

This article is in a very bad quality. Much more is needed in terms of proper references. What "natural healing professionals" claim is not important, the main focus must be what has been shown about 5-HTP by credible research, and it must be cited. --Per Olofsson 23:15, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

This article has been updated with cite's and credible research. I would be curious if Per Olofsson (see previous comments) would still assert this article is 'bad' -- ViaBest 17:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contridictions/Error in article?

Was tryptophan or L-tryptophan banned?

"...L-tryptophan, was banned in the United States because of a tainted batch..."
"Tryptophan...contaminated shipment...ban it as an over-the-counter supplement."

And then also this which references something previously in the article that must have been removed.

"Recently, however, as noted above, pharmaceutical grade L-tryptophan has become available"

The article is ambiguous, but not in error. For the purposes of this article, tryptophan and L-tryptophan are the same thing. Almost all amino acids of biological origin are of the L- form. Stevewylie 03:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you!

Just a message to thank whoever made the warning about too much 5 htp and seratonin syndrome. The guideline is to never take more than 300 mg in a 24-hour period. Unfortunately, I have 400 mg in my system right now. So, I'll hold off on taking any tomorrow. I think I'll be fine, but this was a good warning to read because I was considering upping my dosage to 500 mg! Thank God I read this page! THANK YOU!!!!!

realy good stuff

I don't think that it should be necessary to read Wikipedia articles to understand the correct dosage of a medication, as Wikipedia does not provide medical advice. Please always read the dosage and intake on the label/leaflet. It is very hard to induce the serotonine-syndrome by solely taking 5-HTP, however please remember that neuroactive drugs (especially this class) have a ceiling effect and the "beneficial" effects do not increase with the dosage, however the side effects do. High dosages of any substance, or combination, could induce liver and/or kidney failure in certain people. PLEASE be careful.--nicowalker 22:50, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I have a question. What some may consider a side effect, others may consider a desired effect. Would going above the prescribed limit possibly give the hallucinogenic effects mentioned in the article? It is an interesting line of thought, isn't that so? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShreeMulay (talk • contribs) 15:16, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are there ongoing clinical trials for 5-HTP?

Slow movement in clinical trials for this agent is an interesting phenomenon. Economic analysis would suggest that this would be an obvious thing to do.

The US federal government is probably corrupted beyond recovery on this issue. Have other countries organized stronger initiatives?

--The absence of FDA clinical trials for 5-HTP has nothing to do with corruption or conspiracy, but everything to do with economics. 5-HTP can't be patented. FDA clinical trials are horrendously expensive, and drug companies only undertake those costs if they anticipate financial return. Without a patent, any manufacturer could make a cheap knock-off. Witness Claratin: it used to be a highly profitable patent-protected medicine costing approximately 30x what it does now. No unpatentable chemical will ever be developed into a drug in the United States because the legal and economic systems make such drugs unprofitable.

[edit] how long has 5-HTP been on the market?

[edit] This is slightly non-NPOV

I'm no pharmaceutical fanboy but this is not a very encyclopedic statement: "Pharmaceuticals companies definitely have a vested interest in keeping knowledge about this agent at a minimum."

I understand the above statement if very difficult to substantiate with sources, however, I question how factually accurate it may show to be in the future. With the undeniable positive mental health benefit of 5-HTP, coupled with the extremely low occurrence of side effects; there is no question such an over-the-counter antidepressant drug would severely cut into the billion-dollar anti-depressant market. - ViaBest 17:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, and removed it for that reason. -D

Also "MDMA and 5-HTP information and advice" is a nice touch but it's not hyperlinked to text in the article, so it should be the bottom of the article.

On the subject of NPOV, I feel it should be dually noted that MDMA causes the same biochemical imbalance (depleted serotonin levels), that can be linked to clinical depression. From the 5-HTP article, I feel there may, incorrectly, be a bit of miss-perception linking illegal drug use, and 5-HTP which is simpley not the case. - ViaBest

[edit] Serotonin syndrome? Says who?

Where did the information about serotonin syndrome caused by 5-HTP come from? I have never seen a single documented case of serotonin syndrome being caused by 5-HTP. Someone should provide a reference for this, or take it down because it is false information.

I, for one, am thankful that this warning was listed on this page because as someone who was taking 400mg of 5-HTP a day, I was indeed experiencing everything that is listed on the page about serotonin syndrome. You might not have documented case information about 5-HTP being related to serotinin syndrome, but I have first-hand experience and I'm thankful that I read this warning -- because I had been considering upping my dosage. Therefore, I don't think that the reference should be taken out because it may help other people. Maybe it should just be refined to something like "it may cause serotinin syndrome...." Thanks. -- Anonymous 5-HTP User

Added two references to serotonin syndrome recognition--it isn't hard to anticipate that 5-HTP should be considered as a possible agent for causing serotonin syndrome and certainly a warning that 5-HTP could generate such a condition is more than appropriate, not to mention accurate.

I changed it to a warning, combined with a note that it can cause nausea and vomiting, as one can see by looking over at Erowid. 95% of the body's serotonin resides in the gut, so this isn't exactly surprising. [1] Minimum toxic dose in dogs is 23.6 mg/kg, which would be pretty high when scaled to a human, much higher than 300 mg. [2] Simonster 05:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I've read on other sites that trials (don't have a link, and they were only small scale) have been done as high as 900-1000mg! The general consensus seems to be that the risk of seratonin syndrome is only fairly significant if 5-HTP is taken along with anti-depressants. (Says somebody who is currently taking 50mg of 5-HTP along with an anti-depressant). Somebody taking 400mg a day should probably be under a doctors supervision anyway (in my humble opinion).

I think it would be worthwhile for someone to dig up references to the small-scale clinical trials mentioned by the previous user. If those trials observed limited adverse effects at 2-3x the typical dose, then that information should allay fears of serotonin syndrome at lower doses.

[edit] 5-HTP & Blood brain barrier

-At a lecture recently while doing behavioural neuroscience, we were told that 5-HTP does not cross the blood brain barrier when ingested orally & the health food shops talk a lot of crap... Is there any evidence saying against what the lecturer said? (Outside of Wiki of course)....Random viewer.

-- Not sure who told you that, but they are in serious error. In fact, it is Serotonin that cannot pass the blood-brain barrier (which is why you can't just take, say, a "Serotonin pill" and expect it to do anything for depression). However, without 5-HTP being able to pass into the brain, your brain would have a lot of trouble manufacturing Serotonin in the first place! In essence, Serotonin cannot pass the blood-brain barrier, but Trytophan and 5-HTP (its metabolite) -- both which are used in the process of manufacturing the body's Serotonin -- most certainly can. For that matter, 5-HTP passes the blood-brain barrier more readily than even Trytophan itself does, making it more reliable as a suppliment for that reason.

Further, I'd ask your lecturer just what they think is the building block for Serotonin itself. Also, ask them where in the body it is manufactured and, how ... if Trytophan and 5-HTP are the essential components used by the brain to make it... how it could be that 5-HTP does not cross the blood-brain barrier and still manage to accomplish this monumental feat? I would remark, I'm not very keen on most "health food shop" claims, but your lecturer is just wrong on this point at the least.

I suspect that one or more of the external links provided in the article here (the studies specifically) will cite that 5-HTP can pass the blood-brain barrier and is used in the manufacture of Serotonin.

---This should be cited if it is in dispute. Just saying "it must be in the citations somewhere" isn't up to wikipedia standards. If no one can find a reference in a scientific study, it should remain removed. This is in dispute in many fields online.

--It isn't in dispute, so there's no need to cite sources. Wikipedia shouldn't need to disprove every crackpot theory out there.

[edit] Renamed to 5-hydroxytryptophan, chembox, metabolic pathway

I renamed this page to 5-hydroxytryptophan, making 5-HTP a redirect. I implemented Template:Chembox_simple_organic, took away the Chemistry section, and made new images for the chemical structure and tryptophan-serotonin pathway. However, I have since uploaded new images on Wikimedia Commons, but I can't replace the old ones since my account is too new on there. I've put in requests to do that on the help desk though, so the new versions should be up soon. Jesse 01:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Migraine relief

Doing some internet reading suggesting 5HTP aids in Migraine releif?? http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/headachemigraine/a/Migraine.htm?? Anybody agree??

--a paper was written on this: Boiardi A, Picotti GB, Di Giulio AM, et al. Platelet met-enkephalin immunoreactivity and 5-hydroxytryptamine concentrations in migraine patients: effects of 5-hydroxy-tryptophan, amitriptyline and chlorimipramine treatment.Cephalalgia. 1984; 4:81-84. If you needed a cite for it. I think it would make a good addition. --MerKaBa 15:23, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Since 5-HT_1D agonists are used as migraine / cluster headache treatments, it seems obvious that 5-HTP would have some significance in treating migraines. --Mark PEA 10:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hospitalization

A friend of mine was just rushed to the hospital after taking one 200 mg capsule of 5-HTP. I'll write the follow up from this when he gets back, but this ultimately changes the comment about no reported hospitalizations.

I wish your friend the best, but if you do post something about it, please to not add any of that information to the main page, since it would violate the Wikipedia policy of no independent research. If you want to add it here, then there's no problem with that, in my opinion. Also keep in mind, that aside the from the "no independent research" policy this case does not really have much clinical relevance with a sample size of 1. So by all means, feel free to report what happened, but do not make changes to the page simply based on one person's experience. Thank you

FOLLOW UP: The comment was intended for the talk page only, as you said, but thank you for re-emphasizing this point about independent research. My friend's hospitalization was not linked to his 5-HTP consumption, which was his theory only. The medical practitioner did not link his symptoms to the 5-HTP, even after he presented this theory. -- YusufMJH, 10 December 2006

I have several friends and family who take ~ 300mg of 5-HTP daily. I am a bit confused, and curious as to what symptoms your friend experienced which cause his desire to seek emergency medical treatment. -- ViaBest 17:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the pharmacology section of this article

I have located two sources which seem to directly and indirectly refute the claim that 5-HTP should be used with a peripheral decarboxylase inhibitor "in order to prevent elevated levels of serotonin in the bloodstream (and their side effects, which include emesis and potentially fibrosis of the heart)"; for instance, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7619676 there it says that they gave 6 healthy males (I assume they mean human males) doses of 5-HTP "on two occasions in a randomised cross-over study.", and "This occurred without significant changes in blood 5-HT (serotonin) levels measured in platelet-rich plasma."

Another study, which investigated the effects of L-Tryptophan in men ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1365857&dopt=Abstract ) found that "Whole blood serotonin levels were almost unaffected by the Trp (L-Tryptophan) infusions.". Albeit L-Tryptophan is only a precursor to 5-HTP, nevertheless the data seems relevant since as a precursor, naturally, L-Tryptophan is converted into 5-HTP by the body.

Would someone with some expertise on the subject please step in and make the appropriate corrections if corrections are warranted? Or just give your opinion and maybe we can come to a consensus. Thank you. --EdgarEdwinCayce 09:51, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please insert this article into the WikiPharma project ? The substance is generally a diet supplement, but for many chronic diseases it is used massively. (See below).
The L-Tryptophan page/ is classified as chemical and biochemical (aminoacid) in the correct classification. The 5-HTA, a subproduct, should be classified into the pharmacology category also. In the UK L-Tryptophan's legal status is P and 5-HTA (plant extracted) is classed as GSL.--nicowalker 14:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This drug works wonders for fibromyalgia

I have been struggling with fibromyalgia/chronic stress syndrome for about 3 years now.

I couldn't drive more than 10 miles before becoming very tired. Working just 8 hours a day, I would be completely knocked out by the time I get home. I used to run my own business working at least 12 hours a day, sometimes 18 hours.

I started taking 5-HTP last week and boy! I drove like 50 miles in a day. Shopped all day the next day. Washed and waxed my SUV the following day! I think I have my life back.

If you have fibromyalgia/CFS, you owe it to yourself to try this drug. It is cheap and over the counter.

-Sola

[edit] Serotonin Syndrome

Despite all the warnings, serotonin syndrome is essentially impossible without an MAOI and an SRI[3]. Any link to 5-HTP seems unrealistic. KonradG 00:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tryptophan metabolites linked to bladder carcinoma.

5-htp is an intermediate in the metabolism of tryptophan to serotonin. The question arises, what is the potential of 5-HTP to be amongst those set of tryptophan metabolites linked to bladder cancer[4]? Is there any research existing linking 5-HTP to the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ShreeMulay (talk • contribs) 15:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

I didn't read the whole study (read: only looked at the table of activity/inactivity). It appeas that kynurenine is the responsible agent, not surprising as an aromatic amine. Whether 5-HTP is prone to the same metabolism as L-tryptophan I have no idea, perhaps the 5-OH group prevents the action of the enzyme which converts tryptophan to kynurenine, but maybe it doesn't. Further research needed and I expect there is some out there. --Mark PEA (talk) 17:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)