User talk:4shizzal

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Howdy, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for your contribution. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page (below).

Thanks for your contributions to Mali Empire and Songhai Empire. As you've probably noticed, Africa is sadly underrepresented on Wikipedia. If you're interested in continuing to work on these topics, I recommend checking out Wikiproject: Countering systemic bias and Wikipedia:Wikiportal/Africa; there's also an Africa Collaboration of the Week that you can help out with if you like. But most of all, have fun, and happy editing! --Dvyost 14:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Mistakenly put this message on your user page instead of user:Talk. My apologies! --Dvyost 14:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Ghana Empire expansions

Hey 4shizzal,

Glad to see you're keeping up the fine expansions--the list of rulers is particularly appreciated! I wanted to let you know that I've (at least temporarily) moved the article back to Ghana Empire pending further discussion. You make a good case for Wagadou Empire as a more accurate name (and that material is a great addition to the article), but it's important that we keep our articles in line with the way each subject is most commonly referred to in English; there's more detail about this on the article talk page now if you're interested. And if you do move a page, don't forget to move the links to it, too! This is time-consuming, but important to avoid double redirects and to keep Wikipedia as user-friendly as possible. Anyway, don't let the technical side get you down--you're doing some great stuff here! All the best, --Dvyost 17:17, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Sankore Scholars

Replied at my talk page. --Ezeu 18:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amharic

It is written like english--Halaqah 23:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good stuff

I see what ur doing, good stuff, funny i have been working on Sonni Ali Ber et al, working my way to all the African historical topics. Check out sankore.org they translate all kinds of stuff. I added a scholar named Muhammed Shareef they delete it, I added African Code they want to delete it. I reference www.africanholocaust.net they make accusations. yes it is eurocentric democracy. If i site Henry Gates or one of their people, or one of their sites its okay, but to site a African controlled site must obviously mean i have an AGENDA--Off course i do, my agenda is the progession of true freedom and plurality, then end of racism, and African self-determination, hence i am intrested in websites we own and control. I make sure credit is given to our greats now and then in African history not the greats they select for us. --Halaqah 03:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] kouroukan fouga

hi khello. im here to ask you what part(s) of the kouroukan fouga article need to be cited or verified to bring this piece up to snuff. i saw one source that was added (not by me) that seemed to have nothing to do with the article. your help in fixing this article will be appreciated. thanks in advance Scott Free 15:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Scott Free,
I just came to this article as part of the wikify project (but found the topic very interesting by the way!). My only concern with the references was that there were non within the body of the article. Also, for an article about such a historical document I would have thought there would be some more academic journal/book references to use that'll really improve the article even further (to be honest i think the article is pretty informative as it is- I added the [[Category: Mali Empire]] to give more of a context to it). I also think a few "See also" links would really put the article into context. If you want help with that stuff I'd be more than happy to do so, but at the moment I don't really have access to a library so can't really help with the sourcing side. Regards --khello 16:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree. I know of one source via UNESCO (that's how I found out about it originally). I will go through and site that one by the end of the week. thnx 4 the quick feedback. Scott Free 17:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
No worries- you just happened to catch me when I woke up! I'd be happy to help out with the article if you need it --khello 17:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your edits to Mali Empire

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, 4shizzal! However, your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but please note that the link you added in is on my spam blacklist and should not be included in Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia's external links policy for more information. If the link was to an Imageshack or Photobucket image, please read Wikipedia's image tutorial on how to use a more appropriate method to insert the image into an article. If your link was genuine spam, please note that inserting spam into Wikipedia is against policy. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! Shadowbot 19:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Atlantic slave trade

Wow! You look like an expert on the topic. I came to make more comments (probably as questions) based on your response at Talk:Atlantic slave trade. Are all African Americans assumed to be descended from slaves? How valid is that assumption? Is it possible for people (or even their descendants) to ever stop being "African Americans" and just become "Americans? I notice that Barack Obama is an African American, but his father was Kenyan, so I guess that answers my second question. Is he noticed to be different from slave-descended African Americans? I apologise if these questions are offensive—they are not meant to be—although they may be naive. Living in Australia, I don't come across many Americans, African or otherwise, although I have visited the USA. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 10:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Source on African History

Hey, I've seen alot of your work on the history of precolonial west africa- and africa in general- and I've been looking for the longest time for clear, concise and thorough information and history on them. Do you know of any books that contain decent information? Or what of the articles and studies used as references on their pages? Is there a way to access these and others without the use of journal subscriptions? (if that's even legal)

Even historical books on Amazon.com are scarce, many of them extremely expensive.


[edit] The sources

Hi and thnx for hittin me up. Here are some of my favorite sources. You're right; these books do get quite expensive, but I figure I owe it to my ancestors.

Books numbered 1-2 are indespensible sources for Pre-colonial African history. Books numbered 3-5 give you all the detail u ever wanted to know about the slave trade. Books numbered 6-7 have details and illustrations for African warfare; very useful Books numbered 8-9 are good on filling out the details on the respective states.

1. "Peoples and Empires of West Africa: West Africa in History 1000-1800"

   by G.T. Stride & C. Ifeka
   (Nelson, 1986)

2. "Introduction To African Civilizations"

    by John G. Jackson
    (Citadel, 2001)

3. "Slavery and African Ethnicities in the Americas: Restoring the Links"

   by Gwendolyn Midlo Hall
    (University of North Carolina Press, 2005)

4. "Exchanging Our Country Marks"

   by Michael A. Gomez
    (University of North Carolina Press, 1998)

5. "Africa and Africans in the Formation of the Atlantic World, 1400-1680"

    by John K. Thornton
    (Cambridge University Press, 1998)

6. "Warfare in Atlantic Africa, 1500-1800"

    by John K. Thornton
    (Taylor and Francis, 2005)

7. "African Arms and Armour"

    by Christopher Spring
     (British Museum Press, 1993)

8. "Amazons of Black Sparta: The Women Warriors of Dahomey"

    by Stanley B. Alpern
     (Hurst & Co Ltd, 2001)

9. "Fall of the Asante Empire: The Hundred Year War for Africa's Gold Coast "

    by Robert. B. Edgerton
     (Free Press, 1995)


Hope this has been helpful. And make sure to sign your comments next time.

Yes, thanks for that, and exscuse the various warnings on my userpage- everybody vandalizes at one point. :P

I'll register if we discuss anything more next time, and by the way, what of the sources listed in the Reference sections on these pages?

Ah! Sorry I haven't gotten back to you in awhile, but it's simple- when I ask for "References", I'm reffering to the various journal articles, books, etc. listed in the references section of the articles on precolonial africa, specifically west africa, again. How can I get access to them?

[edit] Re: Kouroukan Fouga

Hi. Yes, feel free to turn Manden Charter into a redirect and integrate all or part of it into Kouroukan Fouga. I'm no specialist of Africa; my area of research is the Pacific. I created that page because it exists in the French Wikipedia and seemed to be lacking in the English one. Good work, by the way! Aridd 23:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invitation

You have been invited to join the WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort focused on improving Wikipedia's coverage of Africa. If you'd like to join, just add your name to the member list. Thanks for reading!

Belovedfreak 12:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verifying these quotes

Hey, I was the one who asked of the sources before, but I had a question- are these quotes true?

http://www.jtf.org/ -Scroll down abit to "The Truth of Black Africa"- a series of sick, racist trash articles by a known jewish terrorist outlet denigrating african history. But I wish to ask of these quotes, and of what you think about the trash this site pumps out:

"The houses of Timbuktu are huts made of clay-covered wattle with thatched roofs. In the center of the city is a temple of stone and mortar, built by an architect named Granata. [Granata was an Arab Muslim whose services were obviously required despite the "learning" of Timbuktu's Negro inhabitants.]

The city is very much endangered by fire: during my second visit, half of the buildings burned in five hours thanks to a violent desert wind.

The king [the Tuareg ruler of Timbuktu] is a declared enemy of the Jews. He forbids any to live in the city. If he hears of a Berber merchant doing business with them, the merchant's goods are confiscated. [Webster defines the Berber as a "Caucasoid people of northern Africa living west of Tripoli."]

The judges, teachers and priests are appointed by the king. He honors learning greatly. [Except Jewish learning!] Many manuscripts are imported from Barbary [the land of the Berber] and sold in the markets at an exceedingly handsome profit.

The king makes war on those who do not pay him tribute. When he wins a victory, he has all of his enemies - even the children - sold in the Timbuktu market. The people of the city have many slaves."

These all come from the works of Leo Africanus. I honestly find it, well, hard to believe that the whole of the city would burn like that, and were the minarets really that unstable? Who was Granata? Did the Mansa really engage in such intensive levels of slavery? And what was the quality of the Minarets before modern times? What was the use of the importation of so many manuscripts from the Barbary coast?

Of course the scumbag who wrote this fails to mention that Berbers are a heavily mixed people with africans, many of them having only minor levels of "white" ancestry- this being true eve before contact with the Malinese.

[edit] Mali Empire

Happy to be of help! I'm actually going thru all sorts of different unassessed WikiProject articles. Once I got the hang of it for WP:NRHP, I couldn't stop myself. :)
I know one of the things is one inline citation per paragraph, roughly, which you've got. I would convert all the links in the body of the article into inline citations, to make it more consistent. If you have a decent word processor (WordPerfect or Word or somesuch), copy the article text into it and run spell/grammar check. With an article that big, it's easy to miss minor misspells and that sort of thing.
I'm gonna show you a trick I learned on the references. I'll do a few, and let you do the rest. It'll help condense the references. Gimme a few minutes.
Any more help needed, don't be afraid to ask. We all started knowing not much; goodness knows I did. Later! --Ebyabe 20:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Got carried away, but you see what I mean. Btw, I'm not sure how much it'll affect going GA, but I'd reduce the number of redlinks as much as possible in the article. I know, there's a lot. Either create stubs, or delink them, or a mix of both. Sometimes it's easy to go overboard with the wikilinking, doncha know. Anyway, hope that helps. Now on to assess more articles! :) --Ebyabe 20:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questions about Sankore and the Timbuktu Manuscripts

Hey, I again had some questions about Mali, this time involving Sankore.

The articles and pages on the Manuscripts Project are unclear on a number of topics. First off, are the manuscripts being examined indigenous to Mali or of external origin? How many were written by students, overall? How many were written by scholars? Where did the students generally come from? Where did the scholars come from as well?

In fact, I think this should be a focus of the Timbuktu Manuscripts and Sankore University articles, to clarify all these. But back on topic, what was the overall topic coverage and makeup of these manuscripts? How many were thesis works by students? Where did the students go on to work after graduation? How many of these manuscripts were based upon external works? Were there independent works held by academics and such who did field work throughout Mali? Was there a sort of catalogue system in Mali that held tabs economic processes, demographics, etc.? Did any of the students and scholars go on to work outside of Mali? Is there anywhere else in Mali that held manuscripts and scholarly works? There's just so much lack of clarification surrounding these empires...

And did Songhai continue Mali's works of scholarship? Also, since the Manuscripts are being made public online, how does that work? Will there be a paid subscription? Will there be any books released on this?

[edit] Contact Info

Hello, do you happen to have some sort of instant messaging service? There's many questions I have regarding West African history, and you seem to be very knowledgeable- far more than anywhere else I've found.

happy to help in any way. i'm not on instant messengers that much. i do have one however (scottfree001 on yahoo) its best to reach me here or on my gmail account (scottfree001). by the way, what's your name? mine is scott.

Well, as of now, I can't really access yahoo messenger- I'd be able to communicate with you via email. However, I just have a quick question about Mali/Songhai- the main page says that it reigned over a population of 40-50 million with only 400 villages, towns, and cities combined.... does that mean they were heavily urbanized? And where does the figure for 40-50 million come from?

The 40 to 50 million number for the empire's population comes from a teaching site of the National Museum of African Art. You can click on the link below to check it out.

The 400 villages, towns and cities fact comes from the records of Ibn Battuta whom visited the empire after Mansa Musa's reign. The quote can be found on the following site. I can email you Battuta's entire document if you have MS Word. It's very enlightening

As far as being heavily urbanized, I guess you could make that claim. According to research done by David Wilkinson for the University of Cali in Los Angeles (Spatio-Temporal Boundaries of African Civilzations Reconsidered), the capital of Niani had a population of 50,000 people by itself. The link to that paper is below.

The other major cities probably had populations in the same realm. A lot of the cities that were prominent in Mali during the imperial period still exist today. In contrast to the rest of the African continent and probably the world, the Mali Empire was heavily urbanized but not exactly heavily populated. Settlements were either densely populated or not populated at all. The south appeared to have the heaviest concentration of cities, but the wealthiest ones (outside of Niani) were in the north because of the trans-saharan trade routes. Hope that helped out. Glad to help on any further questions. Scott Free 17:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks! There's just so many questions I've had about these empires for awhile. Though I must ask- why did he give such a low number of population centers when the size of the empire really doesn't reflect that? Where did the museum article get it's source anyway? Was there a population boom after Mansa? Do you have any info on the demographic changes of this region? What do you think the population of Mali was? Are there any full-scale estimates?

And why do you now say it wasn't heavily populated? To an extent, I've heard some conflicting sources on certain aspects of these empires, and I'm just really trying to confirm this. And what do you as well mean when you say "either densely populated or not at all"? How many population centers were in Mali anyway? Is there a list?

Anyway, on the topic of the Timbuktu Manuscripts, how many of those are original works? Because the main article mentioned that students were required to copy as many books as they could, but I think the ones carrying this project out would diffrentiate.

What happened to Songhai and the like's population after these empires fell in the 1,500's? Did they die off? Was there some sort of migration of refugees into the inland coast of West Africa?

BTW, why does the "Manden Charter" article say that the abolition of slavery was integral in Mali? They practiced loads of slavery, though it was anothe form of the indentured servitude of other west africans, and slaves were actually better off.

One last thing- I'm guessing that many people died off falling Songhai's fall, as attested to in that "ethnic stereotypes" link, but what became of the many population centers in Mali and Songhai? From what I gather, the majority of them were destroyed or swept away over the years, but are the towns here contemporary or remnants?: http://www.dogon-lobi.ch/architecturealbum.htm

[edit] answers

I answered your questions in a numerical order so to make sure i covered everything. here it goes!

[edit] Response

  • 1. I'll send you the document as soon as I get home (I'm at work right now).
  • 2. I think he was only taking the time to document the settlements he saw. He didn't see the entire empire.
  • 3. I don't know where the museum got that figure, but I'm starting to doubt it myself.
  • 4. There might have been a population boom after Mansa Musa, but there's no evidence to support that. All evidence seems to support the idea that Mansa Musa inherited Mali at its height and didn't actually bring it there himself. I bet the population probably jumped during the early 1300s because of the stability and growth in territory starting with Sakura in 1285.
  • 5. No useful data on demographic changes in the region (West Africa). There are some facts I've just run across in a book (Africa: a short history; Robert O. Collins; Markus Wiener Publishers; 2006) which puts Africa's entire population at 47 million in 1500. This was after a period of growth. I doubt the book is that much off the mark, and I'm making preparations to edit the Mali Empire page as we speak since its population couldn't possibly be 50 million in 1350.
  • 6. After further evaluation (thanks in large part to your inquiry), I estimate imperial Mali's population at around 15 million people from approximately 1290 to 1440. The average size of the cities was about 25,000 people. Major cities were around 40,000 people. Do the math (400 notable cities X 25,000) you get 10 million. Throw in the plethora of villages and desert settlements under Mali's control and you could make the jump to 15 or even 20 million.
  • 7. No full scale estimates other than what i just make and the museum posted.
  • 8. By heavily populated, I'm saying it was densely populated. Populations were found in clumps instead of evenly spread out.
  • 9. In Mali you would have found either huge cities (20-50 thousand people) or very small towns (imagine villages or oasis settlements). This will become evident once you read the Battuta document.
  • 10. There were around 400 major population centers in the empire in 1352 according to Battuta. I've compiled a list of some and will email them with the Battuta document.
  • 11. I have no idea about the composition of the Timbuktu manuscripts. If you find out any info please let me know :)
  • 12. Great question. This question shows the true difference between Songhai (a short lived power) and Mali (basically the black roman empire). Songhai's population was never that big. most of it came from conquered peoples. The actual songhai population lived along the river. When the moroccans showed up, many migrated east into Niger and founded the Dendi Kingdom. Mali's population is still in Manden and about eight other countries throughout West africa. They were true colonizers. They spread from Northern Guinea/Southern Mali into Senegal, Gambia, Guinea Bissau, Guinea, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Cote d'Ivoire and Burkina Faso. Senegal, Gambia, Guinea Bissau and Guinea were all part of the Mali Empire and are still populated by Manding speaking populations. When Mali broke up, rogue warriors conquered Sierra Leone and Liberia (Manneh invasion). Mali's merchant class (Dyula) travelled into Burkina Faso and Cote d'Ivoire and established new states (Kong Empire).

13. That page is screwed up. i've already talked with the author. We're merging it to my Kouroukan Fouga page. Slavery wasn't abolished in Mali. They simply upgraded the treatment of slaves to a kind of serfdom. They were still bought and sold, but you couldn't abuse them. 14. People died off cuz stability in the region was destroyed. Many migrated to more stable, peaceful regions. The Manding largely spread south and southwest. the Songhai were pushed east when the Moroccans came in around 1591. The only people who benefited in the long run were the anti-Muslim Bamana/Bambara populations (related to the Mandinka) who conquered much of the area during the chaos (think Goths coming in to put Rome out of its misery).

Hope that covered everything. I'm really enjoying this. Hit me up with any other questions. Scott Free 14:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

...Wow. That's great. I've been looking for this kind of info for so long, you have no idea how helpful this is, thanks! I'll have some more later.

[edit] Atlantic Slave Trade and other matters

I am making these comments here not on the Atlantic Slave Trade talk page, partly because I want to make what may be some more wide-ranging comments. My first reaction to what you had put on that page was that you were a new user getting carried away. As soon as I looked at your user page and some of the articles listed as linking from it, I realised that I was completely wrong, and that you must have been making a substantial contribution for a long time. I know little of Pre-colonial African History, and am thus not qualified to judge its quality, but it looks impressive.

My concern is a lack of linkages between the articles you list on your user page and otehr articles. I sampled History of Ghana, perhaps a poor example; I found an absence of anything to highlight the fact that there were major articles elsewhere. A good way of doing this is to insert a 'main' template at the top of a section. This has been done on a couple of sections of Atlantic Slave Trade and might usefully be done with Middle Passage. This creates a hierarchy of articles, going from the general to the particular. I would also like to see the material on your user page (with all the lists) appearing as an article, such as List of Pre-Colonial African States. Such lists are often better as categories, but I have not yet discovered how to create a category. I am reluctant even to think of attempting this, as it is a subject of which I know nothing, which means that I will make mistakes.

I agree witrh you that the Atlantic Slave Trade article is probably long enough. What you have put on its talk page cites what look like reputable sources, though I do not really know. An article based on what you have written there about the scale of the trade might well be useful, but it should probably be a satellite article, with a brief summary in the Atlantic Slave Trade article, referring to it using a 'main' template. I am somewhat sceptical as to how good early population statistics are. I know that the estimates for medieval England are based on comparatively thin evidence, in particular the question of how severe the population decline after the Black Death was. I suspect those for Africa are even less good, in view of the lack of written records. However, there is no reason for not writing an article such as African Demography based on the best information available.

My examination of what there is in WP on these subjects has been cursory, and I may be telling you what you already know or suggesting that you produce things that already exist. If so, please forgive me. I think what I am really asking for is more structure and better aids to navigation within WP. This may involve creating more categories and adding them to the articles. I note there is a category, African Empires, but perhaps there should be another for (other) African kingdoms. Another random check among the articles you list on your user page is Kuba Kingdom. I note this only has one category.

However all said, keep up the good work. If you need to reply to this, the best place is on my user talk page - click on my name and then #talk'. Peterkingiron 21:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC) I note the following categories exist:

  • Former countries in Africa;
  • Former monarchies of Africa;

I am not clear how these and one concerning Empires relate to each other - perhaps this is enough categories, but I still think converting the list on your user page into an article is worthwhile. Peterkingiron 22:17, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Regret that I do not think I have the time to put in the missing links. Articles like History of Ghana could do with a little strengthening with a link to the kind of pre-colonial article that you have eben working on. I came to Atlantic Slave Trade as an aspect of British overseas trade, partly because there was some grossly overstated stuff in the article on the Industrial Revolution - based on older historical work that has been overtaken by more modern research. My interest is British economic and technological history, and I do not have the expertise to tackle African History. I have only been working on WP for a couple of years, having first found WP on the Internet when searching the Internet on a particular issue. The view expressed was based on WP:OR, though not necessarily the authors; it cited no references and some of the views expressed wwere actually contrary to what original documents (which it seemed to be derived from) actually indicate! It took some time to get rid of the trash. Peterkingiron 21:20, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your split

Hi Scott. I'm really sorry having to disagree on this, especially since I greatly admire the work you're doing fighting systemic bias and adequately covering pre-colonial African history; but I must admist I object strongly to the split of the Kanem-Bornu article, as I believe on the ground of my sources (I'm a big reader and editor of anything related to Chad, and have bought online many books covering the area and especially its history) that it makes no sense to divide the article, as there is a strong unity in Kanem-Bornu's history.--Aldux 20:00, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

About readability, and having too much content, I'm not certainly I can fully agree: I mean, this article is 13K, which isn't so much in my view. You're obviously right when you speak of an epochal moment in Sayfawa history; while the first the center was Kanem, after it became Bornu, and the borders of the Kanem at its most and Bornu are partly different (My Historical dictionary of Chad puts K-B 1300 as covering north-east Nigeria, very little Niger, western and central Chad, and part of Fezzan, while in 1600 always north-east Nigeria (Borno ecc), more Niger (Damagaram), Kanem and northern Cameroon; as you see, the difference is not enormous, even if the degree of control of the various areas is certainly different). Maybe the split should be made clearer in the article, but I don't feel we need to create a new article, it should be enough to work on the old one. But the main reason I'm so skeptical with your solution is that scholars use this term, Kanem-Bornu, so commonly; maybe we should ask for a third opinion (for example by leaving a note at WP:AFRICA).--Aldux 00:28, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi again. Also you're point on the Roman and Byzantine Empire is quite a good one, as it has quite a surprising number of similarities (transfer of capital, the east as new territorial polarity of the empire), and actually, in old historigraphy, like Gibbon, they were treated all in one. That said, only to be fastidious ;-), actually the different ethnic makeup doesn't really exist: you see, the Kanembu are actually Kanuri, or more exactly a Kanuri subset (see the inobox on Kanuri language), and also the rulers all kept the mai title (except at the very end, that is). But I must agree that Bornu's control even on western Chad was always quite weak, differently from Kanem. That said, your probably right; I don't think the split will be too preposterous, as there are some good reasons behind it. If you fell we should proceed this way (i.e. split), I would just warmly recommend to use inline citations whenever you add content to the article/s in question, as this will make it easier to coordinate our efforts. Ciao,--Aldux 13:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
PS: regarding how to see exactly how long an article is, go to the button history, and if you take Kanem-Bornu you will see as the last edit 20:16, 29 April 2007 4shizzal (Talk | contribs | block) (13,911 bytes). The "13,911 bytes" indicates the length of the article.--Aldux 13:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Now it's my occasion to excuse myself for not awnsering before ;-) Lets discuss your indications one per one:
  • as for the first and the second, I agree
  • as for the third, I'm not so sure: actually I was thinking of moving first Kanem-Bornu Empire over Kanem Empire (so that one of the two articles will conserve the full article history); and then to transform Kanem-Bornu Empire in a disambiguation page, pointing to both empires. Certainly, this will mean correcting a lot of links, but we would have to do it even with your suggestion.
  • as for the fourth, I'm not sure we need a specific section; we can add specific info where needed, through the article. But I'm not sure what you mean exactly heare.
And just another thing: the article/s is/are an almost integral copy of T. Collelo's country study on Chad. Since the work is public domain, as a LOC edition, I took the current text from there, also because the history section on Chad was reliable.--Aldux 00:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Slave trade table

First of all, I apologize for the confusion with the reverts, I didn't realize the IP address was yours. Can you explain the huge differences between Hall's and Lovejoy's numbers?

Second, feel free to use the table wherever you want, it's only a slightly improved version of one on the WP Help page, not really my own work. i will make the table next time I'm on WP if it isn't already done. Malc82 23:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Amanishakheto, Amanishabheto and Amanirenas

hi there. I saw you wrote quite a lot for Amanishakheto. That's nice, I always wanted to do that, but never found the time. However, please note that most researchers regard Amanishakheto and Amanirenas as two different queens and the military events described took place under Amanirenas, while Amanishabheto is mainly known for her wonderful jewellery. Best wishes -- Udimu 08:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi 4shizzal, thanx for replying so quickly. If you just take all the information you wrote on Amanishakheto and copy it to (a new article) on Amanirenas; then everything should be more or less fine. BTW: a nice website on the subject is http://www.homestead.com/wysinger/chronology.html best wishes -- Udimu 14:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On Mbundu and Ndongo

This is Beepsie, who works mainly in Central Africa, but also some in the Diaspora. You mentioned your father's people were Mbundu, and since you mention African Ancestry I'm assuming this is a Y-chromosome reading that had an exact match with someone who is an Mbundu. You maybe saw the PBS Special "African American Lives" which I and my wife served on as consultants and then appeared on screen in the last episode with Skip Gates. We were also briefly on "Finding Ophrah's Roots". We're about to publish a book on the early period, pre 1660, of Mbundu and Kongo regions, Central African, Atlantic Creoles, and the Foundations of America. You might find it useful when it appears in July.

[edit] Your list

Just wanted to let you know, the D`mt period goes from ca. 800 BC to the 5th/4th c. BC, when the proto-Aksumite period starts. The proto-Aksumite period ends ca. 1st c. BC, when the Aksumite period begins. The date of Aksum's shift to the Zagwe dynasty (which you forgot to include in the medieval list, btw, along with the Solomonic dynasty) isn't known yet, but it may actually be the 12th century, since Anbessa Widim, a king remembered by tradition to have been one of the last late Aksumite kings, is now attested to ca. 1125-1150 (we have a colophon in a Bible written by the Patriarch Abba Mika'el in 1150, which notes that Anbessa Widim was king when he was appointed in 1129), so the 937 date you have is much too precise and probably inaccurate. It's based on the assumption that Gudit's reign was the beginning of the Zagwe dynasty and the end of Aksum, which isn't necessarily the case. Anyway, happy editing. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia

[edit] Response

"hi, bruh. thnx for keepin an eye on the Mali Empire page. I think I'm gonna request protection on it. what was the dangerous edit rv, by the way?"

^^Yes, I suggest the same thing and the dangerous edit was some one switching the name "Mali Empire" to "Poop Empire", probably some kid.. - Taharqa

[edit] Signatures

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I've noticed that you've been adding your signature to some of your article contributions. This is a simple mistake to make and by now should have been corrected. For future reference, the need to associate edits with users is taken care of by an article's edit history. Therefore, you should use your signature only when contributing to talkpages, the Village Pump, or other such discussion pages. For a better understanding of what distinguishes articles from these type of pages, please see What is an article?. Again, thanks for contributing, and enjoy your Wikipedia experience! Thank you. Russ (talk) 15:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anna Kingsley

I noticed your comments at Anna Kinglsey. She was quite an impressive woman, if not a figure of idolization due to the whole slaveholding thing. You may be interested to know there's a terrific book on her that came out a few years ago; it was one of the main sources in writing the article, It's by Daniel Schafer; more details are listed at the bottom of the article. Cheers,--Cúchullain t/c 22:54, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hello, about the Mali article

You wrote: "reverted cuz certain ppl got wild hairs up their a$$"

Bruh, what in the world are you talking about, did you even pay attention to what you reverted and do you have a reason? I'm the one who made those edits in which I reverted, I reverted myself! That was petty, the phrase "Population of hunters" wasn't added by me and the commas/grammar entries don't belong there, which is why I reverted myself since in an attempt to be helpful, I only screwed up the grammar. Again, I reverted myself, I removed nothing that was already there, please refrain from unwarranted personal attacks, I can deal with them if my intentions were actually bad or if I did something wrong(I don't trip off flaming). Maybe you owe me an apology, I don't know, you tried to make me look like a fool with that public comment and you were completely wrong, that was petty..Taharqa 05:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Response.. Whew, no wonder, that was so confusing and irritating, that was a real lack of communication and I apologize also for not being more clear. Not that the article is literally perfect, but I've complimented you(I don't know if you've noticed) more than once on your contribution to the article, suggesting that it was one of the best articles on wikipedia, which is the main reason I guess that I was looking for something to edit(to feel important or helpful). Guess I got offended also because I don't know you, but indeed admire your work, so that through me off. In summary I was basically stating that my edits(in that situation) were hasty and baseless, so I reverted myself, since I was wrong for editing what I did(as far as the petty grammar and removing the reference to early Mandinkas being hunters, who by ignorance I assumed were agriculturalists, until I read the full citation).. I guess my humbleness made me come off as sarcastic, but again, I have no reason to disrespect you of all people or any other person contributing to the spread of African history. Feel free to erase these comments now if they litter your page, just glad this small misunderstanding is over, cheers! I'm looking at your Battle of Kitombo page now..Taharqa 16:11, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


^Cheers! Hotep to you too my equal... Looking forward to either collaborating with you or simply reading your contributions in the future. Take care.Taharqa 20:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Concerning Abubakari II:

Response..

Whoa, you're the dude! Your resourcefulness is truly a source of admiration, the book above is extremely rare and hits for no less than $150 on amazon, excellent display of scholarship. I've just bookmarked THE MUQADDIMAH, by ibn Khaldun also, insane. I read your assessment of the sources on the page and will admit that I was a bit confused because at face value it seemed to me that he was referring to Manding Bory or Abu Bakr I, but you made a terrific observation that was noted from the primary source himself, he indeed does say that the Abu Bakr who is referenced was a descendant of Sunjata on the female line. Given the relevant work of D.T. Niane, all indication is that this refers to Abubakari II, follow the sources and see where they lead you! While some of the details of the Malian dynasty line may hold dubious, this doesn't as you've pinned down the primary source in question and he is quoted. I'm impressed. Great job!Taharqa 03:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A few papers on Mali

You may find these interesting.. I've been able to track down a few PDfs dealing with Malian king succession, including Nehemia Levtzion's Thirteenth- and Fourteenth-Century Kings of Mali and Nawal Morcos Bell's The Age of Mansa Musa of Mali: Problems in Succession and Chronology..

Here is the download link to those: http://www.sendspace.com/file/xc5oow

And this is an essay covering the conditions which gave rise to Mali. Nothing you probably need or information that you're already aware of, just thought that it was a good overview and maybe it can be used for later reference (covered from pages 1-9)..

Trade, Technology, and Culture: The Mali Empire in West Africa Source: In the balance: Themes in Global History(Boston: McGraw-Hill, 1998),231-45Taharqa 05:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Coke

No Pepsi. :) I kinda left a brief response, with a question on the Songhai talk page. I really appreciate you working on these subjects. I would, as I'm sure you and Taharqa do too, see these pages about black successful accomplishments from way back when, who have made substantial contributions and civilizations, really blossom. I'm sick and tired of the racist back and forth thing, but with these articles there is no denying African history. Of course, there are those ....um.. (I'll be civil) well not everything was/is about the white man. From one of the sources I left on the page:

"Muhammad Touré was also the first to standardize weights, measures, and currency, so culture throughout the Songhay began to homogenize. .....These programs of conquest, centralization, and standardization were the most ambitious and far-reaching in Africa at the time. It is of note that while the urban centers were dominated by Islam and Islamic culture, the non-urban areas were not Islamic. The vast majority of the Songhay people, around 97%, followed traditional African religions."

- Jeeny Talk 01:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


^This is a great reference Jeeny! Thanx.. I think I'll use it for the Songhay article.. And yes, some of the bias on wiki is overtly obvious but I guess it's better to not point it out sometimes (Why? Don't know.)..Taharqa 18:15, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kush

Hello. Kush is mentioned by both Darius (at Naqš-i Rustam) and Xerxes (daiva inscription). It was probably the northern part of Kush, and it was conquered during the Persian conquests of Egypt.Azerbaijani 21:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Response for Songhai

If you happened to see it, please disregard the last response, I was a little pissed off. It wasn't towards you, but I was on some, I don't wanna edit anymore crap, which I have been thru before.. I hope to be past the nonsense now..


^No problem at all. I tried to provide a bit of more information already in response to the lack of info in the Ghana Empire article and I have a few sources on Songhai that can more than likely be of assistance. I actually prefer your approach (which is commendable) in being primarily concerned with West Africa since it is so under represented, which is a more efficient way or spreading awareness of the facts about African history, rather than constantly being involved in disputes about relatively inane figures and kingdoms/states that are shrouded in known controversy to the point where it literally attracts racist crabs that you have to fight off just to present different cited points of view. Main downside to wikipedia.. I'll dedicate more time to the neglected regions of the continent, starting with Songhai (and beginning either tomorrow or in the next couple of days). The article on the Mali empire should be used as a model imo so while contributing information I'll try and follow that format. Stay safe and keep up the good work you're doing, which only motivates me to do the same. Peace. Taharqa 02:46, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

When you get this, please send me (if you will) your e-mail on my talk page, even if it is a junk e-mail you barely use, I wanted to inform you about something, off-wiki..Taharqa 00:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Have begun the process of improvement. It's late here as of now, so I'll continue tomorrow. As for now I've entered a bit of more info on Askia Muhammad and will continue tomorrow. Concerning something I've read elsewhere, I have a question. Are you aware of the songhai ever referring to surrounding Berbers and arabs as "tribes of the white race", or even if we omit the word race, "of the white people"? Have you ever seen such a reference? Get back. Peace..Taharqa 06:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Haha, no problem. There's of course a lot more work to do. I also found the reference to "white minorities" being distinguished between everyday inhabitants, it just threw me off as Britannica referred to them as "tribes of the white race", and that kind of translation seems inaccurate to me since "race" is a European social construct, not an African one. In any event, the criminal justice in Songhay struck my interest. And thanx for posting those articles, I've never even heard of Kasanze and Kasanje, shame on me.Taharqa 15:50, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ^-^;

I didn't actually do much at all.Silver seren 20:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Page Protection

Actually you can try, but I believe it is only for cases of vandalism or edit warring, due to the wikipedia, open editing format. But on the other hand, people are in fact vandalizing the page. I'm sorry about that too, because I saw it in the history. Somebody blanked out almost the entire page and I thought that Antandrus had restored everything back, but no, he actually only reverted to Yellowfiver's last revision, who I see was the one that moved the section on Imperial Mali, which wasn't a thought-out edit imo, but it was in good faith I guess. However, IP: 70.23.251.9 like I've stated, blanked the entire page (See here: [1]), it just didn't draw any alarms with me because he was reverted literally within the same minute, so I didn't think to check Yellowfiver's careless edits since I though that it was all taken care of.

Anyways, you may be able to use that as a grounds for Semi-protection, which only restricts brand new users from editing. You can request Full Protection also, but I'm not sure what they'd say.

You do it by going to the board, make sure your entry is placed above the last one seen and basically copy n paste this tag:

Mali Empire (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

After that, directly under it, you indicate what kind of protection you seek.

Full Protection, Semi-Protection (move protection doesn't apply here)

You then give a brief explanation as to why, and then sign your name. Full example:


Mali Empire (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs)

Semi-Protection: Ip vandalism, important page, would like to protect from vandals.Taharqa 17:00, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

^And that's it.. In the case of Full Protection, you can take your chances and claim edit warring, but I think you'd be denied. I wish there was a way to protect wiki pages that are obviously GA and don't need any more work, without any strings attached, but I haven't found that to be so just yet. Of course you go here ([2]) to file for protection. Good luck..Taharqa 17:00, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Nice.. Maybe a bit longer explanation than the others, but you needed to elaborate. Hopefully they'll go through with protecting it, if I were them, based on your presentation and the actual disruption that indeed goes on there, I would. I couldn't have presented my case any differently. We'll see what happens.Taharqa 18:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:MandenInfobox

A template you created, Template:MandenInfobox, has been marked for deletion as a deprecated and orphaned template. If, after 14 days, there has been no objection, the template will be deleted. If you wish to object to its deletion, please list your objection here and feel free to remove the {{deprecated}} tag from the template. If you feel the deletion is appropriate, no further action is necessary. Thanks for your attention. --MZMcBride 02:35, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:MandenInfobox is not being used on any article or page as evidenced here. Mali Empire uses Template:Infobox Former Country. Is there still an objection? Cheers. --MZMcBride 21:51, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Problems for Beatriz Kimpa Vita

Someone is vandalizing the entry on Dona Beatriz Kimpa Vita, and putting in a short news item about a team called Malau Connection. I have tried to revert to the last entry that had the actual article but have not been able to do this or figure out how to do it. If you know how to do this, and it's probably only a few magic keystrokes, could you do it? Also, if there's a way to report it, that would help.

I'm very appreciative of your editing of the Kingdom of Kongo article, and attempting to get it out of the B category. I don't agree with a few of the content issues you've raised, and when I get the chance I'll edit them (especially the kanda one, which is complicated and maybe we can make it accessible) Beepsie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beepsie (talk • contribs) 15:29, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

^I'll start trying to watch these pages more often also. Btw, Scott, I hope that you don't mind my entry about the Kora on the page dealing with Kaabu. You can revert it if it seems out of place, I am just becoming fascinated with that instrument though and came across some reading which placed its birthplace in Kaabu. I made an entire section, but maybe it only deserves brief notice; I'm not exactly sure, though I have some idea, how important it was to the Mandinka. Oh yea, and sorry about that protection thing not working out, I see that they felt it wasn't enough activity going on at the timeTaharqa 18:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Fasho.. And which articles? The ones that were the object of dispute? One was unprotected, merged, and then immediately protected again since people don't know how to act. A couple of others I've been involved with recently also were protected, so I'm left mainly to watch over the pages on traditional history. I'm also interested in creating an article or two, maybe you can explain to me how (I know it's easy)? By e-mail or message, doesn't matter. Thanx..Taharqa 18:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Good lookin out bruh!Taharqa 21:08, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Your offer

Thank you so much!! I am so frustrated at times because I cannot access the complete JSTOR articles. Right now, I can't remember the ones that I needed, but if I come across them again, is your offer still available? I really appreciate this offer. It is very much appreciated. And for taking care of my T. - Jeeny Talk 22:10, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I sent you an email the other day, wonder if you got it? Also I have another article I'd like,Mortality and Voyage Length in the Middle Passage: New Evidence from the Nineteenth Century. Let me know if you didn't get an email from me, I think I made the subject line clear. I just don't want to give out my email address online. But, I do have email this user activated on my page. - Jeeny Talk 19:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kanda Entry

Just a heads up to let you know that I made a lot of changes to the "kanda" entry to make it match better my understanding of the word, its meaning and the way it relates to Kongo history. I also made some changes in some of the personality entries and the names of the kandas themselves along the same lines.

Beepsie —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beepsie (talk • contribs) 16:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Importance of DRC kingdoms

I'd like to flag an inconsistency between your edit here and another recent edit. I have no sources on the subject, but can't help noticing that in general people freely introduce information about the supposed provenance of slaves without providing any source citations.  --Lambiam 18:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. It clears up my understanding, but does not remove the inconsistency. Should the mention of [[Democratic Republic of the Congo|Congo]] then perhaps just be taken out from Afro-Latin American, leaving the territory of Angola as the important Central-African source?  --Lambiam 20:01, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eye cataract surgery in medieval Djenne?

How credible would you say this assertion is, is it verifiable, and should I feel confident in incorporating the information into the article (on Djenne)? It is cited here (Link) and also claimed in Ivan Van Sertima's book, "Afrikans in Science". Let me know if you have heard anything about this. Peace..Taharqa 20:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes! That was more than helpful. I've noticed that the Djenne article also needs to be brought up to par, at least approaching the level of quality of the Timbuktu article. I was browsing and read a few excerpts from Sertima, googled it, and found more information about it, or better yet saw it mentioned in that link I showed you. As soon as I figure out how to incorporate it contextually, I will. Maybe another section, like an "accomplishments, or "legacy" section is in order. So I'd have to research a few more articles/papers and look up a couple of more things to include in that list of accomplishments as it concerns Djenne's legacy. Thanx again brotha man, I can always depend on you.Taharqa 21:46, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Empires in Africa

Brodie, you offended me with that. The least that that I've ever been worried about is you "bugging me"; please inform me whenever you take on a project, so I can help either contribute to it, or revert the vandals/pov creeps. One thing you actually did forget was the Kushite Empire of Egypt's 25th dynasty, which lasted just over 100 years. It covered the same dominion and ruled over basically the same subjects as Egypt's New Kingdom. I included it into the article..Taharqa 23:52, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

No problem, I'll keep my eyes on the Oyo empire page.. It's a really good article too..Taharqa 21:08, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Been gone.. just got back.. No doubt, I'll have more free time and am putting the Wolof Empire on my watchlist. Good looking out for the heads up brodie..Taharqa 03:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I tried to fix the citations on the nri article, but messed up somewhere along to way and couldn't find what mistake I made. Since it takes so long to do, I just reverted myself, but I removed that useless clean up tag. Most people that put them up know very well how to organize citations, yet they're too lazy it seems and rather litter the article with distracting tags! I hate that. In any event, I'll fix it later when I get back online. Keep up the solid work. I've been semi-busy but will be more active soon.Taharqa (talk) 22:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

"so what did you think of the article?"

It goes without saying that I learn something new with each article that you contribute to and/or create. I have a lot of work to do concerning pre-colonial west Africa. Probably years worth to catch up with what I already know about other regions of Africa. Which is a shame for obvious reasons. So you're Igbo and Mande? That's crazy. Two renowned groups through out west Africa whose contrast encompassed all that defined west Africa from wealth, literacy, and art. As a matter of fact, I've saved up enough to throw away, I might as well hit up Africanancestry.com and get my own results! I think I'll do that. I'll let you know what happens too. Hopefully I don't get road blocked through the paternal side since I already know that my great grandmother was Native American (black foot/cherokee). In any case, I'll holla at you in a bit brodie. Bout to step out for a sec.. Get back whenever you want. Peace.Taharqa (talk) 22:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


No problem at all. It's obviously a conscious or unconscious effort there to separate Nubia from geographic North Africa, for obvious reasons, which is why there was no information about Sudan, including their early connections with ancient Egypt. It is also disheartening that the section of North Africa is ten times longer than West, Central, and south, while East has more than West, as if it were some kind of hierarchy, from most civilized to least. The article is a mess and I have it on watch so that I may contribute to its clean up. Thank you as well for catching that and giving it a decent intro. The previous one was ridiculous! It gets me mad sometimes because it is obviously a matter of people being too lazy to do the research or just assuming off top that there is nothing to research anyways. Btw, your proposed outline looks great. Let me know if you're sticking to that, and I can help out where I can. As alluded to, we should also look into giving equal weight to each region, and not allow North Africa come off like some super-civilized founder of culture, at the expense of other regions' history.Taharqa (talk) 20:19, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] random comment

what's up man? i just saw you on taharqa's page and thought i'd make a comment on your user page. I wanted to say that maybe you should move Mali to ancient civilizations as well on your nice little list there, because of the discovery of Djenné-Jeno, an ancient Malian city discovered only in the last couple decades, which proves that civilzation emerged in West Africa before the gold trade with the Arabs. Pretty big deal if you ask me. Peace, --Urthogie 14:52, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the JSTOR offer, I might hit you up on that sometime. Peace, --Urthogie 16:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:MILHIST

Good to hear from you 4shizzal. Sounds like you've already made a good start on several African military subjects. You might be interested to go through to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/African military history task force, join if you're interested, and work on any of the requested articles there that you want to. Happy editing... Buckshot06 21:39, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, how did I not notice an Africa editor for two years?! Let me offer a belated hello. You might also be interested in watching the currently-slow Wikipedia:Africa-related regional notice board, which occasionally has interesting items posted. - BanyanTree 23:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the project coordinators, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! TomStar81 (Talk) 00:00, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome!

Hi, and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the project coordinators, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Kirill 01:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dodds and others

Thanks for the kind words! You do great work, and I'm happy to fill in whatever gaps I can. Won't be long before the woefully under-worked West African history is filled out.

I'm taking a few days off, but when I do, I just got JSTOR access. If you don't, and come across anything you need a pdf of, lemme know.

Tommy M, NYC (aka) T L Miles 13:44, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] October 2007

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that recently you carried out a copy and paste page move from Ashanti Empire. Please do not move articles by copying and pasting them because it splits the article's history, which is needed for attribution and is helpful in many other ways. In most cases, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. If there is an article that you cannot move yourself by this process, follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Also, if there are any other articles that you copied and pasted, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. Gscshoyru 15:31, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ashanti Empire mixup

Hello. first i'd like to say sorry for the mess with the Ashanti Empire article. Let me explain. I went to the old Empire of Ashanti page and tried to change the title (move it) to Ashanti Empire. When I tried, I got a message saying it could not be done since there was a page already existing by that name. that page was a redirect to the empire of ashanti so I just copied the contents from the empire of ashanti page into the existing ashanti empire page and made the former a redirect to the latter. i know that's confusing as hell and i probably just goofed things up. sorry about that. if there's a way i can fix this let me know. i just felt the article should be titled Ashanti Empire to keep its naming style consistent with the other other empire pages (Roman Empire, Mali Empire, etc). hollaScott Free 15:39, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem -- the page has been marked for "delete and merge" so the admins'll get around to moving it properly. Where you have a move request that you can't do, for whatever reason, then WP:RM is the place to go, ok? You just didn't know policy about page moves -- no problem. The notice is just that -- a friendly notice, so there's nothing at all to worry about. Happy editing! Gscshoyru 15:44, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Y Done – no worries. — madman bum and angel 20:50, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XIX (September 2007)

The September 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 08:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Slave Trade Stats

Having seen your message to 24.128.77.171, I'd like to draw your attention to the thread Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#Ok If haitians are mostly descended from West Africans, Why did half of the slave population descended from the congo's?.  --Lambiam 05:10, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Franco-Dahomean Wars

It is no problems; I have found that I am a much more talented editor than writer. I might even do some addition later on as one of my favourite books, Douglas Porchs “The French Foreign Legion”, devout a chapter to the war. Like the “Amazons of Black Sparta” it is a study of a group of warriors, albeit a rather different group. My speciality is French military history and, by being a native, Swedish. So if you need any help in those areas just leave a message. Carl Logan 19:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] African American history

Thanks for the updates. Have you been to WP:AFRO? futurebird 22:46, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad that you joined, if you see anything you need help with post it at the talk page. Welcome! futurebird 20:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rulers of the Hausa state of Kano

I've been trying to work out how this page and Emir of Kano can coexist, but I think it would be easier if we just covered the Hausa kings on Emir of Kano. Would you mind if I merged the two? Picaroon (t) 19:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


That's a good idea. I'll move Rulers of the Hausa state of Kano to List of rulers of Kano, restore the Fulani emirs to the list (under a different heading), and will retain Emir of Kano as a page describing the occupation. Thanks for the idea! Picaroon (t) 20:55, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kongo Kings

Hey 4shizzal. The picture is of a king of kongo, the website said it was of Alfonso. Regardless, there are at least 10 images, drawn in Portugal, where they depict the Kongo royal court this way. Initially, the Portuguese saw Kongo as their equal and this was shown in the artwork. When they started importing slaves the opinions changed. Anyways, there's a link on the image and I'm sure you can find better closer up pictures from the same time period. Need any help just ask.--Yellowfiver 00:35, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crispus Attucks image

The deletion warning is for the Crispus Attucks image (Image:Crispus Attucks.jpg) at Military_history_of_African_Americans#Civil_War, not the page itself. The image will have to be deleted, unless we can verify that it's public domain or a valid fair use rationale is given for each page where the image is used. Let me know if you have any other questions. Superm401 - Talk 19:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

This has been resolved. See Image:Crispus Attucks.jpg The image is definitely public domain. Superm401 - Talk 19:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XX (October 2007)

The October 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 12:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Martial Arts

  • Hello, I left a response to your comment on the discussion page of List of Martial Arts, that outlines my logic. Please tell me what you think! Atari400 02:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello again! I am just letting you know that I responded to your comment on Talk:List_of_martial_arts. Atari400 03:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hi Scott Free

Thank you for your input. Peterkingiron has already answer about my question. You can add your comment to the talk:Atlantic Slave Trade if you want. Sonic99 03:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Hello Scott, I'm sorry, but I think perhaps you have mistaken placing a tag, for a kind of criticism. Tags such as that do not mean the sources are incorrect, do not criticize your writing, spelling, grammar, knowledge, or anything else, at all, but simply have a note that there may be alternate ways of footnote that would be better. I placed a note on the article's talk page explaining why: There are multiple books that are cited many, many times, and there are easier ways of doing this, rather than having to specify author, title, publisher, year, etc., every time. I actually thought the article was excellent, compared to the normal new articles that I run across. I admit that I'm a bit taken aback by your reaction to a simple tag that suggests a clearer way of formatting would assist the reader. I would be willing to assist you if you would like, but at the moment, I do not have the time to do so, so I simply left the tag to allow other editors to see, and possibly help. I do not consider tags as something negative, as I'm sure you know, they are a tool used by editors that categorize pages into areas, so those who are specialists in one area or the other, can find pages in need of some attention. They are they any criticism of the editors of the article. I hope that you can understand this, and I apologize if you considered it an "insult" of any kind, as it most definitely is not meant that way. Sincerely, Ariel♥Gold 05:31, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your quick reply, and know that you're not at all "taking up my time", I'm more than happy to talk about ways to improve Wikipedia, after all, I am a Wikifairy! Honestly, I'd be happy to help, but I sort of felt I would be stepping out of line, to completely change the footnotes, after you had obviously worked so hard. My solution was to use the tag as a gentle suggestion, with a talk page note, that perhaps other ways of doing it would be easier on a reader (I read the article, and just noticed many refs I would refer to were the same book, just a different page number). There is no doubt that the article is sourced extremely well, (I too, am a big proponent of sourcing nearly everything! Want to see an example? Check out STS-120, 116 refs! lol), but I really didn't think it appropriate for me to go radically changing the footnotes, without a discussion. Again, I apologize, and I do hope you forgive me, as I honestly had good intentions. Ariel♥Gold 05:49, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Actually, when the mission started, there were maybe 30 refs, total, maybe less. The majority of those were added daily, I'd add usually 4-5 per day, over the course of two weeks. Of course, the press widely covers the missions so it isn't at all difficult, quite different than the topics you cover! And yep, it is 1am here, but I don't sleep nights, so it is mid-day for me, ~*Giggle*~ Ariel♥Gold 06:06, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey Scott! Take a look at the article now. I had to do a bit of learning to figure out this particular reference style that I'm not familiar with, but I put a note on the talk page. What I did, was create a "Sources" header, and put the book list alphabetically there, and the references are last name of author, and page number. What do you think? Ariel♥Gold 00:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture!

That is an awesome picture! But you'll want to put the source URL on the image page, so it can be verified that it is in the public domain. Do you remember what site you found it on? That is a great find, btw! Ariel♥Gold 02:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] An article which you started, or significantly expanded, Kingdom of Nri, was selected for DYK!

Updated DYK query On November 20, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Kingdom of Nri, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Nishkid64 (talk) 22:26, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This is my present to you, Scott. I nominated the article to be featured on the Main Page, and did not want to tell you in case it was not chosen. But it was, and so I will say, congratulations, well done! You deserve this. Ariel♥Gold 05:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Congrats! :) - Jeeny (talk) 07:26, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Whoa.. Cheers! This is a distinct honor and it is more than apparent that your work is paying off and is being noticed. I'm proud to be affiliated with you.Taharqa (talk) 02:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Thanksgiving!

Or depending on the point of view, happy massacre day! Whatever the case, today's a day for reflection and thanks, even if what the idea was initially based on is fraudulent and non-applicable to those indigenous to our fine country and those ancestors who survived the middle passage. We may above all else, simply give thanks that we're still here, living, breathing, sober and free enough to even dispute such an idea (as Thanksgiving). Have fun and eat to your belly's desire! Peace...Taharqa (talk) 21:59, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, what T said. Happy Thanksgiving. Do not eat too much, you need to watch your heart! :) No double-bypasses allowed! :) - Jeeny (talk) 02:19, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A book you might find useful

Trade and Politics in the Niger Delta, 1830-1885: An Introduction to the Economic and Political History of Nigeria by Kenneth Onwuka Dike (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1956). It has some background sources on what was the Igbo kingdom of Nri and the kingdom's imperial activities (e.g., in politics, religion, and commerce, including slave trade) in the now Nigeria and West Africa regions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ogunabibiman (talk • contribs) 05:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXI (November 2007)

The November 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot 23:59, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Problems in Kongo

Just a heads up. I edited the Kongo article a lot on 15 December, reorganized its presentation to make it more coherent, added a good number of references and a large section on the 18th and 19th century. All this was reverted by an unnamed user who then added comments on neighboring countries picking on Congo to the "Early History" section (ie Bantu migrations).

However, I did all this without signing on since I had temporarily forgotten my password. Anyway, I suppose it would be appropriate to revert the changes. I'm not fully up to date on how to report vandalism (although I'm not sure it's vandalism in this case) or even to revert. But I know that you have much love for this site and can help on these kinds of things.Beepsie (talk) 13:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Scott, just a heads up to let you know that I reverted the changes that wiped out my work of 15 December.Beepsie (talk) 20:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Zulu Empire

A tag has been placed on Zulu Empire requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Topspinslams (talk) 00:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey brotha man?

I've been CRAZY busy these past few weeks but it is indeed refreshing to see that you haven't veered off course one bit. Was out of state for like a week and a half and am now back trying to get my school situation together, in addition to shopping and dealing with some family issues, but I think I'll be up to the task of again soon (as far as contributing here). Good looks on the Zulu Empire article, it looks sweet. It's crazy how that guy immediately jumped on your article, nominating it for speedy deletion when you weren't even done working on it. That was really weird, but hey, you always handle yourself with class. Just wanted to give a shot out and see if you were still alive, and thankfully you are. lol.. I'll get back at you soon enough.. Peace.Taharqa (talk) 23:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, merry Christmas..

Very valuable information my friend. Thanx. I'm realizing that googlebooks is turning out to be an extremely convenient source. Typing in certain Key Words will get you an abundance of information, but of course you need to know what you're looking for. If I remember correctly (I may be senile though), I don't believe that you had Songhay listed in your "largest Empire article". Haven't checked your contribs yet, but maybe it can be added now. It goes with out saying that this information will be included in the main article and put in context. Still some work to do, especially after the holidays. Stay sharp.. Taharqa (talk) 04:51, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey scott.. Been a while but haven't forgot about the good work you guys are doing. I so apologize, but I've been having personal issues. Just moved to a different home and the transitioning was horrible. I haven't had steady access to a computer in weeks, I've only been able to use it at the library. Hopefully I can get out of the situation I'm in so I can get back to work, since this affects school also. Please don't give up on the articles (which you never have anyways), you are definitely appreciated. Hopefully I can get more stable and have more freedom soon. Stay safe.. Sad to see that Jeeny is no longer with us.Taharqa (talk) 16:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXII (December 2007)

The December 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 21:48, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Possible edit warring on project article

There seems to be some issues going on over on the article : Military history of African Americans, in particularly in the section Military history of African Americans#Confederate States Army. Could you take a look at the article's edit history as well as the discussion, Talk:Military history of African Americans, and possibly give some input? Thanks. Sf46 (talk) 00:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] ManiKongo article

I'm interested in your editing of the article on Manikongo of 7 July (a while back). I see you deleted the original language that described the textual positioning of the term in early correspondence and replaced it with a somewhat simpler version. I wonder if you could let me know what you were aiming at in that revision? Also, I changed the existing text a bit to eliminate what I think are errors in the way it read.Beepsie (talk) 18:53, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Cloverfield

No offence was intended mate, but there are plenty of forums online to be asking that kind of question. The purpose of the article's talk page is to discuss improvements to the article. If you intended using any of the answers you received to improve the article, then I apologise, but your questions appeared no different to the dozens of others which have appeared on the page since the film came out, and which have had nothing to do with adding meaningful content to the article. Considering that, my actions were perfectly within the bounds of reason. All the best, Steve T • C 20:45, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 14! TomStar81 (Talk) 01:11, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)

The January 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)

The February 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:49, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Wow- a big project

Your History of Africa Project is a monster from the looks of it. A number of textbooks approach the subject in a survey fashion like Shillington's Historyof Africa. Might be worth a look. Here is his Table of Contents for what its worth. Good luck. If it wasnt so big a topic I would pitch in and help but it is a monster. I might jump in as it takes more shape. Good work!

Early Prehistory of Africa * Later Prehistory * The Impact of Iron in Northeast and West Africa * The Early Iron Age and Bantu Migrations * North and Northeastern Africa to 1000 AD * Trans-Saharan Trade and the Kingdom of Ancient Ghana * Islam and the Sudanic States of West Africa * Eastern Africa to the 16th Century * Trading States of the East African Coast to the 16th Century * Later Iron Age States and Societies of Central and Southern Africa to 1600 AD * North and Northeastern Africa to the 18th Century * The Atlantic Slave Trade, 16th-18th Century * West African States and Societies to the 18th Century * Central and Eastern Africa to the 18th Century * Southern Africa to the 18th Century * West Africa in the 19th Century and the Ending of the Slave Trade * Central and East Africa in the 19th Century * Pre-Industrial Southern Africa in the 19th Century * North and Northeast Africa in the 19th Century * Prelude to Empire in Tropical Africa * The European "Scramble," Colonial Conquest and African Resistance in East, North-Central and West Africa * Industrialization, Colonial Conquest and African Resistance in South-Central and Southern Africa * Consolidation of Empire * Africa between the Wars * The Second World War and Africa * The Winning of Independence (1) * The Winning of Independence (2) * Africa since Independence (1) * Africa since Independence (2) Gnarlesbarklay (talk) 07:00, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXV (March 2008)

The March 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVI (April 2008)

The April 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are blacks the most intelligent?

This article also provides biological evidence highlighting black superiority in sports:

http://www.africaresource.com/content/view/528/236/

http://www.africaresource.com/content/view/528/236/

--70.68.179.142 (talk) 23:21, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanx

Thank you for starting the Kingdom of Nri article. The problem is that some of the sources are from Westerners who didn't completely understand and often misinterpret the information. I have done major editing in Nri-Igbo article because of this too. As a son of Nri, I highly suggest you read "Nri warriors of peace" by Chikodi Anunobi and An Igbo Civilization: Nri Kingdom & Hegemony by M. Angulu Onwuejeogwu. I have done massive work in the past in wikipedia for the past 3 years mainly in subject of the Aro people and other Igbos, a subgroup of the Igbo and founders of the Aro Confederacy (another main pre colonial Igbo power) by creating articles and doing editing. I really learned about Nri in 2004 and begin writing on Nri in 2006.

To learn more about Nri people go to:


Look at the comparison of the Igbo Nsude pyramids to the Step Pyramid of Saqqara in KEMET:


Look at the pictures and videos here:

Aro articles by myself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Aros —Preceding unsigned comment added by LIL T (talk • contribs) 04:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Igbo kwenu e zine...a Pan African online magazine

[edit] No problem

I have seen your magnificent work on the Ashanti empire, Oyo, Mali empire, and etc...I must say I am very impressed but not surprised...it is mostly the diasporan Africans that has revived Afrocentricity and Pan Africanism...especially those of Igbo descent...whenever you are ready, you should review these links:


  • this includes Nnamdi Azikwe, Bishop Turner, Edward Blyden, Ebo landing in North Carolina, Olaudah Equiano, Igbo Haiti, Igbo Jamaica, Igbo Virginia, Igbo Belize, Biafra and etc...killing of Thomas Jefferson's father in Montpelier, Igbo uprisings in Jamaica, and more...
  • it is said that 60% of African Americans have at least one Igbo ancestor...

anyway, the problem is that these Westerners viewed Nri culture as uncivilized and evil...they abolished alot of the laws that had to do with peace, justice, and fairness...and since Western culture is mainly centered on death, destruction, and domination they disfavored the Kingdom of Nri while favoring the Benin empire, Igala, and etc which were imperialistic powers...some Afrocentrists still seem to have this mentality...the Westerners were not used to a civilization built on peace and fairness...in fact, Igbo history and culture is still very much colonized...there is a growing efforts among us students of Igbo studies to decolonize it...while we can agree that the authenticity of the Westerners is not evidently 100%, it is close to accurate...the Igbo view of Nri will be more accurate but not 100% because Nri wasn't perfect...however our Nri ancestors taught us that there is three sides of the story...his side, her side, and the truth...let us not rely solely on one side (especially the Western side) to tell us our own history...but we will use both the Western and Igbo sides of the story on Nri to develop a more complete truth... --LIL T (talk) 04:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] however...and also..

Westerners interested in Igbo people like G.I. Jones (took pictures of the Nsude pyramids) Thurston Shaw (helped discovery more Igbo Ukwu bronze castings after Isaiah Anozie), and etc were not bad...I was talking about most Westerners who had racist views against Igbos...

I apologize for the sins of my paternal side (Aro Confederacy) in their role in the slave trade...at least your paternal and my maternal people (Kingdom of Nri) campaigned against the slave trade...as a Nri warrior of peace, I hope you know your four duties...

  • "It is their first duty to accept anybody who walks into the Nri community seeking to have a new life. It does not matter if their former communities rejected them or if they willingly left their communities as long as those immigrants respect Nri laws. He said that the second duty Nri people owe to their environment is to actively spread the message of peace, tolerance, fair play, and non-violence as Agbala (God -- The Perfect Spirit) and Aja-Ana (Earth Goddess, Mother Earth) had shown them. He reminded them that the third duty of the Nri community to their environment is to prescribe and interpret moral laws according to Aja-Ana (the Earth Goddess) and to cleanse whoever had offended Aja-Ana..the fourth duty Nri owe to the earth is to continue to explore what it means to be a perfect human being and, therefore, a perfect society and then make those discoveries a reality in the world."
  • The slave trade brought us Nri warriors of peace allover the world to fulfill our missions and duties...we just have to remember ourselves...

and here is another source of the list of Eze Nris...however, some of the lengths they reigned are questionable...

--LIL T (talk) 05:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)

The May 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 6/11 DYK

Updated DYK query On 11 June 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Military history of the Mali Empire, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford Pray 11:07, 11 June 2008 (UTC)