Talk:420 (cannabis culture)/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Movie, High and Mighty

I removed the reference to the movie The High and the Mighty for several reasons: first the movie makes no drug references at all. the 420 flight number is merely a conicidence and the date of the film 1954 FAR predates even the earliest reference to the source of 420. That judt doesn't seem to fly. If anyone has documentation to show I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.--Lepeu1999 20:22, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

XM Radio

The XM channel "the boneyard" mentioned on the site has recently been changed back to "Liquid Metal" or "XMLM" just in case someone else didnt catch it.

Bob Marley

Isn't 4:20 celebrated because of the death of Bob Marley, a legendary cannabis smoker? Xephyrwing 00:55, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

  • No, look at his article: Bob Marley. He didn't die on April 20th. Jdcooper 12:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

But Bob Marley's fourth son Stephen was born on April 20. fruitsalad 27 May 2006

Own article

While the article was crap, it is certainly true that 420 is connected to the marihuana crowd. A serious article about this would be interesting. AxelBoldt

but should it be on a apge of its own or a part of the article on marijuana in general? -- Tarquin
This as it is is not an article. I think it belongs with the marijuana article, and maybe mentioned on April 20's page. --KQ
Part of the marijuana page might work, April 20 I disagree with though... it celebrates both the time and date.
Way to spell pot. Although on the keyboard the J and H are next to each other and may sound similar, they have one big difference. They are not the same letter.

"Hardcore smokers..."

Hardcore smokers smoke-out at 4:20 AM, claiming that 4:20 PM is actually 16:20 (military time). Really, really hardcore smokers smoke-out at both 0420 hours and 1620 hours.

Marijuana is not a drug and 4:20 is the time to smoke. I think- I know that everyone would be so much more happier if they would just SHUT THE FUCK UP AND SMOKE A BLUNT GOd DAMMIT!

Well, it is kind of amusing, but not really either true or helpful. I would suggest that if you really really want to keep it you try to attribute it to someone as a quote. I think that's the only way that it would make any sense. Mark Richards 20:58, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I re-added Hardcore smokers smoke-out at 4:20 AM, claiming that 4:20 PM is actually 16:20 (military time). I posted that sentence long ago, and it is true. The other part (Really, really hardcore smokers smoke-out at both 0420 hours and 1620 hours.) is a joke someone else added. I am not re-adding the joke part. Kingturtle 21:36, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I agree, it is funny, but is there really any basis to this? I am very sure that there are some 'hardcore smokers' who smoke out at 4.20 am, but do you think they are more likely to smoke out at 4.20 am than 2.am? Or 16.20 for that matter. And what about hardcore smokers who are in the military? Enquiring minds want to know.... Also - can we attribute the claim to anyone more specific than 'hardcore smokers'? Mark Richards 01:04, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Yes, there is a basis to this. I happen to live in a 4:20-obssessed county. Kingturtle 20:30, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Really really really hardcore smokers smoke every hour on the :20 since it is always 4:20 somewhere in the world.
Although your comment is cute, it is not practiced. Kingturtle 20:30, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)


I changed "(military time)" to "(24 hour time)". (yes, i'm pedantic.)

I dare say that if I'm awake after 2 am I and intend on staying up for a while I make it a point to hold out on smoking until 4:20 am. I know many people that do it also. gwalters 15:51 22 April 2006 (CST)


Drug Culture?

Personally, I disagree with this page having the term "drug culture" in parenthases. It should probably be noted somewhere on the page (and on the marijuana page as well) that marijuana isn't a drug.

Most specifically, marijuana (aka "hemp") is a plant that has many uses. It just so happens that this plant contains a natural biochemical called THC which is often identified as a "drug" (as though it were a pharmacudical substance) by certain oppressive and anti-individualist cultures.

I'm not just ranting because I'm pro-marijuana, this is a technical issue that should bother anyone with half a brain. Likewise, tobacco isn't a drug, it's merely a plant that happens to contain the natural "drug" known as nicotine.

Also, unless someone can prove unequivocally that people who smoke marijuana are involved in the use of actual drugs (heroine, cocaine, ecstasy, crystal methamphetamine, etc.) then it seems erroneous to classify something having to do with marijuana as a part of "drug culture". Note that until the early 1900's, marijuana wasn't considered a drug, nor is it considered as such by some modern cultures. This is a recent invention of fascist governments that wish to deny the rights of certain minority groups, and when viewed in terms of world history, the position that marijuana is a "drug" is a minority view (mainly because of how recent it is; the vast majority of people throughout history held no such position).

Anyway, th

Appreciate your points, and agree that careful usage of the term 'drug' may not include the plant itself, but the term 'drug cutlure' is used to refer to people who smoke the plant, and ingest the drug for recreational purposes, whether legal or not. Wikipedia does not take a view on whether any particular item should be classified a certain way, it simply notes that it usually is. Some kind of caveat may be appropriate. Mark Richards 22:18, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Whether marijuana is a drug or not, 420 is still considered part of drug culture. But... we can always move it if there's a better name. I can't think of one though. --Headcase 08:01, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Marijuana has never been a drug, and never will be a drug

^ | |Your mom is drug!!!! All your mom belong to 420!!!!

Smoking Marijuana is most definatly using a drug. The cannaboids and THC react with the CB1 and CB2 receptors in the brain. Marijuana itself may be just a plant like an apple, but an apple does not react with receptors in your brain, and interact with the biochemical pathways. THC however, interacts with the CB1 and CB2 receptors, inhibiting adenylate cyclase and thereby inhibiting production of the second messenger molecule cyclic AMP. 128.113.195.139 00:46, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

When somebody speaks of 420 they are talking about using Marijuana as a drug. In this context Marijuana is most certainly a drug. Don't deny it.

Marijuana seems to fit many of the definitions for the word drug in wiktionary. Do people that claim it's not a drug have issue with the definitons there? Mathiastck 17:47, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Albert Hofmann reference

I just became curious whether the Albert Hofmann bit was actually correct. It is, according to his book where a facsimile of his lab journal from April 19, 1943 reads:

19. IV./16.20: 0,5 cc. von 1/2-promilliger wässeriger Tartrat-Lösg. v. Diäthylamid peroral
= 0,25 mg Tartrat. Mit ca. 10 cc. W. verdünnt geschmacklos einzunehmen.

Glad that Wikipedia proved reliable regarding this important fact ;) regards, High on a tree 03:04, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Mesopotamia

In 420 BC, the Mesopatamians fed their cattle cannabis as an alternative to wheat. - source? Zoe 05:41, August 16, 2005 (UTC)

Even with a confirmed source, this note seems quite ridiculous owing to the apparent specificity of the date. Did the Mesopatamians feed cows cannabis the year after or the year before? (or was it just a short lived experiment?)Guliolopez 15:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I was going to blow up over his one too. "Certainly they did it, as a reference to drug culture. And what is more, in 419 they stopped doing it." I think it should be taken out on account that it has nothing to do with encyclopedic aims of wikipedia. Divad 20:02, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Never mind the fact that in 420BC they didn't use the dating 420BC. BC/AD is a bit more recent then that.--Lepeu1999 20:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Afternoon Tea?

Afternoon tea could be taken at 4.20pm? Well it could - and at 4pm etc. Secretlondon 23:18, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

4:20, stopped clocks and secret signals

While travelling in Thailand some years ago, and staying with a "child of the sixties" who kept a private guest house for more "serious travellers", I commented on the fact that all the clocks in the longhouse were permanently stopped at 4:20. It was pointed out to me that (during more draconian times) a clocked stopped at 4:20 was a furtive signal to like minded visitors (and hopefully not to any "visiting" authority) that you were in safe company for smoking. Given that this retains some validity today, I am surprised not to see a mention of the "secret signal" practice in this article. Had I a more solid source than word of mouth from an aging stoner, I would add this note to the article proper myself. (Not that one more flaky reference would even be noticed in this entry) Guliolopez 15:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Yearbook experience

For a time during my senior year in high school, I worked for the yearbook staff. One submitted senior quote was:

Print exactly as shown:
4 years
2 many memories
-----------------
0 regrets

After we realized what he was up to, we changed it to "Four years, too many memories, zero regrets". And that's my 420 story. -Branddobbe 04:08, 2 October 2005 (UTC) Bart Simpsons birthday is April 20 Aka 4:20

date contradiction

The article claims that:

"In the 1936 anti-pot classic "Reefer Madness", there is a brief subliminal flash showing 4:20 with a marijuana leaf in the background."

This seems to contradict some of the origin theories earlier in the article, which suggests dates after 1936 for the invention of the phrase (1970s, 1939, 1955, 1943). These cannot both be true. Can anyone confirm that there actually is a "brief subliminal flash" in Reefer Madness? Neilc 09:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, we could check - it's a free download. Reefer Madness. Trollderella 19:49, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
Actually, the 420 flash was only added in the colourized version which was released within the last 5 or so years. Cryo (Tox)

Sourcing of info

Many elements of this page were lifted verbatim, without attribution, from Phish.net. That source is listed at the bottom as an external source, but that doesn't justify or permit the wholesale taking of many many copyrighted sentences. Airumel 21:44, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

4:20 or 4/20?

I've alwaays heard 420 as being the day pot smokers smoke more pot than usual, rather than the time they smoke. I've also only ever heard it as being a sort of celebration of Hitler's birthday. Just thought I'd comment. —User:ACupOfCoffee@ @ 08:49, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe 4:20 to be the older form. Also, although weight is given to the San Rafael theory here, I believe the term dates from the thirties (prior even to the H. P. Lovecraft quote), and will update when I have a good citation. -SM 20:00, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I've always seen it written as just "420". 65.95.159.228 00:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Note that it is -not- a kind of celebration of hitlers birthday, in the text it is not so clear, but it says that potsmokers stand for the opposite of everything that Hitler was. // flibben

Home Economics

I've always heard 420 referred to being connected with cooking. Where the recipe calls out "put in oven at 420(deg) and bake" Anonymous 'Baker' 22:55 23,December 2005


-4:20 has been used so long that it has become a famliar and symbolic marijuana myth. Still used, seen, and practiced. Most of the 4:20 origin are simply fables or urban legends: Police radio code-4:20, Allen Ginsberg writing expeiernce-the clock read 4:20. There should be a seperate category devoted to the fabels, and origin myths...

removed UVM's tradition

Removed:

At the University of Vermont (UVM), students gather in the center of campus on April 20 every year at 4:20 p.m. to smoke marijuana. Generally, the police leave participants alone, though in recent years UVM authorities have made efforts to halt the annual event.

I don't think we should list every college that has a 4:20 4/20 smoking session. —alxndr (t) 18:47, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, but some mention must be made of the number that do. Mathiastck 18:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Songs of 4:20 length

Ok, I've got about 56 songs on my playlist that are 4:20 in length. Unless a song has additional references to cannabis culture, it doesn't belong here.

Dropping 2 links

Hi all, I have dropped 420chan dot org (420chan) potblog dot com (Pot Blog) The first is offline most of the time and a porn linker in the other. The second is Google Adsense trap.

Partial clean-up

  • I have tried to weed out (geddit) the stuff that was off-topic or unrelated. I think we can safely leave out listing songs that happen to have lengths of 4:20, unless they have some other connection to marijuana (like the Boston example). The Doors' one wasn't even 4:20, more like 4:08 on the original version of LA Woman! I got rid as well of the references to Hitler, I find it highly unlikely that that is the origin of the term, and certainly if it were to be put back in, we would need a source that seriously debates that being the actual origin of the term. On the topic of sources, some would be nice, at the moment this reads like a bunch of coincidences that, although maybe seemed wondrous when they were realised, are simply patent original research without sources. Feel free to discuss any of the bits I took out (I'll have another look and see if I missed any other turkeys) but you have to admit this article was riddled with inaccuracies and irrelevancies, no? The only other thing that occurs to me, are we allowed to show a photo of a whole bunch of people contravening the law? Do we not need their permission or anything? Just a thought, I have no idea about these things.. Jdcooper 01:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Teatime?

"Some members of the northern California medical marijuana community believe there is a link between the time 4:20 and the British concept of Teatime"

I have removed this bizarre claim to the talk page because there is no assertion of notability or verification. Please elaborate on why anyone thinks this and what they actually think (what is the link, etc), or better yet provide some sources, so the wikipedia community can discuss whether it is worth inclusion. Wikipedia is not a compendium of stoner conspiracies! Jdcooper 01:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Jdcooper request for source, but I'm afraid he is mistaken on another point. Wikipedia is a compendium of stoner conspiracies! Mathiastck 18:27, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

No need for coincidences in this article

It seems like a lot of the 420 occurances in this article are coincidences, or the link is sketchy at best. For example, since the article claims 420 originated in the 70s, why are there any references to it before then? --Frantik 07:54, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

  • I agree (unless they are in the origin section maybe, but even then their inclusion has to be justified). Take them out if you don't think they should be there. Jdcooper 20:13, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry, I have to disagree. Regardless of the timeframe, these so-called coincidences are still interesting. This is meant to be about the appearance of the number 420 in cannabis culture, not merely a historical account of the term's origin. For example, I believe that many people find H.P. Lovecraft's use of 4:20 in his description of a hallunicogenic plant interesting, and simply because he used this term before it was popularly appropriated seems rather irrelevent-- cannabis aficianados today are aware of this story and its reference, and therefore it is meaningful to an article regarding 420 in cannabis culture. The article clearly states when the term originated, and the readers of wikipedia are smart enough to judge for themselves what is a "coicidence" and what is not. LearningKnight 15:51, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree with LearningKnight. It's tricky to pin point origins in cases like these. Trying to trace all the symbolic uses of a number, and pinpointing when it was first widely used as a specific symbol is pretty difficult. Collective unconscious and all that. Mathiastck 18:23, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Unless it is clear that a 420 reference undoubtedly relates to marijuana, I think that it should be listed on the page for 420 (number). Just because there's a sequence of the numbers 4, 2, and 0 it doesn't mean that it's relevant to this page. CenozoicEra 22:08, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
  • If the nursery rhyme 'Sing a Song of Sixpence' has no references to 420 and was written before "baked" became connotated with marijuana smoking (and in the context of the poem, baked refers to baking a pie), why is it in this article?

Another interesting coincidence that I just calculated: Obviously, this NOT the origin of the word, but the Hebrew word for “smoke,” “ashan” (Ayin [70] – Shin [300] – Nun [50]), adds up to 420, without the use of a final Nun. --Scottclemens 21:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Madison smokeouts

There was nothing in this artical about the Madison smokeouts at the state captial and school campus' which is the first theory i heard about.

  • I'm suspicious of that explanation; I've lived in Wisconsin my entire life and in Madison for the last ten, and the infrequent "weedfests" and so forth have never been on April 20th to my knowledge. KASchmidt 21:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

you shouldnt smoke because its bad for your lungs

It's true, many people would be better off eating it, taking a pill, etc. The problem is that is a more expensive method of consumption, especially considering black markets have trouble taking advantage of economies of scale. Mathiastck 18:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Temporary protection

I think this page should be temporarily protected until 4/20 is over. It's just too tempting a target for vandalism. One person's already tried to vandalize it twice today. 70.29.1.155 07:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Protection is not to be used in advance of possible vandalism. Also, both instances were by the same user and if the user vandalizes again, they will be banned for 24 hours. If this page becomes the target of widespread vandalism, then sprotection will be considered, but until then, the page doesn't need it. --PS2pcGAMER (talk) 07:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree it should not be protected, I think it's likely that a lot of productive work on the page will be done today :) Mathiastck 18:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Word of mouth but a bit sensible

I am looking for sources to confirm or deny this, but I recall someone mentioning to me at some point that there was a band that would start their concerts at 4:30, and all the audience members would start smoking at 4:20 so they would be high by the time the band began to play. --Zanthra 08:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

  • They probably did. If you can sort out useful info like which band it was, and source it, then that sounds like a reasonable addition.. Jdcooper 12:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Sounds preposterous to me. Rock band concerts are generally evening affairs, except for weekend "all ages" shows. If any band with a significant following insisted on playing only at 4:30 (AM? PM?) this idiosyncrasy would be notorious. If it's some obscure local band, seems unlikely to be the cause of a national phenom. And how many unknown bands can dictate starting times to their venues? Bustter 17:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Inclusion of false origin theories.

What does anyone reckon about including the theories of 420's origin which are clearly not true (such as Bob Marley's deathday)? Technically i suppose they aren't really encyclopaedic, as they are lies, but it gives context to the actual origin, and people still believe them, so should they be left there with the refutations, for informativeness? Even if we don't include them in the article, people are still going to add them as theories, just without the refutations that accompany the factoids currently. Thoughts? Jdcooper 16:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Common fallacies certainly are encyclopedic, just as every legitimate encyclopedia will address the George Washington "cherry tree" myth.
The current division, giving primacy to one commonly accepted (though not proven) origin, a second group of possible, but unsupported origins, and a third group of refuted theories of origin, seems fine to me.
I just made a slight change to these sections. There are two origin theories that refer literary works. One makes reference to Lovecraft, another to a child's nursery rhyme. The Lovecraft theory was among the "possible" origins, while the nursery rhyme was listed as "refuted."
I can't imagine how one could possibly "refute" either the Lovecraft or the nursery rhyme origin. One might conclude either, or both, to be unlikely; either or both could be "dismissed" on the basis of logic or instinct, but that is not "refutation." I moved the nursery rhyme theory out of the "refuted" list, to the "possible origins" list. If someone knows how it was "refuted," please restore it to the refuted list with appropriate reference to a refutation. Bustter 18:12, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
I thin the origin of 420, like many counter culture phenomenon, is a frequent subject of urban legend. Listing stated origins, if you can find a source and aren't doing original research is fine, The origins themselves are false but it can be true that they are widely repeated. Mathiastck 18:15, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


As far as the rumor that 420 is not a police code...That is false. I was arrested a few months ago with some of my friends smoking in my car. On the ticket that I got the description was "minors in possesion of intoxicants" and it was in the vilation box had "420" written in it. gwalters 15:46 22 April 2006 (CST)
If you tell us what state or city that was, we could look up the statute/ordinance and verify it. --Metropolitan90 04:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
This wouldn't prove anything about origin even if it was citable. It wouldn't surprise me if Police also use 420 as code for marijuana. A large percentage of officers smoked it before enlisting. Mathiastck 19:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

good music for 420

i.e bob marley, pink floyd, etc. someone should make a list in the discussion of some good chill music when smoking. haha

I think it already exists as a seperate entry, listing a certain category of music, (I can't recall the name) Mathiastck 18:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


something i once read in Rolling Stone about all this 420 madness was that jerry garcia of the grateful dead's official time of death was 4:20 am. This seems like an interesting coincidence, but i am not sure how true it really is...

  • I don't know if that was his time of death, but that can't be the origin of the 4:20 "tradition", since Google Groups shows that people were discussing the association of 4:20 with marijuana more than a year before Garcia died. [1] --Metropolitan90 04:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

April 20th events and traditions

Perhaps there should be something here of the tradition of a large gathering of smokers going to Canada's Parliament Hill on 4/20 and lighting one up by the centennial flame? ;) Rizla 20:44, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Re Norwalk, Ohio: I openly admit my source for this is completely anecdotal (though credible), from a friend who attended college in the area. But it's a great "fact" regardless. :) Mashford 14:08, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Songs with duration 4:20

I have literally hundreds of songs in my media player with duration 4:20, that alone does not warrant mention on this page. That is not an "occurence in music". Please can we leave it out unless there is a plausible specific link, like the Boston song. And that definitely includes the Green Day song, I see no particular link between it and marijuana, or anything to do with marijuana, save for the name of the band, which is not sufficient enough, in my view.

What about the Bob Dylan one? It was released in 1966, before the article's stated origin for this term, but there is a very definite link to marijuana smoking, if a very tenuous further link to the number 420 (why is multiplication a link, can someone explain?) I don't mind either way whether its there really, but I think its worth discussing, if anyone has any strong opinion on the matter? Jdcooper 21:10, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

The fact that it predates the term is itself the argument for its possibly being a source for the term. The generally-accepted origin -- among a dozen kids at a local high school in 1971 -- is not proven. No one claims "multiplication is a link," but rather that the inclusion of two numbers in a song title makes the product of those numbers, 420, implicit in the song title.
While 4:20 is not a highly unusual song length, the product of two two-digit numbers has a much wider range, making this a coincidence of a higher order, and therefore more plausibly the term's origin. This is also one of the very few Dylan songs that achieved "top 40" status, which meant wide radio play at the time. The fact that there exists no rationale for the occurrence of the numbers 12 and 35 in the song title seems like an invitation to the "heads" of the era -- no small number of whom were dylan-obsessed -- to make something of it. The possibility that some group of them did -- perhaps those kids at San Rafael High school -- is there.

H.P. Lovecraft

The same HP Lovecraft reference occurs multiple places in the article. Someone should remove all but the first (there are two that I noticed; there could be more) once the page is unprotected. KASchmidt 21:39, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Yep, three times, but now just once, well spotted Jdcooper 00:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Hitler's Birthday

I see references to April 20 as Hitler's birthday have been removed, but I think they should be left in. Wikipedia's article on Hitler does cite his birthdate as April 20, 1889. This should at the very least be left in "Other plausible suggested origins", since it is. I've heard this explanation more than others. --LakeHMM 04:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

  • No, how is that plausible?! Are you saying that such a widespread term is a celebration of Hitler's birthday? I can see no possible reason why such a link would exist? If you can find a reputable source where someone has actually seriously suggested that the two are linked, and I must stress reputable, then fine, I'll support inclusion, but until then Hitler strikes me as wholly irrelevant to this article. What would be the difference between including Hitler, and including everyone else born on that date, including, to name but a couple, Muhummad, Napoleon III of France, Tito Puente, Edie Sedgwick, Jessica Lange, Luther Vandross and Carmen Electra? Sorry if i appear sceptical, but i can't fathom the logic at all... Jdcooper 00:26, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Hitler is probably the most famous of any of those. It could also be an attempt at irony. 65.95.159.228 00:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
    • How is Hitler more famous than Luther Vandross? Jdcooper 00:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
      • Luther who? 67.165.201.214 17:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
      • yeah no idea who luther is and i cant be bothered looking it up...--203.122.193.244 05:04, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not saying it's necessarily true, but neither are many of the things listed on the page. It simply lists common theories, and this is definitely a common theory. And yes, Hitler is certainly more famous than Luther Vandross. Why? 'Cause he killed more people. --LakeHMM 04:36, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
    • "definitely a common theory" - needs to be sourced. otherwise that theory will never go beyond original research Jdcooper 16:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
      • There are websites that claim it could be from Hitler's Birthday. One site said, "A final but certainly not exhaustive explanation is that 420 originated from Adolf Hitler's birthday. One smoker explained: "Hitler represents in sharp opposite contrast all that the marijuana-smoking community stands for." This theory, like the theories above, cannot be proven to have any direct reference to 420." Here's that link: http://hempfest.org/420.php Now I may not agree with it, it's certainly a theory as to the origin. --Sloan47 16:57, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I strongly suggest that the origin of 4:20 came from Hitlers birthday, in fact prior to reading this article it was the only origin in my mind. The logic behind a stoner celebration on Hitlers birthday is because Hitler disapproved of smoking pot and now it is smoked on his birthday to show a high disrespect for him.

  • This means nothing without proof. Many origins of the name have been heavily researched. If this was a plausible origin, it would have come up.--Aleron235 00:49, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

its just that hitler's birthday is common knowledge in connection with 420. it should be put up.

  • Yes, but whose common knowledge? certainly not mine, or any of the other people who disagree. please source claims, especially controversial ones. Jdcooper 16:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed the line. If it is true or not, no citation is available, and the plausability of this idea is in dispute. It is better to make an error of ommision than an error of fact. IMHO HighInBC 17:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

If we are going to include that ridiculous allusion to Hitler here, we absolutely must include a reference to a REPUTABLE source that has cited that as a possible explanation. Otherwise it is just non-notable stonercruft/original research. Jdcooper 02:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

It's common knowledge that he was born on 4/20... savidan(talk) (e@) 23:03, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the birthdate of one of history's most famous celebrities is common knowledge, but we need a source that that is anything other than utter coincidence. Jdcooper 00:56, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

This is absolutely ridiculous. It's more than coincidence because it's commonly associated with it. You can't expect to find scholarly theses on this topic. Furthermore, there aren't citations for most of the other supposed origins, so why is this one being opposed so strongly. Also, Jdcooper, just because you oppose this doesn't mean you should create another section so it can be debated again. This had already been discussed. If you have anything more to add, add it here. I've moved all pertinent discussion to this section on the Talk page. --LakeHMM 04:13, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

commonly associated? Not in my experience, nor has any citation shown so. I said it before and I will say it again: When unsure, an error of omission is preferable to an error in fact. And 'One smoker explained' is not a proper citation. HighInBC 16:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
That's not the only citation. There's a link. And I'm not unsure as to whether or not it is a "possible suggested origin". I am absolutely positive it is. --LakeHMM 19:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Yup, because that link details various different theories, and it is listed as one. I reworded the passage slightly to clarify why the fact that it was Hitler's birthday would lead to it being a significant thing for smoker's to celebrate. Jdcooper 19:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

SB 420

Chapter 6, of Division 10 of California's Health and Safety Code, which implements a medical marijuana identification card programme was passed as Senate Bill 420 (2003).

Source? This seems worthy of mention, drug culture references in State codes? I dig it :) Mathiastck 19:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Here is a reliable source: http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/sen/sb_0401-0450/sb_420_bill_20031012_chaptered.html

2003 is too recent for this to be the origin of the term, but certainly it's worth a mention. Bustter 15:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Failure to Launch

I'm not sure if this should be included, so I'll say it here and hope others will decide.

In the 2006 Film "Failure to Launch" the house where the main character Tripp lives with his parents has the street number 420.

208.182.181.58 15:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup

I think the layout of this article needs sort of cleanup. What do you think? --Deryck C. 16:40, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Propose a different layout and we'll discuss it... I have no problems personally with the current one. Jdcooper 16:45, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Peephole

I removed the reference to the system of a down song, because it was too speculative. What exactly does "It was supposed to be 4:20 long" mean? And the lyrics were about cannabis, so what? Lots of songs are about cannabis, if it was 4:04 then it doesnt belong here. And I'm unconvinced generally that bands deliberately write songs to be 4:20. Jdcooper 10:23, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

  • I did a look at about 8000 songs a while back, and the amount that were 4m20s fit statistical likelyhood. For what it is worth. HighInBC 17:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Funny elink

Anyone else deem this link worthy? http://thatvideosite.com/view/2270.html ? savidan(talk) (e@) 23:02, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

He'd have won the electric guitar if only he'd stuck with 420, but he boosted to 1420. There's a note on the page that the site will be redesigned, I'd wait and see what the valid link would be after the redesign. Bustter 15:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

To LakeHMM

With respect to your kind good-faith comments, this is the text on the source site: A final but certainly not exhaustive explanation is that 420 originated from Adolf Hitler's birthday. One smoker explained: "Hitler represents in sharp opposite contrast all that the marijuana-smoking community stands for.". Surely this is implying that the term derived from Hitler's birthday as a kind of ironic statement, a big middle finger up to Hitler? I am fine with this staying here, as long as it is sourced (which it never has been before) as long as it is written in this way. To include Hitler's birthday is April 20, but Hitler has nothing to do with stoner culture is not a "possible origin theory", it is either a "refuted urban legend" or plain original research which does not belong. I am not "stubborn" about anything but having sources for controversial claims. Jdcooper 00:14, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Beatles

Their famous song "Come Together," which is a huge part of drug culture is 4:20 long on the CD version. Coincidence?

  • yes, coincidence. the term was not in use at the point that that song was released, and statistically speaking, 4:20 is pretty much one of the most likely durations a song can have. please do not add any reference to this, it has been removed several times before and continues to be unencyclopaedic and irrelevant. Jdcooper 02:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks removed

I have removed a post due to personal attacks. It can be found here[2]. HighInBC 15:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

  • Please refrain from making threats to cultural groups. This is not the correct website for such views. If you present a more articulate argument based on established facts then you will find a better reception to your ideas. HighInBC 15:45, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Columbine High School massacre

Any link between 420 and the Columbine High School massacre which occurred on 20 April 1999? --Kvasir 06:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely not. As it has been noted, many notable events have taken place on April 20th. It's just a coincidence. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Columbine massacre had anything to with marijuana or marijuana culture. LearningKnight 17:09, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree, 1 out of 365.26 events occur on April 20th, being on the same day is not enough, some kind of further connection needs to be shown to indicate it is related to the 420 cannabis culture (which is after all the topic of this article.). This is the same reason I removed the Hitler's birthday reference. 1 out of every 365.26 historical figures was born on April 20th. The Columbine massacre is no more relevent here than on the bowling article, as that is what they were doing just before the attack. HighInBC 20:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I think that the Columbine massacre was planned for 4/20 not because of marajuana, but because it was Hitler's birthdayBassman444 14:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
A Google search columbine & 4/20 & marijuana reveals that this is a persistent myth (over 11k hits). Since no one living is privy to the planning, a connection cannot be denied definitively. This should be mentioned, along with the fact that there is no evidence to support the connection so many have made. Bustter 15:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
Even though it may be a myth that Columbine was planned around 4/20 for the reason of 4/20's connection to marijuana, it's just like HighInBC said. One out of every 365.26 events occurs on 4/20. Perhaps putting in a reference that says somethihng to the effect of that there are many myths involving events that have taken place on 4/20, and a pointer to the page for April 20th? --Junaos 17:18, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Regardless, 11,000 hits for columbine AND 4/20 AND marijuana demonstrates that a startling number of people believe, and are spreading, the trope that Columbine is connected to the 420/marijuana phenom. Obviously this requires mention; avoiding its mention out of a desire to keep marijuana culture "untainted" -- which is what we have right now -- is itself a violation of NPOV. Bustter 17:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Good Eats

The article says that in the show "Good Eats" the clocks are set to 4:20, but I haven't found this to be the case. I was wondering if anyone could cite episodes and scenarios that showed clocks set to 4:20. 68.53.231.172 01:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Other pop culture occurences=

I'd like to see a threshold on the pop culture occurences section. Specifically today I would consider the Dutch coffeeshop and the Japan head shops simply marketing, and since neither instance is pop cultured enough to warrant its own Wikipedia reference, unneccesary.

  • If you think they are non-notable, then be bold. Jdcooper 11:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


re: good eats

I don't remeber the episodes but the analog clock in the background while he's talking to the camera read 4:20 MPaquette 15:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


Slang Terms

I decided to remove the "Marilize Legajuana" reference from slang terms, because I saw no relevance to the topic (420)...is there any relevance here that I wasn't aware of? --Junaos 03:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

In my school district's (Madison Metropolitan School District) handbook, rule number 420 states "Possession of a controlled substance or illegal drug with intent to deliver: Suspend for five days and recommend for expulsion." I would think that's interesting, i scanned the page for proof too. http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i289/poisonthewell614/img004.jpg —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.226.164.148 (talk • contribs) September 12, 2006 (UTC)