Talk:3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate

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Contents 1 No way 2 Cleaned up Signs and Symptoms 3 Added a link 4 Similes 5 Recreational use 6 Lethality 7 development and military use 8 This looks copied from somewhere. 9 Somebody's Been Having Fun

[edit] No way

On 7 Aug 2005 much earlier medical materials about folie a deux, etc. were removed. These hinted at the possibility of telepathy, shared visual hallucinations. I have replaced these older materials, because I think they may have great value. User:Kazuba 27 Aug 2006

```Hhmm the page says that BZ was never used by the US army. Isnt this disputed by some?

Yes, it has been disputed, much because of the movie Jacob's Ladder, which in the end stated that the hallucinogenic and psychoactive drug that was given to the main character Jacob was BZ and that the pentagon denied ever administrating it to anyone in the Vietnamese war. Jacob's Ladder is supposedly based on a true story. --Chemiclex 21:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

So its the true story of a man who hallucinated just before he died? Would you perhaps like to step back and explain how such a thing would be possible? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.97.227.219 (talk) 18:13, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Cleaned up Signs and Symptoms

Just did a major cleanup of the signs and symptoms section, many of the listed signs/symptoms were either repeated or didnt convey an actual symptom. --Chemiclex 21:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added a link

I'm new to editing wikipedia articles, but I thought the following was relevant.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002000.html

its about the supposed abuse of BZ by Iraqi fighters before battle. Worth mentioning?  ?

I'd say it's definitely worth mentioning. Good job. --Chemiclex 21:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Similes

I returned the removed similies: they're commonly used mnemonics in medicine, and help to convey a message of specific symptoms. – ClockworkSoul 16:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I just thought it was weird to have 'Blind as a bat', 'dry as a bone', 'mad as a hatter', etc added in brackets and speech marks after each symptom. Do you think you could include an explanation in the article, so that people know what they are and why they're there? Otherwise it looks like someone added very strange comments to the article.

Thank you. 11:12, 22 December 2005 (UTC) (Skittle)

I found the constant similies early in the article to be distracting, odd, and actually somewhat irritating. I'm not sure why they're there—it's not exactly a common encyclopediac convention or even, in its persistence, an English language one! RobertM525 09:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

I strongly agree. Perhaps move them to their own paragraph? There you could group each simile, i.e. "A person is sometimes said to be 'dry as a bone' because of symptoms A, B, C, etc." — 05:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I also concur - these folkisms have no role or value in an otherwise fairly well-written article. Unless there is a documented history of referring to BZ symptons specifically by these names then I find them superflous. (Lawson) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.82.110.4 (talk) 04:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC).

I'm for their removal as well. I thought them so odd that I checked this discussion page to see if others felt the same. They are really strange and confusing.

Agree with all above who object to these silly distractions. Burn at the stake editor who added them. — Xiong熊talk* 05:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recreational use

Why is recreational use of this drug inconceivable if the side effects included euphoria, relaxation, etc? It sounds like multi-person acid, which I know a lot of people would try. A lot of the effects sound terrifying, but anyone who has ever had a bad trip knows that mushrooms, acid, DMT, etc. are very capable of incapacitation and inducing fear.

[edit] Lethality

I had mistakenly assumed the Lct50 of BZ was 200,000 mg.min/m3 form amny years. Dr. Jim Katchum, a military surgeon with first hand experieince in the program called me on this and after investigating it I found I could not find a supporting reference. However, the Joint CB Technical Data Source Book on BZ states the LCt01 (for 1% fatalities), is 3,800 - 40,000 mg.min.m3. Dr. Katchum's experieince indicated that a figure around 4,000 mg.min/m3 was appropriate. I believe the 200,000 mg.min/m3 estimate came from erroneous extrapolation of animal model data - specifically Randall, L. O. et al. Spasmolytic action of bicyclic basic alcohol esters. Journal of Pharmacology and Experimental Therapeutics 104: 284-90, 1952, which infers a 1,000 fold difference between ICt50 and LCt50, which when applied to an East German figure for the ICt50 of 200 mg.min/m3 from the 1960's produces the figure mistakenly stated today.

Reid Kirby 16 January 2007

[edit] development and military use

in this section of the article the following stuck out: "certain tranquilizers like ketamine or fentanyl" ketamine is not a tranquilizer in the technical sense, rather it is a dissociative anaesthetic. afaik 'tranquilizer' does not have a specific medical definition differing from the generic 'sedative', so it may be more accurate to refer to it as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 3dom (talk • contribs) 19:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

Fentanyl isn't really a tranquilizer either - it's a narcotic. 129.97.79.144 15:05, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This looks copied from somewhere.

Towards the end it starts to use inferred second person and almost turn into an instruction set! I don't know if it was written up that way or if it was swiped wholesale from some source, but it definately fits the cleanup tag someone added. 68.39.174.238 06:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Somebody's Been Having Fun

Just removed another blatant irrelevancy:

(Although the phrase "mad as a hatter" is commonly believed to refer to poisoning from mercury formerly used by hatters on felt,[1] it can just as well serve as a reminder of CNS effects from anticholinergics.)

Now, I don't know a damn thing about BZ; that's why I'm reading the article. But this is clearly a prank -- just barely under the radar ("smooth as a seal"). This is the sort of damfoolishness that makes WP the butt of jokes on the train or Colbert Report.

Is this project still worth anything? — Xiong熊talk* 05:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)