User talk:213.114.215.199

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Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. I'm afraid that there's a good chance that the human monster category will eventually be deleted. You might want to wait until a decision has been made before you continue adding articles to the category. You are welcome to add to the discussion here. Joyous (talk) 18:16, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

From Wikipedia's policy on NPOV:

You won't even need to say he was evil. That's why the article on Hitler does not start with "Hitler was a bad man" — we don't need to, his deeds convict him a thousand times over. We just list the facts of the Holocaust dispassionately, and the voices of the dead cry out afresh in a way that makes name-calling both pointless and unnecessary.

Evercat 18:21, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

The above answers the question you asked me aswell. Labeling people as a human monster is not NPOV editing. Instead of saying that someone was a human monster, we try to just state the things that the persons have done, and then the reader can make up their own mind. Shanes 18:23, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] List of villains

Please stop undoing many changes on the List of villains page (and to a lesser extent, on the List of heroes page). Changes without edit summaries are not appreciated, and if you have an issue with some of the entries, please discuss it on the appropriate talk page, don't just keep making the same edits over and over. Other people reverting your changes is not considered "vandalism", so please stop cluttering the talk page with those charges. Turnstep 13:50, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

You continue to revert changes that people make. Please explain why on the List of villains talk page so we can avoid any edit wars. Thanks. Turnstep 12:13, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

You wrote:

Have you alphabetizing the villains after the last name?

The answer is, yes. I thought that was the consensus for what was wanted, per the talk page. Let's discuss this there. —Josiah Rowe 17:40, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

As per the above but for List of non-fictional heroes please do not remove real people just because you don't think they are heroes, other people do think they are. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 07:17, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi. You recently reverted List of villains back to a much earlier version. As you can see on the talk page, there's been a fair amount of discussion about how best to organize the page, and the page is in transition from the earlier alphabetical format to being organized by medium. If you think this is a bad idea, please feel free to discuss it on the talk page, rather than reverting without an edit summary. Thank you. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 16:48, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Er... as I said above, the page is being reorganized, after much discussion. I don't agree with your description of the reorganization as "sabotage". Please discuss the changes on the talk page instead of reverting to the earlier alphabetical version. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:41, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

You have once again reverted the page to the alphabetical version without comment. Wikipedia operates by consensus. I had thought that a consensus had been reached to reorganize the page by medium (see Talk:List of villains/Archive01). However, it seems you either disagree, or have chosen to ignore it. Therefore, I've decided to put it to a straw poll. Please come to Talk:List of villains and explain your argument for why the page should be taken back to the alphabetical listing, instead of the organization by medium currently under way. Also, please do not revert to the former version until this vote has been concluded. Thank you. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:41, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of non-fictional heroes

Dictionary meaning of hero 1. In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods. 2. A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war. 3. A person noted for special achievement in a particular field: the heroes of medicine.

The whole list is point of view. You don't believe that Neil Armstrong is a hero and that's fine but others do. I don't think that Jesus is a hero but someone else does. I would suspect that many would not consider Fidel Castro a hero butI think he is. It really comes down to each person's belief as to who is a hero. I already removed Elvis but perhaps I should not have. The list is going to get worse as time goes by. Sooner or later someone will add George W. Bush or Tony Blair and while I don't consider them heroes someone might. The argument is that they have qualified under number 3 above. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I note that you are deleting some of the candidates I have put up. I guess you disagree that they are horoes. For example, Hans Rudel is clearly a hero as he was recognised by his enemies too. He was the most decorated German in WW2, was wounded many times, and repeatedly went back into action, even when ordered not to by his superiors. Wallie 15:15, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
So what you are really saying is that only Americans and British are heroes, as they are the victors. Believe me, you have to be more of a hero to fight on a losing side. As for Hans Rudel and other Germans, they were fighting for their country. All sides in war are responsible for deaths, not just the losing side. As far as Stalin is concerned, he was widely acknowledged as a hero after WW2. When the US started to fight him, he was rapidly criticised. This is politics. If Churchill and Roosevelt are heroes, then so is Stalin. Remember that Churchill is not considered a hero in some parts of the world, but is in the USA. It is unfair to keep reverting, just because of YOUR POV. I may disagree with your candidates too, but would definitely never delete them. Wallie 15:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I get your point. But these people like Hans Rudel were not fighting to kill innocent people. They were in combat for their country. You could argue that the United States also murdered 60 million Indians. But that is irrelevant when deciding wheteher individual American soldiers are heroes or not. I cannot see how you think Tenzing Norgay is a Nazi. I know he is not British or American... but.... Wallie 15:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Admin?

No. I am not. Wallie 11:32, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of non-fictional heroes

See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of non-fictional heroes. Since it has undergone an Article for Deletion process, an article of a substantially similar nature should not be recreated at that location. If an article is recreated, it may be speedily deleted: see WP:CSD. Enochlau 13:20, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I can't just delete things for the fun of it. If you would like to see List of villains deleted as well, please nominate it for deletion: see WP:AFD. Enochlau 15:00, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hero

Hi. you said: Why you take of the People traditionally recognized as heroes from the artikel Hero? 213.114.215.199 15:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Not me. I would never do this. Wallie 15:59, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I did this because it was discussed on the article talk page, and it is very difficult, if not impossible, to keep the list NPOV. In addition, it was growing large enough to distract from the article itself, and thus was broken off into two lists: List of heroes and List of non-fictional heroes. You are welcome to add things to either of those lists. If you think the "traditional" list belongs back on the hero page, please discuss it on the hero talk page. - Turnstep 18:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Stalin v Churchill

Both have their admirers and detractors. Stalin was vilified after Kruschev came into power, due to a Soviet power stuggle. Many older people are very grateful to Stalin and the Soviet Union. Remember the Soviets were fighting when the USA was enjoying peace. Churchill is popular in Britain but not in the Southern Hemisphere, due to his betrayal in WW1 and WW2. Remember, the USA was never under threat. We were! Wallie 16:34, 6 December 2005 (UTC) I never said Stalin was more of a hero than Churchill. I just said that both have good and bad sides to them. Wallie 20:19, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Please vote and discuss at Talk:List of villains

Hey, 213.114.215.199. Apparently I was a bit confused about the whole straw poll thing. Anyway, it's going on now, and I'd really appreciate it if you could come to Talk:list of villains, vote in the straw poll and explain your reasons for preferring the old, alphabetical format of the page. I want to work towards a consensus here, and we can't do that without you. Thanks! —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 16:42, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

(copied from User talk:Josiah Rowe)You asked why i deleded it wase before. Becorce i don't liked to organized by the medium in which they originated. I will have it it wase before. 213.114.215.199 18:26, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry, that's just not good enough. Wikipedia isn't just your personal site to change as you see fit. As I've pointed out to you before, Wikipedia operates by consensus. Now, it's possible that the consensus on how List of villains should be formatted wasn't clear. That's why I'm holding the straw poll now. It would be very helpful if you could come to Talk:list of villains and explain your preference for the alphabetical list, ideally with better reasons than "I liked it before". The page will be organized in whatever manner the consensus of editors decide, whether you're part of that consensus or not. It would, of course, be best if you participate in the discussion in reaching that consensus. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:32, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
(copied from User talk:Josiah Rowe)Yes, You are rele, rele sorry. 213.114.215.199 18:47, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
What? Was that supposed to be some sort of insult? I'm tempted to make a comment about the wisdom of attempting to bait someone in a language you're far from fluent in, but instead I'll just point you to Wikipedia:Civility. I've been polite and respectful to you in this process, despite occasionally having to struggle to understand what you're trying to say due to your limited command of English. I expect the same politeness and respect in return.
But please, let's not get into a slanging match over something so insignificant. Instead, let's work to improve the article in question through the processes Wikipedia has set up to establish consensus. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 18:55, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of villains

Hi. Is the way that the pages are organized at the moment OK by you? The list is now categorized. I understand that they were in some aplhabetical order earlier, which I have not seen, as I came into this article after that. However the categorized state looks like it has been around for some time now, and it looks OK by me. I know that you have disagreed with some names I have put up on the earlier heroes list, but these can easily be taken off/put back. However a format change of this list is more complicated. So what I would like to know is... are you happy with the way things are at the moment. If so, then geeat. If not, what would you like to happen? Wallie 19:27, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

PS: The heroes list was taken away. I was not happy about that either, but that's life! Wallie 19:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Real people as villains in movies etc.

Why you sey the nazi are hero in movies?

I mentioned that Rommel was portrayed as a hero in "the Desert Fox". Here is what Churchill said about him immediately after he died:
"He also deserves our respect, because, although a loyal German soldier, he came to hate Hitler and all his works, and took part in the conspiracy to rescue Germany by displacing the maniac and tyrant. For this, he paid the forfeit of his life. In the sombre wars of modern democracy, there is little place for chivalry”.
Remember that everyone has to fight for his country in times of war. I really believe that each country fighting in a war has its heroes, not just the winning side. Wallie 12:38, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hero page

Please stop reverting the Hero page to the older version. This has been discussed before. The place to argue for your changes at this point is the talk page, as you have been told above. Turnstep 13:39, 11 December 2005 (UTC)