Talk:1987 Pacific hurricane season

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Hurricanes
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1987 Pacific hurricane season was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: August 5, 2007

[edit] GA hold

I am putting this article on hold because of a few prose problems and because a bit more information is needed.

  • It would improve the descriptions of the storms if you explained where they were somehow, either using distances to familiar landmasses or the coordinate system. It is difficult to understand the descriptions when they say the hurricane moved a certain direction if you don't know where they started out.
  • I noticed that the dots marking the storm's path in some images change color - this is not explained to the reader anywhere on the page. I assumed the different colors indicated different hurricane strengths, but I was not sure.

Prose:

  • The activity this season continued the trend of above average numbers of tropical storms. - When did this trend begin?
  • Two tropical storms moved in from the east. - This is vague - from where to where?
    • The above two have been changed. The first part has been taken out. The second one has been changed to mention the basin boundary of 140 W. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 23:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
      • Two tropical storms moved in from the entered this basin from the east by crossing 140°W - This doesn't make sense. Awadewit | talk 22:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
  • During its life, Adrian paralled the Mexican shoreline far offshore before cyclonically looping over its path when it was a depression. - What does "cyclonically" mean? I'm no hurricane expert, obviously. Perhaps such words could be defined for the uninitiated?
  • Beatriz never approached land and with impact, if any, being unknown. - awkward phrasing
  • A tropical disturbance organized into a tropical depression on 22 July - can a depression "organize"?
  • Changed the wording. A disturbance can organize into a tropical depression, but cleaned up the wording anyway. Thegreatdr 16:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
  • As of 2007, Hurricane Eugene or its remnants are responsible for the highest tropical cyclone caused rainfall since 1983 - awkward phrasing
  • For unclear reasons, the name Knut was retired after this season. Possible explanations include difficulties in pronunciation, the name having some sort of unacceptable meaning in a language, or because the cyclone was a major natural disaster. - This is confusing - the paragraph above said that it never touched land - was there some other natural disaster named "Knut"? If so, you need to mention it and link to it.
  • Dealt with. Since wikipedia is supposed to read like an encyclopedia, idle speculation shouldn't be within the article. It was removed. Thegreatdr 15:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
  • I still don't understand what the "other natural disaster" is referring to. Awadewit | talk 22:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Because of an El Niño, a "cloud cluster" situated southeast of Hawaii gathered enough convection and a closed circulation to become Tropical Depression Two-C on 21 September. - Is it correct to say "an El Nino" or simply "El Nino"? I'm not sure.
    • Context makes it clear that saying "an El Nino" refers to a specific El Nino event. Just saying "El Nino" refers to the phenomenon as a whole. Thus, in this page, "an El Nino" means "The El Nino of 1987". Does that clarify? Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 23:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
      • "An El Nino" would then seem to refer to any El Nino, not specifically the 1987 El Nino. Why not specify "the 1987 El Nino", then? Awadewit | talk 23:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
        • I changed the sentence, although personally I'd think that since the article is about the 1987 Pacific hurricane season, there would be enough context to indicate that the dates are in 1987. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 21:53, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
          • I would hope so, too, but readers can be remarkably daft. It's nice to give them some reminders along the way. Awadewit | talk 22:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Minor suggestion:

  • It might be nice to have an image next to the lead.
    • I agree. Can someone add/create a season map for the upper right corner? Thegreatdr 15:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
      • Done :P Use the updated infobox code please, makes stuff easier. File is uploaded but not in article as of yet due to nasty syntax.--Nilfanion (talk) 00:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
        • The image is a red-link for some reason. Awadewit | talk 22:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

If you have any questions about this review, please let me know. When you have finished the revisions, drop me a line on my talk page and I will re-review it. Awadewit | talk 12:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


  • I would add that the article needs one satellite image for each storm as well. Thegreatdr 16:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Note: Please don't strike out other people's comments. It is like changing their wording - the reviewer decides if the objection has been addressed and does the striking. Editors often use something like {{done}} to remind themselves of what they have completed. Thanks. Awadewit | talk 21:08, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I have one comment. Seeing as Unisys is a private site, and it uses data from the EPAC best track, I think it would be better to cite the best track instead. Hurricanehink (talk) 23:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

The Unisys data is much easier to understand by a person. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 20:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
It's still not official, though. I think officialness is better than ease of use. Hurricanehink (talk) 22:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Other featured (namely, higher than Good) material, such as the List of Delaware hurricanes, the List of Baja California Peninsula hurricanes, and the List of New Jersey hurricanes, use Unisys. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 22:53, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Madeline on this article. However on the Atlantic FAs easyhurdat should be used:it has anchors to direct link to the storms; unlike the full hurdat, and is readable.--Nilfanion (talk) 00:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
What about using both? It is always better to have mutually-reinforcing sources, anyway. Awadewit | talk 22:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
The reason is they aren't mutually reinforcing when they are the same data sets (as opposed to two distinct news articles on a topic). Ease of use should take priority here IMO.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Could you argue that one is for lay readers and one is for more expert readers and on those grounds include both? Awadewit | talk 15:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, the one is for expert readers, but is the official data set for the basin; the other (Unisys) uses the expert data and makes it easy to use and see. As Unisys, which is used, only uses the official yet difficult to read data, sourcing it is sourcing the best track, so it comes down to using what's the best source, or the source easiest to use. I personally prefer the expert data, but I'm not sure what's best here. Hurricanehink (talk) 15:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

<indent>Better yet: take the best track data and dump it to wikisource in easyhurdat format ;) That is a longer term thing well beyond this specific article though - as long as the numbers are referenced here who cares?--Nilfanion (talk) 16:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC) Sorry that is outside wikisource scope...--Nilfanion (talk) 01:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA fail

I am failing this article, since the seven days have elapsed and there are still outstanding issues (namely, giving the location of each hurricane and resolving the source debate). Awadewit | talk 00:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)