Talk:1984 (Van Halen album)

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Contents

[edit] Format

Was this album first released on Vinyl or CD? because the track listing should reflect whatever the newest format used on the day of first release. Hence if it was released on CD later, there should be a "Side One, Side Two" in the track listing. Axcess (talk) 19:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Some things need to be either verified (Who considers it a milestone in rock history? How is Jump one of the biggest songs ever? Who decided what tracks off of the album are classics or not?). One entire paragraph in particular makes the article NPOV:

“ Although known primarily as a guitar band, 1984 gave Eddie Van Halen, a classically-trained pianist, an opportunity to flex his keyboard skills like never before. Arguably, keyboards played more of a role on 1984 than on any other Van Halen album before or since, particularly on the songs "Jump," "I'll Wait" and instrumental album-opener "1984." ”

Irk(talk) 02:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

I took a look at the sections you mentioned and I think I've managed to make them more NPOV. I got rid of unnecessary adjectives and exaggerations and added some reference links to the larger claims made in the article. Hopefully this improves overall quality.Transego 08:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

The references still need some work. Or better put, the article needs to be edited to match the references. For example, the article states that 1984 "is considered by many to be a milestone in rock history," but the referenced article doesn't call the album a milestone, and certainly doesn't show that "many" think it's a milestone. Several songs are called "classics," but the referenced article merely states the songs (actually 3 of the 4) are classics as well. That doesn't prove anything. You can say, "so-and-so called these songs classics," but beyond quotes I would avoid the word classic as hopelessly POV. Make only objectively supportable claims.
Also, as of right now, the references aren't showing up in the article, only on the editing page. Something isn't formatted correctly.--emw 15:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I believe I have edited out all of the POV for now. The source given wasn't even reliable - it's a page from the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame that might very well be copy they received from Van Halen's PR agency. --Spike Wilbury ♫ talk 19:05, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Replacing "1984" with "MCMLXXXIV"?

As I was surfing the various Van Halen pages here, I began to notice that most occurrences of "1984" had been replaced with "MCMLXXXIV". Most of these changes appear to have been made by User:Wiendietry. Although this is how the name of the album is printed on its front cover, a google search for MCMLXXXIV yields only 4410 results whereas a google search for 1984 yields 535000. In addition, almost all of the Van Halen discographies turned up by this google search refer to this album as 1984. What are everybody else's thoughts on this?

Linkminer 22:01, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

If you look at the edit history for this talk page, you will see that the article was moved to MCMLXXXIV recently, and then moved back by me for the reason you mention. When doing this I took into account the fact that 1984 is the more common name, and that the back cover of the album refers to it by that name. --PEJL 22:07, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I did see that, but I'm referring to something else (and if I recall correctly, that move was performed by someone else). I'm referring to changes that are being made to various Van Halen pages that refer to this album. These pages include Hot for Teacher, Jump (Van Halen song), House of Pain (disambiguation), Panama (song), The Best of Both Worlds (Van Halen album), Women in Love (Van Halen song), 5150 (album), 5150 Studios, Van Halen Discography, and many others (search for MCMLXXXIV for a complete list). I figured it makes sense to put this discussion here because it concerns the topic of this article. Linkminer 22:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I realize you were technically referring to something else, but these should all use the same title, so it's really the same issue. In general, I think the name of the article should be the primary source of the title, and other articles should adapt to the title used there. --PEJL 00:45, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1984 - 3 musical strands

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There should be a paragraph on the musical development of 1984. Something like this:

In terms of musical content, 1984 marks the end of the first chapter of Van Halen's recording career, and the start of the new chapter. The new chapter involved Eddie Van Halen increasingly writing pop oriented songs on keyboard, and recording at his home studio, 5150, which gave him more control and freedom. 2 songs, "Jump", and "I'll Wait", represent this new direction. However the Van Halen traditional guitar sound dominates the album - two thirds of songs feature no keyboards at all. This sharp division of synth-dominant pop rock, and 3-piece party rock, would continue on the next two albums (5150, OU812). Because the synth-dominant songs invariably became the radio-played singles, 1984 also began the popular misconception that Van Halen had completely changed to a pop-metal band.

Closer examination reveals that songs on the album can be quite sharply divided into 3 categories:

1. Synth driven: "Jump", "I'll Wait" 2. Traditional, simple: "Panama", "Hot For Teacher" 3. Experimental, complex: "Top Jimmy", "1984", "Girl Gone Bad", "House of Pain"

In the second category, Eddie uses variations on the same themes present on the first, and arguably most popular, Van Halen album, the self-titled debut. Hence, "Hot for Teacher" is a souped-up, southern boogified "I'm The One", and "Panama" heats up the concert mosh of "Running With The Devil."

The third category of songs feature Eddie Van Halen experimenting with non-pop song structures, alternate tunings, and key modulation. It's a thread which is present on 1981's "Fair Warning", but which, after sales were disappointing, was absent from the much more commercial "Diver Down." However, much of 1984 feels much like a continuation and refinement of the band's more adventurous ideas on "Fair Warning." The song "1984" is an instrumental, basically an improvisation by Eddie on an Oberheim OB-Xa synth. "Girl Gone Bad" and "House of Pain" feature time changes, rapid key modulations, and relatively long instrumental sections. Essentially this third category is Eddie Van Halen straining to fit harmonic and structural complexity into a short, high energy rock format. Although the results, both commercially and critically, were an unreserved success, this third category, would be dropped after this album, and not be picked up again until the recordings with Roth for the greatest hits album ("Me Wise Magic", and "You Can't Get This Stuff No More").

[edit] 1983 or 1984?

This article says that the album has been released on the 9th of January of 1984. In the past I read that the album was released on the 31st of December of 1983. I wonder if any of you has read the same information somewhere.

ICE77 -- 84.223.76.36 12:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:VanHalen 1984 fcover.jpg

Image:VanHalen 1984 fcover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 15:47, 21 January 2008 (UTC)