Talk:1938 FIFA World Cup

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Contents

[edit] Requested move

Football World Cup 1938 → 1938 FIFA World Cup – following the consensus of naming the World Cup articles as FIFA World Cup in Wikipedia, and consistency of naming the major international football tournaments.

Discuss here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Competitions#Requested move of Football World Cup articles. --Pkchan 10:42, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Moved per requested move. --Pkchan 12:58, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notes section - what does this mean?

"With the idea of the alternative of organize the 1938 FIFA World Cup to South America, Argentina was candidate for the event who lost with Germany." - I don't understand what this is meant to mean..... ChrisTheDude 11:37, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Leonidas

According to Leônidas da Silva, there is some dispute about the number of goals that he scored against Poland. Our scorecard of the match shows three goals, not four. If that is so, the infobox should be modified to show that he scored 7 goals in the tournament, not eight. Tintin (talk) 13:58, 3 May 2006 (UTC)


I the replay match between Brazil and Czechoslovakia, [official match report] states that Leonidas scored both the brazilian goals. If that is correct, Leonidas scored 8 goals in the tournament.

[edit] Win or die

It can be argued that Hungary - or at least its goalkeeper - allowed Italy to win, as a measure to save the lives of the Italian Team, which had received telegrams by Mussolini with "Win or die." written on them. Hungarian goalkeeper Antal Szabo expressed his relief following his side's defeat against Italy despite letting in four goals in the loss. Referring to Mussolini's pre-match threats, Szabo quipped "I may have let in four goals, but at least I saved their lives".

Actually, this sentence is quite wrong. Vincere o morire (mistranslated in "win or die". With my poor english I could translate in Victory or bust!) was a typical encouragement from fascist era, meaning "give all you can to achieve victory". No real life threats were involved. Lot of sportsmen "busted" or didn't win in the 20 years of Mussolini, and no one of them was ever put to death.
Sports were in high value under fascism, and champions were national heroes very useful for propaganda: an act like this could never be made, or even thought!

If this is an actual sentence from Antal Szabo, should be made clear that this was a misunderstanding, if not a poor excuse for the lost match. --Jollyroger 17:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, historical misunderstanding. - Darwinek 23:09, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Knockout stages diagram not showing eightfinals

Why is this? The eight "first round" matches are "knockout" matches themselves and part of the "knockout stage". The corresponding section of the 1934 World Cup (the only other world cup to have the same format) has the same style. I assume this was done on purpose to make it look similar to latter world cups, so I won't change it yet; I think, however, that this is unnecessary and inaccurate. The eightfinals matches should be added to the brackets. Anyone agree?

I moved the bracket to before the listing of matches, as it made no sense to place it *after* round one, however, the template used is coded to show the "round of 16" as "Second Round", whereas in this Cup it was in fact the first round - I can't figure out how to change this. Any ideas....? ChrisTheDude 07:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Final Rankings (unofficial)*

Is the section original research or is it calculated retrospectively from Fifa's new rankings system, and thus quasi-official?  Slumgum T. C.   23:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The rankings were used by FIFA to determine seeds in recent years. The tables from 1978 to present are valid and for consistency we can include the ones from 1930-1974 as well. For that matter FIFA has ranked the early tournaments anyway and a document with those rankings can be found here http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/releases/en/fwc_origin_en.pdf Libro0 17:11, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit issue

I have some doubts about this edit. It is true, AFAIK, but I wouldn't call it "provocative". It was normal in the fascist period to wear the black bands, as a symbol of being a party member. --Jollyroger 09:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I saw a BBC documentary which explicitly said the black shirts were worn as a deliberately provocative act.  sʟυмɢυм • т • c  17:03, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I think it was quite overexaggerated, then :-) That wasn't a shirt, that was a cloth band on the right arm. And again, it was quite normal. Should we leave that or revert --Jollyroger 17:08, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Hold on, we seem to be confusing two things here. Italy did not wear 'black bands' against France in their match in Paris during that World Cup; they wore the 'maglia nera', moreover, an all black outfit. I would encourage an examination of the account of the match in Fascism and Football by Simon Martin in which it was recounted that one member of the Italian delegation decided that the team would wear an all-black outfit which was most disagreeable to a contingent of ex-partisan Italians who at that time lived in Paris and had gone along to watch the match.

The Italians either wore the maglia nera in order to upset and distance themselves from the partisans in the crowd or in order to upset the French. Whose decision it was that lead them to wear something so 'provocative' is open to conjecture. I read that Glanville did not feel that Pozzo was a fascisti although I have no knowledge either way. In either event, footage of them wearing the all-black strip against France can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZImK5tzz7Y&mode=related&search=

Note: This video is removed from YouTube because of violation of terms of use. West Brom 4ever 06:32, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Goalscorers

Am troubleshooting goalscorer issues with Cris Freddi's CBWC06 (see 1950 talk for more). Best-researched known resource for all WCs. Mjefm 16:26, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zsengellér - 6 goals?

Under the 'Scorers' section it says that Zsengellér scored 6 goals, however if you add the goals he scored, it is 'only' five. The difference is on the Hungary vs. Sweden game, when Jacobsson's own goal is sometimes counted as Zsengellér's goal. FIFA.com counts it as Zsengellér's goal, so I think this should be changed. Gabute 11:39, 23 March 2008 (CET)