Talk:1924 Palace Law of Succession

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[edit] Use of Handley's biography used as major reference, and issues that result

This article relies heavily on Handley's biography of King Bhumibol, as it appears to be the only quality english-language work that provides details about the Palace Law. I wish there were other authoritative works that I could use as cross references, but I have found none to date. Patiwat 22:37, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why were Juthatutch/Chudadhuj Dharadilok/Jutatoot/เจ้าฟ้าจุฑาธุชธราดิลก's descendants disqualified?

One issue with Handley's otherwise fine work is that he notes that the descendants of 2 of Queen Saovabha's sons were disqualified from the succession, one because his mother was a maid, and another because his mother was a foreigner. The half-foreign prince is obviously Chula Chakrabongse, son of Chakrabongse Bhuvanath. The disqualification of half-foreign princes from the line of succession is clear from the law passed by King Vajiravudh - he could have repealed it, but he didn't. But who was the prince who was the son of a maid? Presumably Varananda Dhavaj/Waranonthawach/Waranonthawat/พระองค์เจ้าวรานนท์ธวัช, only son Juthatutch/Chudadhuj Dharadilok/Jutatoot/เจ้าฟ้าจุฑาธุชธราดิลก. But was Waranonthawat's mother really a "maid", as Handley calls her? His mother was Boonjirathorn Chumphon/หม่อมเจ้าหญิงบุญจิราธร ชุมพล, who in turn was daughter of Chumphonsomphot/พระองค์เจ้าชุมพลสมโภช (son of King Rama IV) and หม่อมบุญยืน (grand-daughter of the เจ้าเมือง of Ubonratchathani). Boonjirathorn Chumphon wasn't a maid, even though her bloodline wasn't that inbred/royal - regardless, she wasn't really a commoner either. Regardless, it appears that Vajiravudh specifically disqualified the entire bloodline of the Jutatoot bloodline from the throne for marrying with "commoners." Could somebody explain this particular issue? Patiwat 22:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Note: the above details come from the Thai wikipedia. Unfortunately, the Thai wikipedia is a joke, because editors almost never cite their sources. Patiwat 22:41, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

• I figured it out. Waranonthawat is not the son of Boonjirathorn Chumphon. He was son of Rawee Kaiyanon, a commoner, and quite probably, a maid. His father had no legitimate children with his official royal blooded wife. Patiwat 00:06, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification

Does this mean that Thailand effectively has male primogeniture, but that the ruling monarch may at her or his discretion decide to appoint another person of royal blood to be his or her successor? —Nightstallion (?) 18:38, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

• Essentially, yes. The law relies on male primogeniture, but also says that it can be amended solely by the King, i.e., without having to go through the parliamentary process. So effectively, the King can appoint anybody, of any sex, he wants. Patiwat 23:17, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

  Okay, thanks! How likely is it that the current king would introduce reforms to make it gender-equal primogeniture? —Nightstallion (?) 06:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

  Highly unlikely, given that he's had the constitutional right to do so for the past few decades, but hasn't bothered doing it. Sorry for the late response. Patiwat 12:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

  No problem, and thanks! —Nightstallion (?) 19:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)