Talk:1896 Ottoman Bank Takeover
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[edit] Comment
The article is worded in a biased way. I'm going to clean it up so that it conforms to a more neutral point of view. Augustgrahl
[edit] To "85.107.68.118"
If you think that the article is biased or inaccurate, please discuss why. Leaving comments that are disparaging of certain ethnic groups can be seen as vandalism and will be deleted accordingly. So, if you believe that this article needs attention, please bring it up in a more appropriate, productive manner. -- Augustgrahl 23:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Killings
I think kidnapping, murder, and extortion qualify as "criminal", and the Armenian Patriarch of Constantinople agreed. NYT: "The party of 40 men who yesterday forced their way into the Ottoman Bank, killing the gendarmes who were on guard at the entrance...."[1] I'd like to do more research, when I have time.DBaba 02:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
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- Whatever the patriach said is his opinion (which needs to be verified anyway since the NY times article is something you buy) and has nothing to do with how wikipedia should describe the takeover. And why do you keep deleting the info on the ARF success in getting European attention and also the referenced letter from the European powers to Hamid II? Also, it is important to note that there was no intentional harm done to bank personnel and that nothing was stolen from the vault so we see the group remained loyal to its intention, which was to make an impact and dictate their demands to Europe. - Fedayee 04:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh, also, please, cite anything in dispute! Don't just insist, and don't give me Armenica contradicting the New York Times as legit. I'm interested, and I'm listening.DBaba 02:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
- I just saw your edits. I am interested as well, and I would like to take a better look at your source. Please send me a copy of this article by e-mail since I don't want to create an account and buy the article in question. Thanks in advance. -- Davo88 04:20, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
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- How do I send a PDF through Wikipedia? Thanks in advance for the shameless double standard!
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- I'd hate for you to have to access the document on your own and create an account when I can go to work for you. Though, do me a favor and tell Fed why the slaughter of 4,000 innocents can't properly be deemed "success"; tell him his source has as much trouble with its facts as it does with its spelling; and tell him that a rational, adult mind would determine that the attention of European powers was probably trained on the wholesale slaughter of Christian peoples, rather than a forgettable, ill-considered, BLOODY terrorist operation that he's apparently bent on reforming into an act of chivalry. Meanwhile, the kidnapper-killer-bombers remain clean of "criminal"ity, whereas the looting-raping-killing remains "savage" without objection.DBaba 06:29, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
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- First please be civil with your comments about "rational adult mind". You don't need to insult me by asking a third person to explain to me what you believe in, you can do it yourself. How the hell can a random wikipedian verify that NY times article? You're supposed to create an account and buy it. As Davo said you can send it to him via email easily, with your own email account, doesn't have to be through wikipedia. Anyway if you seem to know that savage, bloody, criminal are all POV words, then why do you add them in the first place? You should've left "criminal bloody" off as much as the word "savage". Getting back to the event, the Dashnaks purpotrated the event as a response to the 100 000 Armenians killed during the Hamidian massacres. The entire point of it was to get European attention, to get in favour with them so they send aid the Armenian vilayets within the Ottoman Empire. Why on earth would they harm the European bank personnel if they wanna get in favour with them. I am not saying Turkish soldiers/guards did not die, as a matter of fact they did in the initial shootout (where 9 of the attackers also died including Papken Syuni). Nothing was stolen from the vault which is a fact or else it would've been reported, same goes if they killed any hostages. You are entitled to your opinion if you consider the act a "forgettable, ill-considered, BLOODY terrorist" one. After the surrender, a few thousand more Armenians were killed as you know. The operation got initial European attention which was what the Dashnaks wanted but thousands of Armenians were killed as a retaliation for the attack and also, European help failed to materialize. I do not see why we cannot add that nothing was stolen from the vault which is what bank takeover are usually for no? It's important to note that there were no reported deaths of hostages (unless otherwise proven) which hasn't been reported either. It is also important to mention if the ARF succeeded in its goal is it was the perpetrator. And the insulting letter to the sultan was not added by me, but we all know that Europe condemned the killing of the Armenians after the bank event and it was sourced so what it is highly likely. - Fedayee 20:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
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Please remain civil, as factual as those words are, they have an emotive context to them - something Wikipedia as I have stated before, avoids. Use your print screen when viewing the PDF file on your desktop, copy + paste it onto Microsoft Paint (or Word) and save it to your desktop as a bitmap file. That way, we'll be able to view it and you can send it to us.--MarshallBagramyan 04:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Terrorism?
Mustapha Akalp, please show me a non-partial source that calls the 1896 Ottoman Bank Takeover an act of terrorism. -- Davo88 14:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Encyclopedic:
- X is on the U.S. Department of State's "Designated Foreign Terrorist Organizations" list.
- X, identified by the Y government as responsible for the Z suicide bombings [or "who claimed responsibility for the Z suicide bombings"], is classified as a terrorist group by A, B and C [countries or bodies].
- Countries A, B and C regard X as a terrorist group [because...]
Not encyclopedic:
- X is a terrorist group.
- Y, leader of the X terrorists, ...
- After a rapid military response, the X terrorists abandoned the hostages.
Anyway that Category is up for deletion too. - Fedayee 18:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Aftermath
A massacre of Armenians took place in the town of Egin, because it was the birthplace of Papken Siuni. Something should be mentioned of that fact, if someone has accurate details of the casualties and dates. Meowy 03:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Thanks. BTW, I've changed the word "city" to "town" where you used it to describe Egin - it was never big enough to be called a city. Meowy 22:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Barbarians
Could you expect a better reaction from a Barbarian Nation with their Barbarian Leaders? Armenians have been Part of the Ottoman Empire but Turks Rejected the christian Nations. So which Nations are the most Racist in this world? I think that they are USA, Turkey and Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.73.95.1 (talk) 10:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
