User talk:130.79.243.163

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[edit] Moved from Talk:Great Fire of Smyrna

and for the record my name is not fictive and yes i am currently in Strasbourg, France (dont trust IP addresses as proxies are not hard to find). - Erchan Aptoula
T'es d'ou alors? Erchan n'est pas un nom très turc.. Besides, avoid pasting comments that have nothing to do with the article. They can be removed to the appropriate article talk pages. Thank you. Baristarim 20:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Je viens de Xanthi, Grece. Le nom etait un nom turc, mais les autorités grecques n'etaient pas tres d'accord avec sa version initiale, et ont decidé de le modifier. Your are right, i dont frequent much in wikipedia anyway. i just wanted to make a point. thats all. - erchan aptoula
Ok then :) So is it Ercan? All I was trying to say was that this article is a mess as it is and, because of this, is an ideal ground for further POV disputes. + this leads to additional off-topic disputes in this talk page. That's all. Hmm.. Maybe I will add this to the coop bard's tasks list. By the way, you should get a user name - will be easier to contribute to Wikipedia. Baristarim 21:08, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
the original "untampered" version is Erhan. And yes, i should get a username, but then again I also need to find the time to contribute. cest difficile quand on a une these a faire. take care - erhan
I don't think it's fair then to claim that the Greek authorities "modified" your name because they "disagreed" with the Turkish version. I can think of no other way to write Erhan in Greek than Ερχάν, and Erchan is obviously the product of the transliteration of Greek to the Latin alphabet of the initial transcription of your Turkish name on your Greek birth certificate. Greeks face similar problems abroad as their transliterated names often do not reflect their pronunciation in Greek. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 21:46, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Guys, please, English. There is absolutely no need to discuss the fact that Erchan is a Turk from Western Thrace in French. The policy of exterminating Christians did not last for 6 centuries, but was started by the Young Turk government in 1915 and was continued by it's successors. There is numerous evidence for this in Western and other archival sources. Your mention of the Malta Tribunal is a red herring-- Talaat, Enver and many others were tried and sentenced to death by a Turkish court in Constantinople following the resolution of WWI. There was tremendous evidence to convict them, and this is preserved in Ottoman newspapers, which can be found in the various archives of Israel and other Middle Eastern countries. Obviously, Turkey does not allow these gazettes to be acessed from its own archives.

It is ironic, Baristarim, that earlier you accused me of being paranoid. Now you accused a Greek-Turk posting from France as being myself. It is clear who is being ridiculously paranoid, and furthermore who is trying to supress correct information for the sake of nationalism. -John Kritivic

Thanks for your contributions, John. You might like to consider registering as a user, as anonymous IP edits tend not to be taken seriously, I'm afraid. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 21:50, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
thank you john. finally someone recognizes my turkish origin, while the greek government continues to deny it (and still violates the treaty of lausanne for the last 90 years).
The alleged policy of the young turks apparently has failed since there were very serious numbers of people that were interchanged after the war...not to mention the high number of armenians that moved to france via syria after WW1. If a policy of such a massive scale was in place i really do not think that only a certain region would be affected by it? or was it really maybe just a deportation?
As to enver and talat they were effectively in charge of affairs in their time, along with cemal and as such the western media was more than quick, as expected to point the finger to them as responsible s for the alleged genocide. The court of which you speak took place after istanbul had been seized by western forces. I can imagine the impartiality and objectivity of a court controlled by invading forces. As to their death..Talat assasinated in berlin and enver shot in turkistan. despite all this "numerous evidence" that you mention still no armenian authority has applied to international authorities and instead continue to actively press on individual governments. -erchan
Whatever, your edits wreak of extreme POV. The way you are interpreting sources clearly breaks WP:OR. "Turks began to question their nationalist narrative in schools"? Wikipedia is not a forum.. Baristarim 22:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
You are seriously messing up the article, as if it is not already. "this proved the genocidal intent of Turks" is your interpretation and breaks POV. Just the leave the article as is, your edits show much more POV then anything.. Baristarim 22:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
by the way Kekrops can you explain to me how exactly you convert abdullah to aptoula with greek letters because i tried...i really tried and i cant find a logical explanation besides the obvious one...quite common in our region too. - erchan
Would you have preferred Ampntoullach? Actually, Aptoula is probably the closest possible transcription of the Turkish pronunciation of an Arabic name. If the Greeks wanted to Hellenise your name they would've just opted for a Greek one, don't you think? And you're in France now; what's stopping you from reverting to the "proper" spelling? ·ΚέκρωΨ· 05:03, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Hoca, isminin baskasi tarafindan degistirilmesi birsey de, o degismis ismi kullanan birine de rastlamamistim su ana kadar. Oyle yazmislarsa oyle yazsinlar, niye hala dogru sekliyle imzalamiyorsun ki? :) Baristarim 22:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
hoşuma gitse de gitmese de pasaportumda kimligimde ve her resmi belgede yer alan isim bu. kullanimina gelince..bir nevi protesto olarak dusun. hele de bu tür ortamlarda. bana musaade burada geç oldu. - erhan
Ok.. Eger Normandiya taraflarina dogru gelirsen haber ver... Madem ki Fransa'da da yasiyorsun, buralara yolun duserse not atmayi unutma :) Cheers! Baristarim 23:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
sağol barış. aynı şekilde alsace tarafına uğrarsan haber et. google dan ad soyadımı yazarak kolayca mail adresime ulaşabilirsin. kolay gelsin - erhan

So how are you guys going to respond when it becomes illegal to deny the Genocide in France? Will your posts here also be illegal? I am unaware of the details of the legislation. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 04:34, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally, i dont believe it will ever pass through the senate. Probably just a scheme to gather votes. As to my name, do you honestly think they have the right to modify it as they do? If you consider it just a "mild" case i can easily find more shocking examples even just from my old neighborhood. You have to evaluate this within a bigger context. Let's be fair, the situation in western thrace has improved since the 1990s, mainly thanks to the pressures applied by the EU. From a point where we could not get driving licences, sell land between us...things have improved. But still a lot remains to be done to reach at least the level already granted by the lausanne treaty.
By the way, I might be in France at the moment, but still as a greek citizen and I do not intend to change that. - erhan.
I'm not following you. The official alphabet in Greece is the Greek alphabet, whether you like it or not. Hence, if you are a Greek citizen, your name will be registered with the authorities in the Greek alphabet. The Greeks of Turkey must also register their names according to Turkish spelling rules, n'est-ce pas? And speaking of minority rights, Greece has tended to respect the spirit and the letter of the Lausanne Treaty far more than its neighbour. While the size of the Muslim minority of Thrace has remained stable over the decades, the Greek minority of Turkey has practically disappeared. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 07:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok, no need to go there :) Well, in response to your first question, I don't think that it will pass either. What has always annoyed me is the politicization of the issue. You know, the French aren't setting a great example either. France has been going down hill for a while, and not only because of the law and all. I thought that this article was pretty interesting [1] :) And next there will be Sarkozy, a guy who is not even French!! Funny thing is, apparently his mom and Ataturk's family (my maternal grandfather as well) were from the same city. Maybe he will be nicer on the Turks when things come around for old time's sake, eh? (!) For once I would like to simply talk about the issues historically without any political overtones. But I suppose that it is not easy either... Well, soon there will be the European Union + the already globalized world, so I don't think that any "divisions" will be any important any more. One can hope! Baristarim 08:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Btw Erhan, if I ever get around to Alsace one of these days, I will let you know! So how is life in Strasbourg? Here in Normandy it does nothing else but rain!! Baristarim 08:10, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I have nothing against the greek alphabet, its the modifications they introduce that bug me. You dont need to go back that far, in january 1988 quite similar events took place in gümülcine or komotini, though in smaller numbers. while you refer to them as greeks of turkey, it is still prohibited to me to refer to myself as a turk while in greece. The size of the western thrace minority would have been even larger, if greek authorities didnt just expel from citizenship the thousands that visited turkey for more than 3 months during the 1980s. Only recently did they grant back their citizenship to a minimal portion of them...after the EU had learned about it.
Life in strasbourg...damn cold. today -1 degrees + 93% humidity..it can really shock you. besides that, all students have deserted the city for the holidays..it reminds more of a ghost town lately. - erhan
Stop distorting the facts. Calling yourself a Turk, a Mongol, a Martian or anything else is not prohibited in Greece. The Greek state's non-recognition of a "Turkish" minority is another issue, which mostly has to do with the fact that half of Thrace's Muslims are not of Turkish origin, while Turkey claims the minority in its entirety. I'm sorry, but complaining about Greek spelling and elusive driving licences seems quite absurd to me when the Turks have succeeded in ridding themselves of the millennia-old Greek presence in what is now Turkey. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 08:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
the fact is that me and 150 thousand more call themselves turks in the same region..and in my opinion it's the same issue. When it comes to ethnic cleansing, im no historian, but consider the higher percentage of preservation of historic buildings (churches etc) in anadolu or anatolia, while everything related with turkish presence is or has been already cleared out of the balkans (bridges, mosques, etc). If there is or has been a cleansing attempt, its results are also quite distinguishable at this side of meric or evros. -erhan
You might want to cite a source for that figure. Still, that's 150,000 "Turks" in Greece compared to how many Greeks left in Turkey? I'm talking about people here, not historical sites that bring in the tourist dollars. It's the Greeks themselves you had a problem with, not their architectural legacy which has proved most profitable for Turkey. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 08:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I would want to, if greek authorities ever announced demographic data on this topic. It still continues to be a taboo subject in Greece. I made the remark on sites to give an example of the dominant attitudes. Getting rid of a people and leaving their monuments makes as much sense as treating them equally while destroying or defacing all they have built. For the record i have no problems with Greeks, i have several excellent Greek friends both in Turkey and Greece. I do however have a seious problem with racists...like those that left this leaflet to my house a few months ago (http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1710/b1ss1.jpg). - erhan
No one denies that the Muslims of Thrace have suffered from racism and discrimination in Greece, whether they identify as Turks or not. But the predicament of the Greeks of Turkey has been much worse. In any case, I wouldn't take such an amateurish and poorly spelled leaflet too seriously. Probably just some bored teenagers with nothing better to do. It would be serious if there were actual physical attacks on Muslims like there were on the Greeks of Istanbul. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 09:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I can affirm that their vast majority does identify itself as being of Turkish origin, as I have spent most of my life in the region. I am also aware of the events of Istanbul of '55 and condemn them. I do not share however your view that we just get along much easier than them. Physical attacks have and are taking place in western Thrace, though they have decreased substantially in the last decade. I recall several occasions of them by personal experience. While it was much worse during the 1980s (maybe i should become a member to start a page especially on the life of dr. sadık ahmet, an important figure of that period, it exists in the german wiki), with an important increase again during the kardak or imia crisis in the mid 1990s.
Considering the present situation, political and bureaucratic attacks or limitations are more frequented, as the EU now watches more closely the situation. Nevertheless, as the majority of the minority is undereducated, (yes, we have to learn turkish from greek teachers, no teacher allowed from Turkey, and schools are tightly controlled..cant quite say the same about the schools of istanbul), assimilation efforts do continue (changing the demographic balances by inviting Russian immigrants of Greek origin to Thrace, etc). Im not debating something that might have taken place in the past or its correctness...this is the present, and it infuriates me to see that no one gives a **** about it while the past is so elaborately disputed. Then again we are just Muslims. Like those in Iraq, or Azerbaycan, or Bosnia, etc. Besides what can you expect in a world where entire wars are justified on false claims with hundreds of thousands of casualties. - erhan

This is an interesting discussion. If we really want to start comparing the situation of the Greek minority in Turkey with that of the Turks in Greece, it appears that Greece has been very generous. Especially in the field of education: Greeks have to fund their own schools in Turkey, whereas in Greece, it's the Greek taxpayer who forks over most of the cash for the Turkish language education. Changing demographic balance? Yes, Greece does settle Greek immigrants from the former Soviet Union in Greece (many of whom found themselves in the SU in the first place by fleeing from the genocide being inflicted on them in Turkey). This brings us to the turkish method - genocide - although it seems they have been making progress. They have been using the Greek method on Cyprus except with one minor difference: the Greek authorities were perfectly entitled to give Greek refugees (ultimately to save themselves from a genocide by Turkey) permission to settle in Thrace, whereas Turkey was legally barred from colonizing Cyprus, but did it anyway. //Dirak 11:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad that you mentioned that. According to the treaty of Lausanne as well as the cultural protocols signed by both countries in 1951 and 1968, the Turkish minority of western Thrace has the exclusive right to regulate and control its own educational and religious affairs. And now back to reality...the Greek ministry of Education and Religious affairs is in total control of the few and overcrowded schools..from the choice of books, their content, the teachers, even to their repairment. And dont think for a moment that education is free in these schools. Fees are paid regularly each year by the parents. As my father and all the parents of my classmates had paid them. Even the secondary school of Iskeçe or Xanthi, which is officially private, is regulated in the same way. Turkish is taught by people educated just for 2 years in an institute of Thessaloniki and can bearly speak it themselves. As to the religious affairs i suppose you are aware of the fact that the Greek State insists on not recognizing our chosen leaders (like the recently deceased Mehmet Emin Aga) and instead places its own puppet to this position. Furthermore, if the Greeks were in Russia because they fled from a genocide, i do not know. But during my discussions with them, it was never mentioned. - erhan
The Treaty of Lausanne grants the community the right to manage its own religious affairs. I hear that the muftis however play an important role in issues such as family disputes and inheritance disputes! Are those religious affairs in modern Europe? Food for thought -- I do wonder however why the Turkish authorities don't recognize the status of the Ecumenical Patriarch. They should lead by example... Pes mu tora, tin kseris tin elliniki glossa i mas dulevis tora? //Dirak 11:52, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Religious as well as educational matters. Muftis play a crucial role in the religious affairs of the Turkish minority. The family disputes that you speak of are isolated cases triggered by uneducated people that are unaware of their civil rights (the reason of their state is certainly plenty of food for thought dont you think?), and these cases are apparently exagerated by the media just in order to justify their claims. The truth however remains that we have the right to choose our leader and cannot exercise it. And since you asked, yes I do know the Greek language, thanks to the efforts of the Greek State, which takes it (very) seriously to teach us Greek..too bad i cannot say the same for my mother tongue. As to the Patriach matter, if all the other ortohodox churches recognize him as Ecumenical, they by all means he is Ecumenical. It is clearly an affair within the church...just as long as they do not demand later on a vatican-like state. - erhan
I've never understood why a Vatican-style state would be such a threat to Turkey. Anyway... Your sarcasm in regards to your knowledge of the Greek language is telling. The main problem of the Muslim minority is their lack of proficiency in Greek, which only leads to further isolation and disadvantage. You make it sound like they shouldn't be taught Greek at all, only Turkish, even if, as in the case of the Pomaks and the Roma, it isn't even their mother tongue. The politics of segregation. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 12:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
And I have never understood why the center of Orthodox Christianity needs to remain there. Why not take it to Moscow or Athens and be free to make a Vatican-style state of whatever they desire. Certainly Istanbul is of historical importance, but i mean this is like keeping an Islamic center in Athens ?! My sarcasm was apparently interpreted erroneously. I can assure you personally that the minority speaks much better Greek than Turkish, due mainly to the lack of decent education of Turkish, and as a matter of fact lack of decent education in general in minority schools (recall that they are controlled by the Greek State). Which naturally makes more and more parents send them to public greek schools (is the technique clear now ?) and hence not provide them with a decent cultural education. Of course the obvious countermeasure is to go to Turkey and study there, but then again there is no way that Greece will recognize your degree. I alone know several engineers that became either farmers or merchants in Thrace due to this situation.
Obviously, if you live in Greece you have to be able to speak Greek, same applies for anywhere else. And I firmly believe that the Greek State accomplishes this task more and more efficiently. But then again Greece also has the responsibility to adhere to : "protect the existence and the national or ethnic, cultural, religious and linguistic identity of minorities within their respective territories and shall encourage conditions for the promotion of that identity".
Politics of segregation? Certainly. Specific to Greece? Not at all. There is plenty of them in Turkey too, due mainly to the misunderstanding of Kemalistic principles. What is bothersome however is that Turkey is constantly on the spotlight as a human rights violator while Greece gets largely away with it, while being a member of the EU. - erhan
Is that the next step? First you expel the Greek community, now you want to expel the Patriarchate too? And then you have the gall to preach about minority rights? What a joke. And pray tell, why shouldn't the Greek state promote proficiency in the official language above all others? That is its primary responsibility vis-à-vis its citizens' education: facilitating their ability to function in the language of the society in which they live, not that of a foreign country. The "cultural education" of which you speak is secondary, and already catered for rather excessively in my view. I would rather see Greece's Muslim citizens fully integrated into Greek society, even if their "cultural education" has to suffer. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 13:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
That is no step. It is my personal view and based on the logic assumption that the center of a religion should be in a country representative of that religion. Why do you continue to think that I dont want anyone to learn Greek? I wrote it clearly if you live in Greece you have to be able to speak Greek, same applies for anywhere else please read my posts before commenting on them. - erhan
And yet the minority's proficiency in Greek lags behind the rest of the population. That issue needs to be addressed before any other, as it is the main hindrance to their full participation in Greek society. A first step would be to abolish compulsory instruction in Turkish, at least for the Muslim Pomaks and Roma, as it stunts their linguistic development both in Greek and in their own mother tongue. The judicial powers of Muslim clerics in matters of family law must also be abolished, as they only serve to oppress Muslim women and children; such an absurdity would be unthinkable even in Turkey. Greece isn't an Islamic state! ·ΚέκρωΨ· 13:24, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Their Greek is no better than that of other farmers up on the Pindos mountains :) ..I agree to that. But saying it's because they learn Turkish too...that's a joke man and you know it. The fact is that the minority certainly does not fully participate in society...i mean in all my years in Thrace i have never seen for example a police officer of Turkish origin ;) . Thrace is also undoubtedly the economically poorest region of our country..the vast majority of the minority consists of either farmers or workers in construction sites. This is a serious social problem. At its root I consider insufficient access to education. You think they enjoy working 12 hours a day on the field ? They or rather we want our children too to be educated. but look at the choices 1) go to a greek public school, get deprived of any cultural or religious education, and if you are bright enough try to cope with primary education in a language other than your mother tongue 2) go to a private minority school and get no decent education and thus no access to higher education 3) go to Turkey (easier access as country) and get a decent education and return to be confronted with an unrecognized degree 4) go to another country...but who has that kind of money in Thrace?..(except if you get a scholarship).
As i previously wrote, the Mufti does not of course have any judicial powers. Those that do apply to him within this context are people unaware of the fact that there exists an establishent for this type of matters...simply because they werent taught that it exists. For the same reason no Greek citizen of Turkish origin ever applies to the EU establishments on matters of human rights etc. You see it serves them pretty well to keep us in this state. This is no original technique. Anyhow, the media is more than ready to exploit such cases of mostly illitirate people in order to justify their claims. As i said previously the truth however remains that we have the right to choose our leader and cannot exercise it.
As to Pomaks, you refer to them as non-Turks. I refer to them as Turks that were in the region before the arrival of Ottomans. Some refer to them as descendants of the Macedons (yes..i have seen that too)..it's an open issue. The main problem remains..Thrace is suffering both socially and economically..and i dont see any improvement soon. - erhan
Και η λύση για σένα ποια είναι; Η συνεχής αμφισβήτηση της ελληνικής κυριαρχίας με απώτερο στόχο την προσάρτηση της Θράκης στη «μητέρα» Τουρκία, μήπως; ·ΚέκρωΨ· 14:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
No, as Atatürk said, Yurtta sulh cihanda sulh. No need for imperialism. Personally I find the treaty of Lausanne quite satisfying. And since it was signed by both countries, for starters both of them should try to conform to it. I'm by no means a sociologist or a politician to develop a full scaled solution. But i'm not blind either. the problem is there and by each generation it gets only worse. - erhan

Your implication that a cultural or religious education can only be obtained in a publicly-funded school puzzles me. I know plenty of Greeks of the diaspora who have never relied on the public education system of the countries in which they live to teach them their ancestral language and culture. Do Turkish taxpayers have to foot the bill for Greek children to learn to be Greeks in Turkey? ·ΚέκρωΨ· 14:17, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Apperently your are puzzled because I have probably not made myself clear. I wrote just above 1) go to a greek public school, get deprived of any cultural or religious education, and if you are bright enough try to cope with primary education in a language other than your mother tongue in other words the contrary of what you imply. According to the UN both Turkey and Greece have the responsibility to preserve the cultural identity of their minorities...do they do it thats another matter...i wish all countries would conform to that but thats a rather idealistic wish in today's world. Considering the present situation, we dont expect the Greek government to teach us Turkish.
Rather, what I want to underline is that we, as the Turkish minority, are more than eager to regulate our own education, to which we have the right according to the treaty of Lausanne. Since the Greeks of Istanbul have their private schools where they teach their children as they see fit, why not we ? We already pay anyhow for our children's education..why not let us in charge? thats the whole deal. - erhan
So what does "2) go to a private minority school and get no decent education and thus no access to higher education" mean? You're contradicting yourself. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 14:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
One more misuderstanding..there i refer to education in general, not just linguistics, culture or religion. Otherwise i would have included cultural education. The lack of quality teachers and material is the reason of this inferior education provided by these establishments. And that is why they do not succeed the panellinies and hence the youth cannot escape their economic and social fate (e.g farmer, worker, etc). In the past, teachers as well as teaching material came from Turkey..but not since a long time. - erhan

To my knowledge general international law does not impose an obligation on states to cough up cash to teach anyone a foreign (i.e. a language different to the official language of the state in question) language, nor to grant visas to foreigners. Such obligations derive from other sources, in the cases of Greece and Turkey the Lausanne Treaty (I don't know about Turkey, but Greece hasn't ratified the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities and hasn't even signed the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages). Greece adheres fully to the Lausanne Treaty (and the last to complain should be Turkey - remember the words of Isa SAW about only him without sin throwing the first stone). According to most observers the Lausanne Treaty does "protect the existence and the national or ethnic, cultural, religious and linguistic identity of minorities within their respective territories and shall encourage conditions for the promotion of that identity". So, what do you want? The minority is only about 100,000 people, who is going to pay for what you are proposing? It's not as if the Thrace minority is the same situation as the 1,5 million strong Hungarian minority of Romania. Why should the majority have to pay for the minority to learn a foreign (as far as they are concerned) language. The Thrace minority is roughly 1.5% of Greece's population; why don't you propose that for the 20% Kurdish population of Turkey? I'm certain that the Kurds generate enough cash to run their own schools. "Someone" just won't let them. //Dirak 14:50, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. The Greek state pays for these children to learn Turkish, and people like Erhan still complain. Perhaps Greece needs to reassess its education policy vis-à-vis the minority. I propose abolishing Turkish-language and religious (whether Christian or Muslim) education in the Greek public school system altogether. After all, the lack of instruction in their mother tongue has never stopped countless Albanians, Bulgarians and others from excelling in Greek schools. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 14:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
I think Erhan is complaining too much. He shows off his French, but he has yet to utter a single word in Greek so that we can evaluate it and see how effective the minority schools are. They seem to be pretty effective in teaching French. Έλα ρε Ερχάν, δυο λογάκια πες μας, ακόμα και με το λατινικό αλφάβητο αν θέλεις, όπως κάνουν οι ελληνόφωνοι μουσουλμάνοι του Πόντου (αλήθεια, η τουρκική κυβέρνηση πότε θα τους ανοίξει σχολεία;). //Dirak 15:05, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
International law ? What the treaty of Lausanne imposes is that we, as the minority get to control our own educational and religious matters. And as i have already stated multiple times whet we demand is not a State that will make sure that our children will learn Turkish, as it is obliged to, but rather to let us take care of it as we have the right to. We already have the necessary schools and funding. And this is what i want Dirak, since you asked it so openly. As to the illusion that Greece adheres fully to the Lausanne Treaty come on..already a list can be made from previous posts and it can grow still more.
As to the education of Turkish in schools, i'm not talking about something that i read somewhere this is something i saw and lived through. That education has started to be provided only in the last few years and is realised by teachers incapable of speaking Turkish themselves. It all makes you think as if "someone" is just trying to avoid accusation from the EU while also not teaching anyone anything and garding the status quo. As to the Kurdish population, they have the right to learn their mother tongue at least as much as we do. Ours is additionally protected and reinforced by the aforementioned treaty. They have in fact the inverse problem, as the majority of the Kurdish population in the south east of the country does not speak Turkish.
Moreover, as to the countless Albanians and Bulgarians excelling in Greek education, that you refer to, I never said that the Greek (general not cultural) education is bad, on the contrary, they are much better than their minoritarian counterparts in this regard for the aforementioned reasons. The problem is that they lack decent cultural and linguistic education that needs to be provided by Turkish teachers, preferably in private schools, as it was in the past. The Bulgarians and Albanians might not mind the lack of this element, but we do and it is us that involves the Lausanne Treaty. Let me put it more clearly, this is not a request for special treatment, but rather a request that you let us exercise the rights to which you agreed. I know several students of Turkish origin that excel too, despite unfortunately the often discouraging efforts of their teachers in this regard.
I have not written french, except when addressed to in that way. And since when requesting your legal rights is complaining ? Min avisixis gia ta ellinika mou Dirak, kai signomi gia tin orthografia alla den exo elliniko pliktrologio. Oson afora tous pontious, perimene prota na lithei to problima me tous kourdous, dioti opos to thesate me to paradeigma twn roumanwn, i protereotita anikei stous poliarithmous. - erhan