Talk:Říp Mountain

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Czech Republic, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to the Czech Republic. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the discussion.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

[edit] “Říp” name etymology?

“The name of the mountain [is of a pre-Slavic origin and] probably comes from the Germanic stem *rīp- which means ‘an elevation, a hill’.” — … such a “Germanic” stem does not exist! — — Who knows what “Říp” really stems from?? Univ. of Hamburg, Germany --80.171.20.87 14:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm no expert on Germanic languages, but I've added a reference for that claim. I tried to google out more, and found out that the Czech popular scientific magazine Vesmír had an article about the topic in their 6/1996 issue (see here: [1]). They do have some articles available on-line, but that particular one is accessible to subscribers only. I'm afraid I don't have any printed copy here, but perhaps someone else does. --- Sandius 12:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The article is already free to all, it says
Jméno Říp je původu předslovanského. Základem je germánské ríp (hora, vyvýšenina), které má latinskou paralelu ve slově rípa (břeh, svah, úbočí). Slované přejali jméno od zbytků germánských kmenů, popřípadě od německých kupců, pro které byla hora důležitým orientačním bodem při cestách do Prahy. Někteří jazykovědci odvozují původ jména až z ilyrsko-thráckého základu, ale tím se zabývat nebudeme. Zajímavější je, že po určitý čas se hora jmenovala Sankt Georgsberg. Tento německý název však vznikl v novější době, poté, co byla na vrchu postavena románská rotunda zasvěcená svatému Jiří.
My translation:
The name Říp is of preslavonic origin. Its root is Germanic "ríp" (mountain, hill), which has a latin parallel in a word "rípa" (bank, slope, hill-side). Slavic people took the name over from the remnants of Germanic tribes, or from German merchants, for whose the mountain was an important orientation point on their ways to Prague. Some linguists derive the origin of the name even from Illyrian-Thracian root but we will not deal with it. It is more interesting that the mountain was called "Sankt Georgsberg" for a certain period. This German name, however, was created in more recent times, after a romanesque rotunda of Saint George had been built here.
Miraceti 21:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

A bit linguistic matter: I guess, "Muhammad" in the saying "What Mecca is to Muhammad, Říp should be to a Czech!" should not be linked with Muhammad page but rather with the Muslim page because it quite probably refers to any Muslim, not just to Muhammad.

Please, compare it with an old Czech word "mohamedán" which means exactly the same as English "Muslim".

Then, I would translate the whole sentence as following: "What Mecca is to a Muhammad, Říp should be to a Czech!" Miraceti 15:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Don't forget that this saying was written in 1907 when no one there had a clue about subtleties of Islam. Pavel Vozenilek 16:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Nevertheless, I agree with Miraceti. This saying is probably really referring to a Muslim name Muhammad rather than the prophet Muhammad. I didn't realize this when writing the article. Updating now. Matt 07:47, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Please, don't forget that Turkey was a neighbour of Austrian-Hungarian empire at that time. Czechs knew very well in the beginning of 1920's who Muslims are, especially educated ones. Miraceti 22:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
I think opposite (someone had read catchy story about prophet and mislead city for a mountain) but I am not going to push it. Pavel Vozenilek 17:33, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

During my visit, I several times heard about the legend of "Grandfather Czech" (I believe is how I heard it) going to the top of Řip and saying something along the lines of, "This is the place where we will build our homeland." With the re-telling going on to say something along the lines of, "And the smart people kept going." I don't know if that re-telling from the legend is widespread enough to warrant inclusion, especially because of its self-deprecating nature, as I quite enjoyed my visit and would love to return and potentially even spend quite some time there. Igjeff 21:23, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

"This is the place where we will build our homeland." is according to the legend.
"And the smart people kept going." was told you as a joke, probably somebody assumed that you, American, would believe it. Miraceti 21:59, 3 May 2007 (UTC)