Talk:Íñigo Arista of Pamplona

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I have made a series of changes as separate edits:

1. correct relationship of Iñigo to Musà. This is simply correcting a mistake. There is no doubt about the relationship as Iñigo is explicitly called brother via the mother of Musà ibn Musà by the chronicler Ibn Hayyan, and is reported as such in every history book that covers the period. (e.g. the Menendez Pidal Historia de España, Lévi-Provençal's Histoire de l'Espagne musulmane, etc.)

2. regency. Ibn Hayyan reports the roles of Fortun and Garcia, and Fortun's death, while the embassy to Charlemagne is reported in a Frankish chronicle. J. Pérez de Urbel, "Lo viejo y lo nuevo sobre el origin del Reino de Pamplona" in Al-Andalus, XIX (1954), 1-30. Lévi-Provençal, E. and Emilio Garcia Gómez. "Textos inéditos del "Muqtabis" de Ibn Hayyan sobre los orígines del Reino de Pamplona". Al-Andalus. 19:295-315 (1954)

3. wife and daughter. Regarding the wife, see, for example, Thierry Stasser. "Consanguinity et Alliances Dynastiques en Espagne au Haut Moyen Age: La Politique Matrimoniale de la Reinne Tota de Navarre". Hidalguia. No. 277: 811-39 (1999) speculates that the wife of Iñigo was probably a member of the family that gave rise to the later counts of Aragon, and was perhaps named Tota. Christian Settipani, La Noblesse du midi carolingien, Occasional Publiucations of the Unit for Prosopographical Research, Vol. 5. shows two 13th century chronicles giving the two names, Tota in one, Oneca in the other. He uses Tota in subsequent charts and speculates about her origin. Luiz Mello Vaz de São Payo. "A Ascendência de D. Afonso Henriques". Raízes & Memórias Nos. 2,3,4,5,6,7,8. calls her Oneca and has her as daughter of Valasco. José Maria Lacarra. "Textos navarros del Códice de Roda". Estudios de Edad Media de la Corona de Aragon. 1:194-283 (1945) discusses the genealogy of these families as well as all relevant documentation, but gives no named wife to Iñigo, which given the thoroughness of the study is of value if only through omission. As to "Nunila", Lacarra, "Textos navarros del Códice de Roda" shows the surviving source material, which does not name this daughter.

4. succession. Ibn Hayyan writing not long afterwards, explicitly states in his entry for 851/2 that Iñigo died and was succeeded by his son Garcia. Lévi-Provençal and Garcia Gómez. "Textos inéditos del "Muqtabis" de Ibn Hayyan"; Pérez de Urbel, "Lo viejo y lo nuevo". Jimeno does appear to have been prominant enough to have sent envoys to Charlemagne along with Iñigo, but that is the only historical reference to him, except in so far as his son's name, Garcia Jimenez, indicates that he was son of a Jimeno, (Pérez de Urbel, "Lo viejo y lo nuevo") and the latter is said to have held sway in "another part of the kingdom", (Lacarra, "Textos navarros del Códice de Roda"), suggesting either that the region had not consolidated into a single political entity yet, or that the Jimenez ruled as regional sub-kings. (Pérez de Urbel, "Lo viejo y lo nuevo"; Pérez de Urbel, "Jimenos y Velas en Portugal". Revista Portuguesa de História. 5:475-492 (1951)).

5. parentage and kinship. His patronymic comes from ibn Hayyan, Lévi-Provençal and Garcia Gómez. "Textos inéditos del "Muqtabis" de Ibn Hayyan"; Pérez de Urbel, "Lo viejo y lo nuevo". For examples of speculation regarding his origins and kinship, see Lacarra, "Textos navarros del Códice de Roda", Perez de Urbel and Ricardo del Arco y Garay. Espana Christiana: Comienzo de la Reconquista (711-1038). (Menéndez Pidal) Historia de Espana, vol. 6 (1964), and a different hypothesis for the origin of the Jimenez, Luiz Mello Vaz de São Payo. "A Ascendência de D. Afonso Henriques". For dating the marriage to Musa ibn Fortun, see Alberto Cañada Juste, "Los Banu Qasi (714-924)". Principe de Viana 41:5-95 (1980); Simon Hayak. "Los Banu Qasi". Boletin de la Asociacion Español de Orientalists 28:143-157 (1992).

Agricolae 01:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename

I have moved the page from Inigo I to Inigo Arista. The tradition among Iberian historians is to use ordinals for all kings of Asturias/Leon/Castile, Aragon, and Portugal, but for the Counties of Castile and Aragon, and particularly for Navarre to favor name/patronymic and to only number when both name and patronymic were the same. Thus the Counts of Castile are known as Fernan Gonzalez, Garcia Fernandez, Sancho Garces and Garcia Sanches - not Garcia I and Garcia II. In Aragon, Galindo Garces is not numbered, and you get Galindo Aznar I & II. In Navarre, the Garcias are Garcia Iniguez, Garcia Jimenez, Garcia Sanchez I, II & III, and Garcia Ramirez (the exception is with the Sanchos, who do tend to be numbered sequentially). When English writers began to refer to these individuals, they tried to apply ordinals, but this has only led to confusion as various authors used different systems, using different criteria from who to count and who not to count, but more followed the Spanish practice of leaving them unnumbered (hence king Garcia Ramirez gets ten times as many relevant hits as Garcia IV, Garcia V, Garcia VI, or Garcia VII, all of which have been used). This is seen with Arista, who some make Inigo I, while others call him Inigo II, making his father Inigo I, but most don't number him at all. Most consider him to be the only king named Inigo - the later Inigo currently numbered II in Wiki was probably never king at all. He only appears as such in a secondary entry in the Roda Codex, but this was likely translated from an Arabic source that was using a term more applicable to Count (or even chief) [see, for example, Martín Duque, Ángel J., Algunas Observaciones Sobre el Carácter Originario de la Monarquía Pamplonesa. Princípe de Viana. 63: 835-39 (2002) on the nature of the original 'kingdom'. A 'king' Sancho Iniguez can also be found in other Arabic sources, as can a 'prince' Garcia who is distinct from the other Garcias, and in fact Garcia Jimenez was probably not king either]. The exception to patronymic usage is Inigo Arista, a name as distinctive, unambiguous, and universally recognized among those familiar with Navarre as Alfred the Great is to England. His patronymic was only discovered within the past 50 years, and prior to that a different patronymic occasionally appeared from a late and untrustworthy chronicle, but most called him Inigo Arista. In summary, while it goes against the naming conventions for royalty, in this case that convention causes more confusion than it resolves, and forces an arbitrary choice of one among several conflicting naming conventions, while the established convention of historians is recognizable and unambiguous.

(This is not the only one I intend to move, so I would appreciate some discussion on a broader rename.) Agricolae (talk) 20:57, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

He's the first monarch of Pamplona. There's absolutely no reference to any father nor any other monarch of the city before him, as it was part of the Duchy of Vasconia, apparently.

I'd rather suggest naming as Eneko Haritza (or Aritza). Arista being just a Castilian deformation of the Basque name (meaning oak tree) and Iñigo being as well, the Castilian version of Basque name Eneko. We are talking of a Basque realm, where Castilian was never used before the 1512-21 invasion. --Sugaar (talk) 10:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Wiki naming does not follow actual history or the usage of the natives of the region where someone ruled, but common English usage. While there is no evidence whatsoever of Inigo's father other than his sons' patronymics found in Ibn Hayyan and al-Udri, the father is still called Inigo I by some English-language (and Castilian) historians, with Inigo Arista being Inigo II. Again, it may not be right, but I have seen it often enough that I think using any number for Inigo will confuse more than it will help, while presenting him without any number avoids the problem.

As to the name, we are not looking for the name that most accurately represents original usage or local usage, but rather the appropriate 'English' name. Hence Alfred the Great is Alfred, not Ælfræd. Paul of Russia is Paul, not Pavel (or Па́вел). For better or worse, the English-language historical tradition with regards to Spanish history derives from the Castilian-language historians, and not directly from the Basque. (This tendency is not specific to the Basques either - Castilian forms are the most common English usage for those in the Catalan-speaking realms of Aragon and Barcelona that do not have a true English equivalent). English-language Encyclopedias, compilations, histories, all use Inigo, and while Eneko may rarely get a parenthetical mention as the Basque version. It is the most common English form we are after, and rightly or wrongly, that is Inigo Arista. (For that matter, I would just as soon take out the accents, which are likewise not used in English.) Agricolae (talk) 05:14, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Inigo is not Íñigo, right? --Sugaar (talk) 19:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you are asking. If you are just asking what I intended (was I being lazy in not putting in diacriticals or accurately displaying the English usage), I would have to say that English usage predominantly uses Inigo, but some do use Iñigo (and this is becoming more common as it becomes easier to do mechanically) - I have never seen an English source using Íñigo. That being said, if you are asking in order to indicate that my argument favors Inigo (English) over Íñigo (Castilian), you won't get any arguments from me but someone went through a lot of effort to put in all the diacriticals, so presumably they feel strongly about them. Agricolae (talk) 20:25, 22 February 2008 (UTC)