User talk:Zleitzen/Tourism

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Hi Zletizen -- It should be noted, I believe, that the "apartheid" restrictions do not apply to members of the Nomenklatura who can and do circulate freely in the areas that are "off limits" for "ordinary" citizens. -- Polaris999 15:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to be sure you have seen this: http://www.opendemocracy.net/content/articles/PDF/1439.pdf which I found quite interesting. -- Polaris999 15:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much Polaris. That's a very perceptive article detailing some important factors that don't often get aired. Getting to the heart of the issue - seeing through the contradictions and paradoxes surrounding Cuba (and what I call the "blizzard of propaganda") - is near impossible, though this article makes a stern effort. Ironically the unpredictability of Cuban politics took another turn shortly after that article was written, when US payments from Cuban American families were halted by the Bush administration and the dollar was removed from circulation in Cuba.

What I'm doing on this page is as a result of problems elsewhere and a long backstory. Various "apartheid" articles appeared some time ago, apparently stemming from a few anti-Israeli editors' efforts to portray Israel/Palestine as a "state of apartheid". In reaction to this POV assault, which couldn't be deleted, pro-Israel editors scoured the media to find all other uses of the term. In the melee that ensued, this article "allegations of tourist apartheid in Cuba" was created. A few of the regulars on the Cuban articles expressed concerns that it was inherently POV, and largely false. But due to the nature of the article's title, there was no way to illustrate the context and full story behind this, nor neutralise the inference. So I recommended that it be merged with the Tourism in Cuba article to allow for a rounded view with deeper context. This was contested by the pro-Israel lobby - I wasn't really satisfied with their reasoning. So I plan to re-work the Tourism in Cuba page in such a way as to make the "allegations of tourist apartheid" article simply redundant. Just another episode in the endless disputes over the representation of a small island!--Zleitzen 02:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Zleitzen -- I think that your approach as outlined above is ideal. The term "tourist apartheid" seems nonsensical to me, although it is much used. IMO the situation surrounding tourism in Cuba is far too complex to be described by one overly simplistic term. -- Polaris999 02:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your draft

Hello Zleitzen -- I have just read this for the first time and am very impressed. You have done a superb job of achieving balance — all too often certain basic economic realities are not even mentioned when complaints are levelled against "tourist privileges" in Cuba. The statement by Castro that you cite re how much meat can be imported per "tourist night" sums it up perfectly. It is extraordinarily easy for "scholars" such as Gunn who have only academic knowledge of the economic dilemmas facing developing countries on a daily basis to make superficial criticisms, isn't it? -- Polaris999 01:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Polaris. What I intend to do is rewrite the lower half of the page (the allegations bit which was largely written by other editors) in the upper section at the top - with the aim of providing some context and background to the litany of criticisms. Any help is welcome!

There are numerous variables to be considered before one can significantly improve the neutrality and accuracy of the lower "allegations" section. Perhaps the most obvious is that the term "tourist apartheid" is a Anglo-construct. Thus when another user (who lives in Havana and took umbrage with the page) was asked to provide counter sources, they were simply not available due to the fact that all references to the term were English. The best I could find to add a bit of balance was the Fidel quotes. --Zleitzen 02:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you see: http://www.miami.com/mld/elnuevo/news/world/cuba/16032860.htm  ? -- Polaris999 22:33, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Polaris. That article exactly covers the issue in hand and will be put to good use - and it is current as well. The climate in Cuba can change quite rapidly, sometimes too quickly for the outside media so anything up to date on this subject is a bonus.--Zleitzen 00:23, 18 November 2006 (UTC)