Talk:Zephyr (graffiti artist)

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[edit] Notability

OK, so he's been in two films as himself. I dont dispute that. But as an actor he would not make Wikipedia. He's listed on here because he's a graffiti artist and, supposedly, an important one. Fine. But let's see the sources which show that. It doesnt work just saying that this is the case. If graffiti art is to be on here - and it should be - it has to be on here on the same terms as anything else artistic; ie. on the basis of verifiable merit. If graffiti art is allowed to skip the important verification aspect then it opens itself up to any old spam being added in it's name and to constant AfD's. Marcus22 16:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

• Andy Whitten is part of the group of original taggers who made the transition to galleries, collectors and commercial work of all types. Your comment about "actors" is not relevant. He was not appearing in these films as an actor. They were esssentially documentaries and he was appearing as himself, i.e. a leading graffiti artist at that time. If you want links to the IMDB pages, that can be easily provided, but it really looks like you are being pedantic. You need to be more specific about what kind of sources you are looking for, although I will say that edit warring over a "notability" tag and using a "cite" tag for every line in the article seems like bad faith and an abuse of tags. You would have shown good faith by explaining the use of the original tag -as required- and then leaving it off when I objected in order to allow me the time both to source and rewrite the article. --JJay 19:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
• Blimey. I wonder sometimes whether some editors only get on here at the end of a bad day. Whats with all the personal abuse and accusations JJay? Calm down and lets talk like adults or dont bother. i: How is a non-graffitiwise person to know that he appears in a film not as an actor? ii: I dont want links to the IMDB and why accuse me of pedantry? You know absolutely nothing at all about me. I want some sources to support the claims that he has produced art for the videos starring people who are indisputably famous. iii: Edit war??!? Look that up and think again. iv: "bad faith"??? Ever heard the phrase 'pot calling the kettle black'? In any case, you're just wrong v: I did explain the original tag; in the edit summary. I have also explained it on the graffiti art project page. (Which, unlike you who expects others to have a sixth sense, I did not expect you to know about; but it is there. So there goes another of your points). Now, all that said, please refrain from firing off again and why not provide the sources which the article needs? Easy huh? All the best Marcus22 20:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

• First off, there is absolutely no "personal abuse" in my comment above. Secondly, I am now going to remove the line related to music videos - since that seems to especially bother you. Third, I won't bother responding to any of your other comments since you seem to be here just to pick fights rather than source, write or edit the article in any way. As far as I'm concerned the "notability" tag can stay up permanently. All the best--JJay 20:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

• Whatever.. In any case you've removed the unsourced claims to notability and sourced those that are there. It looks and reads better for your efforts. It's up to others to decide whether or not Zephyr is sufficiently notable. I have no idea whether what is left is sufficent to establish that. Marcus22 13:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

• No, it's not up to others - that's simply passing the buck - since you placed the tag on this article and I strongly disagreed, but you didn't hesitate for two seconds to revert, despite my request for time to work on the article. You need to either explain why one of the leading old-school writers is not "notable" or remove the tag. I can't read your mind, particularly when you admit that you have "no idea" whether the subject is "notable" or not. As far as I'm concerned, for anyone familiar with the history of graffiti in NYC, the question wouldn't even be raised. Regarding the "unsourced claims to notability" - I removed an unsourced statement related to commercial work on music videos for some pop singers. If that's your basis for "notability", rather than say appearing as himself and doing the logo for the seminal film on the movement, or multiple quotes in the Times, or even being a recognized authority on graffiti through lectures and published works (check google [1], I think we inhabit two different worlds. --JJay 19:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

• Well you certainly live in a very angry one! Marcus22 19:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
• Addendum: Just checked your User page out - as I suspected you do indeed argue almost for a living it seems. No need for that JJay. Not on here. Give people a little more slack and maybe you'll find life less stressful. I know that will read bad but I do mean it well. Good luck etc.. for the future. Marcus22 19:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
• Addendum bis. you summed it up best above: "whatever", although I will say I have absolutely no interest in "checking out" your user page. I'm trying to build an article on one of the key figures in the history of NYC graffiti. If you ever develop an interest in participating, rather than lecturing, let me know. --JJay 19:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)