Talk:Zadar

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[edit] On re-joining Croatia after WWII

As far as I know zadar (at the time Zara) was part of Dalmatia county in the austrian part of the Austro-Hungaric empire, while Croatia was a separate region in the hungarian part.
Therefore I am a bit concerned wheter this statement is correct: "Afterwards it was joined again with Croatia (at the time in Yugoslavia)." (why again?) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.178.155.76 (talk • contribs) 14:39, 25 July 2005 (UTC).

There's no reason for an Italian name of the city. Latin is fine but not Italian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.131.139.48 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 24 July 2006 (UTC).
Zadar wasn't in the Austrian part in the times of Austro - Hungaric empire, Zadar was under Italy at those times, for quite a while, hence the "joined again with Croatia" part. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.198.129.19 (talk • contribs) 20:07, 13 October 2005 (UTC).
Britannica says: "The town was an Austrian possession from 1797 to 1920, except for a brief French interregnum between 1808 and 1813." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.22.31.2 (talk • contribs) 14:00, 11 November 2005 (UTC.
Zadar (and Dalmatia) were in the Austrian part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Dalmatia was one of the 15 Crownlands of the so-called "Cisleithania" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisleithania So, the text should not say "joined again" with Croatia. giordaano87.65.136.192 23:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Agree. Dalmatia and Croatia were different regions under the Austrians. (Moreover, at the time of the Empire, Dalmatia was much more a multi-ethnic and multi-cultural region than it is today) So, if there is not another explanation we should remove the "joined again". --Paolopk2 08:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit]  ?

You have written "In the 10th, and especially in the 11th century, although it survived the migration of Slavs, the rulers of the town were the Croats." It's false. Where does come this information from?
Zadar had been conquired by Hungarian Kingdom but it still had a large autonomy (as well as the other cities of the coast) and it has never been part of Croatia before 1947. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.6.216.8 (talk • contribs) 13:40, 25 September 2006 (UTC).

Croatia and Hungary were united in a personal union, union of two kingdoms, united in a person of king. Kubura 09:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Koloman was first hungaro-croatin king. Before him Croatia was kingdom with Tomislav, Kresimir,.. as kings (10th century) and Zadar was a part of that kingdom from 1069. Church st. Donat (early 9th century) got its name to bishop Donat (?-811). It's build in oldcroatian pre-romanesque style typical for croatian builders of that period in wider area populated by Croats in Dalmatia. Also Donat is recognised as typical croatian name found only in Zadar as well as Stosija (slavic version of Anastasia). St. Stosia is Zadar's chatedral and it got its todays shape in 18th century. In early 13th the rivalty of Zadar and Venice resulted in destroying the city. There is a rich archive of hystorical documents in Zadar with many croatian names as early as 9th and 10th century and til now croatian names make the most of all found in all of documents. Because of important strategic position in centre of Adriatic sea, Zadar has frequently changed its political rulers and has been the part of political trade but did not changed its croatian population. You should use -joined again- 83.131.131.75 22:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Venice and Italy were nothing but invaders in history of Zadar. During venician occupation of Zadar citizens of the city were Croats and administration was venician. In the northwestern corner of the old city centre there are still walls of castle inside the city walls. Today it is called Kampo Kastel. It was built by Venicians and was used to hide venician city government and guards since they were not wellcome among citizens. Venecian tax collectors, politicians, administrators couldn't walk safely through the city so they were usually followed and protected by well armed soldiers. The fact is that Zadar was never really venician town, only in papers. The same goes for italian control of the city. Italy got Zadar just few times for some short periods and it were political trades in every case. Italian ruling of Zadar was always resulting in cultural stagnation of the city and losing population. Italian population in Zadar were mostly soldiers and administrators and their families. Not too many civils at all. All positive cultural movements after 9th century were initialized by Croats and in croatian cultural envirement. These are just few historical facts and there are thousands more of it in historical documents written in croatian language and placed in Zadar archives.83.131.146.247 15:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Page says that Zlatan Ibrahimovic's mother is from Zadar, but the Zlatan Ibrahimovic page says she is a Bosnian Croat from Tuzla. Cordless larry 12:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Zlatan´s father is from Tuzla but his mother is from Prkos, small village just near Zadar. This is 100% certain. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.131.145.45 (talk • contribs) 14:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Copyright problem

The text refers "Adapted from the "Miroslav Krleža" Lexicographic Institute text about Zadar."

I see copyright issue here. Wikipedia should be made by original contributions. --Paolopk2 08:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Compromise

You both know that both sides are true, so how about this compromise...

Since World War II the city has developed as a strong economic and tourist centre. In 1991, attacks on Serbian civilians occured, culminating in the Zadar Kristallnacht where over 350 Serbian shops and houses were destroyed. Later, the Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) along with Serb paramilitaries converged on the city and it found itself as the subject of shelling. Connections with the capital Zagreb were severed for over a year, the only link being via the island of Pag. Zadar was once again damaged in the war, including its historical bastions and churches. The siege of the city lasted until January 1993 when Zadar again came under the control of Croatian forces. Attacks on the city continued until the end of the war in Croatia in 1995.

Not so hard is it... - FrancisTyers 16:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm copying it in, if you want to complain, complain here. - FrancisTyers 16:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

If Dalmatian Kristallnacht gets deleted, that specific reference needs to be deleted to. By the way, the number has recently been revised by Serbian wikipedians to 116 shops. I, of course, can't verify either one. Everyone, take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dalmatian Kristallnacht and add intelligent discussion if you can. Grandmasterka 03:50, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Zadar Kristallnacht happened after Serbs have killed Croatian police officer Franko Lisica in Benkovac. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.131.145.45 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC).

Ooooh this is really not a good place for compromise! The war in Croatia started during 1990. with Serbian "Balvan revolution"... Balvan is balk, log in English... Serbian paramilitaries started the chrises in Croatia - cutting trees by the roads and blocking the traffic. At that moment Croatia didn't have any kind of army, just an official police. Franko Lisica was a Croatian policeman sent with his unit to clear the passage in one of many such points (02.05.1991.). He got killed by Serbian paramilitaries hidden in ambush. Lisica was born in Bibinje, a village next to Zadar, so the day after he had been killed, a group of people from Bibinje came to the centre of the city and damaged Serbian shops. Around 100 shops. "Zadar crystal night" was a title in newspapers. 83.131.131.215 16:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protected

I've protected this, since this revert war doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon. Adam Bishop 04:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Despite the protection, it would be convenient if the [[Crusaders]] link could become [[Fourth Crusade|Crusaders]] so it does not end up going to a disambiguation page. Dpv 00:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh yeah, I forgot about this...I've unprotected it. I don't understand the crusade links though...why doesn't "crusader" just redirect to "crusade"? Adam Bishop 00:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits to Famous People

There were alot of edits to the famous people area on June 20th 2006 with NO explanation as to why so many were removed....I informed the IP address that did it to not remove info without valid reason on the talk page as per Wiki policy but the IP address did it again. Can someone with more knowledge about Zadar please take a look at the edits and restore as necessary. Also, this editor seemed to take offense to the Italian source of the Zadar name but not the Latin??? KsprayDad 23:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slavica lingua

I cut the following lines:
An annalist from the year 1177 noted that the joyous people of Zadar accompanying Pope Alexander III on his way to the basilica sang songs of praise 'in their native Slavic language'
Reason: it's not connected with culture or literature. Those lines should be insert in the *proper contest*. A note about the language used by some common people of Zara is neither, nor literature. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Giovanni Giove (talk • contribs) 08:13, 15 July 2006 (UTC).


Zara between Diadora and Zadar? False. Zara is name used by Italians and there are many documents where you can see that the name in usage was Zadar, slavic version of illyric Iader. This Zara nonsense - where does it come from??? Maybe Italy??? In croatian language the citizen of Zadar is called Zadranin - you can find it in many documents in 14th, 15th,... century. During italian occupation Zadranin was changed to Zaratin according to Zara, and not before. This thing about name is really wrong and has nothing to do with documentation and encyclopedia editing, but it deals a lot with politics. It's very sad!83.131.146.247 15:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


Iader, Iadera is illyric or better to say liburn name for Zadar, not latin as it is written in the text. Latins were just using this name. You can see connection Adriatic - Iader. In croatian it is Jadran - Zadar. Zadar is slavic version of Iader. It is obviously that italian name Zara comes from croatian name Zadar and not contrary. Letter D in the middle is present in all names except Zara. Zara withot D sounds more italian and accords to reshapening Zadar - Zadra - Zara. Zara is found mostly in Venice and italian documentation.

Maybe genetics can help? Recent genetical investigations of Y-chromosome shows that modern Croat is 76% mix of Illyrian and Slav (42% I1b "illyrian" and 34% R1a "Indoeuropean"). Also Herzegovina (populated with Croats only) is a place where I1b reaches the maximum 72%. The dispersion of I1b haplogroup indicates that population of Dalmatia must have frequency >50%. By the way Dalmatia is illyric name too - the Dalmats illyrian tribe. Following R1a frequency and dispersion it is obviously that slavic tribes came to west Balkan massively in 7th century, but small groups and collonies were there much earlier starting from 1st century BC. Collision of Croats and Illyrians into croatian identity was a process. It couldn't be just a happening of a few hundred years. Croats are recognised as christians very early (8th century). They create their own style of curch building in 9th century especially in Zadar area. Also there are more then 1 document where you can see that language used in churches was Croatian. Everywhwere else it was Latin. The coming of Pope Alexander III (1177.) to Zadar was just acceptance of that situation which was a litlle bit disturbing before. That's why An annalist from the year 1177 noted that the joyous people of Zadar accompanying Pope Alexander III on his way to the basilica sang songs of praise 'in their native Slavic language'. It's not just a documentary screenshot. It is an accent of the moment and happenning. 89.172.64.60 18:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Has Anyone Noticed?

Has anyone noticed that lots of foriegn cities (outside the US and UK that I'm aware of) only have the name of the city, but not ", [country]". I put wikilinks on my page that said Zadar, Croatia, and, well, I thought no one had an article on that. Just thought I'd like to comment. Cheers! The RuneScape Junkie   20:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dundee

Dundee is in the United Kingdom of which Scotland is a region. Scotland may have existed as an independent country 300 years ago, but at the moment it is part of a state called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.95.26 (talk) 14:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

The page is protected, congratulations. Adam Bishop 15:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Croathood of Zadar

Here are some links for those who doubt about that.
From HAZU. First two pages [1] of a book "Vazetye Szigheta grada / szlosheno po Barni Karnarutichiu Zadraninu.
Translation is: "The Capture of Szigetvar, ...by Barne Karnarutić of Zadar ("Zadraninu", not "Zaratino"). The book is from 1661.. More to come. Kubura 09:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

From HAZU. First page [2] of a book "Vila Slovincha Givrgia Barachovicchia Zadranina v çettare varsti petya sloxena ça yest v pismi schvpne, u osmo redche u zuçno poyche i u polvredche. Printed in Venice in 1614."
"... of Juraj Baraković Zadranin (not "Zaratino")...". Kubura 09:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zadar in Hungarian

Could any of the admins add the Hungarian name of the city, which is "Zára" (without the quotation marks, of course)? CoolKoon 10:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

How is Zadar's name in Hungarian in any way relevant? —KingIvan 10:34, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ...still protected

I don't think there are anymore disputes, and this page has been protected forever, I want to at least fix some of the appalling spelling errors on the page. If anyone has anymore disputes, then get it over with on this page.... --Jesuislafete 02:58, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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