User talk:Z2qc1

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Hello, Z2qc1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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[edit] Please use preview

You did 19 edits in 15 minutes to one article Faith Freedom International. Mistakes can happen and an important block of text was dropped. Please use the Show Preview and Show Changes button to verify that the text is what you want and please use Edit Summaries. What happens if you don't use Edit Summaries is that your changes will get reverted if they are contentious. On some articles it is best to use Talk first before removing any text (Faith Freedom International is probably one of those); no edit summary and no talk on difficult subjects usually gets reverted. Ttiotsw 06:54, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please dont delete content from Faith Freedom International

Hello Z2, in this edit you removed the fact that FFI was banned by some Muslim countries. Can you explain why you did this? As you can see, every edit is recorded so its hard to get away with stuff here. --Matt57 19:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


_____ I had no idea what i was doing that made the "FFI banned in some muslim countries" dissappear. What was happening was that i edited and provided a list of countries that view the FFI site according to % based on site meter. Then when i began inserting it somehow the references after ref no. 21 was being messed up. I understood that it was due to my recent edit on the countries... topic.

You see thats how you will see i had 15 edits in like 15 minutes kind of. I am new and plus i was not aware how to use the discussion page and get answers. so i did my best to restore the page. I could not. Surprisingly someone else was also editing the same page. I thought he may help or he may restore the page properly. But that did not happen. I am pleased that user Titsow and you have spoken about it. Again i have no idea how to message you guys so i am using this page to type me response. I dont know if you or anyone will read this. If you can let me know how to send messages to users. so next time i can bring it to someonelses attention when i go wrong.

Thats ok, just be careful when you delete stuff in one edit, keep track of it where it goes, also as the above user pointed out, use "Preview" if you are going to do lots of editing, its helpful. Thanks for letting me know.--Matt57 04:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

oh come on matt, i am not apologizing to you. "Thats ok" sounds like i did something against you that hurt you. What do you mean by "its hard to get away". get away from what?. Honestly ! i am still reading stuff on the wiki to find how to edit pages better and i am yet be to sure of exactly how to. I used preview, but he problem was the references. They were getting messed up. and i thought it prehaps is only a particlar tag like < or > or / kind of thing.

I dont understand this particular article anyways. It is more of a advertisement than information. I mean just look at the references majority of them are from FFI website itself. I thought putting some references from outside the FFI website would help.

That would be great, if you can find more outside references. We have some, look at the bottom, but we need more. If you see your edits getting messed up, you can always revert. See the last version of a good edit, hit Edit and then save - that reverts. You can also click Undo. Ok and another thing: you put in the information about Views and countries, thats good, but really its sort of petty information as compared to what the article is really about. You know, every website has that sort of information. I think the fact that we gave a link to the Site meter there is sufficient. You could try maybe improving the "Views on Islam" section. Anyway, edit as you feel is appropriate and useful for the article. --Matt57 05:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Emm. guess what i was messing up on the tags "ref (begining) and ref ending i did not use </ for the ending. Anyways, The problem is there are no outside references Matt. You should know that better. Intellectuals do not use internet as a source material. I have written thesis and stuff trust me i know what i was talking about when i said this article is only a peice of advertisement and not information. About my edits: Views and countries. There 'is/was' (wiki remember) a statement where it says banned in Saudi,had a reference, good. Followed by a sentence saying that it was banned in 'some'muslim countries(a generalized statement stereotyping many countries that may be muslim) without a reference Ah An !!not good at all. Then it stated its own website claim that pakistan too had it banned. This reference was from the website itself of course not good enough.

So there was information being sent out.

  1. Website is notorious/famous for being banned thats is called negative publicity.
  2. I assume the article is present only because it proved its notability by showing the number of visitors it had and the number of cross links it had. However the truth is that it has 1200 members only. Any silly christian, muslim, jew, forumn/blog has more members that that.
  3. I would think that a website is notable by what services it provides and what benifits its users.
  4. your comment "edit as you feel is appropriate and useful for the 'ARTICLE'. Matt you may be a veteran at wiki. I am not. BUT i do know that wiki is here not for promoting websites rather its here to be an encyclo'pedia' which is for the benefit for the readers and useful for the readers. So theusefulness should be looked at frmo the point of view of the reader and not the veiws and ideas of someone.
  5. i dont think that my edit was petty. If a link for site meter is sufficient to tell about the sites rankings etc. Then in that logic why have such a long article about FFI. Just have its mission statement and the challange and give a link to FFI. Thats it and would save a lot of time for all of us.
Hello Z, the reference for the website being banned in Pakistan, is all we have right now. We have to use the best reference. I wish there was some way we can confirm the banning Iran too. Its obvious they are banning anything ani-Islamic. Can you beleive they banned the Persian version of BBC and Amazon.com? Surely FFI must have been banned too. Also if we now mention that fact on BBC's page that its banned in Iran, that doesnt mean its negative publicity. This is important information about BCC. Please look at this whole issue objectively. 1200 members is not true. There's no "membership" of the website anyway - thats irrelevant. You should also say that 100 of those members are actually automatic spammers (for example). This membership is just those people who registered in the forum. There's no official membership - thats the main point. Your (3) is incorrect. You should read WP:N. The article was deleted before and the complaint then was it was not notable enough. After the article was revived, notability was established by the external links. You can read the last page deletion discussion here. The external links establish notability and you can read many of the reasons in that discussion why the article is notable. If Wiki is not here for promoting websites, then are you saying its wrong to have CNN ? Its not. I think you are only against the idealogy of the website, thats the only reason you're speaking against it. If you say its alright to have the Challenge of the website in the article, then why is it not okay to have other information on the site? So I'll suggest you to read the above Deletion discussion and notability. If you want to work on a criticism section, maybe that would be a good choice for you. Saying stuff like 3% of the website's visitors were from China is much less important than what the website actually says. Your edit actually prompted me to move all that less important stuff down. Websites Ranking and Disambiguation is not as important as the actual views, the challenge and the Debates on the site - makes sense. You can also sign your comments using the Signature button. And I'm not a vetaran here, I'm just an editor like everyone else. Actually you cant beleive how much time admins spend on WP here. Yesterday I saw this Persian Poet Gal, she was constantly editing for 7 hours and they do that everyday. Now THOSE are veterans. I'm just a little foot solder. Its been a long battle for this article. Its been deleted 2 times by now, I think. It wont go away this time because there are external links and thats part of what establishes notability. I've had a hard time with some articles critical of Islam. Some people basically dont like the presense of anything critical of Islam and thats wrong, obviously and doesnt achieve anything. So if you know of any external references for FFI, please put them in,thank you.--Matt57 18:30, 25 February 2007 (UTC)


Man!!! The first things i read about wiki on its tutorial is this "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia incorporating elements of general encyclopedias, specialized encyclopedias, and almanacs. All articles must follow our no original research policy and strive for accuracy; Wikipedia is not the place to insert personal opinions, experiences, or arguments." Can you read the last line ??? Now read your statement "Saying stuff like 3% of the website's visitors were from China is much less important than what the website actually says". What the website says is what the owner of the website says in this article correct. Now recollect the last line of the first pillar of Wiki."Wikipedia is not the place to insert personal opinions, experiences, or arguments" wiki article on FFI is mostly indicates personal opinion, experiences and arguments of Mr. Sina.

I dont have an inclination to waste your time Matt. You know well that your motive is only to promote the website. My motive is to provide readers with adequate information to enable them to understand what the enclyclopedia says about a particular topic. Giving readers information that the website has 20,000,000 visitors sends an extraordinary signal. But telling readers that inspite of 20,000,000 visitors the site has 1200 members who post and write on its pages. The emails it receives has been red 5000 times balances the scale. I believe i should give two views of the same thing (not pro nor anti just pure fact)and a user/reader decides what it is worth. Matt these are not my ideological arguments. these are facts posted by the site (members and readings) and the sitemeter.com (country veiwership) Its silly to think everyone who edits is against FFI or against you. You are perhaps trying to advertise the site 'only' and any views which you think is against its advertisement should be deleted or sent to thebottom page. THATS ideological i think! Be happy matt.Be positive. Hate only kills our soul. Hate only helps us think irrationaly. Same goes with excessive love. BBC and FFI (wrong analogy). 3% of China is 30 million thats a lot, wrong example. CNN ? again, a wrong example.

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