Talk:Yotsudama

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[edit] Merge proposal

I can find precisely zero evidence that four-ball and yotsudama are not the same game. Merging the latter into the former is thus called for (and not the other way around, per WP naming conventions - prefer English-language names over foreign terms.) Followup discussion should happen at Talk:Four ball not here (and I am marking this topic "Resolved" to forestall replies here.) — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 08:58, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I support your merge proposal. There are only minor differences among the International, Korean and Japanese rules so they can be merged under one page.

I thought "yoSTudama" was a typo of "yoTSudama" as a first glance but now I feel "yoSTudama" may also be a legitimate spelling. In Japanese, it is definitely "yoTSudama". However, according to one Japanese Web site, Korean players use many loanwords from Japanese. So they may use the loanword for the game's name as well. I know there is no 'TSU' sound in the Korean language and "yoTSudama" may have become "yoSTudama" in Korea. And it is most likely it was Korean players who brought the game to the West because "yoTSudama" or ("yoSTudama") is very popular in Korea, and it is not now in Japan. We need a Korean native contributor on this matter.

After you merge the articles, I'll add the section for the Japanese rule, which is again slightly different from the rule described in this Yotsudama article. Tarafuku10 13:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Another opinion...

I wrote original text about for korean four-ball.

1. I've played the game in Korea and have spoken with Korean players. The game in Korea is called "danggu" (another English spelling is danggoo), which is a Korean word which translates to "four-ball". Whatever the decision to merge the articles, this subject should be under "yotsudama" alone, since that is the name only used in Japan. I can think of a few solutions... (1) at least mention that the game is called "danggu" in Korea, (2) forward a "danggu" article to "yotsudama", (3) fold "yotsudama" back into "four-ball" and be sure to note the Japanese, Korean (and other) translation-names of the game.

2. By ALL MEANS, the games (danggu/yotsudama versus four-ball) are different enough to warrant a separate note on wikipedia. Four-ball players always allow the shooter to contact the opponent's cue to score points, whereas to do so in danggu/yotsudama it is a penalty.

3. Check out [[1]] for "danggu" in use. Mrpaulus 21:56, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't entirely follow you. I'm not sure what you mean by "four-ball" in point #2 above, if not either danggu or yotsudama. Are you proposing that there are three games? NB: I'm well aware of the game "American four-ball billiards", but it has been effectively extinct since the late 1800s, when balkline and straight rail supercede it. Anyway, thanks for the article citation; will have to check that out. That may be virtually our only English-language source at this point! Anyone know Japanese? There's a book (easily findable on Amazon with a search for "yotsudama" but it is in Japanese. Anyway, I would think for the present that (per WP naming conventions), the article should be called Four-ball and have sections on both yotsudama and danggu (and some third "four-ball" game if it can be sourced to exist). Maybe some day there'll be enough sourceable material to warrant separate articles, but right now all of this is frankly a big AfD "magnet". — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 23:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)