User talk:Yom

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[edit] Copts

Dear Yom, there is a problem on Copt article. There is a strong pro-Arab POV and the latest version of the article has been removed by arab editor. They dont concider Copts as separate ethnic group. You are one of the most active contributors for Ethiopia and you should be involved in Copt dispute. Your input will be greatly apreciated. Thanks. Ldingley 19:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Sure! im ready for a colaboration :) i have interesting photos of ethiopian emperors. Thanks for your help on Copts. Ldingley 14:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Habesha Article (Category)

Yom, please do not forget to respond in our discussion on the Habesha article. --Merhawie 16:28, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE:Kingdom of Zion

Well,Mikael was the father of Iyasu V.The Kingdom existed 1914-1916 and as the emperor himself reigned 1913-1916,I believe he gave his father this Kingdom.(See on Royalark on the Gojjam article on the Ethiopia page,where it is stated,that the Kingdom of Gojjam was then a part of Zion under Mikael).New Babylon

[edit] tupac is not dead

I heard something else about that name that was not his birth name

[edit] page of how his body was

the internet showed that sombody erase the page of his body and they talking there probably was once a page but then deleted but what I think had happened was that somebody know or either help Tupac fake his death and deleted the picture of his death what they had in the morge was probably a fake body

[edit] ARAB WORLD

i Find your work in Arab Issues more of Harrasing and Anti-Arab then trying to Add a positive healthy contribution to Wikipedia, i hop you dont take this personally, but please inform me what the reason of changing my created map from Arab world to the older map showing populations were Arabs live!!! the Arab World consists of non-Arabs living IN Arab States, and also consists of States that are members of the Arab League, which my map showd, but your reason for changing the Maps related to Arab Topics to under-developed false Maps is rising, and is becoming Irritating.

and again i will ask you to inform me if you wish to change a Map in the following Articles:

etc...

thank you —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arab League (talk • contribs) 00:56, September 8, 2006 (UTC)

I really don't understand why you find my work that way. I'm not sure what edit you're referring to regarding changing maps. The maps on Arab were originally changed because the version you uploaded was inaccurate, but I don't have any major problems with the newer version, just a few minor border changes here and there, and the removal of countries with "strong influence" from Arab countries, as I believe this latter category is subjective and a bit POV (on the other side, if you change the Green color to mean just areas where Arabs live, Arabs should probably be placed in a small area in NE Eritrea and Khuzestan, as well as some other areas per Image:Iran_peoples.jpg). If you're referring to this edit on Arab world, I felt it more useful because it distinguishes between Arab and non-Arab areas, whereas the map you inserted is different only that it does not show such differences and, to be honest, has an ugly color (yours does show Western Sahara as separate, too, but I'm not sure as to their position in the Arab world as they speak Arabic, but I think they consider themselves non-Arab). Those are the only two places where I have made reversions. I have also uploaded a corrected version of Image:Arab league.png by removing Eritrea (an observer), Israel (not a member), and Western Sahara (usually removed on Wikipedia pages), as well as by keeping the borders of the countries. I think the borders should be kept so that users can see what countries are a member of the Arab League, instead of just seeing a sea of green. I didn't add Palestine to the map then because I wasn't sure if it was represented in the league (I missed it on the article page), which your map corrected. I have no intention on changing your maps in any specific pattern, except when I see mistakes that need to be corrected. Speaking of which, your image on Iran-Arab relations, Image:ASI.GIF, should not include Eritrea, which is not an Arab nation (about 0.5% Arab, much less Arab than Iran, for example). I'm hesitant about including non-Arab (but Arab League members) Djibouti and Somalia, as well, and I'm sure many users will be opposed to your inclusion of Israel in Green in that map. Regarding colors, can you make your maps more like Image:Ethnic Arabs Map2.GIF.GIF, the new version you uploaded. The ones you uploaded earlier are generally of worse quality; this one is sharper and clearer. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 06:45, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ARAB-MAPS

as you said about the Map concerning Arab World, you prefer the light highlighter of Sudan, Iraq, etc... bascially we should also be adding Iran with Khuzestan as dark green while the resy of iran highligheted in light green, and other parts in Turkey, Chad, Niger etc... as for Western Sahara, please check the official name of Western sahara, since you will find them Arabs..

as for the Irani-Arab Map, i included Eritrea since it is considered as an arab country due to the fact that it has a strong Population of Arabs, and Arabic is an Official Language, so is Israel...therefore are considered part of the Arab World.. i only highlighted Israel in darker green because it has special relations with Iran then the Rest of the Arab World. as for the map of Arab League, i made it based on the Map of the European Union, and i have put Western Sahara in Darker green, since it is recognized by most countries of the World as part of Morocco... and by the Arab League as moroccan Territory...

FYI, Eritrea does not have Arabic as an official language, as there are no official languages. In Eritrea we have only working languages, and indeed arabic is one of those. Please do not confuse them as it may lead to confusion on the main Eritrea article. "A national conference on languages held in the summer of 1996 recommended that the government refrain from adopting an offcial language..."[1]--Merhawie 01:54, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yom please do not rename the race page

There's no such race as capoids, except in the mind of Carleton Coon, whose theory of racial superiority has been discredited by the out of africa model. Capoids and congoids are a subset of negroids if they even are that. Most anthropologists believe in only 3 races and sometimes add a fourth.[2] Editingoprah 04:46, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arabs

Genetically speaking, what is it that makes the Ethiopians, namely the Amhara and tigray different from the pure west africans. Would you classify them as being closer to the Yemenites or Africans? Also as you say the Oromo are closely related with the Amhara. So then why have they been opressed? Also on the old maps of Ethiopia, it didnt include Oromia, but rather only tigray and amhara region. So are the Oromo people a newer addition to the Ethiopian population in the last few centuries? Also the Oromo have been in the royal family beginning only in these past few hundred years, is that true or have they been active in the zewdi for a long time. Also if you dont mind me asking, are you from Yemen? Cluckbang 23:53, 10 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

This dichotomy of "Pure" West Africans vs. "mixed" Ethiopians is incorrect. Genetically, the major difference is that Ethiopians and other Horn Africans carry the Y-chromosome (father) haplotype E3b (originating in East Africa), while West Africans carry E3a (originating in Western Africa). Both of these are sub-clades of E3, which originated in Eastern Africa. The Fulani, who tend to look like Ethiopians, however, carry 100% E3a West African lineages. Long noses and thin lips are simply adaptations to dry climates, while broad noses and thick lips are adaptations to moist climates. Genetically, there is no question as to the relations between Ethiopians and other Africans. E3b has spread from Ethiopia to NW Africa (~75% of Paternal DNA), Western Asia (~30-50% Paternal DNA) and Southeastern Europe and Sicily (20-30% of Paternal DNA). Yemenis have E3b that they got from Ethiopians migrating out of the region about 10,000 years ago, but they also have different lineages from other places in Western Asia, while maternally Yemenis have significant West African and Southeast African admixture due to the slave trade that is not found in Horn African (including Ethiopia) populations. The relation of Oromos to the Solomonic state is complicated. Oromos surely would have lived in southern areas of Bale (an Ethiopian province since the reign of Amda Seyon I) and areas that today border Somalia, but they didn't enter the realm of the Solomonic state in mass quantities until the 1500s, beginning in 1522, and continuing for centuries. They were pagan, and expanding on the power of the Christian state, which is why this expansion was opposed, but beginning as early as Susenyos (who was raised by Oromos), there was some integration, and Oromo groups loyal to the Emperor were under his control and integrated. Large scale integration began with Emperor Iyasu I, and continued from then onward. After the invasion of Ahmed Gragn, though, Ethiopia lost a lot of its southern territories. Emperor Gelawdewos recovered most of these territories (with the obvious exception of Adal), but Oromo migrations took most of them. After the chaotic Zemene Mesafint (during which the Emperors were puppets, usually controlled by the Oromo Yejju dynasty that was outwardly Christian but all had Muslim names), Ethiopia was at its weakest and smallest, which is why you'll see some "old maps" without "Oromia," but these areas were mostly under Solomonic control in earlier periods. I am not from Yemen, though. I consider myself Gonderé and Tigré. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:52, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

so happy for this explanation.--HalaqaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 23:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Dear Yom, thank you very much for your warm massage. I will re-upload ethiopian images and give them for your use. I agree with Jimbo Wales. Please send me email and i can email you much more. Thanks again. All the best. Luis Ldingley 14:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I will solemnly assign rights of those Ethiopian images to you (because you are the main and biggest contributor of Ethiopian related topics) so you can use them freely for Ethiopian related articles. I can email you them. Thanks. Ldingley 14:21, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dienekes

American Journal of Human Biology Volume 8, Issue 4, 1996. Pages: 505-516

An anthropogenetic study on the Oromo and Amhara of central Ethiopia

Marco Tartaglia *, Giuseppina Scano, Gian Franco De Stefano Dipartimento di Biologia, Università degli Studi di Roma Tor Vergata, Via della Ricerca Scientifica, 00133 Rome, Italy


Abstract Blood samples from members of the Oromo and Amhara ethnic groups of central Ethiopia were tested for 10 erythrocyte protein systems: ACP1, ADA, AK1, CA2, ESD, G6PD, GLO1, HB, PGD, and PGM1. Differences between the two samples were relatively slight and not statistically significant. Gene frequency distributions were then analyzed in the context of the genetics of the African and Arabian peoples. Considering the erythrocyte enzyme data, the Oromo and Amhara appear quite similar to Europoids (particularly to the South Arabians) and considerably different from the Negritic peoples. There is evidence for close genetic affinity among the Cushitic- and Semitic-speaking population groups of the Horn. Admixture between Europoid and Negritic populations seems to have been the main microevolutionary factor in generating the present day Cushitic (and Semitic)-speaking group of eastern Africa. The results are consistent with the hypothesis, supported by historical and linguistic evidence, for a common origin of these groups from a Cushitic-speaking group living in eastern Africa. © 1996 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000068.html

Cluckbang 23:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] re: Herero and Namaqua Wars

I've protected Herero and Namaqua Wars in hopes that all disputes may instead be resolved on the article's talk page. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 23:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey yom...

Email me nolawi.petros@gmail.com

thanks

[edit] Abyssinia

I just noticed that there is an article at Abyssinia that should probably be a redirect to Ethiopia... nothing terribly useful or accurate there... What do you think? ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 16:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Also the article at Habeshistan is similarly worthless... I think it should go to Habesha... ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 16:05, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mauritania

Hi there Yom, I found it interesting that you said that a certain tribe in Mauritania look like Ethiopians. Is this based on genetic evidence or just your opinion?

Cluckbang 20:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

Genetically they are distinct from Ethiopians. I believe we were talking about the Fulani, but when my mother visited Mauretania when she was young, they didn't even check her at the immigration gate because they thought she was a Moor. Genetically, Fulani carry 100% E3a (paternally), which is common among West African people (both Niger-Congo speakers and not), while Ethiopians, North Africans, and other East Africans (along with Arabs, Southeastern Europeans and Western Asians) tend to have E3b. Many Fulani look just like Ethiopians (a Burkinabé friend of mine said I look just like a Fulani he knows), while others look more like "stereotypical" West Africans and have broad features, but all carry the same E3a paternally.
Given that the way a group "looks" isn't determined by these lineages, you can't say that similarity in looks is based on genetics. The mutations are neutral and have little effect, which is why they are chosen to create haplogroups - they aren't selected for, so there's no genetic pressure increasing or decreasing the frequency of the mutation. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:27, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I understand what you mean, but I think its all opinionative. For instance, some Ethiopians look like Yemenites, and some look like Nubians/South Egyptians. I have and friend from Egypt, and he tells me that a lot of people think that he is from Ethiopia. I myself know people from Morocco that look like Ethiopians (not melanin-wise, but rather physical features). Stating that Ethiopians look like Fulani, doesnt further back your statement. I am not saying that you are wrong, and that the Fulani don't look like Ethiopians (vice versa), but rather that, the statement you made for me originally in which you mentioned the Fulani ( in proving that Ethiopians are native africans), since I could argue back to that and say that some Eritreans/Ethiopians look like Yemenites. However, for the most part, and generally looking at Fulani pictures, they do have some physical features that are similar to Ethiopians. Also, Yom, that information I added to the the habesha article was from a recent date. You might find it surprising but, the main page of the website says this "This website is a compendium of genetic studies, anthropological surveys, historical perspectives and photo series addressing various topics related to racial origins, affinities and myths. Its aim is to counter the proliferation of pseudo-scholarship coming from Nordicists (White Nationalists), Afrocentrists, Multi-Racialists and Race-Deniers all over the internet. The accumulated materials are intended only to correct misinformation, not to denigrate any group or advance a political agenda. The webmaster holds no special credentials in any of the fields mentioned." This is the reason why I chose this website. By the way, what is wrong with the abysinnia map on the genetics heading, what made it wrong to be there?? Im confused. Is that also incorrect information? Cluckbang 01:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang


Yemenis look Ethiopian not the other way around. Yemenis are mixed not the other way around.

[edit] History of Yemen

Hi. I'd like to split the content on History of Yemen into four new articles: Ancient history of Yemen, Post-Islamic history of Yemen, and Timeline of the history of Yemen. The history of Yemen article would then focus primarily are recent history, independence up to today. Would that be alright? Regards, EFG 02:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Such splits in general are fine as articles get larger, but not focusing the main article as recent history. The series of "History of X" articles are to cover the entire history of the area. The article would (after splitting) include information from all areas, but simply summaries of the particular eras. I.e. there would be a Pre-Islamic history of Yemen article (or Ancient, if you prefer, but this title is less ambiguous), a Post-Islamic history of Yemen article, a Timeline of the history of Yemen article, and a Modern history of Yemen, with all of those (excepting the timeline) summarized in the main History of Yemen article. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reverts

Yom, I would honestly like to solve the problem of having to reverting each other's edits. However, although your inputs make sense, I dont think you should delet everything that i included. The caucasoid and negroid terms are still used widely today! So I believe in an integration of what you put and what I put. By the way, the part i put about genetics doesnt only talk about caucasoid and negroid, it includes GENETIC information like how you included about. So whats the problem? Cluckbang 22:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Eritrean Habesha

When you say "broadest possible terms" what exactly are you refering to? After all under religion you refer to only Judaism and Christianity, not Islam, so should the Muslim relgion be ignored if you are counting them? Furthermore the predecessor to Abyssinia from which the term Habesha is claimed to have descended is Aksum, which eventually influenced/conquered parts of Yemen right? So then should their population be included as Habesha as well? What is this broadest possible terms? -- Merhawie 23:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

The broadest term is that used in modern times which refers to all Ethiopians and Eritreans, not all descendents of the Aksumites (Yemen wouldn't count since it was not a natural extension of Aksum, otherwise Phoenicians by extension would be Latins because they were conquered by the Romans). The religion category, too, should reflect the varying definitions, I just haven't gotten around to it because I'm busy with class. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 23:23, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Herero & Namaqua

Yom, I have added some commentary to the talk page at Herero & Namaqua Wars/genocide. I would like to comment on Maria Stella's problematic draft, but it appears that there is no talk page for a temp page already connected to the main talk page. What is the etiquette here? Should I put my comments in square brackets in the relevant sections of the temp page (since it is a talk page)? Or should I put them on the main talk page, referring to the temp page? Thanks in advance for your guidance. Ngwe 01:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population

Yom I believe you should take out the 800000 number in the population. The reason being is that (from what you are saying) it includes, the Kunama people, the rashaida, nilotic people(southern ethiopia). In that case, we might as well merge this with the ethiopian people article. The whole point of this article is to signitfy, a certain group of people in ethiopia. However, if it is only semitic people, why did you take out my input that said "all semitic speaking people". Also, I dont think you should put islam in the religion. From what i see, calling a muslim in ethiopia that speaks a semitic language is as much of an offense as calling a copt an arab. However, thank you very much for your inputs so far. Cluckbang 01:40, 16 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Hey Yom!

Hi Yom! Very impressive work you're doing here! igziabher yisTih!

[edit] Transliteration question

Hi Yom, I'm finally getting my long-awaited articles on individual woredas in Ethiopia into shape; I even have a volunteer with a bot who will add them to Wikipedia. Which leads to my question: is the woreda in the Debubawi Zone of Tigray Region properly transliterated "Ofla" or "Wofla"? (I believe Lake Ashanga is located in this woreda.) I've seen some authorities that put the W at the beginning, but the CSA transliterates this as "Ofla". For all I know, there may be a twist due to Tigrinya -- or I may confusing a locale within the woreda with the woreda itself. Good luck with your classes! -- llywrch 18:42, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I think that this particular situation may be similar to the names of Ifat and Yifat. Both are acceptable names (though Ifat is more commonly used), and the difference isn't with transliteration, but with variation in the name itself. In the case of Ifat, I believe (not certain) "Yifat" is actually the more modern name, while "Ifat" the name used in the chronicles, and a parallel situation may exist here as well, with "Ofla" being an older name preserved by Tigrinya and "Wofla" being a newer name (cf. Ge`ez ዖፍ `of "fowl, bird," Tigrinya ዑፍ `uf, Amharic ወፍ wef/wof [IPA /wɔf/]). If indeed one of the names is Tigrinya and the other is Amharic, choosing one over the other may be POV due to the site we're talking about (it's part of the area annexed by Tigray in 1996 from Wollo, along with Alamata, and Raya Azebo, as well as a few others), but the best way to go is probably the Tigrinya name for now (since it's in Tigray Region). The CSA has the Ge'ez as ኦፍላ, which would invariably be transliterated as "Ofla." — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:01, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Genetics section crisis

Codex keeps deleting the most important part of the Genetics section. The reason why I say this, is that it gives more information to the reader about which peoples they are related to. This is in terms of the fact that they have some indigenous african and also middleastern. I believe that what Yom added to it was important to keep but also that the other information included is also recent and legible information. It is clearly evident from the information provided in the whole section, that both parts are equally important. Many believe it is too long for a genetic section. However, if one looked at other articles of ethnic people, this is roughly how much information you would see. By including the Genetics section, it is also including the history of the genetics of the people, and who they are relating to. Please provide your input/opinion Yom, Merhawie and everyone else, or there will be continuous reverting. Cluckbang 17:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Islam and Slavery

hello Yom. here is the relevant quotation from the EoI article written by Brunschvig:

It may be allowed that, immediately before the Hijra, the great majority of slaves in western Arabia, a plentiful commodity at Mecca, by whose sale merchants grew rich (Abd Allah b. Djud'an [q.v.]; cf. Lammens, La Mecque...., Beirut 1924, passim), were coloured people of Ethiopian origin (Habasha).

i used "Abyssinian" as the word habasha was used but Ethiopian is equally valid if not more so. thanks ITAQALLAH 06:21, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

the HABASHA slaves, as Ethiopian slaves were commonly called by slave merchants, were not actually Ethiopians in the strict meaning of the Amhara and the Tigreans, as they came mainly from the Shanqella(a pejorative name the Amhara gave to the bantu) http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1668/slave1am8.jpg What they mean is that people say "Ethiopian slaves" that dosen't mean they were Ethiopians but slave sold from Ethiopia. Also if you study the populations in Arabia they have bantu visible admixture.

Don't forget that there were plenty Amhara, Tigrayan, Oromo etc. etc. slaves in Arabia and the Islamic world in general. They were taken in slave-raids by Arab or other slave traders. --Tiqur Anbessa 16:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maraba Coffee

Hello! As you're a Wikipedian interested in African topics, I'm writing to notify you that the Maraba Coffee article is now a 'Featured Article Candidate'. Please feel free to evaluate the article and write your support or opposition at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Thanks — SteveRwanda 15:26, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And the oldest Christian nation is...

Hi, Yom. Like you, I have always heard that Armenia is the first Christian nation still around today, followed by Aksum and then Roman Empire... But five minutes ago I just read the article San Marino, and I think they may possibly have an even better claim, that has been overlooked. Even more amazing that it was allegedly founded at the height of the Docletian persecutions! What do you think? ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 13:01, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

You have to consider the fact that the early history is basically legend. The 301 date is one version of its founding, while another has a date of 350. This is similar to Ethiopian dates for our conversion. It is 245 years after the incarnation of Christ traditionally (245 I), but it must have actually been a century after that. For Ethiopia, we have a solid dating for Aksum's conversion between 328 and 356, which is between the date Athanasius became the Patriarch of Alexandria (328-339 and 346-373) and appointed Frumentius (probably during his first tenure ca. 330 AD), and when Constantius II wrote a leter asking the King (Emperor) of Aksum to recall Frumentius due to doctrinal disputes. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 14:34, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I saw the mention of the 350 date but that doesn't match the Diocletian persecution of course... anyway, I found it interesting... ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 17:59, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
San Marino's oft-repeated claim is that they're the world's oldest republic. However, more sober historians believe the history of that state before the Middle Ages to be largely legendary. And although three of the Popes suffered martyrdom during Diocletian's reign, Eusebius does not mention any details about persecution in the Italian provinces; the whole story is likely a legend, for in the early Middle Ages many cities of Italy "discovered" that their communities had been founded during momentous events like this. (For example, Ravenna claimed their first Pope was a disciple of Pete, although other evidence points to a second-century founding date.) -- llywrch 00:51, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sabaean letters to SVG

Hi Yom! I like playing with Inkscape, and I was going though images on Wiki Commons which need converting from raster to vector. The whole category Sabaean letters is there, and I would like to give it a go. Three questions:

  1. Are the shapes correct? You say some aren't, and I have no clue here. I would like to see the correct shapes before I start creating better-looking versions of something that is wrong!
  2. Are the file names correct? If so, the vector version of Himjar ajin.PNG shall be uploaded as Himjar ajin.svg
  3. Should I run the SVG shapes through you before I upload them? Or do you want me to upload them and then let you know, and see whether you have any corrections to propose?

And by the way, that was a great tip concerning the Ethiopia alphabet on your home page! And a freeware alphabet too... I feel the world is a better place already. Thanks! – Tintazul msg 16:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting "new information"

Jacqueline Pirenne's most recent (1987) proposal results in a radically different view of the Ethiopian/South Arabian contacts. Weighing up the evidence from all sides, particularly aspects of material culture and linguistic/palaeographic information, she suggests that "il est donc vraisemblable que l'expansion ne s'est pas faite du Yémen vers l'Ethiopie, mais bien en sens inverse: de l'Ethiopie vers le Yémen". According to this theory, one group of Sabaeans would have left north Arabia (where they were then established) for Ethiopia in about the eighth or seventh century BC under pressure from the Assyrians; they then continued on into south Arabia. A second wave of emigrants, in the sixth and fifth century, would reign over the kingdom of Da'amat (D`MT), and would have been accompanied by Hebrews fleeing after Nebuchadnezzar's capture of Jerusalem; an explanation for the later Ethiopian traditions with their Jewish and Biblical flavour, and for the Falashas or black Jews of Ethiopia.


This is quite interesting, since it is saying that the Ethiopian kingdom was created by a foreign people. Do you believe in this theory, if so/not so i think it should still be mentioned in the ethiopian page where it mentions all the theories regarding the Sabeans and Ethiopia.

Cluckbang 22:45, 24 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Re: Adal

Yom, don't you have the necessary permissions to move pages? (I've had Admin rights for so long I honestly don't remember what non-Admins can do or can't do.) If you do have the necessary permissions, feel free to act on it -- you are very articulate & well-informed on this matter that I think you can argue your case far more convincingly than I could. (I suspect that he might be following some kind of standard, but I have no idea what it might be, nor does he allude to it either on his User pages or in the history comments.)

I will admit that I am puzzled why he felt the need to move Adal -> Adal Sultanate, instead of creating Adal (disambiguation): a quick glance at what links to Adal shows that they all presume that it is the name of the sultanate, & not to any other possible topic. If you need more help with this, please let me know. -- llywrch 16:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't revert it because the page I would move it to has had more than one edit to it (therefore requiring administrator permission. An even worse move that I just noticed, however, is that of Yohannes IV of Ethiopia‎ to Yohannes (John) IV of Ethiopia‎ (by Cluckbang. Can you please at least fix the latter since it's so clear-cut? (P.S. for some reason the links are red, but just do a search and you'll find the pages I'm referring to) — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:44, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you, that one is odd & goes against accepted Wikipedia practice. The only reason I hadn't reverted it sooner was I forgot to check your Talk page for an answer. Sorry. :o) -- llywrch 17:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adi/Addi

I think we should standardize the "Adi/Addi" villages as "Addi" for Tigrinya names and "Ad" for Tigre names. The reason why the Tigrinya form has the "-i" at the end is solely because the "d" is geminated (i.e. doubled in length), so that's the best approximation. Is Adi Teklezan mainly Tigre or Tigrinya? I think the Encyclopaedia Aethiopica has the article at Ad Teklezan, but I've seen evidence showing it's mainly Tigrinya-speaking. Either way, a standard "Addi" is probably the best way to go. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 14:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I have chosen to use the standard in Eritrean Government documents. For instance, Adi Tekelezan is from a Ministry of Public Works document. Specifically for that town though, if you look on the brief history I wrote on it, the town was originally settled by the Tigre but a significant population of Tigrinya immigrated there. As for who is the predominant? Well Eritrean population statistics never report ethnicity (at least none of the documents I have been privy to). Information I have about the town says that most people are bilingual. --Merhawie 16:15, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yom

Please stop using the information below on the habesha page under genetics.

"On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation.... Our Ethiopian sample also lacks the sY81-G allele, which was associated with 86% and 69% of Senegalese and mixed-African YAP+ chromosomes, respectively. This suggests that male-mediated gene flow from Niger-Congo speakers to the Ethiopian population was probably very limited ... Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."

"The present composition of the Ethiopian population is the result of a complex and extensive intermixing of different peoples of North African, Near and Middle Eastern, and south-Saharan origin. The main groups inhabiting the country are the Amhara and the Tigray-Tigrinya people, descended from Arabian conquerors. The genetic distance analysis showed the separation between African and non-African populations, with the Amhara located in an intermediate position." (De Stefano et al., Ann Hum Biol, 2002)

It has been found to be wrong.

It's not me doing that, it's Cluckbang. I've tried many times to remove it, but he won't allow it, and I don't want to start an edit war. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 18:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Former Italian colonies

Why don't you change the categories to Category: History of Ethiopia -- or at least add it to the categories. And as for Amhara (colony), it was the first title I could think of. It might still be the best one (after all, a lot of Africans believe their homelands were occupied provinces), but the important thing to do is disambiguate links like this from articles that have similar names -- but little else in common. -- llywrch 01:46, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

In fact I did just that (change it to Category:History of Ethiopia). The case of Ethiopia during WWII is little different from those of France or Thailand, however, which could hardly be called colonies of Germany and Japan, but rather occupied territories (I added "(occupied territory)" instead of "(occupied province)" since it sounded better). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 01:49, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] habesha (genetics section)

Regarding the Habesha article and the edits being made, we need to find a compromise like we did in the ethiopian article and the sabean-habesha relations. Please Yom, can you please tell me which parts of the genetics section seem false, because to me it sounds like real facts, that were made recently. Please respond, since you havent responded to my messages these days. Cluckbang 20:24, 29 September 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Eritrea rv

You have reverted what seems to be referenced fact. I have no problem with you working on the Eritrea page but you have reverted what has been documented (mind you I haven't checked it out for sure, I don't have the time right now) and also reverted changes to the structure of the document. Also you have also reverted without letting us know which version your reverted to. Just put the discussion up on the talk page. --Merhawie 17:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind some of the additions, but when all in concert without discussion, and with major formatting issues as a result, reverting was the easiest way. The anonymous user should explain his major changes on the talk page first before controversial changes (e.g. the use of the outdated "Abyssinia," associating the Gash group only with the Nilo-Saharan speaking populations (an association Rodolfo Fattovich does not make), moving the history section to the end, etc. Moreover, some of the information he included was getting too specific for the history section and belongs in the History of Eritrea article. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 17:56, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick response, also you still have not stated which version you reverted to, just so that we know. Thank you! --Merhawie 18:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I reverted to this version, which is identical to the versions I reverted to earlier, and the same version reverted to by [User:MER-C|MER-C]] and Gyrofrog. I won't be able to respond as quickly usually due to a heavy workload so if I'm late in future responses, please excuse me. I'm willing to incorporate some of the changes added by the anon, but not all in concert. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 18:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yom, you misunderstood the genetic studies

The studies you cited on the Ethiopian page in no way contradict the study I cite. In fact, many of the researchers who call Ethiopians caucasoid also cite the same studies you do. The ambiguity comes from the fact that your studies look at the Y chromosome only, which only tracks paternal lineage. And just because E3b probably started in East Africa does not mean its entire presence in Ethiopians is indigenous. Many scientists think the E3b line which left Africa and became Arab, eventually came back to Africa and mixed with the indegenous population. The bottom line is that for whatever reason Ethiopians genetically and craniofacially resemble caucasoids. They also resemble Negroids genetically and in pigment and hair type, but simply saying "they are Black: end of story!" is simplistic and dogmatic. A good article should show all sides. Whatdoyou 18:11, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

A good article also does not give undue weight to a very small minority POV. Almost all forms of E3b found in Ethiopia are thought to be indigenous, with E-M34 the only possible candidate representing a back migration from Asia, but the indigenous hypothesis for its origin is currently held to be more likely. The Oxford study you cited is operating on the basis that E3b originated in West Asia and is therefore not indigenous to the region (not just one of the sub-clades, but the whole haplogroup); this is false. Furthermore, lineages cannot become "Arab," and I do not know from where you got this idea. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Yom, Whatdoyou is correct, but you're just too emotionally invested in this topic to see reality. Either that or your understanding of science is not great. First of all it's not a very small minority POV. This article cites several independent scientists all coming to the same conclusion including the Cavalli-Sforza-arguabley the most important geneticist of the 20th century, and a study from the prestigous university of Oxford. And it makes no difference whether Caucasoids got their genes from Ethiopians or Ethiopians got their genes from Caucasoids. The point is that in terms of genetic propinquity, Ethiopians are intermediate between Negroids and Caucasoids. Why are you so threatened by claims that Ethiopians are related to Caucasoids? What difference does it make? We're all human beings. Some of you editors are way too obsessed with race and take it much too seriously. Editingoprah 03:52, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Yom's been pulling the same garbage over at the "Sub-Saharan DNA admixture in Europe" article (see discussions 5 and 6 on the Talk page). I'm still waiting for him to provide sources that support his claims, but so far I've gotten only evasion and silence. ---- Small Victory

[edit] Arabic Translation

Yom I wanted to know (since you are fluent in Arabic) (if possible) if you can provide an arabic translation to Habesha (Al Habesh) on the Habesha people page, I already wrote it in English, you just need to translate it to Arabic. Cluckbang 21:19, 2 October 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] "Arab slave trade" section in the Islam and Slavery article

Hi Yom,

The "Arab slave trade" section in the Islam and Slavery article is unsourced. I realized that you are knowledgable about this issue and have access to academic sources. I would appreciate if you could make this section referenced. Thanks in advance, --Aminz 06:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jigiga

Hi, is there a town called Jigiga in Ogaden? Should we add an article? Badagnani 00:47, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

No, but there is a city called Jijiga... ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 01:28, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I worked in Somalia (Hargeisa) and he wa known by Somali's and others as the Mad Mullah. So too in Nairobi.

[edit] Aksumite kingdom, Additions to article

I think we should add a timeline to the Aksumite Article, and add more heading like, why did it fall... etc. Cluckbang 15:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] New category proposal

Hi Yom, have you had a glance at Aecis' proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethiopia/Geography? -- llywrch 02:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Only semitic speaking Ethiopians are considered habesha

Yom, Im quite confused at why you represented habesha as the entire ethiopian population. That is incorrect. According to what you're saying, we should just merge this with the ethiopia peoples article. That is what makes the two articles unique from each other. Unless assimilated, the oromo dont consider themselves habesha. Neither do the muslims, but we cant find out how many muslims there are in each group, so we include amharas and tigrays that are both muslim and christian. Im taking out the 800,000 part. Its irrelevant in this article. Rather, it belongs in the ethiopian peoples article. Cluckbang 00:43, 15 October 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

Cluckbang, Habesha has two meanings. One is just Semitic-speaking Ethiopians and Eritreans, but another simply means "Ethiopian or Eritrean," i.e. including all the populations of those countries, whether he or she be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, or Pagan, and regardless of ethnicity. It's a term synonymous with "Ethiopian" for the period 1952-1991 when Eritrea was part of Ethiopia. The article's scope is fine as it is. I'm not proposing the article be about all the people of Ethiopia, but the inclusive definition should be included (with perhaps a note to see People of Ethiopia). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:47, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

If you live in Ethiopia you would find that the term Habesha is used loosly for all Ethiopian people. If you go to Arabia the term also refers to all Ethiopian people. So what a term means and how it is used is not always the same.---Halaqah 07:20, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amhara and tigray names, sources

Yom, I just discovered something rather quite extraordinary and phenomenal, which describes, how the Amhara and Tigrinya peoples name were formed. Did you know that there are two rivers in Iraq, called Tigris and Amhara? I read this in the Yahoo news

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061020/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=ApbIjdwWzihA0r65biSLgj5vaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ-- Cluckbang 17:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

I know of both of those putative connections, but there is certainly no relation. See the Wikipedia page on Tigris, which shows its etymology is completely different from that of Tigray (which comes from an late Aksumite tribe, "Tigretes" [Greek], or perhaps was mentioned even earlier from the Egyptian records of Punt). Amhara comes from the medieval region of the same name, whereas the region in Iraq is Amarah, lacking the pharyngeal "h" that used to be part of the word "Amhara" (in Amharic, "Amara"), so the two have different origins. The Iraq nameplace is spelled with a tāʼ marbūṭa, meaning the Ethiopian counterpart would have had a "t" at the end if the two were cognate (cp. Arabic Ḥayāh, Ge'ez Ḥiywat, "life"). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes that is true, but YOm, you must understand that the Tigris and Amara are neighboring areas jst like how Amhara and tigray areas are close to one another, so there MUST be some connection there. Also, what is earliest source of the words amara and tigray, and their meanings? Cluckbang 19:36, 21 October 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang Cluckbang 17:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Nagging you

Sorry in advance for the nagging, but you started in July translating fr:Époque hellénistique, to create Hellenistic period. Do you think to continue with the translation, or doubt you will find any time now or in the next months? Or should we attempt to search some tranlator/s? Sorry again for the badgering, and ciao.--Aldux 11:26, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I know, it's been on the back burner for some while. Fall break is coming in a week, so I should have time to finish it then. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 16:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wollamo

I notice that a discussion of Wollamo is entirely absent from Wikipedia. Shouldn't this be added? Badagnani 19:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

It's present, just under a different name. See Welayta, a disambiguation page. We have articles on the people and language (though stubs), but there still needs to be one on the kingdom. I've made it a redirect. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient Ethiopians

I have been wanting to ask you this question for a long time. Why is it that the Habashat, are referred to as an Arabian peoples (in one of the definitions in the Habesha article) living next to the Sabaeans, if you claim they dont have any relation to the Arabs? Please reply on my talkpage Cluckbang 00:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Aksum queston

Hi Yom -- I just noticed this edit to Monarchies of Ethiopia. You're better informed than me about the ancient Kingdom of Aksum: did they ever use the title "Adal Nor", or is this someone's idea of a joke? -- llywrch 23:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I can't say that I've ever heard of that title. NGS' and NGS' NGS'T are the only titles I've ever seen. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 23:44, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright problems with Image:FallenAxum.jpg

An image that you uploaded, Image:FallenAxum.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Copyright problems because it is a suspected copyright violation. Please look there if you know that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), and then provide the necessary information there and on its page, if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you.

— Indon (reply) — 09:49, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gelada

Hi Yom, The red patch on the chest of Geladas is not a taxonomic character that was used to split it from the genus Papio - rather its entirely vegetarian habit and its social structure were the primary reasons for its separation from the other baboons - a step which is still regarded as controversial amongst most primatologists. Fact is that the Gelada is still commonly regarded as a baboon - see the WP article "Baboon". The upshot of all this is that the red chest is distinctive, but is not the reason it was separated. Cheers Paul venter 15:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay. I don't really know much about the issue, but the rest of the article said that it wasn't a baboon, so I simply reverted to the internally consistent version. I'll leave you and UtherSRG to discuss the issue since you two are obviously more knowledgable. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] can you add ge'ez to the cusine page?

can you add fedel to ethiopian cusine page? --Halaqah 12:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Done — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:06, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nilo-Saharan map

Hi Yom, I have replied over there. Best, — mark ✎ 15:37, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Seen it? (You're probably busy with other things.) — mark ✎ 19:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Egyptians page

Thank you! I realize we're probably going to get into an edit war with Zerida (Masreyya from Egyptsearch?), but I still appreciate the reinforcements.

Underpants Man

[edit] Re: Kebra Nagast

Hi Yom! I hope you haven't been working too hard. About your question: I've been attempting to convincingly correlate the date from the Collophon -- "Year of Mercy 409" -- with a year in the AD era. I think it is a period of 532 years, starting with AD 7; but I won't swear that it is correct. For example, I have some calculations that I made months ago that point to AD 1301 as the equivalent to YofM 409. I've been a little frustrated about this, & I also haven't had the time to do the research I'd like to, so when I got my hands on David Hubbard's doctral thesis (which is the closest thing I've found to a scholarly work on the Kebra Nagast -- at least in English), then found he equated YofM 409 to AD 1225 (admittedly based on the calculations of Enrico Cerulli), I decided to simply quote him on the matter & let it drop until a better source can be found.

I'm just trying to be as careful as I can be with this article & not introduce anything that will stir up a hornet's nest. (I personally think that it's a pious medieval forgery with antique elements, but will not add that to the article.) I'd like to get it to A-Class quality, but my usual lack of illustrations & the fact I doubt I could present the Rastafarian POV about this article fairly will probably keep it from even achieving "Good Article" status. -- llywrch 00:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I just re-read the relevant chapter of Hubbard's monograph & the Collophon to the KN, & realized that I was not careful enough about the dates. The Collophon states that the translation from Coptic to Arabic was dated to the Year of Mercy 409, not the translation from Arabic into Ge'ez. That translation was performed at the request of governor Ya'ibika Igzi' in the early years of the Solomonic dynasty, say 1275-1325. Hubbard provides a terminus a quem in the wars of Emperor Amda Seyon with Hadd ad-Din, which he dates to 1321-1328; by that point, the Solomonic dynasty was secure in its possession of the Imperial throne, so the need for a document to legitimize the dynasty was not as strong.
The Kebra Nagast is a clearly composite document, much like the Historia Brittonum, which requires careful study & analysis to fully understand its roots & creation. Unlike the Historia Britonum, it has not received this kind of attention, & so I suspect it may be a long time before Wikipedia is able to offer an article that provides a satisfactory discussion while also meeting our standards. -- llywrch 17:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
It was Hubbard who wrote that Amde Seyon did not need to formulate a claim to the throne, not me; he can speak with more authority about the Kebra Nagast than I can. Your theory about its creation -- to legitimize the rulers of Indarta & not the Solomonic dynasty -- is intreguing, & AFAIK isn't contradicted by the facts (e.g., Hubbard detects several passages in the KN that strike at the legitimacy of the Zagwe dynasty) but the question then becomes how was the claims of the KN then transferred from the House of Indarta to the Solomonids? We have too little material for this period of Ethiopian history to offer a good answer.
BTW, I'll admit that I was entregued by Dr Leeman's suggestion that the itinerary of Menelik's journey to Jerusalem & back might be a clumsy reworking of an older itinerary that described a different journey (he uses it to support a fringe hypothesis that Israel was actually located in Western Arabia), but after re-reading that section of his book, & the relevant chapters of the KN (53 & 55), there doesn't seem to be any evidence in my eyes of an older itinerary. If the reader makes one reasonable correction (where the KN reads "Takkazi", we take it to mean "Nile" -- & the Takkazi is a tributary of the Nile), the route that Menelik I took back to Ethiopia is a well-known pilgrimage route between Ethiopia & Jerusalem, which was used up until the early 16th century (Alvarez happens to describe it at one point in his book on Ethiopia). I don't know if you were interested in that, but I had to share this dsicovery with someone! -- llywrch 19:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

hey Yom how is that possible when the majority of those images either..

  • came from my camera or from my friends
  • are Books and Magazine covers
  • screenshots
  • owner died over a 100 years ago
  • Somali websites that have put these pictures in the public domain

it would be nice if you could point out wich one you think isn't in the public domain, there's also the fact that i'm still learning how image tagging works and i could be using the wrong one's RoboRanks 11:12, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] E-Mail

Dear brother, I'd like to talk to you privately about an "urgent" matter... concerning Ethiopian history, etc. I hope you still have my e-mail address! Just write me! I've lost yours! beTam amesegenalehu! wendimih T.A.

Selam Yom! Did you get my message? --Tiqur Anbessa 16:04, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh, no problem! You don't need to rush! I'm quite busy too... I just thought that you might have not received the message! --Tiqur Anbessa 23:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] African countries by population

Hi, could you add the date and source of the data in List of African countries by population? Thanks, AxelBoldt 02:28, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the factbook notice. Which version of the factbook was it, and which year are these numbers about? Cheers, AxelBoldt 05:58, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ottoman invasion of Ethiopia

Sure, I'll be happy to reformat this. This is a part of Ethiopian history I knew just enough about to wonder if there would be any way for it to be added, & I look forward to the work. BTW, have you had an opportunity to look at Cengiz Orhonlu's Habes Eyaleti (Istanbul: University Press, 1974)? Paul Henze mentions it, but I haven't dared to file an ILL request for it because I was afraid to discover that it was written in Turkish. -- llywrch 19:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the information; I had a feeling you might know the answer. Perhaps we'll be lucky & someday someone at the Turkish Wikipedia will write a FA based on Orhonlu's research, & then the information will be translated into English. -- llywrch 23:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Update: I finally finished this chore, & added the material to Habesh. Please have a look. I hope that's what you wanted, & that I haven't made too much of a mess with the footnotes. -- llywrch 22:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Panairjdde is back

Please see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#The_return_of_User:Panairjdde.2FUser:Kwame_Nkrumah_etc. if you wish to comment. Jayjg (talk) 02:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mengistu the butcher of Addis Ababa

Regarding the Mengistu article, there have been some changes made to it which i think you should review. Most of them are unsourced. Secondly, I think some of the information all has to do with rumours. And as you know there are many rumours about him and how he lived, and some of the rumours are not true. So please read the changes made and tell me what you think. I just need a second opinion. Cluckbang 00:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] BALEGE

Ante balege yom. Arab yelenem gebahe? Que araboch ga gimash mix Ayedelanim. ASAFARI —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Not44 (talk • contribs) 15:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC).

Yom, I barely speak Amharic, but I know just enough that "balege" may be construed as a personal attack. I've blocked the user for 24 hours based on this and other abusive language. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I never said Ethiopians are mixed (diqala) with Arabs. Haplotype J was introduced 6000 years ago by the Natufians, who were an African population that spread into the Levant and much of the world causing the Neolithic revolution. Arab admixture in Ethiopia is actually very low, as the levels of J haplotype that are of recent origin (bearing a specific motif that originated some 2000 years ago) are very low (see Semino et al. 2004). The existence of the haplotype J cannot be denied however (see Semino et al. also). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User page formatting

Your user page has formatting issues in Firefox 2.0 and earlier Mozilla based browsers. I'd recommend placing {{-}} immediately after the {{Boxboxbottom}} currently on your page. That fixed the problem for me in preview. Mike Dillon 00:07, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll try that change. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:43, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New info on Egyptians

New scholarly references support your argument regarding "pure" African versus Ethiopian or Egyptian types. Check out the Controversy over racial characteristics of ancient Egyptians page. Thanks. Enriquecardova 02:14, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tigrinya qäräbä

Hi Yom. Yep, you were right on ቀረበ. — MikeG (talk) 04:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Injera

Thanks for adding the importance rating. I have no sense for how important food subjects like this are, so I usually just avoid even guessing. -- llywrch 21:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Al Amoudi

Yom, I've weighed in at Talk:Mohammed Al Amoudi, though I'm not really sure if what I've put is very helpful. Anyway, Melkam Genna! -- Gyrofrog (talk) 23:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Yom, I didn't see your message until a few minutes ago, but it appears this ethnic-related (ugh!) dispute has calmed down for the moment. Despite what Gyrofrog writes about himself, I think that his words were the best advice in this matter. I'll try to keep an eye on this article & see what I can do to help maintain the calm. -- llywrch 05:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Labialized consonants

Yom: you asked, "what do you think about the use of "ʷ" (basically superscripted "w," but distinct) for Amharic words with that form?" I just realized that this is exactly what I did for the Tigrinya article (see the phoneme chart). If we do it for one, it should certainly be done for the other Ethiopian Semitic languages. — MikeG (talk) 04:36, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abu

I see -- I do not pretend to have any knowledge of Ge'ez; but note that while I did claim the form is exclusive to Arabic in my edit summary, I do not claim so in the actual edit; all it says there is that Abu is Arabic. Now ideally, we should collect all cognate forms. We should then say that '-b is common Semitic, and that the extension a-b--w is found in Arabic and Ge'ez(?). dab (�) 22:28, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Habibti, habibati

Hi, I noticed that you changed "habibti" to "habibati" on the Habibi page. I don't know any Arabic, but I noticed that there are lots more hits for "habibti" on the web, including [1] and [2]. Maybe both versions exist and it's just a matter of different transliteration? Cheers, AxelBoldt 06:19, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archaeology and PAA

Dear Yom

Following the discussion on Proto-Semitic, I have some interesting articles on Proto-Afro-Asiatic and Proto-Semitic for you if you are interested. Could you please email me at jdcroft@yahoo.com and I can send them to you.

Regards

John D. Croft 09:21, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meb Keflezghi

Hey Merhawie, thanks for your help regarding naming conventions. Could you verify the translation I put for his name? I don't speak much Tigrinya. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:11, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

That seems fine. --Merhawie 05:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Become an admin

Why dont u become an admin?--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 20:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hi

I will be attempting to restore some order to the LEAD of saddam soon. Also plz see to History of Yemen, there is no LEAD at all. Thanks. frummer 20:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reunification

Hello Yom. Happy (Gregorian) new year. I just wanted to know if you could add your input to the Eritrean article (section :Independant Era) I added a paragraph stating that many eritreans are becoming frustrated with the government and how they would prefer reunification. Cluckbang 17:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Yeshaq

If that is the case (that there was more than one) then some way needs to be determined to differentiate that does not include the title of the person. This is per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people). There must be a better way than is currently implemented. Do you have any comments? --Merhawie 20:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

By the way, was Yeshaq the son of Dawit? If this were the case would it not be best for WP's sake to refer to him as Yeshaq Dawit and have redirects to this name? --Merhawie 03:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
The Emperor, yes, but the Wikipedia standard is to use X Y of Z for rulers (with X being the name, Y the number if s/he is a first, second, etc., and Z being the country), and the standard name by which Yeshaq is known is plain Yeshaq. None of the Emperors are known by their full names: even the modern ones are known by their throne names (and while Tewodros and Yohannes are sometimes distinguished with their fathers' names because of their similar first names, the same is never done for Minilik, Tekle Haymanot, or the earlier Emperors). Yeshaq, the Bahr negus, cannot be said to be more well-known than Yeshaq, the Emperor, so a disambiguation should involve the changing of the article name of the Bahr negus, since a formula is already used for the Emperor. There is also the Yeshaq of the Kebra Nagast to take into account, whose father's name we do not know. I don't see why we can't change Bahr negus Yeshaq into Yeshaq (Bahr negus) to distinguish him, though (and the other Yeshaq perhaps as Yeshaq (Kebra Nagast) or with some other spelling for the book). What do you think? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:11, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I believe your suggestion is adequate. However, should Bahr Negus be converted to the English name or should it be kept the same? My gut tells me it should be kept as Bahr Negus...but whatever. Furthermore, would you like to go through and do the renaming or should I? --Merhawie 03:28, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
I would keep it at Bahr negus, too. It doesn't particularly translate well into English ("Sea King"), and other names have not been translated (e.g. Ras, Mekonnen, Negus, Dejazmach, Meridazmach). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you...

Salam Yom,

How are you doing? Thanks for watching over the yemeni articles, since Im not around here alot. Jidan 15:20, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sheep & Begemder

I admit, I've never been to that part of Ethiopia, but Huntingford & Beckingham quote Beke on raising sheep in Begemder (whose words I paraphrased). I didn't attribute the quotation to him because I didn't have access to his original work wherein he expounds on this. -- llywrch 21:00, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The thing is, Begemdir is roughly equivalent with today's Debub Gondar Zone, for which you have sources noting there are 0.6 livestock per head, or about 1.5 million total. While this doesn't necessarily include sheep, Begemdir is not at all a dry region. Its northern border, for instance, is formed by the Tekezé River, whose source is around eastern Begemdir/western Wollo. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Somaliland

If Somaliland only disputed the territory with the government, and if Somaliland hadn't agreed to a set line of control with Puntland, I would agree. However Somaliland and Puntland have signed an armistice with a set line of control, and Puntland also claims the territory as its own AND controls it. --Ingoman 01:26, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Black people

Please see the talk page about that image. futurebird 13:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question on a link

Was this linking an error. I chnged it to Ogaden (clan) because that would seem better than the town. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

No problem. I thought that was it. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 10:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Thanks re Halaqah

I know the spelling in Arabic and i knew the Amharic was wrong ( i knew someone would tell me sooner or later--it was later), i only learned the fedel in late years and dont get the fine vowels, very difficult. cheers.but the (ቃ) isnt that like Kebe a very K sound as opposed to a "QUAH--HalaTruth(ሀላካሕ) 01:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Vexperiential

Yom, if you have more than a suspicion that this user is the same person as Minorcorrections, you can always post a request at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets. I'll agree that it is suspicious that someone who writes on his user page "I'm very very new to wikipedia so be kind" then indulges in an edit war over Mohammed Al Amoudi is not a newbie. -- llywrch 22:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eritrean polotics

Hello Yom! Melcam Asterio and Gena. Yes, Ive been very busy lately. What I meant is that many Eritreans (even pro Shaebians) are becoming frustrating with the current government of Isias Afewerki. He is considered to be an "okay" leader since he has done alot for the Eritrean people. However, currently, when you consider what he is doing, making bad comments about the US and provoking another war with Ethiopia, with a population consisting of a mere 4 million people. So basically, to put it short, many would prefer a reunification with Ethiopia since they believe they would have had more freedom (no conscription). Easy border crossing, no fear of war, better economy, and close cultures. You may not realize this but the Afar tribes in Eritrea are trying to reunite with thos e in Ethiopia. However, in most cases, right now Im speaking for the Eritrean Tigrinyas. At the same time, some would say after all that fighting, is it worth it to reunite? Moreless, what i meant by reunification is for freedom, not for the love of Ethiopia. However, I think we all know that it is impossible. You and I both know what is happening in Ethiopia and Eritrea and the economic crises, but when I wrote that sentence, I wrote it for those people like ferenjoch who dont know much about our people. However, Im not saying that I want Eritrea to reunite with Ethiopia. Well, all the best. See you in a while. Also, do you think the monarchy of Ethiopia will once again return to power (telling from their history)? Cluckbang 00:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang

[edit] Eritrean War of Independence

On the page you made mention of Derg in the Infobox. Obviously the War of Independence was against the Government of Haile Selassie and the Derg. Was your reference to the flag? How it only represented that of the Derg's Ethiopia (until I believe 1987?)? Otherwise I do not agree with the alternative implication. Further more I also noticed that you removed the Cuba and USSR listings from the same page. In the summary you note that Soviet troops and Cuban troops did not participate. However, this is not true as Soviets were captured at the Battle of Afabet and Cubans at the Battle of Tessenei...--Merhawie 02:27, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mengistu Haile Mariam

Re: User:Ploughman is a sock of User:Jacob Peters - a notorious and banned editor. While you won't have any more trouble from Ploughman, you'll want to keep your eyes open for the same type of POV edits in the future. He's been at this for many months now. Rklawton 02:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Issues at Zanj

I suspect that the editor AnonMoos is violating the CIVIL rules and constantly changing things on the page Zanj which contradicted the listed sources given. Claiming to be a master of Arabic but not a native speaker of Arabia, refuses to discuss. Anyway input needed, as i know Zanj was not used for all Africans hence the meaning refs to certain East African groups. I really though he understood from the prior discussion, but maybe he attended a few more night classes in Arabic and returned 2 challenge me.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 19:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aleqa

I found the "Alèqa" spelling on a large number of English-language sites; are you sure that it's French? (The ssame for Alemu Aga‎.) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 00:05, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm pretty sure. In fact, the most common English name might be "Alaqa" based on the old tradition of transliterating that second vowel with "ä" (first order vowel in the Ge'ez alphabet). The French transcribe that first order vowel with "è." You may have found that spelling due to influence from Ethiopiques, a French publication of Ethiopian songs. If you feel it's significant, it can still be noted in the first sentence, though. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:08, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
You're right that I first came across Alemu Aga‎, and started an article on him, because of the Ethiopiques albums, but I then did a lot of research on the Internet. Given that this is a very common spelling, perhaps it should be mentioned in the lead, yes. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Filing a complaint against Asian2duracell

I am sending you this message in regards to a report I am filing against Asian2duracell to the Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration. He has been found guilty of racial intollerance, name calling, trolling, sock puppetry, and vandalism. All other methods of conflict resolution have been tried and failed. Please let me know that you are aware of this request and if you would like to participate in this. Regards. Wiki Raja 01:14, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irobs

This is a problem when ethnicity and language groupings collide, especially in Ethiopia. Saho is a language and not an ethnic group (at least according to the Irob). See, the Irobs claim to be descendants of Summe who came from central Tigray area. They just happen to speak Saho. Therefore, they don’t claim any “ethnic” or tribal connection to the Sahos of Eritrea. Also, Irobs are pretty evenly split between Tewahido and Ge’ez Rite Catholic. Actually, the Tewahidos might even be the majority-not sure about this. Actually, Soubagadis was Tawahido. I’m looking to add a link to Irob separate from the Saho link, just to clarify and elaborate on the differences. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Assimba (talk • contribs) 19:47, 12 February 2007.

Yom, this user also insists that the woreda Gulomahda is better transliterated as "Gulomakda", per his edits to this article. Your opinion? -- llywrch 20:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
"Gulomahda" is the CSA transliteration; you can find the Ge'ez version on the PDF of Table B.4 from their website. The telecom.net.et link mentions Zalambessa as part of Gulo Makeda, which solidifies the identification, & in retrospect the "Makeda" part makes perfect sense.
I'd rather not include the dash if you don't mind, to keep the usage consistent with the other compound names in the articles I've created so far. -- llywrch 23:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
PS - I'm puzzled by the mention of "Ambalaga woreda" in this article you pointed me to. I can't find that I've created an article about it in the Tigray Region -- nor all of Ethiopia. Should we assume that this is another recent administrative adjustment that hasn't reached the CSA? -- llywrch 23:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for clarification of number of Tigrinya speakers

Hello,

In your revision of the Tigrinya language article as of 17:05, 13 February 2006 you cited three sources in support of the number of Tigrinya speakers indicated in the table. I've marked this fragment of text with the tag: [Quotation from source requested on talk page to verify interpretation of source]. Please read Talk:Tigrinya language#Number of speaker in table not corroborated by given sources for more details. Thanks Itayb 17:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


As you've written in your message to me, in '94 6.1% of the population was roughly 3 million people (p. 3 of Dr. Abegaz's article states the '94 population size was 53 million). In your message to me you try to calculate the current number of speakers by using the '94 percentage with the current population size. This is an example of original research, which is discouraged in Wikipedia). In fact, the national statistics report you mention in your message states (table B1 on page 6) that the '06 number of Tigray is 4335 thousands in a population of 75067 thousands, i.e. 5.8%. But even if you take the 6.2% figure which is mentioned in Ethiopia#Demographics (probably relying on Dr. Abegaz's article) as the percentage of the Tigray ethnic group, you still get at most 4654.154 thousand Tigray. This is more than 2 million people less than the number of total speakers indicated in the table in the Tigrinya language article.

You've written in your message, that "There are another few hundred thousand or so speakers outside of Tigray, and a few hundred thousand in the diaspora (see http://www.joshuaproject.net/ for diaspora numbers)." The Joshua Project references the Ethnologue listing, and the Ethnologue listing states that the total number of Tigrigna speakers in all countries is 4,449,875 (they seem to rely on the 1998 census).

I've changed the number in the table as well as the associated citations. I hope you approve. Itayb 10:06, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


I've requested a third opinion on this matter. Itayb 16:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I've added to the request links to the Semitic languages page and its talk page. Itayb 16:47, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
The user Grouse accepted the request for a third opinion. He wrote his opinion here. Do you accept this opinion? Itayb 22:20, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: State leaders

Yom, you're probably right about it, but my primary interest is to get some of the missing entries on those pages. I figure once that is done, then the entries can be polished -- if you take a look at the various pages, you'll see a lot of discrepencies between those entries. -- llywrch 04:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

About your dates: I tried one of the converters listed at Ethiopian calendar (this one), converted the years AD to their EC equivalents, typed them in, & this is what I got:
  • For the Solomonic restoration - 10 Nehase (becomes 12-10) AD 1270 (becomes EC 1262) -> 10 August 1270;
  • For the day Zara Yaqob died - 16 Sene (becomes 10-16) AD 1468 (becomes EC 1460) -> 19 June 1468.
You may want to submit my math to a sanity check just to be sure, but the results are very close to my own back-of-the-envelope calculations predicted. -- llywrch 03:52, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
The second date is actually for the death of Yekuno Amlak, not Zara Yaqob. My only concern is that those translators might not take into account the difference in dates for EC 1999 (the current year) vs. EC 1262, since the beginning and end of the year change every 200 years (September 11th is the first of the year in the EC only for 1901-2099, before then it was a different date, and so on as you get farther back). Did your calculations take that into effect, and do you think that this calculator is that in depth (it seems legitimate, but I'm not sure)? If so, it'll be a very useful tool, since it works for all dates, and I'll include these conversions on the respective articles. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 07:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aksum InfoBox

Hi. Good job on the Aksumite page. I'm doing work on the Mali Empire page and want to put in an infobox like yours. The problem is, I'm clueless on how to do so. I tried to copying an info box template but it came out funny. can u hip me to the template you used sinc it would be more appropos than using the template for a still existing country.

thanx in advance & keep up the good work Scott Free 23:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question about ARDUF article

Good job with the ARDUF article, but I have a question.

In this article you state: an Eritrean attack on the town of Alitena, inhabited primarily by Irob people (an ethnicity closely related both linguistically and historically to Afars)

Do you base this assertion of historical affinity on some evidence or is it just speculation? The source you cite doesn't support that statement. Just wanted to ask before editing.Assimba

[edit] ==Map==

Hey Yom since when was Italian a native or Official language of Ethiopia or Somalia? do you know how to change these maps?

.
.
During the Military Junta of the 70's Somali became the official language and the other languages over time were neglected and today probably a few hundred remain who can speak italian fluently, English on the other hand is a different story since it's a universal language and continues to be taught in schools.
About the Libyan case i found a pdf file saying this..Arabic is the Official language in Libya, English and Italian are widely spoken in Hotels,shops and traditional markets. French is also spoken but mainly in the southern areas[3] RoboRanks 23:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your work

Thanks you for all your work on various African history pages, like Afrocentrism, Cheikh Anta Diop, and Racial Characteristics of he Ancient Egyptians. There is a persistent clique centeed in a certainProject Group, (I will not name names yet) attempting to disrupt the page and remove balanced scholarship. As another user has written recently, their methods are dishonest and deceptive, and include:

  • (1) Stealth inserts and removal of scholarship they don't like. A typical maneuver is not to Edit a section directly. They call up the whole page to edit, and don't leave behind any edit summary so it is more difficult to trace what they are doing. Anonymous IPs are sometimes used or sock accounts
  • (2) Another dodge is a "good cop, bad cop" routine where one will assume the pretence of "conciliator" on one hand, while with the other they stealthily undo changes they don't like. Beware of those who appear to be "objective conciliators" supposedly showing "evenhandedness" in criticizing "excesses". They themselves are part of it.
  • (3) When these methods fail they resort to wholesale page blanking or rapid reversions. The purpose of rapid reversions is to trap and provoke otherwise legitimate editors into making many repairs or violating the 3RR rule. They then use this "evidence" to carry out their fourth dodge:
  • (4) Use of adminsitrative harassment to remove competing scholarship. This takes the form of AFds, RFIs, tagging personal pages with "warnings", "incident" reports to Administrators, and other forms of harassment. It is a dishonest and deceptive clique at work here.
  • They will wait until you are less active then do wholesale reverts by stealth to your edits and additions. Their purpose is simple. They want pages in constant turmoil, because that creates a weak article and prevents certain other scholarship from being honestly represented. One honest broker on other pages has been NewEnglandYankee who has intervened to reverse several of these types of edits on related topics.

Request you help monitor these articles mentioned above over an extended period to ensure the deceptive methods are not being used. Jollypops 07:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Axom (Axum) vs Aksum (Aksom?)

I started writing this topic on the appropriate talk page, but it was too short, and I didn't like my tone of writing (so I figured long-ish edit summaries would be a good substitute for a talk page topic). I don't know this subject outside of Wikipedia, so it's kind of like drawing a name out of a hat, for me. When the article said "properly Aksum", I ran with it. I hope I haven't caused too much trouble, I think my changes are fairly easily revertable (and considering I made them about an hour ago, I don't think there are many intermediate edits to worry about).

On the subject of translation, syllabic equivalences, and lexical approximation, a lot can probably be said, but I'm not a expert on that either, so I'll use my lips to close my mouth, rather than my foot. ;) Xaxafrad 08:18, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Number of Tigrinya Speakers Dispute: Let's Try to Work This Out

Yom,

I agree with your critique, that the actual number of Tigrinya speakers is probably significantly higher than Ethnologue's stated 4.5 million. In fact, the previous Ethnologue report itself claimed there were 5.1 million Tigrigna speakers. The reason i insist on stating the current Ethnologue figure, is that this is the only sourced figure - flawed as it is - i've seen so far, that attempts to determine a total number of Tigrigna speakers taking into account the whole world population.

Your calculations may be more reasonable and more accurate, but my concern is that they fall under the rubric of original research, which is to be avoided in Wikipedia as per the attribution policy. You seem to be making "the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article in order to advance position C". However, that constitutes original research.

Do you not agree that the figure you've stated for the number of Tigrinya speakers is the result of a calculation, a synthesis of different sources? Do you not agree that the figure i have stated for this number is not a synthesis of any sort, and is well-attributed as per the Wikipedia policy? Are you aware of the fact that a third opinion was given on this matter (by Grouse here), and that it unambiguously supported using the Ethnologue figure rather than a calculation? Do you not agree, that original research is unacceptable in Wikipedia?

I can't accept the figure for the number of Tigrinya speakers that you state in the article, namely 6.75, reasonable as it is, unless it is attributable to a reliable source. You seem to be unwilling to accept the Ethnologue figure, and to insist on stating the result of your calculation in the article. We are obviously having a content/policy dispute, and seem not to be able to get through to each other. But edit-war is unacceptable, and yet we have to work it out somehow, don't you agree? Do you have any suggestion? Itayb 08:47, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfC re Number of Speakers of the Tigrinya Language

I've made an RfC (the request as of 07:19, 1 March 2007) in this matter. I've also linked to it from the Wikipedia's attribution policy's talk page. I've also contacted Mustafaa and MikeGasser, asking them to voice their opinions on this matter, whatever they be. Itayb 07:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm responding to the Wikipedia's attribution policy's talk page request. From what I've seen so far, Itayb's position is the correct one. I am next going to look at Talk:Tigrinya language and Talk:Semitic languages. These things are often solved by accurate identification of the claim (example: quotes from the sources) combined with full disclosure about the reliability of the sources (examples: date written, what the source claims its evidence is). The trick is to not include in the article original research about why the source is reliable while still using the talk page to actually do original research about various sources' reliablility. It can get tricky, so having experienced editors help with the wording can be useful. The end result should read clear, precise, relevant, attributed to reliable published sources and clearly lets the readers decide the truth for themselves. WAS 4.250 20:04, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
I looked at Talk:Tigrinya language and Talk:Semitic languages and Itayb's position is clearly the correct one. Others are pitching in to help. If anyone wishes anything further from me on this issue, please say so on my palk page. For now it looks to be in good hands. WAS 4.250 20:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Oh, one more thing; sometimes putting details in a footnote helps solve editing problems when one person thinks its too much detail for the article but another thinks its too important to leave out. Details on the reliability of a claim in an article for example. WAS 4.250 20:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Shalwar vs. Salwar Redux

Hi, Since you had posted an opinion on the preferred (Wikipedia) spelling of this apparel, I was wondering if you could respond to Shalwar vs. Salwar Redux. Thanks. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 21:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ahmad Gragn & the Somali people

Hi Yom, just dropping a note that I added some material from the Futuh in the Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi that suggest that he might not be Somali. I thought you might want to know about it ahead of time before the fireworks start. -- llywrch 00:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

One of the frustrations with using the Futuh on Wikipedia is that I have been unable to find much secondary literarue discussing it. You may have a point about possible OR there -- but when I re-read it for clues on Ahmad Gragn's ethnicity, I was struck by how often the author fails to take advantage of the opportunity to state whether he was Somali; & a few of the passages were written to suggest that he was not.
As for Ahmad Gragn's time amongst the Somali, your comments make me see that I could have written that portion much better. Not only did he live amongst them, but was treated with a great amount of veneration, & accepted his judgements in settling feuds and other conflicts. While Somali culture may have changed greatly in the last 500 years, from what I know of it I find it hard to believe that they would defer to the guidance of a Muslim non-Somali -- even an Imam; thus I see it as evidence that he might be Somali.
But my concern is not with trying to prove one thing or another; the section needs more work. I'm more concerned that some Somali POV-pusher will delete or mangle this section, & deny that there is any opposing evidence about the Imam's ethnicity. -- llywrch 19:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
About Sultan Muhammed bin Ali of the Zarba: the Futuh is somewhat contradictory about his relationship to Ahmad Gragn. In one passage, it states he was the son of the Imam's father's sister (p. 69); in another, he is the son of the Imam's mother's sister (p. 44). My guess is that either the writer of the Futuh had a momentary lapse, or there is a scribal error in the transmission of the text -- which can be confusing in places. I don't think one could conclude that we have a case of brother-sister marriage here. (About the only place I know of where this has been documented is anceint Egypt, & even the evidence there only proves that it happened -- not that it was widely accepted.)
PS, I meant to add this above: I have never encountered "jobsworth" before. An interesting word. -- llywrch 20:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I was hoping you'd be correct about this article: the first shot was just fired about that edit. -- llywrch 20:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Hey Yom i just purchased that book on Amazon so it might take a while untill i can join the discussion, but fact of the matter is those personal interpretations of the Futuh is not what wikipedia is made for, it's not about personal opinions or appealling to popularity by asking the reader questions. To Llywrch please don't compare me to a roving vandal, that first shot was needed since i was being ignored on the discussion page if tommorow the Futuh part 2 was found and it said he was an Afar it would not matter to me so i'm not here to push a Somali POV -RoboRanks 03:31, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent war in Somalia

Hi,

I wonder if you know of any official Ethiopian casualties number given by the government. If yes, notice me and give source. Thank you. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Werji people

A tag has been placed on Werji people, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. SyBerWoLff 23:46, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Do not feed the troll

You will notice people will try and provoke you will their crap. engage you in stupid debates about 1/2 Arab. I would say dont worry about them. I have blocked all of that content in the Black people page and other editors are doing it. Dont feed them, they like it. The editor you are dealing with has a long long history of this. esp on that topic. None of the content appears in the article that is the mainthing, It is how people exhaust you. I believe it is important for racist Academics to introduce this concept because not only do Ethiopians and Kemet have a link but Ethiopia is a sig civilization which supports the fact that Africans are amazing. there is nothing more. Do you know they said the samething about the fulani? The Notourious Oxford study has been doing the rounds, now it is being forced into Habasha, i got it pulled from black people. copy and paste where ever they can fit it.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 09:44, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need help with Oromia woredas/districts

Hi, going by Tadesse Meskela's comments on the Black Gold discussion board, he's given the two coffee growing locations shown in the film:

  1. the Kilenso Mokonisa Cooperative in the Bure Hora District, Borena Zone, Oromia Region
  2. Negele Gorbitu Cooperative, in Abaya District, Borena Zone, Oromia Region.

In the Borena Zone page, however, these districts are called woredas, and the names of the woredas aren't quite the same as the way Meskela gives them (the most similar ones are Bore and Gelana Abaya; all are redlinked presumably because we don't have enough Oromo Wikipedians yet). In the film, the caption says that the second location is in Yirgacheffe. Can you help sort this out so we get it just right? Badagnani 06:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Badagnani, the problem with woredas in Ethiopia is that verifiable sources that can provide information about them is hard to come by. Current information even harder. There are two Zones whose woredas I still need to create articles about, after which I hope someone with better access to the needed information can maintain them. -- llywrch 00:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Panairjdde

Volunteers are being sought to help enforce the community ban on Panairjdde. I know that he's frequently crossed your path while editing, so I thought you might be interested. Drop by the page. Thanks! --Palffy 02:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Islam by country

I tried the talk page of that article, but I never got any reply, so since you are editing the page I figured I'd see if you knew. What's the source for the regional numbers? The Caribbean section 15,860 Muslims, but one country in the Caribbean (Trinidad and Tobago) has over 65,000. Are there -50,000 is the rest of the region? :) Guettarda 21:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Date of Atronsa Maryam's destruction

Hi Yom -- I don't know which date is correct. I don't have access to Budge's book at the moment, but he can be sloppy about his facts so he might have written both dates. I'll try & see what I can do. -- llywrch 00:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

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