Talk:Yin and yang

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Contents 1 edit table? 2 Common misconception 3 Korean Flag = 4 Related to Helegian concept of dialetic 5 Text moved from Yin-yang 6 Text moved from Traditional Chinese medicine 6.1 Yin Yang 7 Qinway Qigong link 8 Question 9 666999 =YinYang 10 Yin Yang or Yin and Yang? 11 Possible Copyvio 12 Section to Add 13 three part yin/yang 14 Title 15 Requested move 15.1 Survey 15.2 Discussion 16 Principles item 6 17 "Yin" or "Ying"... "Yan" or "Yang"? 18 Possible Error? 19 which is which? 20 HELP! Vandalism! 21 Which side is which? 22 Western culture views Yin and Yang as Good and Evil? 23 yin yang in Albania

[edit] edit table?

hi, i cant figure out how to edit the table on the page that shows yin-yang oppositions. i would like to enter an additional such opposition: sugar as yin, salt as yang. any info on how i can do this?

[edit] Common misconception

A common misconception is that the colours black and white used in the taiji symbol are properties of yin and yang. Rather they are used to symbolise darkness and light. The relationship between the colours black and white is not the same as that between yin and yang, i.e. black is not the absence of white. Darkness, however is the absence of light.

[edit] Korean Flag =

This article should discuss the presence of the yin/yang in the flag of Korea. 1) That it is there 2) Why it is there

CrankyK

[edit] Related to Helegian concept of dialetic

Hegel is one of the few Western philosophers to really attempt to digest and articulate this profoundly occidental philosophical paradigm. In particular, the Hegelian notion of Aufhebeng (becoming and going away) is about as close as you get in Western philosophy to really describing the paradox of describing the stable process of constant change from thesis to antithesis.

CrankyK

_______________________________________________________________

It's OK. That's what I've written in the French version on "Interprétations occidentales".

Ce "contraste harmonisé" du Yin-Yang est celui du chaud-froid, haut-bas, lumière-ombre, blanc-noir, femelle-mâle, des complémentarités antagonistes enchevêtrées avec les antagonismes complémentaires entrelacés. En optique physique, c'est le jeu de l'onde et du corpuscule en alternance et altercation réunies par la constante de Louis de Broglie. En chimie, c'est l'acidité et l'alcalinité réunies, séparées et contrastées au pH 7. En phiolosophie, c'est le verbe "Aufheben" de Hegel qui signifie, à la fois, "apparaître", disparaître et "conserver" (dans la composante alémanique Souabe), verbe utilisé par Freud pour décrire l'inconscient.

• "[...] Change is the result of combinations and separations of the four indestructible elements, like a painter mixing colors, said Empedocles; it is governed by two cosmic principles, Love ( attraction or Aphrodite), the original source of organic unity and creative combination, and Strife (repulsion or Quarrel), the principle of diversity and differienciation. The life cycle of the cosmos thus oscillates in cycles between unity and diversity (Kahn, 1968). (In the Chinese tradition the cosmic principles are Yin and Yang, and the elements are five: earth, fire, water, wood, and metal. Aristotle reserved the fifth and unchanging element, the 'quintessence' or 'ether', whose 'nature' is to move in circles, for the heavenly bodies, which he held to be perfect and imperishable)". Anthony Wilden, "The Rules are no Game. The Strategy of Communication", p. 153, Routledge & Kegan Paul, 432 pages, London and New York, 1986.

Takima 21:24, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Text moved from Yin-yang

Often used contemprarily as a symbol of peace or love, the Ying Yang is a sign of Eastern origin, specifically of Chinese Taoism philosophy and representing interpenetration and interdependence of all universal things. One half of the symbol being 'Ying' and the other 'Yang', the two entities embody and complement eachother.

One might derive personal meanings from the Ying Yang such as the relationship between man and woman or that of the individual and society.

The text above was written at Yin-yang. I moved it here. I ask the author or anyone else to merge it with the main article at Yin yang. Optim 16:08, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I don't think Yin-yang should redirect here. The yin-yang is a symbol more than it is a concept, and as such I think it shold redirect to Taijitsu instead of here. Anyone else have an opinion?Shaggorama 05:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Text moved from Traditional Chinese medicine

The text following is removed from the traditional Chinese medicine page as an effort to thin that page down. Please feel free to merge it into the main yin yang article. heidimo 15:56, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

Why remove this? Yin and yang is central to the understanding of TCM. In fact, it can be said to be the basis of TCM; without it, it can't be well understood. Mandel 23:25, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

---

[edit] Yin Yang

The most fundamental concept in TCM is the philosophical construct of Yin Yang, complementary qualities seen in all natural phenomena. Yin and yang are not forces, energies, or material substances; neither are they irrational mystical concepts (though they do not work well with Aristotelian logic). Yin Yang is a way of thinking about phenomena, and a way to describe how things function and interact with each other in the Universe.

The Chinese characters for Yin and yang are derived from pictographs for, respectively, the shady and sunny sides of a hill. This relationship is an example of several elements of the Yin Yang dynamic; there can be no shady side without the sunny side, and one transforms into the other as the day progresses. On the sunny side there are shady spots (under a tree, for example), while on the shady side there are bright spots (in a clearing). These exemplify yin within yang and yang within yin, respectively. By extension, the artificiality of discriminations between yin and yang is posited, informing the traditional Chinese medical practitioner that in some cases yin and yang are plastic metaphors based on relative points of view rather than an absolute identity, a non-dualistic dynamic represented by the Taoist and Neo-Confucian icon known as the Taijitu.

Yin is used to describe phenomena which are dark, cool, at rest, down, inward, female, still, and/or decreasing. Yang corresponds to bright, warm, active, up, outward, male, and/or increasing. Within the human body, certain elements are considered more yin and some more yang: the front is considered more yin, the back more yang; the upper part yang, the lower part yin; the interior yin, and the exterior yang.

Simplisticly speaking, fever, irritability, and redness from blood rushing to the skin are signs of too much yang, or not enough yin to balance the yang. Coldness, lethargy, and paleness are signs of excess yin or deficient yang. Medicines and treatments are classified as to their ability to strengthen or disperse yin and yang. Because of the continuous movement of change and the interactions between yin and yang, actual situations are usually far more complex than this example.

In the West, Yin Yang are sometimes associated with sexual terms, which leads to some major misconceptions about Chinese medicine. One such misconception is that a Chinese herbal medicine such as rhinoceros horn is used primarily as an aphrodisiac. This is not true, as rhinoceros horn is intended mainly as a fever reducer, and has a number of substitutes.

[edit] Qinway Qigong link

I've removed a link that seems to be plain old advertising: I saw a bit of content on the linked site that seemed generally informational (though I can't speak to its real relevance to this page or to the subject of qigong), but it all seemed to be leading you toward signing up for some workshops and/or buying some products. (Any site whose front page has "before" and "after" pictures . . .)

From what I've seen of Wikipedia and read on the help pages, I get the pretty clear impression that this is not the sort of thing that should be here. Apologies if I'm dead wrong.Iralith 22:15, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Question

I was under the impression that the Yin-Yang concpet could not be used for Good and Evil, yet in this article I found refernce to that. Can anyone explain? I thought the dualty of Good and Evil was used only in Manichæism. Here is a link to an article that talks about this: [1]

Thanks for pointing this out. I believe that the definition of yin and yang in the article is consistant with what you are suggesting. There was one example that used good and evil which seemed inconsistent with the rest of the article, so I removed it. I think that the following statement from the article is clear on this point:

Yin and Yang are equally important, unlike the typical dualism of good and evil. Sunray 09:46, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)

[edit] 666999 =YinYang

"5. Yin and yang can transform into one another.

At a particular stage, yin can transform into yang and vice versa. For example, night changes into day; warmth cools; life changes to death"

see also 999 / 666 Number of the Beast (numerology)

[edit] Yin Yang or Yin and Yang?

Lowellian moved the article of Yin yang to Ying and yang. Does this reflect common usage in English? As far as I have checked on Google, the former is commoner. In Chinese, Korean, and Japanese, the terms for the dualism are equivalents of yin yang, not yin and yang. - TAKASUGI Shinji 00:08, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

Yes, I was wondering about this too. It might have been nice if Lowellian had communicated his reasons for the move. Yin Yang certainly is more common. One reason that Lowellian may have done it is because for years, in English, there was a rude expression ("up the Ying-Yang"), sometimes still used, which was likely a bastardization of Yin Yang. He may have wished to avoid this association. Sunray 02:00, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

Uh, if you guys were curious, why didn't you just ask me directly on my user talk page instead of speculating about my motives on this talk page and assuming (incorrectly, in this case) that I monitor this page all the time (which is the reason why this response comes two months late)? In any case, here's a couple more reasons why the page should be at yin and yang: Googling "yin yang" does yield more results than "yin and yang", but this includes results which shouldn't be counted, such as pinyin transliterations of the Chinese term or the term "yin-yang" used to refer (not quite correctly) to the taijitu rather than the concepts of yin and yang. Also, the article is actually about the concepts of yin and yang. Suppose we had an article about the concepts of light and dark, as compared with each other. We would not name the article "light dark"; we would name the article "light and dark". Yes, the Chinese term, 陰陽, does transliterate to yin yang in pinyin but a translation into English might well be "yin and yang" since the "and" is implied (as in many other Chinese two-character compounds). —Lowellian (talk) 15:31, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

I agree that Yin and Yang makes better sense in English than the (IMHO) inelegant "Yin Yang," and is therefore better for the primary article. Redirects are cheap! Fire Star 19:50, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Copyvio

Marked with copyvio due to two source links leading back to Encyclopedia Britanica[2], yet without an actual account on that site, it can't be verified. The links were added by Curtis Davis ([[User:]]) on June 13 (hist)

…Guy M… ^(soapbox) 11:01, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Can't we simply revert back to the 12 June, 2005 version? there was a lot on here that wasn't sourced from EB. Fire Star 02:54, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

From the copyvio policy page: "Pages where the most recent edit is a copyright violation, but the previous article was not, should not be deleted. They should be reverted." I reverted article to 12 June, 2005 version. Fire Star 03:07, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

When the article starts the section Meaning of Terms it states the following: Because yin means "sunny", it corresponds to the day and more active functions. Whereas yang, meaning "shady", corresponds to night and less active functions

Isn't that wrong? Shouldn't yin mean shady and yang be sunny? Throughout the rest of the text the mistake is continued, even though we are told to look at the chart: Yin and yang can be compared in the chart to the right. But looking at the chart would only confirm that the article got yin and yang backwards.

-greenheart (chuck1815@yahoo.com)

[edit] Section to Add

I would like someone to add something on this, but I don't want to because I don't have proper sources and I wouldn't know where to add it.

My history teacher explained the meaning of the yin yang symbol to me like this: At the height of yin their you find yang. At the height of yang - you find yin. This is the meaning of the two dots in the symbol. They are supposed to be the most important part. A bit of yin at the strongest point of yang. I think the point is that they are in-seperable. Could someone who understands this better please add this?--God of War 18:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I would like to add the following external link. It is a good translation of the basics of Yin and Yang theory from historical chinese text.

• Yin and Yang Yin and Yang information page.

[edit] three part yin/yang

There is also sometimes seen a three part yin/yang, what does that signify? Chris 00:56, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

May have a partial answer at Taeguk Chris 08:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title

The Title should be reverted to Yin and Yang as Yang is a proper noun.--JP 15:17, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Yang is no more a proper noun than "light and dark" are proper nouns. —Lowellian (reply) 21:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Principles item 6

I like the item, but the part about the 'dots' is a personal annoyance. They have not always existed in the image to the taichi, though I am having trouble determining the origin. I will likely complete my research, and start a new wiki topic regarding the taichi symbol itself. In the mean time, I propose that reference to the 'dots' be taken out in this context, as it works just as well to say that in any radial from the center of the taichi there is both black and white on the radial (though technically there are 2 lines where this is not true) Technotaoist 06:33, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I read the Yin and Yang article and was thrown of course when the first sentence said "the misconception of yin and yang..." Whether or not we belief the Yin-YAng philosophy, is it not still a concept, rather than a MISconcept? I changed it from misconcept to concept, because I suspected it was vandalisim.

Was I right in my edit? What are your opinions?

Thanks,

--Bewildered reader

You were right in removing the 'mis' part, Bewildered. It was probably another damn hell-forsaken troll trying to be funny. I hope he gets leprosy and starves to death in a dumpster in New England. Smith Jones 23:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Yin" or "Ying"... "Yan" or "Yang"?

The title of this article is "Yin and Yang". "Yin and yang" is the most common name for this concept. So why does the entire article use "ying" instead of "yin"? While the popularity of a term is a factor, in the end, as an encyclopedia, we have the obligation to set things straight with what the correct term is. Now since I have no expertise in this matter, I'm asking this as a question (as opposed to rhetoric): What is the proper (Pinyin, Wade, etc.) transliteration for these terms? Are the vowels long (implying no 'g') or short? 24.126.199.129 02:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The correct transliteration, whether using pinyin or Wade-Giles, is yin (not ying) and yang (not yan). The absence or presence of the g has nothing to do with the length of the vowels, though; it has to do with the ending sound. —Lowellian (reply) 21:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Error?

After correctly connecting yin with the the Moon and yang with the Sun, the first paragraph ends with a summating sentence: "Yin is often symbolized by fire, while Yang is symbolized by water." However, the Sun is explicitly linked with the element of Fire in the Daoist cosmology, as with the Moon and elemental Water. Typically, yin is linked with Water, and yang with Fire. I don't know whether whoever wrote this sentence was just confused, or whether they have some alternate source to support this sentence. I'm changing it for now. SumeragiNoOnmyouji 07:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

There has been a long history of drive by editors reversing the attributes. Since "Yin never leaves yang and yang never leaves yin" they may feel that they are correct, but I agree that the most attested correlations should be those listed, as in your recent correction. --Fire Star 火星 13:32, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] which is which?

Which is yin, and which is yang? I can never remember. 69.205.56.80 23:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)Keyblade Mage

.... It says right in the article. Disinclination 02:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HELP! Vandalism!

I can't seem to get rid of this. It doesn't show up in the editor, so far as I can tell. End of the Summary section, just above See Also. Not quite sure why I can't erase it, but I would if I could. 70.176.178.118 02:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

You might be seeing a previous verson of the page. If there was any vandalism, it is gone now. :) Disinclination 05:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Which side is which?

I'm not sure which side was yin, and which was yang, does anyone know? And shouldn't this be in the article somewhere anyway? Keyblade Mage 15:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)Keyblade Mage

I don't think it matters what 'side' it is on. You could simply turn the symbol around, and find them on opposite 'sides'. Yin and yang isn't about what side is 'right' and what side is 'wrong. It's about.. well.. read the article. :P Disinclination 18:23, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I mean, is the black side yin, or yang? And is the white side yang, or yin? Get me? 'Cause Yin represents this, and that, and yang is supposed to be there for one thing and another, right?

Yin is dark, Yang is light. Disinclination 19:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

It can be said though that, in accordance with the theory, the tai-chi must be presented with yin on the right with the bulging portion downward; yang on the left with the bulging portion upward. In the simplest explanation, this makes sense since yin represents the cool element, and cold drops (ie, the bulge on the bottom); yang represents the warm element, and heat rises (ie, the bulge on the top). Furthermore, having them side by side allows this correspondance of opposites to be represented without hindrance. Stacking the portions horizontally also is incorrect in two ways: if yang is put on the bottom it would represent heat as not rising, although the bulge itself would. If yin is put on the bottom, it would show cold as dropping but its bulge would represent it as rising. It is contradictory. In my understanding of the theory, my aforementioned method for presenting the symbol is correct, and I believe the way the symbol is shown in the photo for the article philosophically is the only way it can be presented. Just something to consider. --Bentonia School 13:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Western culture views Yin and Yang as Good and Evil?

In Western culture, Yin and Yang are often inaccurately portrayed as corresponding to "evil" and "good" respectively.

Really? News to me. There is no citation here; I'm not qualified to edit the article, so I'll leave it to an expert, but in my perception, it's a more common Western view to equate Yin & Yang with masculine and feminine. This article's reference to the misconception seems unencyclopedic with any context or source. Eeblet 23:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, you kind of answered yourself right there as to why that statement is up there (it's a more common Western view to equate Yin & Yang with masculine and feminine. ). If you go around and ask almost anyone, they'll tell you that. So how do you source a common Western myth? Disinclination 23:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Heh, exactly -- can I nix the generalization altogether? Eeblet 07:06, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] yin yang in Albania

Does anyone possibly have any insight into these yin yang symbols found in Albania (ancient Illyrian city of Bylis)?

http://picasaweb.google.com/mhussey/BylisAlbania/photo#4986605740618285074 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Popcontest (talk • contribs) 00:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC).