Talk:Yeshivat Chovevei Torah

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This is a controversial topic, which may be under dispute. Please read this talk page and discuss substantial changes here before making them. Make sure you supply full citations when adding information to highly controversial articles.

Contents 1 Ysoscher Katz 2 NPOV 3 RCA status 4 Criticism of YCT 5 Cross-Currents article 6 Haredi Criticism

[edit] Ysoscher Katz

Hello,

You've put a link to Ysoscher Katz in the Yeshivat Chovevei Torah article, but there currently is no article on Rabbi Katz so the link currently doesn't go anywhere. Were you planning to start an article on Ysoscher Katz? Otherwise, the link will be deleted soon. --Shirahadasha 04:56, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

This article is going from a stub to a screed. A single paragraph should be cited from the blog that is critical of YCT. The prior interfaith should also be a paragraph not a page.

Feel free to summarize/pair as you feel appropriate. --Shirahadasha 03:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RCA status

The RCA apparently postponed its decision on whether or not to admit YCT graduates as members, previously scheduled for June, without public comment. If anyone comes across published information with a status update, it would be appreciated. Here's a pro-YCT blog discussing the issue [1]. Don't believe it meets WP:RS so not putting in the article, but perhaps its claims can be verified in a published source. --Shirahadasha 06:08, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism of YCT

Hello, removed some unsourced criticism added by User:ClosedOrthodoxy. Added a "Criticism of Orthodox Status" stub section. Editors are welcome to identify major criticisms of YCT's claim to status as an Orthodox institution etc. in this section. Please supply sources. Best, --Shirahadasha 22:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

None of closed Orthodoxy's posts under criticism deal specificially with YCT. If he does not produce quotes specifically about YCt, then they should be deleted within the day. --Jayrav 03:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Please feel free to add documented criticism of YCT. But random lists of rabbis on various topics is not about YCT.--Jayrav 17:29, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

If a person will look with open eyes at what YCT has done and then will look with an open mind at the sources I have cited from the genuine sages of Modern Orthodoxy, one will see clearly that YCT and Open Orthodoxy have very little to do with Modern Orthodoxy...

I moved the long post prefaced with the sentence above to Talk:Yeshivat Chovevei Torah\YCT and Open Orthodoxy versus Modern Orthodoxy comment by ClosedOrthodoxy. The comment ends with the statement below. Antonrojo 20:00, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Shirachadasha, I demand that my statement about YCT's questionable Orthodox bona-fides remain. If what I have put above has not proven that questionableness to you, I must conclude that your biases affect your edits. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ClosedOrthodoxy (talk • contribs).

ClosedOrthodoxy, see WP:CIVIL. I suggest that you not demand that specific content remain in the article since it is a collaborative project without owners. Antonrojo 20:03, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cross-Currents article

Hello. ClosedOrthodoxy, I did a quick internet search and found a source, a quote from an article in Cross-Currents, which makes one of the key claims you've been trying to make -- that YCT's activities with the Catholic Cardinals involved things that were inconsistent with Rav Soloveitchik's limits on appropriate conduct with nonjewish Clergy. The difference is that it's a quote from an article -- someone else's opinion about YCT. The fact that someone else is saying this in a published source makes it suitable material for Wikipedia, while saying the same thing oneself isn't suitable for Wikipedia. It's also specifically about YCT -- it doesn't take general statements by rabbanim and apply them oneself to specific situations that weren't before them, which is also considered original research and not OK. Supplying quotes from articles that are specifically about YCT makes all the difference. We're not trying to prevent you from adding content to the article, we're only asking you to channel what you are trying to add into a format that Wikipedia policies can accept. All you have to do is search the internet or Jewish newspapers and find someone else who is saying what you are trying to say, quote or summarize them, and cite the source. It's that simple. Criticisms are out there, it was fairly easy for me to find one, and if you have additional criticisms to make you can probably find someone out there who's already made it. This really is about Wikipedia policies, not about bias. --Shirahadasha 06:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Haredi Criticism

Please identify specific Yated or other articles identifying criticism by specific Haredi leaders. The paragraph on Haredi criticism as it stands isn't verifiable. Also, removed general statement that regarding some Biblical stories nonliterally is "anathema" to "Orthodox" Judaism. Wikipedia can't report such a general statement as absolute fact, it can't say for example that the Rambam (who in Guide for the Perplexed also said that some Biblical stories aren't to be taken literally) isn't Orthodox. Some people believe this and some don't, and per WP:NPOV Wikipedia can only describe what specific individuals say. Best --Shirahadasha 04:38, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Again calling for sources for the Haredi Criticism section. --Shirahadasha 20:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

This section in it's current form should be verifiable. Since criticism and opinions are attributed, though lacking cites, this should be NPOV. The other POV issue I noted was that some criticism did not refer to YCT specifically and now all the criticism does. As such, I plan to remove the NPOV tag. Antonrojo 17:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello. A link to an on-line posting of the Yated article "Yeshivat Chovevei Torah: Is it Orthodox? An Expose on a Threat to Halachic Judaism" has been added to the references section. Critics of YCT are welcome to summarize the criticism this source articulates. Best, --Shirahadasha 10:10, 26 February 2007 (UTC)