Talk:Year Zero (album)

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[edit] "Survivalism" in the track listing

Just a note that we probably shouldn't keep adding "(possibly "Survivalism")" behing tracks 1 & 2, due to the unconfirmable and speculative nature of doing so. Besides, we'll know the correct track listing sooner or later anyway. --Brandt Luke Zorn 04:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Blabbermouth says it's "expected" to be track 3, but they don't know any more than we do. BotleySmith 22:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. We'll know soon enough anyway, and I'd rather know for sure than have unneeded speculation. --Brandt Luke Zorn 23:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
it was added to the tracklisting (on the mini-site) today. it's traqck 3. i was going to add it, but someone beat me to it.69.215.98.132 14:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One of the references

Considering that this reference came out of a forum transcription, is it a reliable one that we should use? I'm thinking not. We should probably directly cite whichever issue of Kerrang! it is, if anyone is able to find out. --Brandt Luke Zorn 01:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Since it was posted Jan 3 and it seems Kerrang! comes out Saturdays, it was probably the Jan 6 issue or the week before. It should be safe to assume Jan 6 since the cover has Trent on it. Pomte 01:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the help :). However, I don't think that we have enough information about the exact issue of Kerrang that we're citing to use a magazine reference. By Monday, I'll probably be able to go to my library and see if they have some older Kerrang magazines, but no guarantees. If you or anyone else can find the exact issue, I'd be very happy :). Until then, I did find this, which is more reliable than a forum any day. --Brandt Luke Zorn 05:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Track Listing

so does it have 16 tracks or 17? on the mini-site it looks like 16, though theres a bunch of boxes jumbled up around it and i can't see a 17 number. Nineinchsin 21:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

It looks like it'll be 16 tracks, but if any others are absolutely confirmed we'll add them. --Brandt Luke Zorn 21:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
My bet is on 16. Pomte 21:41, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
It's just that on the article wikipedia lists 17 tracks and on the site i only see 16. 71.30.136.223 23:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Right. User:Pearljames had perceived the blocks at the bottom to be the last item, and added it in. I have removed it since it is too speculative. Pomte 00:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Halo Number

Halo 23 will be the single, so the album is Halo 24 Year 0 00:02, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

There's absolutely no information on the halo category numbers of Survivalism or Year Zero. I move that this information be removed until the halo numbers can be confirmed. It is true that the single usually precedes the album and that each release to have a halo number, but the positioning of the album and the single are speculative, as is the positioning of the single in the tracklist.75.120.102.134 04:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, because Survivalism is released on April 9 and Year Zero is released April 17, Survivalism will (obviously) be released sooner and will be Halo 23. --Brandt Luke Zorn 06:10, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, there's absolutely no mention of Survivalism getting a regular CD single release, and as such, Year Zero could very well be Halo 23.HorseloverFat 09:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, too bad it was announced via nin's British MySpace page that Halo 23 will be the single for Survivalism & 24 will be Year Zero.69.218.46.14 15:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Those myspace blog entries are apparently gone.backstabb 23:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=153466238&blogID=232038236 –Pomte 02:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Album Art

I liked that bit of information about the album art probably being released on this page. I think it should stay. Nickoladze 22:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

WP:NOT a crystal ball. When it happens, go ahead and post it. Until then, leave it off. –King Bee (T • C) 22:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree with King Bee. It was weak speculation at best.-Mfaith1 01:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
But it is going to happen. I think the link should be included. The album artwork will definitely be on that page.Cowboydan97 23:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Look, as I said above, Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Until it's posted on the Year Zero site, leave it out. If you're crazy about editing a wiki about Nine Inch Nails, check out this site. –King Bee (T • C) 00:06, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
If wikipedia's not a crystal ball, then we wouldn't have an article for this album. We wouldn't have an article for anything up-coming. You need proof that that's going to be the album art, right click the "image" and view. Now why would it not be the album art if the link is named "albumart.jpg" Cowboydan97 00:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
It could be named anything for any reason. There's a similar page with a "chinesedemocracy.jpg" file which is broken. It's just a page, it's not conclusive evidence of ANYTHING. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball simply means we don't post any un-sourced information, and especially links to pages where action has not happened yet. There is quite a bit of sourcable information available for YZ. --NeoVampTrunks 01:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not Counting Broken...

"Year Zero will also be the first Nine Inch Nails album to be released less than five or six years after its predecessor."

i know that broken was technically an EP, but it came out 3 years after PHM. the line should be changed from "first NIN album" to "first NIN full length/LP". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.43.221.247 (talk) 00:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

"Traditionally, an album ranged in duration from half an hour to an hour, with the average under 45 minutes." (taken from the wikipedia article on albums) broken clocks in @ just a little over 31 minutes, so it qualifies as an album, meaning that "Year Zero" would be the second NIN album to be released less than five years after its predecessor, making it not really noteworthy at all.65.43.221.247 00:52, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
I guess we should leave it as "Year Zero will also be the first Nine Inch Nails studio album to be released less than five or six years after its predecessor." since Broken is just an EP. Minor Threat's first release is also an EP that had more than five songs, but does that mean it's a full-length album as well? Alex 02:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Less than 5 or 6 means less than 5. Furthermore, The Downward Spiral was released 4 years, 4 months and some days after Pretty Hate Machine. The Fragile was released 5.5 years after TDS. With Teeth was released 5 years 7 months after The Fragile, not 6 years. Pomte 02:10, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Broken is an EP. It is classified as much by the record label releasing it, and all press surrounding it. If you don't think it's an album, that's great. I don't believe in the existence of toenails, but since the rest of the world does, I'm not going to go edit the wiki entry on toenails. Leviathant 18:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
An EP is simply an EP. Just because they have more than four or five tracks sometimes, like Broken, doesn't mean it's an actual full-length album. Like... Bad Religion's 1981 first EP also had over five tracks just like Broken, but does that mean it should have been an official full-length studio release as well? I don't think so. Alex 20:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


Because of the ambiguous nature of the bonus tracks, the RIAA technically classifies Broken as a mini-album. It's definitely not a full-length. BotleySmith 02:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Conversely, Frances the Mute is an album, despite only having five official tracks. Will 21:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
why does everyone keep wanting to change the personnel of this album? Fraggle (Shane Fenton) is a collaborator for this album
We're going to need a reference for that. Who exactly are your "sources". I'm removing the note about Fraggle until a reference is provided. --Insomniak 04:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another Version of the Truth

Should there be a small part mentioning this website? I'm not sure if it's official or not. (Hint: Hold down your left mouse button and drag your cursor over the image, like you're painting.) Nickoladze 04:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Also http://www.iamtryingtobelieve.com/ for a viral marketing section. Pomte 04:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I believe the following are also part of the above: http://bethehammer.net/ http://105thairbornecrusaders.com/ http://churchofplano.com/ http://www.consolidatedmailsystems.com/nooneimportant/ --Eccentriccx 04:31, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone see anything that ties all these websites together? And where are you finding these links? Nickoladze 04:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
For the one I linked to, go to The NIN Hotline and look at the highlighted text in the latest t-shirt picture. Pomte 04:47, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh yeah I saw that picture, but didn't catch that hidden message. I heard there was one, but didn't find it right away. Anyways, I added a small section to the main page but I'm pretty much a wiki n00b, so someone might need to expand/edit it. Nickoladze 04:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I found a forum thread with a lot of information, added it and whatnot. Nickoladze 04:59, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Should hyperpower.org be included in the list of sites? It doesn't share the common distortion as the other pages, and the e-mail address listed cannot be contacted. I doubt this is a relevant website. Anonymous —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.110.196.155 (talk • contribs).
No, it's not related. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nickoladze (talk • contribs).
Of course, all of this is unverifiable. This wiki should remain neutral on the significance of these websites to the album until such time as official confirmation is provided by a reliable source (ie, not a fan forum thread). BotleySmith 21:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 42 Entertainment source?

When someone linked the 'viral marketing web sites' from a blog earlier today, I figured this might be 42 Entertainment again and did a search -- but I can't find anything that connects them to this. Where is the information that they may be connected to it coming from? That needs to be sourced. 67.180.166.40 04:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

There may be better evidence, and most likely no source yet, but I know someone fiddled with the IP addresses:

[edit] "My Violent Heart" Leak

Anyone with any info on the leak put it here before posting it so as not to screw the whole article up with unverified claims as to where it originated.HorseloverFat 14:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it's hilarious that the actual leak isn't a good enough source for wikipedia, and we have to wait for someone to talk about it before we can provide a reference.
I own a website that is not a blog, if i just put a blank page with the words "my violent heart has leaked" is that good enough? Nympholept 16:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
No. Please read up on WP:CITE. It will explain what we consider to be reliable and acceptable sources and what we don't. –King Bee (T • C) 16:35, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
There are people who have done Spectrographs of some static in the leaked song and it brings up an image of a hand that looks to be connected to the viral marketing sites. Should this be mentioned? Anonymous
Sorry, that would qualify as original research, and it's not something we can include in the article here. –King Bee (T • C) 00:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Still, it is relevant to the subject of this article, and it is a verifiable fact (if someone doesn't trust the source, they can construct the spectrograph themself). Theoretically, we could attach the .mp3 to the article and cite it. The websites would have to be deleted too, since it is only widely speculated, with some degree of evidence, that they are connected to the album. Pomte 02:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Look, I'm sorry. We can't include it in the article unless it is a piece of information verified by a reliable source. Please read WP:CITE if you have more questions, or ask them here; I can try to help. –King Bee (T • C) 12:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Seems pretty clear to me that you haven't read WP:CITE. Verifiable information (such as a statement in a book or song)is perfectly acceptable for use with citations. Good call, King Bee. Brandon Harris 11:20, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
The word "song" does not appear on the WP:CITE page. –King Bee (T • C) 13:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "My Violent Heart" Length

On my computer, the length of the leaked track is 4:19.944. Who agrees that this should be rounded up to 4:20? –King Bee (T • C) 19:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds right to me. Mfaith1 19:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
No, this shouldn't be included at all. The 'leak' should not be considered the official album release. Walkboss 20:31, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Actually, you are right. It should be removed entirely. Good call. –King Bee (T • C) 21:06, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Duration for Survivialism

I just downloaded "Survivalism" on MP3 and my WinAmp (which plays MP3s) says the duration to the song is 4:24. I found the MP3 here. Alex 17:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't matter. There is no reason to believe that that will positively, definitely be the exact length of the song on the official release. Just wait until it comes out. –King Bee (T • C) 18:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I have encountered radio streams with length 4:22 and 4:23. For "My Violent Heart" as well, the length of that track on the album will presumably be different because of the added bit of static at the end. Pomte 01:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
The MVH audio links on mirror http://mygoaldiscussion.blogspot.com are 4:20

[edit] First radio play?

Not that it is terribly important, but 102.1 CHUM FM in Toronto is claiming that they débuted Year Zero on the radio before KROQ in california did. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moeburn (talk • contribs) 02:26, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

You mean 102.1 CFNY-FM The Edge. This is what my friend heard from that station: CFNY played "Survivalism" at like 8:20 on Thursday, and the DJ was talking about how the LA station was bragging that they played it at 10am on Friday or something, and they were getting all the credit for playing it first. Pomte 19:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I was listening to 102.1 the edge when they first played it. It was infact on Thursday 15 February 2007 during the Thursday 30. Pwnage8 08:07, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
I really don't think the first play on the radio is a terribly important topic for the article. 99% of the music articles on Wikipedia don't mention first radio play, simply because from a historical, encyclopedic point of view it's really not very important. Furthermore, it's all but impossible to know for sure which station played it first (especially since radio stations claim first play all the time), not to mention referencing such a claim. Hence, I suggest we take any mention of first radio play out of the article. Or, at least remove it from THIS article, since it is about the album and not the song.
--Drewcifer3000 08:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
According to Alan Cross's blog, Martin Streak played "My Violent Heart" during that Thursday 30. So did he play both? I agree on removing the radio station mention, though the first play date is somewhat significant if all other dates are kept. Instead of February 16, we would say February 15, and not the vague "February 2007", since these news items are progressing a lot day by day. Pomte 08:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Me, I'm Not" Leak

Another thumb drive was found in a bathroom stall in Barcelona wit the track "Me, I'm Not" on it. This should be added to the article.69.218.46.14 15:21, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Uhh... did you read the article? It's already there. –King Bee (T • C) 15:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
yes it was added as i was typing that.69.212.159.175 22:42, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
No, it wasn't. It was there almost 18 hours before you posted your message. I don't much like being bossed around by anonymous users who remove messages from talk pages for no reason, so please, take the time to read the article before you critique what we're doing. If this isn't okay with you, go edit at [1], where you'll probably find the type of wiki you're looking for. –King Bee (T • C) 04:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Morse code?

i took a look at the wavelengths in the 'ballgameover.mp3' 'opalo.mp3' and 'nohurry.mp3' files and i discovered morse code at the end. here are the dots and dashes: ballgameover.mp3: ..--- ....- .-.-.- .---- ----- .-.-.- ..... (24.10.5) nohurry.mp3: ..--- ....- .-.-.- .---- ----- .-.-.- .---- (24.10.1) opalo.mp3: ..--- ....- .-.-.- .---- ----- .-.-.- ...-- (24.10.3)

what is the significance of this? pretty soon i'll record the viral telephone numbers you can call, which also have morse code at the end, and i'll transcribe those too.
also note: WARNING CODE 24.10.4 (all page functionality disabled): You are not the citizen assigned to this account. Close this window immediately and stay where you are. Authorities will be in contact shortly for appropriate reeducation.
this comes up when you click anywhere on the website http://www.consolidatedmailsystems.com/nooneimportant/#
maybe this has something to do with the morse code? 24.10.#?
bizarrremoon1@hotmail.com 24.208.196.24 03:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Don't discuss this here, it's not a forum. Nickoladze 03:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
There are theories on this at http://www.ninwiki.com/Numbers -Pomte 05:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Online Promotion section revamp

I thought the Year Zero online promotion stuff sorely needed a rewrite so I kinda did so without anyone's permission. I don't think I left much out of what was already there except I deleted the media coverage, which I thought wasn't really fitting for an encyclopedia article. Feel free to revert if you think I did a horrible job. --Joshspazjosh 02:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)JoshSpazJosh

I agree on the need for the re-write. I think your contribution was properly done. I'm sure it will undergo a little morphing over the next few days, but it's certainly a much better foundation than before. Good job. –m.f (t • c) 13:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
The media coverage is very relevant in discussing this promotion. From viral marketing: "Often the goal of viral marketing campaigns is to generate media coverage via "offbeat" stories..." I added a remark about the fan involvement that doesn't promote any fansites. Even if you don't think it is viral marketing, you should agree that the fan involvement is significant for the continuation and publicity of this promotion. Pomte 20:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but when all of this is over and done with we don't need a huge paragraph all about press who loved the idea and the fansites that covered it most. --209.222.211.219 13:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] U.S. Wiretap

I wasn't sure where to put this, but when you go to the http://www.uswiretap.com site and highlight the whole page, the numbers 24.3.3 show up in blue. I'm unsure what the relevance of this is, but it should be looked into/discussed. The 'halo.track.letter' scheme is discussed at http://www.echoingthesound.org/phpbbx/viewtopic.php?t=20265

Also, this link isn't provided in the main article where it links to U.S. Wiretap so i don't know if it is widely known, but http://www.uswiretap.com/71839j/ Is the real link to the conversation between the two women (Agent T.C. Sikes and Police Sgt. Jeff Slanski).
You can download a recording of the conversation here - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C31IDNXS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ebagtheftp (talk • contribs) 07:10, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The Presence

hey guys, on the picture of "the presence" from the static on the end of one of those tracks, there's clearly five fingers extending down, not four. four fingers and a thumb, you know? just thought i'd let you know, 'cause i can't edit it myself. :) i also apologize if i'm not doing this right. first and probably last time I'll do it, ever.

71.125.80.229 06:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)kate

Thanks for noticing that. Next time you can click the [edit] link to the right of the section heading (in this case "The Presence" and make the appropriate changes. Pomte 06:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
you're welcome. i thought i can't edit it though, because i'm not registered? I didn't think to try, haha... oh well. thanks for fixing it.
Oh right, I forgot they protected this article from vandalism by anonymous users. Pomte 06:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Is there a way we can start a sort-of "list" of sightings of "The Presence?" I found one in the "Survivalism" video (edited to include the content under "The Presence" heading). That image is just friggin' creepy. It's become some sort of scavenger hunt with me. Very interesting! Jeffreybomb 15:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
A list of Presence sightings isn't relevant to the article, as it's for things regarding the album. Presence sightings falls more under the topic of Year Zero phenomena; a good place to put it instead would be ninwiki. R-Tiztik 15:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I argue that a list is indeed relevant to the article since The Presence is a main element of the concept which this concept album was built around, though I do agree that The Presence is not relevant to the subheading it's currently found under (Promotion). I move that this section be either moved the Themes subheading or create a new subheading called Album Concept.Josh 23:08, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Elizabeth's USB

the Elizabeth USB they found today (feb 25) contains "in this twilight", but if i were to add it would it be removed like it was a couple of minutes ago, or.?--R-Tiztik 23:21, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

You don't have a source saying exactly what the USB key has on it. Until then, just wait. This isn't a breaking news site, it's an encyclopedia article. –King Bee (T • C) 23:57, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
alright, it's no problem--R-Tiztik 00:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Every 5 Days

Is it worth noting that the "leaks" are released every 5 days since Valentine's Day? At this rate a "leak" could very well be released on March 1. It's speculative but it's not irrational by this point to expect another song in 5 days.--R-Tiztik 03:38, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

It is speculative to say that a new song will be heard on March 1, but it is factual to say that a song has been leaked every 5 days, but this fact isn't very significant until the pattern becomes more apparent, and doesn't include the "Survivalism" clip/radio. Anyone paying attention to the USB drives section should be able to notice it anyway. Pomte 04:01, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Please use the talk page to discuss the article, not the subject itself. This is not a Nine Inch Nails forum. Thank you. –King Bee (T • C) 04:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
We are discussing whether information should be noted in the article. Pomte 05:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, that is not how I read the discussion. The answer is obviously no, as this is 100% speculation. –King Bee (T • C) 05:22, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
This clearly isn't the case now as it is March 22 with no new releases —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kratos Aurion (talk • contribs) 01:55, 23 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] February 14 concert

I noticed that the article says "My Violent Heart" was found in a bathroom in Lisbon on February 14, but according to the tour shirt the Lisbon shows were over on the 12 and the February 14 concert was played in Madrid, Spain, so wouldn't the USB have been found in Madrid.? I can't see how the shirt's wrong seeing as it's official merch though, but any word on this? R-Tiztik 22:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure, but can you please start new discussions at the bottom of the page, as it says above in the page header? It would really make everything here much easier to follow. Thanks! –King Bee (T • C) 13:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of "unencyclopedic" and "unsourcable" content

The term "unencyclopedic" is subjectively applied to content that does not explicit violate WP:NOT. For example, in this edit, only the last part of sentence which is a how-to guide may be considered unencyclopedic. A description of the look of the sites being all static-y could stay, probably provided there is some reliable source describing it.

Regarding this edit reverting "unsourcable" material, it may actually become sourcable if a reliable source pasted it, but it wouldn't be encyclopedic.
Not to be picky about terms, and I am not going to find sources that do this, so this is just a suggestion to good faith editors who wish to add information without being reverted. -Pomte 21:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bonus track?

Ninwiki lists the import bonus track for Year Zero (track 17) as "Zero-Gen-Ten" in the Track listing[2].

And what's their source for this information? –King Bee (T • C) 20:04, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Haha I wish I knew, I'm actually gonna register a user there right now and try to figure that out R-Tiztik 20:07, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Good idea. Report back when you find out.
I was under the impression that the name of the record in Japanese will be Zero-Gen-Ten, not that there was an extra track on the Japanese edition, but I could be wrong. –King Bee (T • C) 20:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
They might be thinking of this. It doesn't say that there is a bonus track, just that there might be, and that the name of the album in Japanese will be Zero Gen Ten. –King Bee (T • C) 20:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Kay I found the post you're talking about and that makes more sense, I'll remove it from ninwiki too then (might as well since I have a user there now lol). Problem solved. R-Tiztik 20:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Well done. Keep up the good work. –King Bee (T • C) 21:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "The Beginning of the End"

I think it should be placed somewhere that KROQ played "The beginning of the End". Goldenglove 17:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Did it Nickoladze 12:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Year Zero Movie

Trent has apparently stated that he is discussing a movie based on Year Zero. This was apparently mentioned in Rock Sound magazine, though I don't have the issue it was in. Is this worth adding to this article?

Mere speculation at this point. Nickoladze 14:46, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Once again, a major star has taken a VON LMO idea for his own. VON LMO's RED RESISTOR CD (Variant Records VCD2088, released 1996 and currently out of print) contains the sound track to a film you see in your mind as you listen. 4.231.204.77 18:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC) Peter Crowley
It is possible for people to have similar ideas independantly of each other. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.144.56.33 (talk) 10:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Hoax header

What's with the hoax warning? Is there at least some specific content that needs to be confirmed?John R S 18:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, how is it a hoax if all this is actually happening? It's not like any of it is made up. Nickoladze 18:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unreliable sources

A large part of this article is based upon unreliable sources, namely pseudonymous postings on web discussion fora, that only reference other pseudonymous postings on other discussion fora. Those are not acceptable sources. Please provide, and only use, reliable sources, in order to prevent Wikipedia from being abused as a vehicle for promotional campaigns. From the sources given so far, it is not safe to say that any of the information in this article is accurate. Wikipedia is not a rumour mill. Uncle G 16:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

That admits the existence of the promotional campaign. Citations like the MTV article I just added and this USA Today blog have been lost along the way, though all they do is parrot the forums. –Pomte 17:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the majority of the sources in the article come from the reputable Nine Inch Nails fan-run news site, The Nine Inch Nails Hotline. If you question the reliability of this source, question no more; the official Nine Inch Nails website endorses this page by linking to it from their "links" page. –King Bee (τ • γ) 11:05, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that it qualifies strictly as a "reliable source" according to WP:A, but after arguments put forth on the Talk:Nine Inch Nails page, I think it's safe to use as a a source for reports relating to the band. It's referenced not only by the band's official website, but by sources like MTV and RollingStone.com for updates. BotleySmith 12:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Year Zero

I think i'll start a timeline on the year zero phenonmena. Can i rely on NINwiki? if I do, I probably have to site it as a source, but how good of a source is it? Myspace.com/alicekilledherself —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.136.119.83 (talk) 22:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Movie Project

Just included it, just found out. myspace.com/alicekilledherself

[edit] GarageBand

Somebody should really add some text about how Survivalism is available in GarageBand format for remix and that they're planning to do the same for the entire album. It's on the nin.com news page so it's sourced content and highly notable.

[edit] "Viral Marketing" or "ARG"?

Having just found out about "phenomena" around the Year Zero album, I've gotta say that it sounds more like an Alternate Reality Game than Viral Marketing, especially since it seems to be telling a story set in an alternate future reality, using elements in the real world. Trent himself seemed frustated with the term "marketing", so perhaps it would be better to call it an ARG. To compare it with something more recent, the Lost Experience that tied in with the Lost TV series. WtW-Suzaku 06:12, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the difference: are all ARGs examples of viral marketing? In this case, a story is simply being told; the participants obtain information, but it's unlikely they can change how the story turns out. Since this story seems to be held as important as the album, I agree it is unfair to call it marketing. –Pomte 06:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
ARGs tend to incorporate viral marketing to some degree, usually through sponsored websites and the like. Some, like the LOST Experience, simply have the "players" unraveling the story through a periodic (usually phase-oriented) series of events that are player driven; IE, decoding a URL or cracking a code to get a phone number. However, marketing is not always the case. The Push, Nevada ARG continued long after the show was canceled, and actually culminated with the "winner" recieving a $1 million prize. Incidentally, it seems that Year Zero has already been mentioned on the ARG article. WtW-Suzaku 19:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
This is a proposal to rename the Promotion section to Alternate reality game, right? In that case, I support. I was considering Promotion and storyline but this covers both aspects better. –Pomte 19:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I second the proposal. Alternate Reality Game is certainly more accurate. I say go for it.–m.f (t • c) 22:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The March 18th USB memo.

Please do not edit my posting. It is legit. I found it. If you edit or delete it, I will keep putting it back, ok? I am the only source for this post.

The real reason details are TBA is because I'm just really tired from tonight, and just wanting to keep the suspense, while I sober up from this hangover. Give it a day or two. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mix Bouda-Lycaon (talk • contribs) 06:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
Wouldn't this fall under the heading of WP:OR or WP:SPS? If this hasn't been announced somewhere that can be sourced, I'm not sure it has a place here. The NIN Wiki would be a more appropriate place to announce such a discovery until such a time as it is confirmed somewhere reputable. Warhorus 16:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Further more, this seems odd. All previous USB drives were found at concerts, I don't see why a fourth one would randomly pop up half a world away as NIN was in Brussels, Belgium the night in question. I would be highly suspicious of this being a hoax. I say this should be withheld from the article until it is definitively confirmed. Wikipedia does not need to be up to the minute with it's information. We would do better to wait a week and err on the side of caution then throw up a lot of information that turns out to be false two days later.Warhorus 16:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Since you don't "beleive" me that I have it, whom is this 'reputable' person should I seek to confrim my findings to you? Someone that would leak the stuff on it as well while examining it?
I wish I could say more to confirm what is on this. 2 songs and a file is all I 'should' say. But, can you point me out to a good spectrograph?
There was a NIN listening congression in Chicago that night, just a fyi. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mix Bouda-Lycaon (talk • contribs) 17:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
The NIN Hotline or NIN Wiki might be good places to start. That and actually making the files available. Might you be referring to this?
--Drewcifer3000 17:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Believe me, I really want it to be authentic. I follow this very closely and get very excited every time something new comes to light. I wasn't doubting you as much as I was doubting the drive itself since it deviated from the pattern. I meant no offense. I was just suggesting that we give the issue a few days to develop. I'm sure it will make it's way onto Wikipedia, this place can report on breaking news, but it isn't the place TO break news.Warhorus 17:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, ok. I've decifered alot from it. (And I've also squeezed out another message from the Garfeild Heights number too, which no one stumbled on, but I am not done with this reasearch.) Remember the ballgameOver.mp3? The Metro ain't far from there. Like around the block. Waveland's in the same area. Heh... reminds me of the Abe/Kennedy conspiracies; takes a shot from his room, runs to a theathre to hide. Well there's a spectrograph image in that recording. The American Flag starts out the recording in static.
The .pdf file holds alot, "art is resistance" "art is your only choice" "you have a voice" and etc... There is binary and html on the image, the binary leads to a website and also a phrase.
Though the novice decrypters forgot a clue, as I analyzed a phone call. It brings out a .fit file, which is a greyscale pixelated line. So if you could, please point me in the direction of a picture to sound converter, and I'll have your next clue ready.
"CHICAGO, Illinois. – March 20th – Fashion Bomb would like to address the issue of a flash drive being found at the Chicago listening party for Nine Inch Nail’s Year Zero. Apparently, this flash drive contained a song of theirs and some information pointing to their website. Fashion Bomb did not have anything what so ever to do with this flash drive, nor do we know where it came from. Some of the band members were in attendance at the party, but they were there to hear the new album. We in Fashion Bomb are all fans of Nine Inch Nails and have nothing but respect for Trent Reznor and his excellent work." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mix Bouda-Lycaon (talk • contribs) 07:41, 22 March 2007 (UTC).
This wikipedia talk page isn't the appropriate venue for discussing individual ARG-related finds. If you want to spread information about you're find, I'd suggest the "Year Zero" forum at the Echoing the Sound forums, where a lot of primary YZ information is being collected. -- rynne 19:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Capital G" Single

As far as I know, there is no hard citable evidence that Capital G will be the next single. Just because there is a sticker on the album that says "includes such tracks as..." does not guarantee it will be a single. Sure, it suggests it, but we can't include speculations like this in an encyclopedic source.–m.f (t • c) 15:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

This song would be a perfect single, catchiest song ever ;) R-Tiztik 20:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:EL

I noticed that there are an ungodly amount of external links listed here, which would seem to be in violation of WP:EL. However, I also know that all of them are relevant to the ARG. I believe we should not list all of them, because I think it makes the page look unwieldy. Another opinion? –King Bee (τ • γ) 12:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it's an all-or-none prospect. I can't see any objective criteria to determine which sites are more or less important to the ARG, so just deleting some of the sites would be arbitrary. -- rynne 15:38, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I would get rid of all of them, then. –King Bee (τ • γ) 15:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed the same thing. What I've considered in the past is making some sort of Year Zero phenomenon page. It would clear this page up alot, leaving only relevant stuff about the album itself. My only concern with that solution would be notablitiy. But, as one of the quotes on this very page suggests, the Year Zero phenomnon isn't just publicity, it is the art. It would also give a place for the barrage of fanboy edits this page has seen recently. Thoughts?
--Drewcifer3000 16:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I think a Year Zero (alternate reality game) article or something similar might be useful. -- rynne 21:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I second that! This article needs to be uncluttered.–m.f (t • c) 22:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
Oppose split. This article isn't so long that it needs to be split, and the phenomena are part of the album concept which directly falls under any discussion of the album. I think it would be harder to maintain 2 separate articles with a summary of the ARG here (there is already a summary of Year Zero at Nine Inch Nails which means more attention is diverted). An example of unnecessary duplication would be the need to mention the leaks in both articles.
The external links do not violate Wikipedia:External links#Links normally to be avoided, and form one subject of the article. The number of them isn't exactly unweildly (less than the number of footnote links, for instance). I have divided the list into 2 columns to save vertical space. –Pomte 22:48, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


I somewhat agree. The article isn't all that long, nor is the external links section. I don't think a bit of information duplication is the end of the world (irony not intended), since each article would go into detail about each topic. As for the summary on the Nine Inch Nails page, I'd say that it's too long and bloated as it is, and I would recommend reducing it down a bit anyways. The leaks, and indeed most if not all of the ARG, don't need to be mentioned in any detail.
Most importantly though, I think making a separate ARG article would allow us to go more in depth with all the Year Zero stuff, stuff that wouldn't be suitable on the album page. For example, a Year Zero time line would be cool (and referenceable) but not appropriate for this page. A more robust Presence section would also be nice, but again, not appropriate for this page.
Just a though. Should we put it to a vote or something?
--Drewcifer3000 23:45, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I think the timeline and Presence are too in-universe to go into detail about on Wikipedia. There can be a plot summary like for a TV episode or a novel, and not only that but also real-world context and sourced analysis. –Pomte 00:07, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
You mentioned that there are less "phenomena" links than there are footnote links; I'm not sure this is relevant. I would rather have one thousand footnote links (one for every clause in the article) than one external link in an "external links" section. However, I'm with you concerning your opinion RE: a separate page. –King Bee (τ • γ) 14:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
So far I see 3 fors and 2 againsts (I think King Bee was against, but the wording isn't clear). Also, as far as how this hypothetical ARG page might look, take a look at I Love Bees (an example of an ARG as promotion) and Perplex City (an example of an ARG merely for the sake of itself) among others (for more examples, see the numerous links here). Given these examples, I could definitely see a Year Zero page being worthwhile, useful, encyclopedic, referenceable, and justifiably expandable beyond the scope of the Year Zero album page. Thoughts?–Drewcifer3000 10:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
After looking at those pages, I think I have changed my mind. If you can make it work, go for it. –King Bee (τ • γ) 13:29, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I will probably end up helping out if this goes underway. –Pomte 03:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Alright, well I'll try and start the page once I find some free time. I'm not actually involved in the game beyond what is put up on Wikipedia, so we'll see how far I can get. Also, if you check out the link in the discussion below, the campaign will apparently keep going for another 3 years! Given that information I definately think the page is neccessary.Drewcifer3000 23:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. If you start it off, it will no doubt grow fairly quickly. Thanks for doing what you can.–m.f (t • c) 00:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I've created a separate article for all the ARG sites, and linked to it in both the Year Zero page, the Year Zero Part 2, and the NIN template. It's open to expansion though seeing as so far it just contains a summary at the top, followed by a list of the links that appeared on the Year Zero pages. I removed the column template seeing as how the links now have their own separate page. R-Tiztik 20:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Looks like someone just turned it into a redirect. Honestly I think that's best for now, since the page as it was provided nothing that wasn't already on the Year Zero (album) page, just in a slightly different format. As promised, I've been working on a big page chronicling the Year Zero stuff, and it's turned into alot more than I thought. No, I haven't uploaded it to Wikipedia just yet, because I don't want to put up it until it's respectable. I'll put it up tonight or tomorrow. But of some consequence is what the article should be named. I don't think "Year Zero phenomenon" is necessarily appropriate, since it's a whole fictional world that's been created, complete with a back-history, characters, fictional drugs, etc, so "phenomenon" seems somewhat lacking. I was assuming I'd make a Year Zero (alternate reality game) page (titled in the same vein as other ARG pages like Vanishing Point (alternate reality game))). Any thoughts? Am I over thinking this?Drewcifer3000 02:19, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
I personally think this would be a fitting title for such an article. Is what you're working on similar to what NinWiki has going on with their sort of *universe* of articles? R-Tiztik 03:26, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
It won't be hard to do something on par of The Lost Experience - a little bit of description goes a long way. Will 03:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Done. Keep in mind its definitely a work in progress (that's where you guys come in!). Before going to work on it, please see the discussion page. Drewcifer3000 04:19, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
This is a pretty impressive page Drewcifer. I've placed a redirect on the temporary ARG sites directory Year Zero phenomena to the separate page in question here. This page could be very prominent in the future, good job. R-Tiztik 04:51, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding the Leak

[edit] Listening Party Bootleg

The bootleg of the Year Zero listening party that surface was recorded in Chicago. The DJ's assistant "Elektra" announces at the beginning that "we're gonna have a visual representation for you first, kinda like a retrospect of the entire history of Nine Inch Nails.. Then at the end of that we'll have the "Survivalism" video, if you haven't seen it yet it is a visual experience.. And then, then, the Chicago premier of Year Zero, so let's get started." (I've uploaded the announcement as an ogg vorbis file as a source: Download sample). Then I went to the official Year Zero website's listening party page and spotted the date of the Chicago party and basically just filled in the blanks. R-Tiztik 03:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Great effort for a low quality bootleg. –Pomte 03:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RIAA going after leaked Year Zero tracks?

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=69841 Can anyone confirm/deny? Eztli 21:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Well you basically confirmed it yourself by sourcing it. But wow, the RIAA is full of shit now, I don't know if there's any discreet way to put that that would be remotely accurate. Wow... R-Tiztik 22:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Year Zero "320kbps leak"

I've removed two links about the high quality leak, for various reasons.

  1. The link to demonoid was promoting illegal downloading.
  2. About seven exact copies of the torrent have been uploaded to OiNK, all deleted due to being a transcode. Additionally, these are the exact same size as the Demonoid version.
  3. The ref was to a forum - forums are often unreliable sources

And before anyone asks, yes, I do download music. Will 13:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't ask, but good work on removing the nonencyclopedic content. –King Bee (τ • γ) 14:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Now all mentions of the bootleg are completely absent from the article.. The leak is still encyclopedic in that it pertains to the history of the album, and not to come off as, for lack of better word, arrogant, I think that the last contribution I made to the Listening Party Recording section suited it best, where it simply mentioned that it surfaced on peer-to-peer networks (all remained nameless even though I know good and well demonoid was one of them hehe), and that the date (which I'm proud that it seems I noted it first :]) was the Chicago show on March 18. I agree that there should be no links to the direct download of copies seeing as how it's a bit arbitrary for Wikipedia to encourage piracy, but a brief mention of a surfaced recording should perhaps be noted? I'm not gonna be a dick and re-add it there, I want to know how everyone else feels about this. R-Tiztik 15:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
EDIT: I just checked out the NIN Hotline and apparently I was a bit confused. I thought someone simply re-encoded the cell phone recording to 320Kbps and upped it but now I see it really is literally a high quality recording! I still stand by what i said though, Year Zero wouldn't be the first article to recognize the leak of an album. However I still firmly believe no links should be provided and that mention should basically appear something like "On April 1, 2007 a bootleg recording of the Chicago, Illinois listening party of March 18, 2007 surfaced on several peer-to-peer networks. The quality of the recording is very low and it is apparent that whoever made the recording did not have very good sound capturing equipment. On April 4, 2007, a promotional copy ofYear Zero surfaced on several peer-to-peer networks." Or something along those lines. Anyways I'm tired of typing hehe, I just want to know how people feel about this. R-Tiztik 15:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I've got nothing against saying an album was leaked - I have got issues with unreliable sources and POVs on Wikipedia. Will 19:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't see how you can complain about there being no sources in the Leak section of the article. How can you source a leak without direct influencing piracy? Umm the best I can do is provide links to places that mention the leak. Bullshit I'd source directly to the leak itself. 1) Now the RIAA really, really hates you section at The NIN Hotline; 2) Echoing the Sound. No point including them in the article since the ETS source names sites where you can find the leak. R-Tiztik 23:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
The links about the leak in the first place were to the actual torrent file on Demonoid. I know, on subjects such as the MPAA/RIAA, we have linked to articles on torrent sites. That's fine. Linking to torrents themselves are bad (unless it's an intentional release by TPTB. Will 23:53, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Haha sorry about that, I probably should have mentioned that that statement was directed to Zimbabweed who was pretty much saying everything in the Leak section was unsourced. Sorry about that 0:) R-Tiztik 00:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Intentional leak?

This isn't worth adding to the article, but does anyone else feel that a 320Kbps leak of the album surfaced intentionally as some form of a "fuck you" statement to the RIAA when he found out about the cease and desist orders they issued for the intentional USB leaks? Trent encouraged the audience when introducing the live premiere of "Survivalism" that the album would be available to steal in "a couple of weeks" (I'm not saying he planned to intentionally leak it when he made this announcement), but maybe upon hearing about the RIAA's bullshit he issued his own little "fuck you" to them by leaking his own album. He's a smart man Reznor, he knows it won't hurt record sales, not as much as it will hurt the RIAA. (If this were the case). R-Tiztik 00:37, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you bring up a good point, and knowing Reznor's history in the area it wouldn't be the first time this was suggested. I know that it has been suggested more than once he might have also purposely leaked a high quality version of the "Broken" movie. Problem is that it will never be on record anywhere that he did it because of his own legal liability so it would be speculation at best. So if he did it, bravo to him, he continues to be one of the cooler people in modern music but we will never be able to acknowledge this as being his doing in an academically sound manner. Warhorus 05:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Info that should be added somewhere

I believe it should be noted how "clean" the album is in comparison to other NIN releases. It isn't customary for Trent to not make excessive use of the word "fuck." There is also a different approach with Trent writing about someone other than himself. Both of these things are highly notable and would add to the article. 66.169.15.21

That is by no means highly notable–m.f (t • c) 21:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
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