User talk:Yarilo2

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[edit] Welcome!

Hello, Yarilo2, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

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Again, welcome! --Ghirla -трёп- 15:02, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Borodino

So are we doing this here or in my talkpage? Anyway, I'll just make some general observations about your statements.

2) "Napoleon's Invasion of Russia, 1812 " by Tarle states that the Russians did not retreat, but rather withdrew. This makes all the difference since it means that officers still had control over their soldiers and the army was still battle-ready. The loss of the village of Borodino itself never mattered to the Russian high command.

The army was not battle-ready at all after the major engagements. It was in complete tatters, which is why they withdrew. In fact, some of Kutuzov's subordinates were telling him that the army was in horrible shape. Wolzogen told Kutuzov about the lost positions and the bad condition that Russian forces were in, but Kutuzov shouted him down, at which point his entourage broke into a long applause. Wolzogen, and one of Kutuzov's adjutants (Golitsyn), believed Kutuzov was playing up to perceptions and trying to basically save his job. You'll note that Kutuzov wrote the Czar a spectacularly ridiculous letter speaking of a "great" victory. The Czar gave Kutuzov a field marshal's baton and 100,000 rubles under the impression that Moscow would not fall to Napoleon after all. He was absolutely devestated when he learned that the French had captured the Russian capital.

The main problem was Kutuzov, who was "uninvolved" to say the least. He stayed so far back from the battlefield that it became difficult to make rational command decisions or realize that by the end his forces were shattered. Colonel Toll went on a tour of inspection of the army and reported huge losses and low levels of ammunition. It is likely that with this knowledge Kutuzov decided to "withdraw," though really it was more of a necessary retreat, in the early hours of September 8.

3) You can't look at numbers and compare them so objectively. Yes, the Russians lost more troops in this battle, but that doesn't mean their losses were more important. On the contrary, the Russians could replace petty much any amount of soldiers quickly by drafting. The French on the other hand had no such reserves available.

This is a strategic consideration, and a good one too, but it doesn't highlight the tactical transpirations during the battle. The French and their allies forcefully evicted the Russians from all the major positions of the battlefield. Furthermore, on another note, there appears to be a marginal level of attention when it comes to the fall of Moscow. In retrospect we know that it did not help Napoleon, but at the time it was a huge deal, both to the French and the Russians. To the Russians it was a huge emotional blow because once Barclay had been superseded by Kutuzov, the main focus from the Russian perspective was the safety of Moscow and the flight of the enemy from native soil. They accomplished the second eventually, but failed in the first. The result line for the Battle of Borodino has to bear this out somehow.UberCryxic 16:13, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Independence date of Russia

Hi Yarilo,

The aim of the article List of states by date of self-determination is to mention countries only once on the last date a country became self-determined. Russia was part of the Soviet Union until 1991. In 1991, Russia became independent as mentioned in the article. The article List of countries by date of independence mentions multiple dates of independence per country, Russia is mentioned there in 1480.--Daanschr 12:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

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