Talk:Wizard (Middle-earth)

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Contents 1 Sourcing 2 Black Wizard 3 The Wizards aren't a separate race 4 Movie Interpretation 5 Steward 6 Socerers

[edit] Sourcing

needs more sorces

[edit] Black Wizard

I seem to recall in one of the LOTR books that Gandalf (or perhaps someone else) mentioned a Black Wizard, of which there was only one, the most powerful level a wizard could become.

There is no Istari that is colour-coded black. The only colours attributed to these guys are White, Grey, Brown and Blue, and Saruman's self-styled "of Many Colours". Perhaps you confused it with the Witch-king, the Necromancer, or something. 217.95.245.238 16:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Wizards aren't a separate race

They're Ainur in human bodies. I'm removing the category. Uthanc 14:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Movie Interpretation

Concerning the view that the Witch King breaking Gandalf's staff in the movie would be opposed to Gandalf being a maia, recall that balrogs were explicitly slain by elves (Ecthelion and Glorfindel for certain, more if you include the non-canon Fall of Gondolin). While the scene is pure media and does not reflect Tolkien's work, the incorrect scene is not necessarily impossible.

I added some further information on the issue; it is explicitly stated by Gandalf in the final book that he might not be stronger than the King of Angmar, so the scene isn't really all that "anti-Tolkien," if you get my drift. Great scene in the movie, btw; I'm amazed Jackson cut it from the theatrical version, quite frankly. Ours18 07:19, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I want to say that people thinking the breaking of the staff to be non-canon is rather strange. Non-canon according to which canon? The movie is only part of its OWN canon. Its pretty obvious no one would ever think that a scene in a movie based on a book is more credible than the actual book, so I dont see the point in that "non-canon" remark. I want to ask about what the person above Ours18 said....why is the fall of Gondolin non-canon? Gondolin fell in the Silmarillion didn't it? Mailrobot 04:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

It is also possible that breaking a staff does not directly affect a Wizard's strength, but rather limits the abilities that the Wizard can use. This is consistent with Gandalf defeating the balrog with only Glamdring at his side. It should be pointed out that in the movie adaption of the Fellowship Of the Ring Gandalf has his staff taken from him by Saurman and is forced to escape without it. Yet later on in the film, it has somehow returned. This could be an error, Gandalf could have stolen it back off screen or perhaps he created a new staff for himself when he had the time.

[edit] Steward

At one point in the book Gandalf remarks to Denethor that he too is a "Steward". Is this expanded anywhere else?--Counsel 05:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

A good discussion of this is at The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum. -- Jordi·✆ 11:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Socerers

You said that the Witch King was human, and a sorcerer. Does that mean that humans can use magic in LOTR, and they're called sorcerers? Because I haven't found that anywhere here. Jack Sparra 12:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)