Talk:William Hung

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[edit] Chinese name

William Hung is a fully Americanized Asian American - so why is his Chinese name so important that it needs to be at the beginning of the article? In fact, I find calling attention to his Chinese name at the very beginning of the article distasteful, because it seems to make a fuss over his ethnicity that wouldn't be made over Americans of other ethnicities. Would you, for example, put the Hebrew name of Joe Lieberman or Madeleine Albright at the beginning of an article about them? Don't you think that would be distasteful? It seems to imply they aren't fully American. Even in Chinese, William Hung is called "William Hung". Who calls him by his Chinese name? Does he? Do you?

66.63.126.171 06:08, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&hideminor=0&target=66.63.126.171&limit=500&offset=0

No, he is not fully Americanized. He has an obvious accent and immigrated here. Chinese American newspapers like the World Journal use that name, just as they use it for native Americans Michelle Kwan and Iris Chang. The native names of Lieberman and Albright should be used if the subject is fully fluent in the relevant language. It is wrong to imply that he was born with that name and no longer uses it. That's simply not true. The Chinese media uses that name - that's how we learned about it! [1] --Jiang 06:26, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Bill Clinton has a Chinese name in World Journal and so does Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Elvis Presley, and Prime Minister Tony Blair, but their Chinese names aren't being placed in the beginning paragraphs of their page. So why should Asian Americans have ethnic names in their description?:

Yeah Bill Clinton's Chinese name will be used in the Chinese wikipedia, and behind it will/should be written (English: William J Clinton) etc. Same for every other language. 203.218.87.69 06:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The native names of Lieberman and Albright should be used.
Well, I would find that offensive, unless they gave their permission to do so.
...if the subject is fully fluent in the relevant language.
Okay, then I agree, and only if the language has some particular relevance to them. For example, it probably wouldn't be appropriate to list Michael Jordan's French name, even if he could speak perfect French. But it might be appropriate to list a Canadian politician's name in French.
This is an English Encyclopedia. It is inappropriate to list Michael Jordan's French name except in the French version of Wikipedia unless he was given a French name at birth. Native names, however, are important biographic info. (see more discussion below) Kowloonese 10:31, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
The Chinese media uses that name - that's how we learned about it!
The Chinese print media uses Chinese characters for everyone's name, even if it's an English name like Bill Clinton or George Bush. And if you notice, they will usually put "William Hung" in pathentheses after his Chinese name. Why? Because he's better known by his English name, and the Chinese characters are there for people who can't or don't read English. 66.63.126.171 06:42, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I tend to agree with Jiang on this one, but 66... has one point -- we should at least put (Chinese:xxx) instead of just (xxx) for the Chinese name. It would at least point out that it is Chinese, instead of just assuming it now. Fuzheado 06:45, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Why is (Chinese:xxx) better than (xxx) other than crowding the page? Those who can read the native text know what they are. Those who cannot read the native text wouldn't care what they are. Kowloonese 10:31, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
I tend to believe that the level of emphasis that should be placed on the person's Chinese name should vary with the degree of "Chineseness" they still display. For example, the Lucy Liu and Gary Locke articles (both of whom are American born) appropriately place their Chinese names after the first paragraph, with the phrase "His/Her Chinese name is...". 66.63.126.171 07:04, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I disagree. The additional name is put there for identity purpose, not an emphasis. If Lucy Liu's Chinese name is insignificant to some people (e.g. the Chinese community), no one would have known her Chinese name in the first place. Even if Lucy Liu does not speak a word of Chinese, her Chinese name is still significant when future scholars want to research on how the Chinese community documented her impact to the Chinese society or the lack of. Perhaps her grandparents who may not speak a word of English had told an exclusive story about her on a Chinese newspaper. If you say her Chinese name is insignificant, you are just shutting out the native source of research material. The person's Chineseness has nothing to do with whether he/she is known by his/her native name. By the same argument, Marco Polo's Chinese name is a significant piece of information because without it no one can verify if he was really in China. One will NEVER find the name "Marco Polo" spelt in any Chinese historical document. The Chineseness of Marco Polo (the person) will not change the significance of his Chinese name.
Good point, but "Chineseness" is a pretty hard thing to pin down, and what degrees of it do we measure? Now William Hung is not the best example of this, because he was born and lived in HK before going to CA, so the argument could definitely be made for putting his name up top. However, there are indeed Chinese American actors or celebrities who don't identify much at all with their Chinese roots, who would not really care for or like the Chinese names next to them. Fuzheado 07:13, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Fine, fine, I agree. I guess I'm not really that familiar with William Hung and overestimated his Americanness. So you can put his Chinese name back up top. 66.63.126.171 07:30, 1 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I am responsible for causing this controversy. I put the Chinese text in the article. When the Chinese name is next to his name in paranthesis, it is NOT an emphasis. It is just like John Doe (aka Jack Doe ... etc). The use of paranthesis around the name means it was meant as a side note, definitely NOT an emphasis. I would have used boldface for an emphasis. If you add a special sentence to just mention his Chinese name, then I'll call that an emphasis even without the boldface.

By the way you got the Simplified wrong. Fixed it now. Also changed the order of the "Chineses" because Trad. is used in HK and he speaks Cantonese not Mandarin. 203.218.87.69 06:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The reason why William Hung's Chinese name was added and rightfully belong to the article is that it IS his native name regardless of what he is known as in this country. If Joe Lieberman was given a Hebrew name at birth, then his native Hebrew name SHOULD be mentioned along with his popular English name. Of course, if he kept his Hebrew name private, it is not necessary to mention it. Just like George Bush is our president's native name regardless how he is called by the Chinese newspaper or even if he emigrates to China. William Hung was born in Hong Kong. That means he had a life and some history there before he moved to the US and became known to the Americans. An encyclepedia article should contain information that will help future scholars to do further research on the subject. Names and aliases fall in that catagory. The native name, e.g. William's Chinese name, is especially significant for an article about any person. By knowing William's Chinese name, people may be able to dig up his birth certificate or school reports from Hong Kong, or interview his friends back there etc. There may be 20 thousand William Hungs in Hong Kong, knowing the Chinese name of this particular William do help in identifying him from all the others.
Honestly, if someone finds his own native name distasteful, no one would have known about it except his own mother. For example, there is absolutely no reference to Vera Wang's Chinese name anywhere on the Internet because she either doesn't use one or keeps it private. Yet William's Chinese name was printed everywhere.
BTW, William Hung IS NOT called "William Hung" in Chinese. What do you think those funny characters are if you truly believe he is called "William Hung" in Chinese? His Chinese name is HUNG Hing Cheung, not "HUNG Wil Liam". What you said doesn't make any sense at all. Kowloonese 09:43, 16 May 2004 (UTC)
The above-above-mentioned has a weird line of logic. He is offended when Hung's Chinese name is being used. Does being "more Chinese" (whatever it means) take away from one being American? Why can't someone be 100% Chinese and 100% American at the same time? Or 100% Jew and 100% American, for that matter? What's wrong with the two co-existing at the same time? Strange. Mandel 19:34, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
This type of logic is common for people who cannot tell apart ethnicity vs nationality. These are the same people who believe all Chinese Americans spy for China. William Hung may be a spy from Hong Kong!!! Kowloonese 20:23, 19 May 2004 (UTC)


Believe it or not: William Hung is the 81st-generation descendant of Confucius. (His ancestor used to give harsh criticism to off-tune music, and would certainly not have approved of the path to publicity Hing Cheong has chosen for himself)--Changcheng

Where did you get this info? --Jiang 05:49, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
William did recognize himself so. The point for us is to confirm it.
There's somewhere which shows the (main) descendents of Confucious and one of them included as an external link in the Wikipedia entry. They have the same middle name ("Hing" 慶 for William's case) in the same generation.
According to that table, William should be the 73rd-generation descendent of Confucious if his name follows the rule, and what we have to do is find out whether his father's name follows the rule or not (For this case the elder Hung's middle name should be "Hin" 憲) and if it is so, the fact is said to be confirmed, and should be added to the article.
Patrickov 11:36, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I heard on the news that he is making a Christmas album. Anyone has details? Kowloonese 22:25, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

what about an abstract at the beginning of the article? it's a bit lengthy to read before you actually get what this guy is about

I am an Asian male, I cannot stand how my race is being mocked and how this WH guy just takes it with a bucktooth grin.

I insist on removing his Chinese name from this text because it is THOROUGHLY irrelevant. He is not a recent immigrant of the United States (in fact, came here in 1993, went to HS and college here) and neither is he an international student on a VISA. He auditioned for American Idol while performing a Ricky Martin song - not a Chinese song and neither is he performing any form of great feat the emphasizes or even includes any form of Chinese culture. Any mention of his Chinese name is just IRRELEVENT, not necessarily offensive or racist.

[edit] Simon's Line

i have the video and will gladly send it to ANYONE to prove that he says "what do you want me to say?". I seriously doubt anyone who says they have an audio or video clip of the audition does if they say its anything else. if you want the clip, just ask. It is kind of futile making a correct edit to wikipedia when people keep changing it back. So you made a mistake, who cares... let the wikipedia be correct. Your pride has nothing to do with it. It's not a mere coincidence that random people have made the same edit.

In this case, please use the Edit summary and provide links to published sources. Otherwise, questionable edits by IP addresses are often automatically reverted since these tend to be vandalism.--Jiang 02:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
This is very much a case in which there isn't real documentation except in copyrighted video/audio clips. I will search for a publication, though. This has to be just one of those times where everyone comes to a mutual agreement.--marv3fan
Found documentation at http://www.thinksmart.com/home/good_morning.html, right hand frame, second down.

[edit] Date

Initial fame: "His audition was the final one on the January 27, 2009 installation, the coup de grâce of an hour-long episode that showcased other would-be pop stars, mostly lacking in talent."

2009? --68.35.207.220 00:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Can someone please replace that ridiculous picture and put in a decent one? Thanks! --Tuspm 12:54, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, that was vandalism. I've reverted it. -- MisterHand 14:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Kudos to that picture, the cropping on those specific letters in the sign is a nice touch... Jeff schiller 18:27, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beets?

Is there any truth to the rumor that William Hung's favorite food is beets? Okonkwo68.38.127.139 18:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

"Harold, eat your beets." (Harold and Maude)

[edit] Did he get ripped off?

If they paid him $25,000 then sold 195,000 CDs didn't he get ripped off? I don't know how much normal singers get but a dollar seems logical, he was shorted 170 grand!!!

[edit] Where the irony is ?

"There is a degree of irony in the situation"

Hey, how about we let the readers decide where the irony is. It's like saying, "Here's a funny joke: two men walk down the road." Tell the joke and then let everyone decide if it is funny.

This needs to be reworded. BTW, irony is in the beholder, not in a situation.--The burning bush 00:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Somebody came through and made a lot of stupid edits, mostly along the lines of "American Idol Sucks Balls." Got that all cleared out, I think...if you find any I missed, zap 'em. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.126.163.20 (talk) 00:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Pasadena City College

What is this about William Hung choosing to go to Pasadena City College? This is neither well known nor cited. I think this may be a result of vandalism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.135.40.75 (talk) 05:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC).

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