Wikipedia talk:WikiProject hip hop/Archive 2

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Contents

categories

I'm so glad I asked you guys to help with the sorting. We zipped through it. Next up is Category:Rappers:

We should rip through this one cus it's much smaller than Category:Hip hop musicians. We'll be done with all categorization of Category:Hip hop really soon at this rate. Peace, --Urthogie 10:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

While slowly trying to help you out with Category:Rappers, I came across Category:Artist-producers. I encountered many pages with rappers who are also producers that should go in that list. Looks like more category sorting after this... - Tutmosis 01:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I notice that there are some groups in Category:Rappers and its subcategories. I assume that's OK, but I just thought I'd check. Does the group have to be all rappers to qualify for inclusion? Wu-Tang was removed from the Five Percent category on the grounds that only some of them are Five Percenters. Should N.W.A. therefore be removed from Category:Rappers and its subcategories, as Yella never was a rapper (AFAIK)? If Category:Rappers and its subcategories are unsuitable for groups, is Category:Hip hop groups close enough, or do we need a Category:Rap groups? Tim Ivorson 2006-05-24

We have a Category:Freestyle Rappers. I think it should be moved or deleted. I won't move or populate now it, in case it gets deleted. Tim Ivorson 2006-05-24

Groups shouldn't be in category:rappers, but wu-tang affiliates should be in it-- the page is basically a list of rappers for wu-tang(the wu-tang clan article itself would stay in the groups category). So NWA should not be in Category:Rappers regardless of whos in it. I think a rap groups category would be confusing. As far as Category:Freestyle Rappers, that should definitely be deleted- its subjective who's a "freestyler"-- how many times must you freestlye be in that cat? Yeah.--Urthogie 13:57, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying. That does make sense (after all, NWA is not a rapper). I've removed three of the four hip hop groups whose names I recognised in Category:Rappers. I'm about to removed the other one. Tim Ivorson 2006-05-24

Where do dead DJs go? Before anybody says they go to the big sound clash in the sky, I mean do they go into Category:Dead rappers? I took Jam Master Jay out of Category:Dead rappers, but that was reverted and the article remains there. Do we need Category:Dead DJs? Should Category:Dead rappers be moved? Tim Ivorson 2006-05-24

I dn't think we need a separate category for Dead DJs. If it has their death date and they are not included in Category:Living people, that should suffice.--Rockero 16:18, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Tim Ivorson original comment, I though no one should be in Category:Rappers except for the subcategories? I've been removing this category from each of the listed artist pages, same thing with Category:hip hop musicians, while inserting (if not already there) more specific categories such as Category:American rappers... - Tutmosis 21:34, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

You are correct. Nobody should be in both Category:Rappers and a subcategory of it. Tuf-Kat 22:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
...those subcategories are where artists should be in... or are u being sarcastic... - Tutmosis 02:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
He's just saying cat's shouldn't overlap. By the way, I think Jam Master Jay may have been a rapper as well? Perhaps that's why he was in there?--Urthogie 08:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
If JMJ rapped, that would be sufficient reason. I wondered if that was the case, but neither my memory, nor the article confirmed it. Perhaps Tutmosis read Tuf-Kat's comment as "nobody should be in either Category:Rappers or a subcategory of it", which certainly isn't the case. Tim Ivorson 2006-05-25
I read his comment and replied to it right after, or did you mean something else?... - Tutmosis 22:19, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
What a comedy of errors this discussion is! Tutmosis: Tim Ivorson was speculating that you may have interpreted my comment as meaning that nobody should be in Category:Rappers and, in addition, that notbody should be in any subcategory of it (i.e. rappers should not be categorized). That's not what I meant. Nobody should be in both Category:Rappers and and a subcategory of it. If someone is a Category:French rapper, then he's already a member of Category:Rappers (because Category:French rappers is a subcategory of it), so listing them both would be redundant. Tuf-Kat 22:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
First part of your reply still doesnt make sense since your thinking of something other than me. But for the second part, its exactly what I think also and have been doing. - Tutmosis 01:19, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Well then I'm confused about who's talking to who too, but we're all in agreement anyway AFAICT. Tuf-Kat 01:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
"'I was looking at you, but talking to him'. 'Oh, really' 'Yes?' 'No, that's me'. 'You see how confusing it is?'" Tim Ivorson 2006-05-26
Sorry Tutmosis. I made two unrelated comments with not so much as a paragraph break between them. Tim Ivorson 2006-05-26
No need to appologize. I have a new concern. Categories in Category:Rappers by nationality, who should be in them?... artists who were born in that country or artists who are active in that country, or both? Example if say someone was born in Poland but moved to the States and is active there, would we put him in Category:Polish rappers or no...? If yes would we also put him in Category:American Rappers? - Tutmosis 14:42, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Categorization of people doesn't say, but Category:New York musicians says it's for musicians based in New York. Slick Rick is categorised as both an American rapper and a British rapper, but I think he's based purely in the US. James Naughtie is in Category:Scottish radio personalities, even though he broadcasts from England to the whole of Britain. I think you can find a precedent for any kind of categorisation. The only relevant guideline I can find is to limit the number of categories containing each article. I think I read somewhere that categories should contain every important example of the thing in question, so if your Polish rapper is particularly notable as such, the article should be in Category:Polish rappers. Tim Ivorson 2006-05-27
Say Eminem's ancestry happened to be primarily Polish (could be, but let's pretend), he wouldn't belong in Category:Polish rappers because he doesn't rap in Polish, doesn't primarily identify as Polish, nor does his audience identify with him primarily because of his Polishness, nor is he more popular in Poland or among Polish people than would be expected for any other American popular musician. An American who primarily performed for Polish-American audiences maybe should be in both. Tuf-Kat 18:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you both. I dont think (as an example) if anyone doesnt rap or identifiy with Poland they shouldn't be in Category:Polish rappers. They rather belong in Category:People of Polish descent. The reason I asked is because I saw a number of artists in two subcategories from Category:Rappers by nationality. I guess now we gonna have to go back to each artist and check that they are only in one... and maybe add a category like Category:People of Polish descent if they are polish descent or any other nation. Actually thinking about, maybe we could make a whole project page on categorizing explaing who/what goes where & why...? - Tutmosis 19:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

What I've been doing(and I created most the nationality cats) is putting them in both if they're both. Why not? If someone is an Italian-American theyre italian and american. If they're a Nigerian German, they're both, no? Tell me what you guys think, but lets not jump the gun (and go and set them all) until we decide on a uniform policy.--Urthogie 21:42, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Well I agree with you to some extent but I'm mainly talking about subcategories of Category:Rappers by nationality. I dont see any point to put an artist in both lets say Category:American rappers and Category:German rappers. Why, well because this categories imply that they are rappers in that specific country or language. Not many rappers rap into 2 languages therefore I think most shouldn't be in 2 categories but only one otherwise one becomes a false statement. Example that was brought up was, eminem, if I knew nothing on him and saw him in Category:Polish rappers, I would assume that he raps in polish and/or lives in Poland which is not true to my knowledge. - Tutmosis 23:34, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
What I've been doing is I've been including where they have citizenship as well as where they were born. So I wouldn't put Eminem in polish, but I would put an Polish immigrant in both american and polish.--Urthogie 08:26, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

"tip drill" -- question here?

Hey, I don't know if this is an okay place to bring this up (I am pretty new to editing on Wikipedia at all, and just now bumped into WikiProject hip hop, which I'm very glad to see), so forgive me if this question is out of place. I thought to put it in the tip drill entry area, but it didn't look like that entry was getting much activity. Anyway, I am teaching a class on hip hop and we were discussing Nelly's "Tip Drill" video; I told the students that my understanding of the term was that it was, first, a basketball term, and then, as used in the video, meant basically gang bang, as opposed to "butterhead," which I think I left in the definition, although without use of that particular slur term. Anyway, several of my students informed me that the term meant "throwing cash at," as in throwing (or drilling) out cash as a tip (which you do see numerous times in the video). I told them I'd check on this and make corrections to the Wikipedia entry -- which led to a great discussion on the integrity of Wikipedia, but I digress. Any feedback on this, including whether I should have posted this elsewhere, would be appreciated. Thanks. Dr. B 02:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello, Doctor. Probably the best place to put this comment would be Talk:Tip drill - talk pages are usually best for discussing specific articles. It's fine to bring it here, but it would be best for people to discuss the question on the talk page, where I copied your question. Λυδαcιτγ(TheJabberwock) 03:36, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanx; I saw it there -- don't know if/when it will be answered, but I appreciate your move, Λυδ. Dr. B

DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince: article cleanups

I just added the "WikiProject hip hop" tag to each of the articles relating to DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince's albums. Will soon go back and add the album template and single template to each article relating to their albums/singles. -- Jalabi99 15:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Some one needs to take initiative.....

Within the past weeks, the wiki project has been more inactive and stagnant than its over been before. The project right now seems to be lacking leadership and direction so members arent really active in the project with the exception of a few of course (my thanks goes out to PONY for alerting the members about the possible deletion of The golden age of hip hop). Chubdub 21:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I encourage anyone to tip off the project of anything controversial, as PONY did.--Urthogie 10:25, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

two things

  • Rapping: Please see to-do list on the talk page. We'll have to do the stuff suggested at Featured Article Nomination to get it Featured.
  • The announcements template: For now on, how about we make a habit of putting all deletion discussions up there?--Urthogie 09:05, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I definetely agree with point 2 and regarding the first point, you think we should put it in the Announcements template? Something like "Please provide some feedback on the article rapping on its talk page to help it achieve featured status" or something in that sense. I think it be a good idea. What you think? - Tutmosis 22:19, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Sounds like a great idea.--Urthogie 08:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

created template for barnstar

{{Hh-barnstar}}

Syntax is {{hh-barnstar|heading|message}}--Urthogie 07:44, 2 June 2006 (UTC)


the TRUTH about OBEY & Shepard Fairey

People, please. Shepard Fairey is NOT a graffiti artist. He is a sticker bomber & wheatpaster. He has NEVER used spray paint as the main medium of his so-called phenomenology acts. Stop adding him to the WIKIPEDIA LIST of GRAFFITI artists. It is an insult to anyone on that list who has ever risked their life or freedom in the name of GRAFFITI. "Wildstyles", anyone ? Instead of continuously overlooking the facts, one of you should research the company FUCT™ & its creator Erik Brunetti. If anyone on this website wants to uncover the "truth", it will be well worth your time. I would even say that it would be a great contribution to the world of information. For starters, you can log on to this website: [[1]]. Good luck.

-Brighton58Brighton58 03:03, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I dont know much about graffiti artists but why do you assume Shepard Fairey is not a graffiti artist because he does not use spray paint? Isnt spray paint just a very popular and widely used medium by graffiti artists since its easy to get and easy to use? - Tutmosis 21:18, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Album stubs and OR analysis

I've just joined the project, and haven't done much yet save add Princess Superstar Is and Return of the Boom Bap, and fix up Fast Cars, Danger, Fire and Knives to mention that it was released twice. But working on albums has made me wonder: when is an album's entry no longer considered a stub? Some albums really don't have all that much that can be said about them; Princess Superstar Is is probably one of those examples. Blazing Arrow seems to have everything that article really can -- there's no controversy surrounding it, it makes brief mention of all the guest appearances and some samples, etc. The only other thing I can think of is chart position. I'd just like to start trimming the album stub cat down a bit. Anyone else got an idea of the criteria I should use?

Also, I deleted an "About the album" section from My Machine as original research on the recommendation of another editor (from an IRC conversation), but then realized that these are pretty common (Encore, amongst some others that I'm too lazy to find again), and I'm certainly not gonna go on a deletion spree. I was just curious how others felt, and if anyone could cite some examples from more established articles. --Philodespotos 05:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

The recently featured article Illmatic can give you some information of what an album article should look like. Speaking from my memory, an album article should contain production, reception/criticism, chart information like you mentioned, any promotions, album design and awards if any. To my knowledge there are a more song featured articles than there are album ones which I would think would be much harder to find information on a song than an album so it shouldn't be too hard. That aside, glad you joined the team. - Tutmosis 20:51, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Compliance with other WikiProjects

Everyone, pelase be sure to follow the guidelines set by related WikiProjects for consistency. I've noticed a lot of articles which use Template:Infobox musical artist 2 and Template:Album infobox without proper color codes, formatting, etc. Please refer to the Template:Infobox musical artist 2 page for use of the former, and to Wikipedia: WikiProject Albums for use of the latter. --FuriousFreddy 06:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thats a good point. We have a section about it on the front page. Anything you think we should add to it? - Tutmosis 20:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
The Categories heading on the front page needs to be expanded to list what's available, since right now it's just got the hip hop parent, and then the list of stub cats. I'd just been tagging with cat:hip hop, didn't know cat:hip hop albums existed. I'd do it but obviously I dunno what they are. --Philodespotos 00:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
You bring up a good point but if we expand it then it will make the page even larger. Now do we want that or another solution would be to move all that sort of stuff to a seperate page like Wikipedia:WikiProject hip hop/Manual of Style? - Tutmosis 00:48, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I think we should do it more like Wikipedia:WikiProject hip hop/Categories first, and make specific pages like that.--Urthogie 15:30, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Dead Underground Rappers

We now have Category:Dead Underground Rappers. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-06

Lol.--Urthogie 15:12, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
... - Tutmosis 21:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
I've asked for its deletion in the Category:Dead rappers CFD, so hopefully a seperate deletion wont be necessary.--Urthogie 07:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

We also have Category:Underground rappers. Isn't it pretty vague and subjective where to draw the line between underground and mainstream? Surely the most obviously underground artists are the least notable ones. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-09

André 3000's education?

I've heard that André 3000 has some sort of Phd in music. Is this right? His atricle has no information on his musical education. --Howdybob 01:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration

What's going on with Rapping? Are we going to have another go at getting it featured, or what? Λυδαcιτγ 01:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I haven't had the time lately to go and put some major work into it. However, today is my last day of school and I think if you guys help me we can get it featured very soon.--Urthogie 08:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
No offense. I appreciate all the hard work you have done on your article, but I believe we should move on to another article. I suggest Tupac Shakur. There's still a lot to do on this article, and it seems that no one is really contributing to it. Chubdub 18:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Modern hip hop

Template:Hiphop now links to the nonexistent article modern hip hop. I wonder whether the article on modern hip hop, when it exists, should be called "modern hip hop". We have new school hip hop, but that's just a disambiguation page. Is modern and new school hip hop too prone to dating quickly or too subjective to merit an article? I think "hip hop from $YEAR1 to $YEAR2" would be preferable. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-09

Yeah, I think Modern is not the right word, because for all we know we might be in some bronze age or silver age or whatever the fuck right now. I have no clue how to solve this.--Urthogie 14:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I know we need an article there (that's why I changed the template). I would say, just start by copying info from the Modern section of History of hip hop music. Then we can go more into depth on, for example, 50 Cent.
As for the title, I think "Modern" is the best option we have, precisely because we're not sure what era we are in yet. It would be WP:OR to make up a name like "The Eminem Era" for the past few years. I think we're pretty much forced to violate Wikipedia:Avoid statements that will date quickly, unless someone can find a better name. Λυδαcιτγ 03:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Who are the people of the future to tell us that we live in a dark age? I think that "modern hip hop" might be original research. It's a term that I've not encountered outside Wikipedia. "New school hip hop" might be vague (the disambiguation page seems only to exist because "new" isn't objectively precise), but it is used beyond Wikipedia. Wouldn't "hip hop since [year of end of golden age]" be even better? It's neither vague nor an original brand name. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-13

In defense of "Modern hip hop," I don't think we're using it as a proper noun, so it's not really original research. The only original research would be deciding when the golden age ended, and when modern began.
I would be OK with "Hip hop since 1993," although it is such an ugly name for an article. But either is fine with me. Λυδαcιτγ 19:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't like "modern" in this context because it makes me think of post-medieval. I know that's stupid of me, but "modern" does seem extremely vague. Arguably "modern" would allow Wikipedia to concentrate on hip hop at particular times, rather than exactly what people mean by "new school", but perhaps there should be a proper article at new school hip hop, because that's what people talk about in the real world. I don't think that "new school hip hop" needs disambiguation on a separate page, just because we don't all use it to refer to the same thing, any more than "gangsta rap" does. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-14
Honestly, I don't talk much about hip hop in the real world. I'll leave the naming decision up to someone who does. Λυδαcιτγ 00:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

"Greatest G-Funk songs"

The only edits to the G-funk article so far this month (apart from my reverts and 83.18.180.162's alphabetical sorting) have been to add a "Greatest G-Funk songs" list. The offending edits are all by new or unregistered contributors, so they could all be dealt with by semi-protection. However, it's not really vandalism. As I'm the only one reverting these edits, I wonder whether I'm missing something. Would it be appropriate for me to take further action, if necessary? Tim Ivorson 2006-06-13

You certainly would not be able to get semiprotection for it - the criteria for SP are pretty high. I don't think it's a major problem, since there have only been a couple of recent edits, and as you point out, they're not really vandalism. Λυδαcιτγ 19:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I didn't make myself clear. I'm not proposing to protect it, but I am proposing to stop removing the section, because revert wars are bad and I seem to be outnumbered. If I should do otherwise, let me know. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-14
Ah, I see. I would say keep on reverting. There's no doubt that that violates WP:NPOV, so you have the full support of the community at your back. I'm facing a similar situation with List of computer pranks, and I think that the vandals are giving up in that case. Anyway, I'll put G-funk on my watchlist, and I can help you out with the POV problem. Λυδαcιτγ 00:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the lists and cited a policy on the talk page. Tuf-Kat 01:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Categories again

Diggin' in the Crates Crew won't appear in Category:D.I.T.C.. Why? Tim Ivorson 2006-06-14

To answer my own question, there was a similar category (Category:Diggin' in the Crates Crew) and that confused me. ProveIt and xaosflux have corrected that. I seem to recall following a link from Diggin' in the Crates Crew to Category:D.I.T.C. and not finding that article listed, but that must be a false memory. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-16

We have categories Death Row (which I find ambiguous and lists Suge Knight as a rapper) and Fast Paced Rappers. Category:Non DJ Clue Apperances is being considered for deletion. WikiProject hip hop lists Category:Hip hop singers as being considered for deletion, but doesn't link to the discussion and neither does the category page. Where is it? Tim Ivorson 2006-06-16

Category:Mixtape albums

This entire category needs cleanup, for several reasons.

  1. Many of the articles in the category viloate Wikipedia guidelines for infobox usage, infobox colors, and article formatting.
  2. Many of the articles are just plain unnotable (and unreadable) besides, some are nothing but tracklists and almost stink of fancruft or self-promotion.

Also, a guideline should be established that only mixtapes both sanctioned by the artist and of significant historical or cultural note shopuld be uploaded. Any moron with a CD burner can make a mixtape, and any artist can turn out tweleve or more essentially nondecript mixtapes in a year if he feels like it. This needs to be taken care of immediately, before peopel start submitting articles on every sample in creation. --FuriousFreddy 01:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

(I assume by "uploaded" mixtapes you mean text added about them, rather than audio from them added.) Mixtape albums are albums, so only album inclusion criteria apply. Surely, for a mixtape to be suitable for inclusion it only needs to be sanctioned by a notable artist or itself of note. Proper mixtapes don't belong in Category:Mixtape albums, even if they do merit articles. I think that the articles about notable mixtape DJs deserve mentions of their mixtapes, even if the mixes themselves don't merit articles. So far, the Marley Marl article makes no mention of his mixtapes and Wikipedia appears to lack articles about notable mixtape DJs (for example, DJ Vlad and DJ G Brown). Tim Ivorson 2006-06-18
I agree with everything said above. It's true that are surely getting out of control with their exponentially growing number, so I decided to create a category to keep an eye on them and tried to establish a standtard on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums/Archive 6#Category:Mixtape albums but noone bothered to deal with it. So I kept on handling the situation (changing infobox colors, constantly searching for new entries and categorize them, even looking for notability in case of 50 Cent is the Future, which is a charted mixtape). So If we can form a unit that would set up standards for them (I think The first thing should be a separate infobox color) and stuff like this, then I'm in. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 17:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
And oh yes I agree also that there are so few DJ-related articles. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 17:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Enta Da Stage

My page on Enta Da Stage was recently added and removed from the Good Articles list, what do y'all think of it, I just gave it some serious work, is it worthy of any nominations? --PDTantisocial 08:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It looks fairly thorough, but I haven't read much of it and I don't know much about Black Moon. I think that you should look at "How Many MC's..." Allmusic gives it as "How Many Emcees (Must Get Dissed)", without the incorrect apostrophe. What's up with the really long URLs? They screw up the page width. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-21

The tracklisting on the album sleeve and the album case list it as "MC's...", the remixed version from Diggin' in Dah Vaults was titled "How Many Emcees [Must Get Dissed]". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PDTantisocial (talk • contribs) 2006-06-21.

Fair enough. Still, the long URLs are a major nuisance when comparing two versions. Where did you get them? An allmusic.com search returns short URLs. Tim Ivorson 2006-06-22

...

I don't know, half the time I go on allmusic it gives me the long ones, half the time it gives me the short ones, I don't know why. --PDTantisocial 09:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Alternative hip hop

So is the Alternative hip hop article being split into two different articles (Underground rap and Alternative hip hop) or what? See talk page... Chubdub 22:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

What's with all of the inactivity???

Does anyone give a shit about this project anymore???? Chubdub 23:32, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm busy now. I'll try to get back to working on the collaborations and stuff soon. Λυδαcιτγ 04:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

infobox

Seems to me you guys are using different infoboxes than the guys at the musicians wikiproject You both should be using the same thing IMO. --Jaysscholar 20:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Can you explain exactly what you are talking about? Link here the page the you find questionable. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 22:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
WP:MUSICIAN are using {{Infobox musical artist}} and you guys are using {{Infobox Band}}. I think you both should be using the same thing. Emcees are musical artists so their infoboxes should be the same as musical artists. No since in Emcees to have different infoboxes. Also the musical artist infobox seems to have everything the band has plus more. --Jaysscholar 12:52, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
On the front page of this project it says you guys use the infobox band, but then on Rakim's page, he uses a musical artist box. James Brown uses musical artist, but not Dr. Dre. It should be uniform across genres in my opinion. --Jaysscholar 12:58, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Anybody want to clarify which one you are using? --Jaysscholar 17:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox musical artist is the one to use. It was created and standardized some time after the front hip-hop project page was created. --FuriousFreddy 05:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Received an Invite

Lajbi gave me an invite to join this. I'm interested, I can help out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xxplosive (talk • contribs).

Lyrics Born Same !@#$ Different Day

I created that page, but for some reason the page title is "Same !@" instead of the full "Same !@#$ Different Day". Can someone fix that, cuz I'm completely clueless.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xxplosive (talk • contribs).

The "#" symbol is used in the URL to skip to headers wtihin the artcile. In the very case it would mean "jump to $ Different Day section in the Same !@ page". See Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(technical_restrictions)#Characters_not_allowed_at_all_in_page_titles. But I don't know how to fix it. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 10:52, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you should change the title to Same !@$ Different Day or Same !@+$ Different Day and place this at the top of the page Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 10:55, 20 July 2006 (UTC) :

The correct title of this article is !@#$. The substitution or omission of a # sign is due to technical restrictions..


Ok I added the sentence above. The page title still remains as "Same!@". I did a search for "Same !@#$ Different Day" and it led to that page, so I think it's alright. If I knew how I would change the page title to something more appropriate.--Xxplosive 19:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Same_!@#$_Different_Day redirects to Same_!@ for some reason. But you got the naming thing at the top of the article so I think it'll do. --Jaysscholar 20:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
I also made a couple of redirects from Same !@$ Different Day and Same Shit Different Day--Jaysscholar 20:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
Fixed title. I kept the Same !@ one, so from now on Same !@#$ Different Day will redirect to Same !@$ Different Day. BTW nice job Xxplosive. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 10:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. It's great that there's a group that's dedicated to hip-hop. --Xxplosive 01:06, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The Silenced Revolution

The Silenced Revolution is proposed for deletion. I have no idea whether it ought to be deleted, but the removal of the link from Immortal Technique to it rings alarm bells for me. Please have a look. Tim Ivorson 2006-07-25

Answered here. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 11:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Emcee's Styles

I think a effort should be made to describe to some extent an emcee's style on that particular emcee's page. I think the Nas#Musical_style_and_Technique section of Nas' article is a good example of how each section should look. Emcee's with complex and unique styles would especially benefit. This description would definitly help further the readers understanding of the emcee and Hip-Hop in general. Anybody else agree? If so, I'd be glad to contribute. --Jaysscholar 19:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Definitely. However, watch out for over-positive and hyperbolic writing, and the fan-written POV that tends to creep into artist articles. Better to describe what is unusual about a certain artist than to try to praise them or rank them highly on a certain attribute.
Anyway, by all means go ahead, and keep us posted if you get a chance. Λυδαcιτγ 19:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, what are your suggesstions? I think we should define certain classifications that certain emcee's fall into. Cuz from there, we can describe how they fit in/differ from certain preset sttyles. This will make it easier and less likely for POV.
And I can't do it by myself. I'm looking for others to hop in.--Jaysscholar 19:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
We should start with the originators/legends first (Rakim, Slick Rick, Run DMC, Jay-Z, Nas) and go from there. Most everybody sounds like one of them nowadays so it'll be easy to do the rest. --Jaysscholar 20:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
That's not neccessarily a good idea, because that introduces original research (personal reports) into articles. It would be better to references and/or quote directly from music texts, journalistic articles, and interviews, rather than trying to describe ourselves what someone sounds like, and especially instead of creating categories to drop rappers' styles into. That "musical style and technique" section at the Nas article is a big step in the wrong direction: it's original research and POV. --FuriousFreddy 05:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I agree with FuriousFreddy. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 12:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
You bring up a very good point on the original research thing. MAybe there's another way --Jaysscholar 01:36, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
There are certainly plenty of secondary sources out there. A good general resource is the All Music Guide, but more specific sites may be necessary for in-depth description of techniques. Λυδαcιτγ 20:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Super DJ Clark Kent up for deletion

Super DJ Clark Kent is up for deletion, and it's starting to look ugly in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Super DJ Clark Kent. If anyone has some time to chime in, please do so. Thanks. hateless 18:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Voted. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 22:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Copied your request to Wikipedia:WikiProject Music/Noticeboard and voted. Λυδαcιτγ 03:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Pumpkinhead's Orange Moon Over Brooklyn

I finished the article, but I need help with some lyrics to the song "Jukebox".

I "Know The Ledge", but she didn't understand
I could get psycho, and "Just Kill A Man"
"Tonight's The Night", "My Uzi Weighs A Ton" ????
I'm "Poppa Large", big shot of the East Cost

I can't figure out what he's saying after "my uzi weighs a ton". If someone could help out, that'd be great. --Xxplosive 00:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Wonder if it's copyvio to insert lyrics. Even if you wrote down for the first time after listening the tape. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 12:30, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Why would it be a copyright infringement? That means that sites that host lyrics are breaking the law too.--Xxplosive 03:28, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
You can't write down and distribute/publish Edgar Allen Poe just because you read it and remember every word by heart. I think only the writer/owner has the right to publish it (and even if he do so he still owns the copyright). Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 08:38, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
You're correct that you can't distribute Poe just because you remember every word, but I think that Poe's work is in the public domain. He died in 1849 and US copyrights seem to run from the date of creation rather than the date of publishing. (NWA's Straight Outta Compton, for example, is copyright 1988 and published 1989, IIRC.) 156 years seems a long time for works to remain copyrighted and Project Gutenberg, the Internet Archive and LibriVox distribute "The Raven" on the grounds that its copyright has expired. [2] Also, I think that copyright doesn't restrict quotation for critical and educational purposes, which counts as fair use (though the details confuse me, especially as the US is a foreign country to me). I think that copyright holders would be silly to exercise their rights to restrict the distribution of lyrics written in full if it is the performances that make the money. Tim Ivorson 2006-07-31
It is copyright infringement, and yes, they are breaking the law: see [3] and [4]. Tim, I think you're right that until recently the lyrics sites operated with relatively little interference from the copyright holders. But now that Gracenote intends to make money from lyrics, I expect there will be more legal battles in this area.
As for fair use, I believe it only applies in a limited way. See, for example, this site's description of using only four lines of lyrics. Λυδαcιτγ 15:40, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Can someone figure out what the lyrics are??? I can't understand what he's saying after "my uzi weighs a ton". I'm sure if it was a copyright infringment, then the moderators would have cleaned it up. --Xxplosive 03:45, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, Xxplosive. I'd never heard of Pumpkinhead before you asked. OHHLA lists Pumpkinhead, but doesn't have a transcription of that rap. [5] LyricWiki doesn't even list Pumpkinhead. [6] Tim Ivorson 2006-08-02
If I'm allowed to, I can upload the song through yousendit and post the link here. Anyone that wants to help can listen to the part that I'm confused with, and try to decipher it. Just let me know if I'm allowed to upload the song.--Xxplosive 05:19, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Go ahead!! YouTube is not Wikipedia. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 10:04, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Ok here's the link to download the song: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=1E7E1C3A5A8A5351 . The part I need help with starts at 2:10.--Xxplosive 15:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
It sounds like "under my heathcoat", but I'm not sure that makes sense. I can't think of a rap title that would fit there. Tim Ivorson 2006-08-03
It might not be a rap song title. It could just be a few words to finish off the sentence. Your suggestion sounds pretty close though. He's talking about the uzi weighing a lot, and a heathcoat is something that is overweight. So it could just be that you're right. --Xxplosive 04:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

C-Rayz Walz's Ravipops

I'm not sure what the last track is called for Ravipops (The Substance). If someone could confirm by checking the CD, and if someone could also find the production credits for that one song. Props in advance. --Xxplosive 04:16, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

The most possible tracklist is :
  • 1. Floe
  • 2. Essence, The
  • 3. Guns And Butter
  • 4. Protect My Family
  • 5. Thug Melody
  • 6. '86
  • 7. Lineup, The
  • 8. Buck 80
  • 9. Battle Me
  • 10. Elephant Guns
  • 11. We Live
  • 12. Yeah
  • 13. Seal Killa
  • 14. Dead Buffalos
  • 15. Camouflage
  • 16. 3 Card Molly
  • 17. Revelations 15:2 Fuhks - (Maddcold)
Though allmusic says the last track is "Moses" all other sources [7] [8] show different that is "Revelations 15:2 Fuhks" featuring Moses. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 12:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Some mess articles - Let's collect 'em all!

  • B-Real (cleaned up discography, added infobox, can someone expand it who's more familiar with the subject?)
  • Bone Thugs-N-Harmony (almost all pictures are copyvio, plus tons of trivia, cleanups gets reverted or re-added)
  • Eazy-E (probable Image copyvio problem. See Talk:Eazy-E)

Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 17:58, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added an item to the list, but I'm not sure whether that's what you intended. Tim Ivorson 2006-08-04
Yeah that's it. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 11:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Best Selling Rap Artist

I am wondering about an article on rap i beleive where it states that eminem is the best selling rap artist which is a contradiction to the tupac page which states that he is..wats rong here help needed im new to all this —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Molie mo (talk • contribs).

YouNewb

Many articles about rappers now end with a list of semi-relevant YouTube links. I can't tell whether Wikipedia:External links#Links normally to be avoided prohibits such links. I'd welcome opinions. Tim Ivorson 2006-08-04

I'd think it's something to avoid. The problem here, at least as far as music videos go, isn't the Links normally to be avoided section, it's the Occasionally acceptable links section--most of these YouTube links go to copyrighted material. As that article says, "Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States.... Also, linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on us." As much as I love the material on YouTube, I have to admit that 99% of it is probably someone else's copyrighted work. I don't have a problem getting myself involved in that mess, but I'd rather avoid getting Wikipedia involved. -- H·G (words/works) 03:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Good point, H·G. I think I'll remove some links on that basis. Tim Ivorson 2006-08-08
  • Fair play, i thought video links were a good idea but i admittedly hadn't considered getting Wiki involved in copyright wrangles, will regretfully remove the link to Poetic's hilarious "God Made Me Funky" vid. nice section header, by the way W guice 13:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

What to do with these albums?

Please take a bit time and have a look. Lajbi Holla @ meWho's the boss? 11:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Brownside AfD

The article on west-coast Latino rap group Brownside is up for deletion. I'm not too familiar with the group, and I felt other hip-hop-heads, especially those more familiar with the group, may want to weigh in for or against deleting the article. -- H·G (words/works) 07:16, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


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