Wikipedia talk:WikiProject World Rally

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents 1 Welcome! 2 Flops in rallying 3 Improvements? 4 WRC results layout 5 Rename proposal for season articles 6 Need for a WikiProject: Motorsport? 7 Current work 8 Markku Alen Photo 9 Wikipedia Day Awards 10 Drivers' wins tables 10.1 Concensus? 11 Rally reports. 12 Changes in Templates

[edit] Welcome!

Welcome to WikiProject World Rally, feel free to make a comment while we grow! Wrcmills 15:19, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Great job. It was about time there was a WikiProject about rallying. I've been meaning to create WikiProject Rallying, but I think this will work very well. Prolog 15:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flops in rallying

I have added three Gr B cars which was suggested by a friend, feel free to add more even if they are not Gr B and feel free to remove them if they are not failures. You will find it here. Willirennen 18.12 26 November 2006

I guess Metro 6R4 and RS200 were indeed flops, although both have a legendary status nowadays. Outside of Group B, Peugeot 307 WRC might be a worthy addition, considering its nicknames, the success of its predecessor and Grönholm's "I hate this car" comment in public. I can't find any source listing rallying flops, though.Prolog 20:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

That's one of the worst pages I think I've seen on Wikipedia. Unencyclopedic POV original research like that ought to be purged from the servers. --DeLarge 16:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

As an addendum, how are they flops? Both of them were very late intros to Group B, and both were victims of circumstances after Toivonen's death forced the abandonment of the class before development could be completed. Both also scored podium finishes in their debut year (the RS200 in Sweden, the 6R4 in Britain), and both also went on to illustrious subsequent careers in Rallycross, which demonstrated their underlying soundness. "Flop" is an incredbly strong word in these circumstances.

[edit] Improvements?

I'd probably agree with User:Prolog that a "Rallying" WikiProject would be better, as currently it sounds like we only cover the current WRC stuff (i.e. post Group A). There's plenty of stuff in the sport outside of the WRC which needs improving, e.g. SCCA/Rally America, and a lot of the historic stuff lies outside the confines of the world rally championship, e.g. London-Sydney Marathon. Might be better to create an overall Rallying Wikiproject, and this can be a subset of it if the current members here have no interest in non-WRC articles.

Also, with regards to the driver infoboxes, I think there's a couple of things need editing:

1. I'm not nuts on the necessity for two different infoboxes unless we're discussing living/dead drivers. Unlike F1, which I suspect these boxes were modelled on, it's very easy for ex works-drivers to continue to participate in individual events long after their peak years are over. Therefore, I think having a "last race" or "last win" box is questionable until we know they'll never win another.
2. Active drivers move around and have multiple co-drivers, so the "co-driver" and "team" section should be pluralised for both, in my opinion.

In all honesty, I think a single box would cover both classes of driver, and where he/she is still alive the "last race/last win" and "date of death" sections can be left blank. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DeLarge (talk • contribs) 14:02, November 28, 2006.

And the moment I think we should concentrate on WRC personally because it is a broad subject when you think about it and maybe rename the project when we have completed a good amount of articles but then again when you talk about recruiting members it changes my mind... I'll think about it. Wrcmills 16:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Common infobox which meets each circumstane should be the way to go, wikipedia has far too many infoboxes to chose from already so one the meet all needs should be the way to go. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 16:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I did indeed model the infoboxes after the F1 ones. I don't see the "last race" as a big problem, because it doesn't need to be the last race. But I can agree to a merge, and I'll try to see what I can come up with. I definitely agree about the co-drivers and teams. Prolog 18:31, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I suppose there is a balance to strike between attracting more members to this project and taking on too much workload. I agree with Wrcmills about the scope of the WRC. Perhaps the project could be expanded when we're a little further down the line. Adrian M. H. 19:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

The two infoboxes are now merged in {{WRC driver}}. Co-driver parameter is gone, team is in plural form and first/last race/win are all optional. If you can improve the template, please do so, since modifying it will be much harder when the template is transcluded in many articles. Prolog 12:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WRC results layout

An anonymous user jumped in today and changed the layout of the 1992 and 2006 WRC results pages, saying they "simplify and improve visual appeance of tables, especially on wide displays". Now, as I'd already mentioned in another discussion, 60% of the internet still uses 1024x768, and there's no more use larger displays than still use 800x600 (see here and here), so I don't think that's necessarily a good motivation for changes.

Also, the other 32 years of results were left alone, so I reverted back to a consistent style. However, User:Andrwsc has subsequently reverted back to the "new" way, so I'm throwing it open to the project as to which looks better. Before I tidy anything. One way or the other, let's get all the pages looking the same though.

For the record, I preferred the original layout, as the multiple tables on each page were of the same width and because the tables looked consistent across the years, even though the number of events changed annually. --DeLarge 20:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

The tables definitely need to be consistent in the layout. On 1024*768, both look fine and on 1280*1024, the old layout might be a bit too wide, but I still think it allows the user to locate information more quickly. Prolog 21:12, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I should comment, especially since I'm mentioned here. I noticed that change in a scan of anon edits, and I agreed with it. Table formatting is a personal pet peeve of mine, I guess. I see so many instances where people don't understand table formatting or don't consider how they will be rendered on other screen sizes. Why create something that looks terrible to 20% of the readers out there when you can make something that looks good for 100% of them?

Anyway, things that caught me eye with that edit and why I reverted back:

1. The table headings made sense. "Events" is inappropriate and confusing as the column header for the list of manufacturers and list of drivers. The change to put it above the list of event flag icons made perfect sense.
2. Even at XGA size, I think there was too much unnecessary whitespace after the manufacturer name or the driver name. It looked ugly in my eyes, even at that resolution
3. The old version had some head-scratching markup code. Why was "colspan=1" on every line? Why was the header redundantly bolded when the wiki table header does that already? What was "width=1%" supposed to accomplish? etc. It just looked like the anon editor knew how to clean up some poorly written table code.

I've made a slight adjustment to World Rally Championship 2006 results to put a bit of whitespace back in, and make the two tables the same size in a way that works well with multiple display sizes and with multiple broswer font sizes. If this project agrees, then I would be happy to make the same changes on the other 32 pages. Andrwsc 00:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the updated layout looks good and the headings make more sense now. Hopefully the table will look good also on seasons like 1974, which had much fewer rallies. Now that we're doing some changes, I propose all instances of "Manufacturers Championship Points" to be changed to "Manufacturers' Championship points" and "World Rally Car Championship Points" to "Drivers' Championship points", for better description and to fix unnecessary capitalization. Some articles already seem to be like this. Prolog 08:15, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

<reset indent> Tables look a lot better now that they actually line up, i.e. the individual event columns are directly aligned in both tables, which was one of my biggest objections. I'd still like to see the columns widened a bit more - I think the tables should be a consistent size throughout the various years, and I'd want available space for a driver/team with an unusually long name to be accommodated without line wrapping. --DeLarge 10:35, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

One more very small thing... is it just me, or does anyone else find it unintuitive to have each season's calendar of events after the points tables? --DeLarge 11:02, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

It would probably make more sense to have the events section first, but I had never paid any attention to it. I previewed by cut-pasting the event results above the points section now, and it looked fine to me. In case we will have season summaries later on, the event results should probably be first. Prolog 16:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Now that you have all sucked me into this WikiProject ;), let me offer some additional suggestions:

1. I agree that the events section ought to go first. It is the only place on the page where the name and location of each event is given, and in the points tables, the event is identified merely with a flag icon only. Not very intuitive. I would not only move the event section first, but also add a column ("Location" or "Host nation" perhaps) with the flag and full name of the nation. That would provide context for the points tables that would then follow.
2. I agree that the headings need to be fixed with respect to WP:MOSCL guidelines. I would go a step further. The blue title bar in those tables is visual cruft, in my opinion. Better to use a second level heading instead. Therefore, under the "Points" sections (perhaps renamed to something more descriptive, like "Season standings"??) there would be two sub-sections - "Manufacturers' championship" and "Drivers' championship" (unless "championship" should be capitalized because it is a title - I'm unfamiliar with this subject).
3. Each page needs a much better introduction. Even a rudimentary sentence like "These are the results of the 2006 season of the World Rally Championship" is better than the sentence fragment used now.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you need help with making these changes on all pages. Andrwsc 18:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Those are very good suggestions. "Location" column sounds useful, but I don't know if it fits in there? We might need to make the text smaller, as in 2006 Formula One season. I think "Championship" needs to be capitalized when using the full title; World Rally.... When only mentioning drivers' championship, WRC.com uses lowercase. All seasons definitely need better introduction and hopefully a season summary. I added a very short one, along with an image, to World Rally Championship 2006 results. Thanks for your suggestions. Prolog 10:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

<indent reset>Ive added a test page to my userspace at User:DeLarge/WRC season, moved the table of events to above the points tables. and renamed the headings. There's still a bit of work to be done, but once the "template" layout's established we can go about applying it to other pages, as well as creating the missing/content-free years. --DeLarge 13:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I would still prefer some changes:

1. Use of next level section headings instead of the blue table headings
2. Consistent use of "Event" row in both points tables
3. Same width for "Manufacturer" and "Driver" columns (whether that be 15em or 20em, but not more than that)
4. Something more than just the flag to indicate the rally event in the points tables. I like the approach taken on the F1 pages, where they use the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 country code wikilinked to the event article. It's still not 100% obvious, but the wikilink is a vast improvement than nothing at all.

I have mocked this up at User:Andrwsc/WRC season for comments. Andrwsc 19:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Good work. I made a minor change aligning the country codes vertically, as in the Formula One tables. Unless someone can figure out more improvements, this should probably be copied to Wikipedia:WikiProject World Rally/WRC season or similar, and given the "official" style guideline status of the project. Prolog 22:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Before it is cast as "official", might I suggest another change I'd like to see. I think the podium columns would look better with three columns instead of two, such as:

Round	Rally name	Podium finishers
		Rank	Driver	Car	Time
1	74ème Rallye Automobile Monte-Carlo (January 20-22)	1	Marcus Grönholm	Ford Focus RS WRC 06	4:11:43.9
		2	Sébastien Loeb	Citroën Xsara	4:12:45.7
		3	Toni Gardemeister	Peugeot 307	4:13:07.0

I think this has a cleaner appearance and avoids the extra space wasted by duplicating the list numbers. I think the times look better lined up also. It looks like more work to implement, with more specification of row & column spans, alignment, etc. but it should be easy to use the first instance of this table as a "cookie cutter" for all years. Andrwsc 23:11, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It looks better there, but when used in a long table the problem is that it is hard to tell the positions apart, and thus see whether driver won rally C or was third in rally B. See example. It would need some kind of colour coding. Prolog 23:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, good point. I'm not a big fan of color coding, as per Wikipedia:Accessibility. The only other thing I can think of at the moment is to put a "separator row" between each event, as I have added to your sandbox. Is that enough? Andrwsc 23:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Another possibility is to alternate rows with different shades of color (different from how I interpreted your statement of 'color coding', but maybe this is what you had in mind) such as found on tables like on Basketball at the Summer Olympics. Andrwsc 23:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

That was indeed what I had in my mind, though not as "colorful" colors as on the basketball tables. But I think the separator rows fix the problem. Prolog 00:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Would this work for event tables? It uses the small font, as the Formula One tables, but otherwise it would be pretty impossible to fit the Round and Location sections in it. Prolog 14:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the flag in front of the rally name is probably a good compromise to having a "Location" column. That matches the F1 table style. Also, for some reason {{flagicon}} works better with nation names in full (e.g. "Monaco") instead of the country code ("MON"), as the flag version you get is the bordered one. Andrwsc 19:54, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Since there's been no recent activity on this issue, can I assume that this layout is acceptable to everyone? I'll probably try to create the missing years over the next few days, and I'd rather not start until I know the layout's set in stone. Also, I'll probably create new articles first, then repair the old ones, if anyone's wondering. --DeLarge 20:48, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Adrian M. H. 21:01, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Seems like everyone favours the changes and the new layout. I'll probably create one using your upcoming article as basis then. Prolog 23:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I would like to propose one minor change to the format of the results table, and that is to add a break after the flag. This help prevent some unnecessary wrapping of the event name, and there is plenty of vertical space to do it cleanly: Josh 15:41, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Round	Rally name	Podium finishers
		Rank	Driver	Car	Time
1	74ème Rallye Automobile Monte-Carlo (January 20-22)	1	Marcus Grönholm	Ford Focus RS WRC 06	4:11:43.9
		2	Sébastien Loeb	Citroën Xsara	4:12:45.7
		3	Toni Gardemeister	Peugeot 307	4:13:07.0

I think the flag looks a bit "lonely" on its own line, especially when flags are followed by driver names in the "Podium finishers" section on the right. But other than this, you're OK with the updated layout (narrower table width, smaller font size, no more headings on a blue background color)? Prolog 16:15, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rename proposal for season articles

World Rally Championship YEAR results --> YEAR World Rally Championship season

I feel the current name is a bit "difficult" and unencyclopedic in a way that it invites only result tables without, say, a short summary about what actually happened during the season. The naming convention I'm proposing matches the syntax used by Formula One, DTM and A1 Grand Prix, and is used by WRC.com. Prolog 21:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree - I certainly think the original title is unwieldy and I've never liked it (although I followed what was already there). Will be a pain in the ass to fix, but if you're volunteering to do the donkey work I'm amenable. Following the primary source and the other motorsport articles seems sensible too, so I won't bother trying to offer any alternatives. --DeLarge 21:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree; it seems a logical suggestion and probably worth the effort. Adrian M. H. 19:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

All season articles have been moved now, except for the empty tables created by a few users. I prodded some of those, because there is no actual content. Prolog 18:30, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Saw all this after the change had taken place - It now means that the pages are out of naming convention with the template and the summary page and also none (ok some!) of the links have been fixed to point direct. Not the way such a change should take place. More effort could be going into such changes and ideally into adding the information about the results, particularly in the missing years. Just to penny worth! :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 11:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There were no responses here for five days, and no opposes at all, so I went ahead with the changes. Which pages are referring to? Which template? I "fixed" the wikilinks on {{World Rally Championship results}}, but generally, valid redirects should not be changed. See Wikipedia:Redirect#Don't fix links to redirects that aren't broken. If there are some inconsistencies, these can be solved with the move function. Prolog 12:20, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, I changed the wikilinks on World Rally Championship results so that the piped links now point straight to the page (I'm aware of the "don't fix redirects" suggestion, but since I was making edits anyway it makes no difference to the server load). I'll also move the actual page to World Rally Championship seasons, or whatever the appropriate form should be, if that's OK. Also, the {{World Rally Championship}} has a couple of links which could be adjusted to point directly to a page, but I don't see any major hassles with the renaming.

I'll try and get round to dealing with the blank years over the next few days, as I finally have time off before Xmas. The previous pages I created took 2-3 hours to copy/paste and populate the tables, so I simply didn't have time to tackle them (especially when I was subsequently forced to repeatedly revert date adjustments by User:SndrAndrss).

Since we're still getting the exact layout set in stone, as with the above discussions, it shouldn't really matter if the prodded pages are deleted since we'll be starting again from scratch anyway. With that in mind, I'm going to copy the 2006 page to my userspace and create a template that people can tweak. --DeLarge 13:10, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

World Rally Championship seasons makes sense. The season list should probably be turned into some kind of table with additional information of each season. Prolog 13:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Need for a WikiProject: Motorsport?

Do we need a WikiProject Motorsport for collaboration on topics that affect all motorsport articles? I came across Wikipedia:WikiProject_Rugby - the purpose of which is to "maintain its children Wikiprojects: Rugby league and Rugby union as well as recognising, organising and improving the common areas between the codes." Now we have a lot more Motorsport WikiProjects covered than two and I sometimes think stuff such as the UK country discussion on the F1 Wikiproject applies across several others. I'm posting this on the F1, WRC, NASCAR, American Open Wheel Racing, A1GP and IROC to get people's opinions. Your comments are welcome! Alexj2002 21:08, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget, there's WikiProject British Motorsport as well. It might be a good idea to have something that ties them together - it might generate an increase in collaboration (and membership). Adrian M. H. 21:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current work

I'm just curious what were all up to about the WikiProject at the moment! Wrcmills 19:42, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Not much, I must admit! I've been concentrating on two of the other motorsport projects recently. A Kris Meeke article is in the pipeline - I just need a bit more research material. Adrian M. H. 21:36, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Just started a page for Bruno Thiry. Needs a little work, can anyone help? scancoaches 21:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks good. I made a few minor changes and added the infobox. Prolog 22:37, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Prolog, looks better, still need a bit more I feel, maybe when I find the time!scancoaches 16:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Just completed Freddy Loix. Any comments or suggestions? scancoaches 21:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Good work. Before reading the article, I couldn't remember much about him except for the fact that he was Mäkinen's teammate at Mitsubishi. I changed all instances of "Freddy" to "Loix", as using the last name is usually more encyclopedic. Prolog 23:12, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Markku Alen Photo

So yea, I got a photo of this guy Markku Alen for his page (after seeing the To-Do List) It doesn't really look right (lol) I'm kind of a noob at this. If you go to Markku Alén's Page you will see what I mean. Just lookin' for someone to fix it for me. Thanks. ~Blake D. Hawkins 02:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to the project and thanks for checking the to-do list. The image you uploaded was speedily deleted because the use of it was allowed only for non-commercial purposes. You can see a list of available copyright tags here and don't forget to mention the source when uploading. For more, see Wikipedia:Image use policy. Prolog 05:32, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank's for clearing that up for me; as I said, I'm new here. //Blake D. Hawkins 21:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:30, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drivers' wins tables

Is the wins table on Marcus Grönholm's page considered to be the accepted standard? Most winning drivers don't have this (having an unattractive list instead, or nothing at all). If the Gronholm table style meets with general approval, I'll make a start on updating a few of the more popular articles. It could perhaps be improved with flags for each event, although it currently matches the titles table better without them. Adrian M. H. 20:56, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd definitely use the flagicon instead of a second column for the country, since it looks very superfluous most of the time (i.e. Telstra Rally Australia, Australia). Ditch that, and maybe the "round" column in favor of expanding the year column to include a fuller date? Also, add a column for the co-driver? I don't know about Grönholm, but most of the top drivers have had different navigators over the years (Mäkinen, McRae, Kankkunen). Guys like Derek Ringer have their own articles too, so it wouldn't be an entirely non-linked column either.

Number	Date	Season	Event	Co-driver	Car
1	February 11–13	2000	49th International Swedish Rally	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC
2	July 14–16	2000	30th Rally New Zealand	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC
3	August 18–20	2000	50th Neste Rally Finland	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC

How 'bout that? The layout's a bit simpler too, no complications with background colours and the like. Any alternatives? --DeLarge 22:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a very good step in the right direction. You're right about using flagicons to replace the country names, and a co-driver column is so obviously a useful addition that I'm surprised I didn't think of it myself! The only changes that I would suggest are: put the event before the date and keep the current light blue style under the headings (it seems to fit somehow). Adrian M. H. 23:09, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I like this. I'm not a big fan of tables with alternating colors per line - they can be difficult to maintain. The only suggestion I'd make is to put the Season column in front of the Date column, as it is more important. Actually, perhaps the Date column is redundant on these tables, as the dates would be included on both the wikilinked season articles and specific rally articles. Andrwsc 23:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I would have: # - event - date - season - co-driver - car, in that order. The date may have some relevance to place the data in the context of a driver's career (more so with fewer wins), but I wouldn't bother applying links to it (it would look cleaner without them). Adrian M. H. 23:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

#	Event	Date	Season	Co-driver	Car
1	49th International Swedish Rally	11-13 February	2000	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC
2	30th Rally New Zealand	14-16 July	2000	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC

Something like that? Adrian M. H. 23:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I wikilinked the dates so that user preferences would be applied to them (i.e. it looks like "August 18" to me, but "18/8" to others, and "8/18" to Americans). The date is, however, definitely the least important column, and assuming that one day we manage to get all the individual rally articles up to scratch, they should include the dates. I'm with User:Andrwsc though about colour; I just like class="wikitable" and be done with it. So, as before but without the date column... --DeLarge 23:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Number	Season	Event	Co-driver	Car
1	2000	49th International Swedish Rally	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC
2	2000	30th Rally New Zealand	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC
3	2000	50th Neste Rally Finland	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC

or

Number	Event	Season	Co-driver	Car
1	49th International Swedish Rally	2000	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC
2	30th Rally New Zealand	2000	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC
3	50th Neste Rally Finland	2000	Timo Rautiainen	Peugeot 206 WRC

Yeah, either of those look good to me. As for the table colors, I strongly agree that the "wikitable" class is perfectly suitable. I think Wikipedia is much stronger with visual consistency across articles. It's distracting when different editors adopt their own personal favorite styles for their own additions. Andrwsc 00:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The new table layout looks good and is definitely an improvement. I stole the tables on Marcus Grönholm from the French Wikipedia article and didn't bother modifying them much, nor did I think we would later come up with a standard. Of the above examples, I slightly prefer the latter one as it somehow looks more natural to me. Prolog 07:05, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The second order is better (year after event, not before). I don't mind either style; my reasons for suggesting the blue style were simply that it was already there; I'm not sure how many articles currently use it; and it may previously have been chosen as the accepted style for the rally driver articles. The blue seems to fit, and matches the infobox colour. But I don't really mind either way. Re: date preferences - my preferences (English layout) aren't being applied to your linked dates for some reason. I see "11 February-13", which looks very odd. I would expect "11-13 February". Adrian M. H. 15:48, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concensus?

Did we come to a conclusion about which table layout to use? DeLarge's second layout? Adrian M. H. 12:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

No-one is opposing that layout, so it seems to be the way to go. Prolog 12:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

That's what I thought, but I didn't want to waste effort using the wrong table. Thanks. Adrian M. H. 12:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rally reports.

Would anyone object to me starting in making Rally Reports for each rally, in a similar way that the F1 project create? --Barberio 16:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Naming for each report article would be to use the formal name for the individual rally. So the first one will be 55ème Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo --Barberio 16:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be great to have reports similar to F1. The formal name makes sense, but it can also create some problems, such as making it hard to find a certain year's rally report while browsing a category. I would prefer having the year first in the title, as it's similar to F1 and seems to be common use in media. Either way, there should at least be redirects at 2007 Monte Carlo Rally et cetera. I noticed a typo on 2007 World Rally Championship season, so the first article would be 75ème... Prolog 17:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I've been meaning to start on these, but have been pushed back to due to lack of time. I hope to start on 2006 ones sometime next week Wrcmills 17:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Some initial work done on 75ème Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo --Barberio 19:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm really rather new to following the WRC, so someone giving a hand with finding the drivers full names, nationalities and their cars would be a big help. --Barberio 23:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

The layout looks very good. I have a few suggestions though. Results for top-40 seems a bit too much. Wouldn't the first 20 finishers be enough? I also propose replacing "Penalties" (this is usually 0:00 and can be mentioned as a note below) with "Car" field. Should we also make a race report infobox? Prolog 23:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Good ideas, be bold and make the changes.

I'm currently trying to work out a quicker way for me to generate a table of the stage results which might make producing the pages quicker for me. Once I can populate a database with all the various driver information. --Barberio 00:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, I put together a bit different layout, with different table fields, for the main result section. It's added to 75ème Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo now. Prolog 00:14, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The "Stage times" section might be a bit unnecessary and create problems (table width) with some rallies that have almost 30 stages. In the 70's and 80's, there were even 60-70 sometimes. Prolog 01:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't really see how the stage times section will work. Is it just the first person to lead after the first stage and then their times are but down or something else. Im a tad confused Wrcmills 09:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I was going to put all the drivers times in, but that looks to be a hugely over complicated task. --Barberio 16:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we're really getting there now on a model of what can be used for the future Rally Reports. --Barberio 16:51, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Rally reports should probably use the full self titled name, and a redirect from "2005 Foo Rally". --Barberio 20:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Is anyone going to do an WRC event infobox? It would just make the reports look a whole lot better! Wrcmills 07:40, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy to - I've been working on a lot of infoboxes lately. Just let me know what fields you would like to see and I'll put it together. Adrian M. H. 12:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Changes in Templates

Hi, I'm currently making some changes over on the WikiProject Motorsport Assessment Page. Look in the statistics section. Only 240 articles have the template WikiProject Motorsport on it. I'm thererfore going to propose something (I think this has been discussed a while back). Can every single Motorsport article have the template on it's talk page. My reasoning for this is that some drivers have only the Formula One template on the article. However, surely (by the way, this goes for virtually all articles), they haven't got to Formula One someway. They haven't just been thrown into F1, I don't think any drivers done that. They've gone through other forms of Motorsport. Therefore, surely the Wikipedia Motorsport template is needed for every single Motorsport article?. I'm going to do a vote on this (on this page, plus the Motorsport project and all the child projects) so we can get a decision on this. By the way, don't bother voting on different projects, as only one of your votes will count! Davnel03 16:53, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• Agree

• Disagree

• Leave Comments Here