Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/Archive1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

Contents

[edit] Userbox

I created {{User WPWA}}. It is functional but desperately needs attention from someone with a sense of style. As it stands I'm not even willing to put it on my own user page! Hesperian 10:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to M Johnson, we now have an alternative, {{User WikiProject Western Australia}}. With all due respect to MJ, we still don't have a user box that I'm willing to display on my user page. Where is the Wikipedia:Style Council when you need it?! Hesperian 23:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I like the idea of the map. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fred.e (talk • contribs) 13:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Article assessments

I think its inevitable that this WikiProject will be involved in article assessments. I've been involved in projects that run "their own" article assessment, and I've been involved in projects that piggyback on their parent WikiProjects for article assessment (e.g. WikiProject Australia) Personally, I very much prefer the former. What does everyone else think? Hesperian 11:14, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I like both ideas, but... what I'd really like to see is what we initially proposed early on and hasn't occured yet. A parent project that assesses and sub-categorises assessments overall (Australia-wide) and per child projects (project wide). I'll make a note to speak with the bot author's about our needs tomorrow when I get some time. If I recall correctly User:Golden Wattle made up an example table at the time but I don't remember where I saw it. Splitting the WA content off into it's own assesment group at this stage will only lower the overall WikiProject Australia assessment stats, or create two sets of assessments if we make use of both the WP:AUS template and a new WP:WA template on talk pages. I'll expand more on this tomorrow when I'm more alert :) -- Longhair\talk 11:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
My concern with the piggybacking approach is the rating of "importance" against a wider WikiProject's scope. If we had let WP:AUSTRALIA handle the article assessments for WP:BANKSIA, the article importance ratings would all be low, low, low. Admittedly that is not likely to be such a problem for this project. Hesperian 11:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I hear what you're saying, and somewhat agree. But I'm concerned that down the track, when every Australian state or territory has a WikiProject and performs their own assessments, the value of WP:AUS assessments will be zero. I've got a plan ahead, I just don't think I'm going to be in a position to provide the necessary code to get it working as I'd like to see. I can surely help spec it out though if you're keen to hear more.
Here's the table I was referring to by Wattle: User:AYArktos/sandbox/stats_table_mockup.--Longhair\talk 11:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I strongly concur with Longhair on this. I've long hoped to see all child project templates subsumed into an all-singing, all-dancing {{WP Australia}} (that is, a banner which can cater for every contingency). At present, there are four child projects which conduct assessments outside {{WP Australia}}: Geelong, Adelaide, Crimes and Banksia. This practise serves only to proliferate project banners on talk pages (a persistent point of concern at WP:COUNCIL, among other places), and likely dilutes WP:AUS statistics though exclusion. {{WP Australia}} can be utilised for the task anyways – I'm fairly certain {{WP India}} allows for dual assessment already.--cj | talk 20:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
FWIW, I've already merged the WikiProject Geelong assessments into WP:AUS and am in the process of doing the same with WikiProject Australian crime. I'll look into what India is doing, thanks. -- Longhair\talk 20:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
So that leaves Banksia. Adelaide assessments never really started; they were mistakingly initiated by a user unaware of {{WP Australia}}, which had only been set up a couple days or so earlier. --cj | talk 22:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Some valid points here; I concede the argument with respect to this project. Hesperian 22:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
(offtopic) As an initial response re WP:BANKSIA, I have updated {{WP Banksia}} to use the Australia assessment categories too. Articles tagged as X-Class Banksia articles are categorised into the X-Class Australia articles category; articles tagged as Top-importance Banksia articles are categorised as Mid-importance Australia articles; and articles tagged as High-, Mid- or Low-importance Banksia articles are categorised as Low-importance Australia articles. For an example see Talk:Banksia baueri. I'm reluctant to go any further that this in the absence of a fully-fledged dual assessment system, as I think small, well-defined projects like WP:BANKSIA have more need of, and make better use of, article assessments than great big projects like WP:AUS. i.e. with gazillions of articles, WP:AUS can only follow progress via broad statistics, whereas WP:BANKSIA can individually plot the progress of each of our 118 articles. Hesperian 22:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Hesperian makes a good point at my talk page. We're aiming from the top down in relation to assessments, when we should be aiming from the bottom up. More prominence is given to WP:AUS on the project template, than the project covering the article subject itself. The only problem with this 'bottom up' approach I see is we don't yet know where the bottom is, ie, WikiProjects are always expanding into new areas. I'm forced to rethink my approach to assessments now... it's time for a detailed look into the future so any changes we make now are scalable. -- Longhair\talk 02:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't have thought not yet knowing where the bottom is would be a problem. Rolling out a new subproject would merely require replacing
{{WP Australia | class = Bonza | importance = Nah}}
by
{{WP Tasmania | class = Bonza | importance = Sorta | aus-importance = Nah}}
Hesperian 02:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Differentiating between the two.

Before joining the project, I am interested to know how articles relating to this wikiproject and the WikiProject Perth will differentiate. Will there be criteria to follow to make sure people do not confuse the two? Is anything place/area outside the metropolitan area of Perth considered a part of this wikiproject? Thanks, --Ali K 12:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Broome, Western Australia surely wouldn't fall under the Perth WikiProject? I'm not sure how far the Perth metro area extends, but I'd hazard a guess to say anything lying outside of it would fall within this project's scope. -- Longhair\talk 12:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
hehe thats where the fun starts - there are scattered debates on various talk pages about this issue. Laying down the law now so theres no times wasting issues on this - Perth is the metro area of Perth local government areas (although some of them have parts outside the metro area) .

The answer to Ali K's question - all Perth project articles must be based on things in Perth metro area (as defined) andything 'outside' must default to wa project maybe - unless there can be susbtantial parts of an article that relate to a Perth metro area issue place or Person. Any border issues need to be ascertained - the weather is too muggy for lengthy debate about what constitutes Perth - we've been through it before... SatuSuro 12:25, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I would say that anything relating to solely the Perth metropolitan area, or any sub-unit of the above, falls under WP:PERTH - that's uncontroversial as that already is the case. With regards to people and entities that relate to all of Western Australia but are primarily based in or from Perth is something we'll probably need to discuss (esp with regard to history sections where people wandered all over the place with no respect whatsoever for the MRS that had not yet been designed :). Orderinchaos78 12:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Somebody has already defined Perth as the 'child' of WP:WA. I believe a focus on cross ref and expansion of WA topics across many fields and disciplines can be coordinated u/ this umbrella. Some idle thoughts and blather on subjects
  • Wadjela definitions of place and name are a small part of the big picture almost entirely missing from Wikipedia.
  • Some people still define themselves as from Fremantle Western Australia. Certainly , country people would not identify Perth as their birthplace.
  • Roads are not the only connections in wikipedia. Transperth supplies up to date timetables. We have avoided some of the more difficult topics it would seem!?
  • 'Perth' articles probably relate strongly to WP:WA while the reverse is not usually so. This can better coordinated from here.
  • Whadjuk history is largely 'unavailable' whereas nyungar and other aboriginal history is. Would like to see it incorporated, not sectioned off or addressed in the first para only. Our country, our history.
  • Perth has historically distanced itself from adjoining suburbs, even Northbridge, so it can mean CBD or greater metro to different readers.
Fred.e 16:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
With regards to your third point (re roads/Transperth) I'm not sure what you mean exactly? (I am interested, as it's something I can probably help with) Orderinchaos78 02:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
This may sound totally silly but hey just spent last 8 hours sitting(driving) in a bus(no aircond) but instead of defining this project scope in relation to perth should we just presume that any subject/person/event that somehow is west of the SA/NT border is part of this project and more specific projects then can choose what articles they support, aka perth choose what it thinks is a perth article if they overlap whats the problem. Gnangarra 07:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Well said; spot on. Hesperian 10:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Towns, LGAs and suburbs of non-Perth metropolitan areas

Not sure whether these belong under the new project, or under Australian Places. Should we have a section for such entities in this project? Things that fall into this category are:

  • Towns in Western Australia
  • Local Government Areas of Western Australia
  • Suburbs of Bunbury
  • Suburbs of Albany

Orderinchaos78 12:41, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

These belong under both WikiProjects. Oerhaps we should look at creating subpages for different aspects, e.g. /Places, to list available categories, templates, lists, relevant policies, resources, etc. Hesperian 22:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Support convenient subpage for above, which often reference each other, at Project and Category. Then 'People' which are great starting points for intra linking articles about art, culture, society, history, science, et cetera. (Please don't change West Perth, it is perfect.) Fred.e 10:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Creating a portal

Should we create a portal for the new project. There is more than enough information on Wikipedia to warrant the creation. Hossen27 00:49, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Hey, lets just walk first, some of us arent even crawling with it yet. There might be the info - but we have the occasional structural issues to sort out with those the other side of the Nullabor - also portals - to work well need a large number to naturally keep things rolling -many portals just die.. Better a project up and running after sorting through the issues of the project alone - ...SatuSuro 01:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
It might be worthwhile figuring out what we need to achieve before a portal becomes viable. For example, how many "quality articles" (FA or GA) do we need to have before we can introduce an "article of the week/month" section? Hesperian 01:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
As I mentioned to SatuSuro a day or so ago, lets walk before we run (to borrow his terminology :-). If we get this WikiProject up and running nicely, other states and territories can then use the WA WikiProject as a model to follow. -- Longhair\talk 01:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
My experience with the Indonesia portal (or non experience) is that its not worth exploring until we have sorted through all articles relative to wa that exist. When thats done and theyre assessed, that will be worth putting our flag up and trying for a portal then.SatuSuro
I'm open to the idea of portals for the states (I've even tested one for South Australia somewhere in my userspace), but agree with those above that this a tad bit down the track. Focus really needs to be on developing a structure for the project itself.--cj | talk 02:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wiki-mateship (an observation)

One thing I admire about you WA blokes (apologies to any sheilas here :) is your close bond, your high communication rate, and apparent real life wiki-friendships which you carry over into real life. Other states just don't seem to have that kind of collaborative and inspiring effect happening, ie, most us us only interact when we step into each others' areas of expertise and need to clarify matters via talk pages. Perhaps this is why WA has become the first state to fly the WikiProject flag? Another reason I guess is that us easterners are a little more spread out. You guys are all somewhat local to each other I assume? -- Longhair\talk 01:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to be able to attribute it to clean air and good surf, but I think this comes down to the unremarkable fact that we have one (in particular, maybe others too) editor who is constantly watching the big picture, working the talk pages, introducing people to each other, and generally functioning as the social glue that ensures we work together, rather than just working alongside each other. Hesperian 02:24, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
C'mon. Name names :) Their efforts bringing you all together is amazing. (I think I can say who). -- Longhair\talk 02:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'd agree with this comment. Although we probably need to organise meetups like the Adelaide, Melbourne and Brisbane guys have :) Orderinchaos78 02:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drudgery

Anyone interested in getting on with the real stuff or sorting through articles - and establishing some policies and rules on that? SatuSuro 02:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

What categories should we start looking in? I'm happy to help with finding and sorting stuff. Orderinchaos78 06:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
From Category:Western Australia and thereafter down the category tree. -- Longhair\talk 07:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Replying to myself here to add another point, the What links here feature is sometimes useful to locate articles that aren't yet categorised under the relevant categories. Worth exploring also. -- Longhair\talk 07:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Well - anyone up on how we can utilise the WP Australia box to have a west australian tag inside that? We need to start on that.... at least - was well as making a general west australian project category...SatuSuro 07:05, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
I'll add the WP:AUS template parameter later tonight if nobody else has by then. Meanwhile I'm giving this bottom up approach some more thought... -- Longhair\talk 07:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks any help is appreciated for those of us (?) bracing at the bit to put a wa stamp on things - I think the more important thinkers in on this project are probably celebrating the krikit win... :) SatuSuro 07:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
User:Orderinchaos78 has already activated {{WP Australia|WA=yes}}, so that works for now to at very least categorise your WA related articles into it's own relevant WikiProject Western Australia category. -- Longhair\talk 07:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I've cleared out Towns in Western Australia, Suburbs of Bunbury, Suburbs of Albany and Local Government Areas of Western Australia, and added WA numerous unrelated article talk pages on the way. If anyone wants a challenge - bays, headlands, national parks need to be done :) Off to bed for me. Orderinchaos78 16:29, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Western Australia

I just tag the article with WA=yes, but noticed this has been rated as "start" class, I think its more a "B" class article either way this should be targeted/focused on/collaborative efforted whatever you want to call it and get it to at least A class. I think FA and front page in June should also be possible. Gnangarra 08:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The Western Australia article certainly needs another iconic image or two. Speaking from somebody that's never been there, the article should take us there. I agree with the upgrade from Start to B however. Some required images that spring to mind are the Pilbara area, and the Nullarbor. -- Longhair\talk 08:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Nullabor is in South Australia so I think you probbaly mean the Eucla region. Gnangarra 08:34, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Correct. Areas west of the Nullarbor. WA has a lot more to expose than it's capital, Perth, which is what I'm getting at. -- Longhair\talk 08:39, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
The Western Australia article is the logical place to start, the article does need some pretty major improvements to get it to FA, including the images (as above) and more foot noteing.Hossen27 08:41, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Hummock grassland
Hummock grassland
This is perhaps a good time for me to plug my Triodia hummock grassland image; after all, about a third of W.A. looks like this. Hesperian 10:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Great picture. What season was that? How about a image of the day to inspire the project crew. Fred.e 13:10, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

June '96, IIRC. Hesperian 10:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Nice work! I've never actually been north or east within the state, hope to have money to do so for winter 2008 (I'm studying all next year) Orderinchaos78 09:33, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Woodside Petroleum

Can someone with more knowledge than me of these matters have a look at this article? For an article about a WA primary industries company there seems to be an awful lot about some comparatively minor incident in Mauritania Orderinchaos78 14:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Gn seems to have fixed this. Still pretty slight. Ah! Shall we call a section "Stubbies" short, embarrassing and hopefully on the way out! Fred.e 16:57, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Attended to this article again today. Fred 09:43, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Electoral articles

Whilst adding wa=yes to the electorial district articles I nopticed that this or similar The seat in 2009 is expected to be retained by the Liberal Party. speculation is mentioned in the articles. As its speculation of public opinion in 2/3 years time should it be sourced or removed. Obviously if a retired premier wishes to provide me with campaign contributions and a telephone in case further consultations are needed I quite happily pretend I didnt notice these statements. Gnangarra 14:52, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Good observation :) IMO speculation should be removed from all articles as there's no way it can be verified ESPECIALLY as only five seats (all in Mining and Pastoral) will be left untouched by the 2007 electoral review (the near-complete abolition of the weighted system), by which the number of Perth seats will grow and several country seats will be merged. Orderinchaos78 15:36, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, don't worry too much about the content. Most of them are either pretty sparse (with some glaring inaccuracies, or what I would call time-specific references which only apply to the seat's present form and are not suitable commentary for past borders) or are plagiarised from Antony Green (I work by the principle that even acknowledging the source on Wiki doesn't get one around copyright - an original article needs to be written for all 57 present electorates plus numerous past ones that have existed. I'm working on histories for those for an off-Wiki project so can incorporate my work here). I'll get around to rewriting them all when I've gotten my suburb elaboration project completed and sorted out which format of politics box is best for the suburbs (see Template talk:Australian Politics Suburb for worked examples of the two different formats I've been mulling over) Orderinchaos78 17:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commons cat?

Wikimedia Commons has media related to:

Should we create a commons cat for shared images belonging to this project? Orderinchaos78 16:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I think that would be useful. I'm still learning about that stuff and assume other novice editors would benefit. Fred.e 16:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Same actually, I'm a commons newbie. :) Orderinchaos78 17:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
There already is a commons cat for Western Australia. Gnangarra 07:16, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Ah cool - didn't know! That's great news - so we can link that to the project front page when we get it all sorted Orderinchaos78 09:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I've added the link to the commons category here. I have done a bit of reorganising lately to get it back to one page. Nachoman-au 02:22, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stubbies

If someone creates these, they second the motion to start articles and I will contribute. Add yr own or move to front page. Fred.e 10:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

  • North West shelf coud get hot on talk pages!
  • Government Architect NSW Gov arch coud be assimilated.

[edit] Missing Premier articles

Frank Wise and Ross McLarty are the two glaring ommisions from {{WesternAustraliaPremiers}}. Someone here may wish to create new articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.164.240.69 (talk) 12:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Photo wish list

Swan River Colony land allocation
Swan River Colony land allocation

. For those that have missed previous notices. I'm spending the school holidays wandering around the Perth metro area if you have an desired images add them to the list at User:Gnangarra/Photo wish list, Today Maylands was the area, more uploads tonight. Gnangarra 09:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

An addendum to the above - I'm going to be spending two days (tomorrow and Friday) in Mandurah-Pinjarra area, so if anyone wants anything let me know (I've already noted Moondyne's three requests). Mostly I'll be snapping the suburbs for suburb articles, and I'm trying to think if there's any notable monuments or memorials or anything else down there I should grab. I'll be doing some more outer northern photography on Saturday. (Somehow I don't see a "list of water towers in Perth" article emerging - it would be rather dry - pardon the terrible pun) Orderinchaos78 09:45, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Per the previous section, we need an article on Ross McLarty. The tourist centre in Pinjarra has preserved Ross's parliamentary office. Might be worth a snap. Hesperian 10:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Will check it out. Orderinchaos78 12:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
There also the site of Battle of Pinjarra about 5ks south of the town near a historical house, think its opened by National Trust on South west highway. Gnangarra 13:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC) Second this. Fred.e

[edit] Wikipedia: WikiProject Victoria

On behalf of us at the WA project I have welcomed and wished luck to the Victoria project - I am sure we all wish them well! SatuSuro 13:53, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I knocked up a stub for them that linked widely ‎Royal Historical Society of Victoria (awaiting update). A small gesture that may get WP:WA attention, one way or another. Fred.e talk

[edit] See also

[edit] Another idea for article devlpmnt

Colonial avenue: English Heritage
Colonial avenue: English Heritage

Heritage refers to something which is inherited from one's ancestors. It has several different senses, including:

  • Cultural heritage, a nation's historic monuments, museum collections, etc.
  • Natural heritage, a nation's fauna and flora, natural resources, and landscape
  • Tradition, customs and practices inherited from ancestors

Substituting state for nation, of course! Themes like this could be a good way to develop high value links between articles. A new Heading? Fred 14:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 20:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current status of state projects

We now have another state project up and running - so its:-

Wikipedia:WikiProject Tasmania
Wikipedia:WikiProject Victoria
Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia

SatuSuro 02:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow - the front page is coming along well! I like the images and maps. Orderinchaos78 05:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WA Project Meetup

The template is in - its now a process of trying to come to agreement where and when is most convenient for those daring to meet face to face those strange names... SatuSuro 18:01, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transwikis

Should our project be looking at articles on Western Australian subjects on other Wikipedias (at least, the ones we can read, anyway)? I just saw the articles for Perth and Western Australia on the Simple English wikipedia, one is, shall we say, a bit deficient while the other seems decent (although is only a lead sentence and history section) but has no referencing whatsoever, and looks to have been written by a very patriotic Hesperian (not our one). Orderinchaos78 09:35, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

support simple.en is still developing and this project can help boost a worthy sister wiki. Fred 16:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting looking at which Wikis are most popular (primarily by number of articles) - English is WAY out in front, then German, French, Polish, Japanese and Dutch. Spanish is 10th, Chinese 12th, Indonesian 22nd, while all the nordic languages and Esperanto are in the Top 20. Comically, Romanian (21st) feature article of the day is Lenin, and one of the other Eastern Bloc ones was Brezhnev. :) There's a Māori one with 442 articles - gave me the idea we could have a Nyungar one someday Orderinchaos78 13:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"support' simple.en looks good! SatuSuro 13:07, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

John Howard is a pretty funny read. I've noticed a strongly pro-Liberal bias in many of the simple.en articles, probably due to a lack of contributors. Orderinchaos78 04:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
hmm I might try and fix that one! DanielT5 05:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
i fixed it, everyone seems happy :) DanielT5 12:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WA frog photos

The frogs of Australia are well represented with photos in respect to most of Australia's fauna, with 35% represented with photos. However, a majority of these are from the eastern states, especially NSW, Vic and Tasmania. Western Australia has the lowest number of frog species with photos. Could everyone in WA with a camera be on the lookout for your local frogs, and upload them if it is a species we don't have, or you can't identify. Have a look through the new WA frog category to see if you can match your frog to any already there so we don't get a bunch of Motorbike Frogs to identify.

The three species I would really love photos of are the Turtle Frog (Myobatrachus gouldi), the Sandhill Frog (Arenophryne rotunda) and the Western Spotted Frog (Heleioporus albopunctatus). Thanks --liquidGhoul 12:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Can't find our elusive Banjo Frog, but I got a real cute one of a motorbike frog today. Orderinchaos78 15:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
If they are like their relatives in eastern Australia, they are pretty much impossible to find when they are calling. Go out on a wet night, and some may be walking around looking for some food. Thanks. --liquidGhoul 10:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The West Australian (newspaper)

I've raised a proposal to fix this article (link), which is in a sad state. I think this should be one of our project's tasks, considering it is our state's premier newspaper (for better or worse). If you have any ideas or thoughts on what should be in this article, feel free to raise comment. Orderinchaos78 03:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hey I am keen to do what I can, I didnt even know this one existed I thought there was only Perth. how do I sign up?? DanielT5 05:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Daniel. There's no formal requirements - just look for anything that needs improving or look at some of our tasks that need doing on the main page. Glad to see another country Western Australian on - ironically most of the country article improvement drives have been coming from here in Perth. See also Wikipedia:Countering systemic bias if curious. Orderinchaos78 06:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article Improvement Drive

I think this would be a good idea, I saw it on a few other projects and also here and talked to Orderinchaos78 about it who thought it was worthwhile too. I suppose what you guys are doing with the West Australian is kind of the first one but should we make it a regular thing after that maybe? DanielT5 13:07, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wagerup

[1] - The edit seems very POV (pro-Alcoa) to me but being quite close to the article (I wrote the original wording three months ago), I'd rather someone else make the call on what to do with it. A back trace of the user's IP [2] suggests it may be an Alcoa employee. This is the only article they've edited apart from changing "town" to "city" (correctly) on the Transwa Australind article. Edits on this IP months ago were probably an unrelated user. Orderinchaos78 10:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I reverted its significant but there is a need for a citation to support the claims of residents intending to fight the expansion in court. Gnangarra 10:26, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah I noticed that one too - not entirely sure why I skipped that one as I do have a ref for it! Will check it to make sure it's still valid then whack it in. Orderinchaos78 10:27, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorted. :) Will have to check Yarloop, Cookernup and Hamel now to see if that non-cite appears elsewhere. Orderinchaos78 10:41, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
One very big absence inthe Darling Scarp article is a good outline of the extensive anti Alcoa movement (No mining in Jarrah Forests - SWFDF and CSNF) in the years before they managed to get underway - unfortunately I have lost contact with a guy who has been through all the arhival material about that era and those groups that was part of his PhD  :( SatuSuro 14:20, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
It wouldn't be lurking around whatever uni he did his PhD at? At Curtin and Murdoch, for example, they have HEAPS of unpublished theses on the shelves or available by request. Orderinchaos78 14:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Argh

Got a bit of a problem. SFD log - someone has nominated Template:Perth-road-stub and Category:Perth, Western Australia road stubs for deletion. Problem is, all the usual road editors are seemingly off on holidays :/ Seems like we hop from one deletion debate to the next. Anyone got any ideas? Orderinchaos78 14:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Meet up

Proposed date, time and location has been suggested at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/WA Meetup#Proposed date/time location Gnangarra 12:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Cousin project

Just had to do a cross-tag between Indonesia and New Zealand - and very impressed by the Wikipedia:WikiProject New Zealand project page - well worth a look! There are a couple of items we might take example from SatuSuro 14:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Had the same thought regarding Canadian regional projects. They had a 'clickable' map image for all these. Fred 15:11, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Should make a list of the best features we see elsewhere and then try and incorporate them if we can. Orderinchaos78 16:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Birthday

Happy one-month birthday
to WikiProject Western Australia!

Just occurred to me that the day had clicked over. I am amazed how much we have achieved in such a short time, it's a testament to all the great people here. Orderinchaos78 16:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Road stub

As a handy byproduct of the stub sorting debate (see debate here) we now have a road stub category for all of WA, located at {{WesternAustralia-road-stub}}. Orderinchaos78 15:36, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I reverted the bot edit to our page and added strike through. Amalas is not a participant of our project and the sudden absence might confuse some. Fred 16:44, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Good point - hadn't noticed that one! I can't believe I'm still up. I can't believe that I just spent an hour fixing up SmartRider, either. One wonders why a ticket type by a public transport authority in one city requires an entire article. :| Most of the Transperth articles demonstrate in full colour exactly why we have WP:CRYSTAL. Orderinchaos78 17:58, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Left a few comments with 'them'. Good going btw. Sleep well. All is quiet now. Fred
Road articles come back and bite us again - seems that two competing standards have emerged for junctions. The original one was simply to note the suburb(s) in which the junctions occurred, while the other notes the destination of the road with which the junction occurs. I think both are potentially useful, but not sure how to resolve this one. Orderinchaos78 13:08, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
oh yay we saved it! I was so worried about that, sorry I went offline without announcement but I was in perth arranging accommodation and going to rural access days and stuff :| will be more active over the weekend! DanielT5 12:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wagerup and Alcoa

The edits [3] [4] to Wagerup, Western Australia from the Alcoa IP address was mentioned in a lengthy piece in todays West Inside Cover column. Nachoman-au 11:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Which gave some misinformation about Wikipedia and more or less hams up on reversions(not even a reasonable edit war) - and the west cannot even cite their own sourcs for international stories - some great example! SatuSuro 11:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah finally got it. I was surprised the story was so big! I do think it amusing that the first question from the PR person was who their tip source was - got to catch 'em all! (sorry Pokémon) Orderinchaos78 14:40, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I've seriously given up reading that rag! But I guess I'll have to go out tomorrow and find a copy :( —Moondyne 14:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Interestingly inside cover rarely does followups on its own stuff... virtually impossible to 'have a go' at them.. SatuSuro 10:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I coud not resist and bought it today. I wonder who their source is? They may do a followup on Woodside or similar cases. Then again ... Fred 10:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
hey I read that one and thought of you guys when I was on the bus yesterday :) Nice to know the West are onto this sort of thing, bet you there are other companies doing this all over Wikipedia as we speak... strange thing is I got into a convo with someone and they seemed to think this was quite expected for companies to be allowed to modify their own articles on wikipedia, I gave up trying to explain it to them :( DanielT5 12:56, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Try random article searching for a few hours on end and see how many vanity, advertisement, and blatant crazy pages you can find per hour... It makes one reversion on wagerup lool like a beatup! SatuSuro 13:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bias towards Eastern States

I was watching the SBS News tonight and they said the funniest and most stupid thing, apparently Western Australia has just passed South Australia in population. We had better change all article to reflect this, oh wait they already show this because it happened about 15 years ago (the story might be repeated at 9:30 if you want to have a look). Anther perfect example of lack of research and knowledge in the media. But it also got me thinking could we have an article on the bias in Australia towards the Eastern States, I cant count the number of times I have watched a show such as the 7:30 Report and politicians have listed states for some reason or another and always seem to stop at VIC, NSW and QLD. Any thoughts Hossen27 12:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if bias is quite the same as rivalry (but I'm sure there's a loose relationship there), but there was an entertaining discussion on that at WP:AWNB ages ago (here), which resulted in an article Australian regional rivalries. —Moondyne 15:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I think they haven't forgiven us yet for overtaking Adelaide, however they're still hatching their evil plans to take over our companies and businesses, force us to watch NRL, sell our children into slavery and impose permanent daylight saving on us. (Reads best if you put a slightly evil, menacing tone into each "they" or "their") (Note that "they" is never defined, as all Eastern States are exactly the same) Orderinchaos78 15:38, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Anyone with good knpowledge of wa history should know what it is that we need a good section or article on internal regional rivalries in western australia - forrest's era to now.... SatuSuro 13:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
what about pre forrest, role out the revolutionaries secession is in the wind.....Gnangarra 15:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
dont forget King George Sound the foothold of eastern staters in 1827, Gnangarra 15:06, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geology

Howdy sandgropers! I'm a geologist currently working and living in WA. Aside from the usual struggle against vandals and whatnot, and general geology related problems, I've been steadily adding to WA related geology articles, such as;

I'll be trying to keep the ball rolling, but its a lot of work, but if you need anything spruced up or a geology related opinion on something in the WA project, drop a hoi on my talk page. Cheers, Rolinator 13:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Welcome - the whole australian project has so few geols on the job - you are welcome - and thanks for letting us know what youve been up to! Hope you enjoy your stay SatuSuro 13:39, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Check out these amazing articles! Fred 13:45, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Good on ya, Rolinator. Could I suggest a laypersons explanation of the geological reasons for why the Stirlings and Porongorups are there? Thanks. Callophylla 09:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] xxx, Perth

An editor has just ran into the railway station xxxx. Perth naming system - and started converting only to find the whole metro area station names have this moniker ( even the freo one which reads weird to say the least) - after the rather awkard re-name from a sock (which bothers me that such can happen) regarding all Perth arts - the issue that arises - what do we do with a whole heap of Perth railway stations? Are they in Perth? Western Australia? or are they stand alone unless the need to disambiguate occcurs? I eagerly await responses SatuSuro 13:29, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

My opinion is
  1. Disambiguate only when necessary
  2. Preferred disambiguation is "(Western Australia)"
Hesperian 23:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - but we have almost all the railway stations with the Perth moniker - should we continue the removal? viz -- Fremantle railway station, Perth to Fremantle railway station ? BTW Wikipedia talk:Places of local interest has an interesting take on railway station articles :( SatuSuro 00:25, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd normally agree with Hesperian but for the fact this seems to be standard right across Australia, even if it is an odd system, e.g:
New Zealand ones (albeit fewer of them) are "x Train Station" eg Westfield Train Station
Canada ones use x Station (eg Port Moody Station) or disambig thus (eg Pacific Central Station (Vancouver))
US have yet another system (eg Delray Beach (Amtrak station)) - always disambig. They just change "Amtrak" to whatever network the station is on (eg PATH for New York)
UK use "station" or "railway station" with alarming inconsistency, with disambig after the name if necessary - eg Rainham (Kent) railway station, Clapham Junction railway station.
So there doesn't appear to be an *international* standard - more like each country has their own Orderinchaos78 00:38, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
If there was a perceived need for a standard would probably need to go to WP:Trains - like the battles over railroad and railway - maybe somewhere in the Trains Portal a table would be the way to go - bit like the gauge variations all over the world...

But in the end - maybe we need to decide which precedent we follow in WA as there are quite a few existing and potential station articles to establish the convention for...SatuSuro 01:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I say drop the disambiguation and keep as "xxx railway station" as per normal Australian usage. Just because its been done elsewhere (inconsistently) doesn't make it right. Unless someone can point to a discussion and consensus I'll be moving them all (WA ones anyway). I'm not in a great hurry though. —Moondyne 08:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Support - might even fumble around and help! SatuSuro 08:58, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I've got no opinion either way on what it should be. The actual naming of the articles is immaterial so long as it's clear that it's an article for a railway station and there's no problems with disambiguation (i.e. no two the same) Orderinchaos78 10:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
Irrespective of the merits of either format (disambiguated or not, comma or parenthetical), I think that there should be consistency across Australian cities. In other words, there should be no whole scale change to WA stations without equivalent action to interstate stations.--cj | talk 21:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quality

Haha oh dear, my liddle map of Hamersley is today's picture :) Makes up for having my power knocked out for two hours. It could be worse - most of the Wheatbelt has been out all late afternoon and evening and Mandurah and the western suburbs have been all over the place all day. Western Power and heat don't seem to be terribly compatible. Pity there wasn't a non-OR way to do a Major service disruptions in Western Australia article, starting with mid-May 1994 when most of Perth and the southwest lost power for 5 days. Orderinchaos78 13:18, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe a simple NPOV list, without commentary? :-) Tenterden fire, Feb 04 shutdown, pole fires every time it rains in summer, average brownouts per thunderstorm... (;-) Callophylla 09:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
the Western Power article could have a para on supply difficulties :) Gnangarra 10:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I have heard the comment we are one of the few places to put our power in the air and phone under the ground. The crackle of power poles is part of perth's soundscape, not that I will miss it.Fred 14:58, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
The May 1994 disruption was instrumental in SECWA becoming Western Power later that year, I might try and find some stuff on that subject next week when I'm back in the Battye. Ironic that one of the reasons for the Hamersley Scheme was to put power under the ground, and the powers-that-be (mainly the SEC and the Town Planning Board) effectively blocked it. The confusing situation means that one tiny area of Greenwood north of Blackall Drive does have underground power, while the entire rest of the district does not. Orderinchaos78 15:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Silly sports question

What do you call an unenclosed grassed oval laid out for AFL with night lights around it? It's probably something *very* obvious but it is not coming to me right now. Orderinchaos78 14:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

reserve comes to mind aka Ashfield reserve, normally the UBD/Streetsmart/shire have names for ovals of this size anyway. Gnangarra 15:24, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Convict fence in the Canning River

Does anyone have any information on the background of the so called "Convict fence" in the Canning River between Salter Point and Mumms Point, Shelley? I haven't been able to find anything firm. Local folklore when I was a kid in those parts was that it was built by convicts and used to assist with the floating of logs downstream from the mills in Kalamunda. I have no idea on the truth of this and would love to find out. —Moondyne 14:08, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

answered with a ref on Moondynes talk page SatuSuro 14:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Fred Carden's book, Along the Canning details some of it.[1] and so does McQueen in her 1963 thesis [2] and the City of Canning heritage inventory [3] and Hutchison and Davidson book on the convict fence. [4] and I almost forgot LePage's book too. [5] Good Luck! petedavo 10:07, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

  1. ^ Carden, F.G. Along the Canning: A History of the City of Canning Western Australia, Covering its progress from Roads Board to Shire, to Town, to City City of Canning, 1st Edition 1968, 2nd edition, 1991,
  2. ^ McQueen, Jeanette 'Pioneers of the Canning District' thesis prepared for Graylands Teachers' College 1963, p.13.
  3. ^ Detail from 'Municipal Heritage Inventory', City of Canning.
  4. ^ Hutchison, D. and Davidson, D. 'The Convict Built "Fence" in the Canning River' Records of the Western Australian Museum Vol. 8 (1), 1979.
  5. ^ J.S.H. LePage Building A State: The Story of the Public Works Department of Western Australia 1829-1985 Water Authority of Western Australia, Leederville, 1986, pp.211-

[edit] Snow falls

Listening to the radio(6PR) the Perth BOM has a collection of all official and unofficial recordings of snow falls in WA, According to the interview Wongan Hills is the furtherest north town with official recordings of Snow, and Coolgardie is the furtherest East. The falls have been recorded from April thru to November, I done some scrounging through the BOM site but theres no online information. Given that snow falls are unusual for most places in WA the event will be covered by Newspapers, or mentioned in LGA records if you come across any please list them on Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia/Snow Falls in WA Gnangarra 10:27, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit late here but the site the interview was referring to was probably this one. Not snow-related, but the BoM has Weather hazards affecting the Perth region and Severe Thunderstorms in Western Australia. Graham87 07:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music Proposal

It seems when new users ( and red link users) find their favourite music/band not mentioned in the western australia, or perth western australia articles , they feel a great need to include it in the articles - consequently there is a regular change to the music sections in the mentioned articles - I am suggesting that in hidden text we have instructions to divert these enthusiasts to the music in wa article - any thoughts on this one? SatuSuro 23:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Haha I've been guilty of that one myself in my early Wiki days... doesn't sound like a bad suggestion to me, although to have any listed (especially if they're all older, or newer, or one style, or another) is practically inviting such edits. Orderinchaos78 10:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
There are some Perth music articles being consistently created in the background - but in most cases they are for a specific genre - this suggestion is across the board - whether punk, folk or even classical for that matter. SatuSuro 07:11, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Even more silly surf question

Anyone up on surf culture in the south west - have collected some info - and am contemplating some of the info pages on some web pages - but would be very interested if any west aust project members have the residual bleach in their hair, or wax between their toes to help iron out some ponderous information glitches between maps/ websites and surf break names - or any possible alternative info sources apart from the dreaded google first page - or the maps brought out by margaret river .com - I suspect a deafening silence but any clues would be appreciated...SatuSuro 14:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

This would be a very good article, I would be happy to give you a hand with it. The surf culture down here is very strong in many aspects of the community, but im sorry to say there is very little residual bleach in my hair, or wax between my toes I have surfed a few time and im awful. I could also get a comprehensive list of surf spots, not just the one listed on various sites and maps. Hossen27 00:02, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
I meant to mention the magazines like, er Tracks, was it?. Probably movies too for more unusable citations. It was an international (nomadic-romantic) culture so info may turn up from beyond our shores. Pretty sure the local names for bodies of water around beaches and reefs would be mentioned there. Fred 11:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
As far as I can ascertain there are no index/archives of surf culture magazines - unless its blindingly obvious and I've missed it. The info is on current tourist maps - and web sites - the problem is nomenclature/consistency - which is why I am happy that Hossen27 has responded. Some maps and lists are not clear on which side of Margaret River mouth is which break and so on. It simply needs extra checks against anyone in the know before creating an article. SatuSuro 07:09, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Hi I am currently organising a list of surf spots in the cape to cape region (hopefully with coordinates). There are quite a few that are not mentioned anywhere and really only known to locals, i'm a local and i don't know a lot of them, surfers are very protective of good surf spots. I will post the list in a day or so. Hossen27 07:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hamersley

Right - somewhat later than I'd hoped, I have finally got the first draft of the prose for Hamersley, Western Australia done (the pictures have largely been removed to the talk page until I can decide on appropriate placement once the prose is a good size). The initial comments coming back are that it is quite verbose - 50k with 69 references - the intention was to do more rather than less, then edit it down. Parts of it - especially the history - were written as short blocks, so may not flow or be in the wrong logical order. I'm not entirely happy with the prose in Demographics either, as it was necessary to keep comparing three or more different areas on the various statistics and got a bit tangled. Unfortunately I think I've got to the point where having written most of it, I am seeing what I was thinking, not what is actually there from an outsider point of view.

So if you see anything that could do with some snipping, reduction or rewriting, any obviously missing parts, etc, feel free to let me know on my talk page or that of the article. I'm hoping to be able to get it to second draft stage in a few days and then bring in a few of the other Australian editors before taking it to FAC. Orderinchaos78 16:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bibulmun Track

An article on the Bibulmun Track would be a good one here too. I cannot find it on wikipedia John D. Croft 13:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Redirect for common spelling mistake created. John, you are not alone. —Moondyne 13:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Government departments of Western Australia

Have we missed any? —Moondyne 15:58, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Landgate (fmly Dept of Land Information, fmly Dept of Lands and Surveys); Treasury and Finance (DTF); Energy (office or dept? not sure); Department of Planning and Infrastructure (DPI) (which absorbed Transport); Local Government and Regional Development (DLGRD); Premier and Cabinet (DPC); Office of Shared Services (OSS) (Very interesting and controversial one with lots of recent media coverage!) off the top of my head. Orderinchaos78 16:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
If we want the category to cover all the various government departments, agencies, authorities, etc, then there are rather a lot. Hesperian 23:01, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
It is very important to understand that the subsequent authorities that come under the umbrella of a department - as found in the government website - do confuse the average punter as to whether they constitute a department or whether they are bodies separate...
If anyone has a sense of masochistic self defeating enthusiasm (?) a table of departments with their earlier incarnations would be a world first (!) - state records office might have some solutions (see what we cited at Western Australian Government Railways re the earlier and later names) - it would seem some politicians or their yes persons must sit around waiting for the next opportunity to change a department or name.... SatuSuro 23:04, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
My question had meant to say: had we missed categorising any existing articles. Sorry to be unclear. But I think another sister category Category:Government agencies of Western Australia may be in order. My first preference would be to rename the existing to Category:Government departments and agencies of Western Australia (as a catch-all) but that would be inconsistent with other states as well as being difficult, as its a child of Category:Government departments of Western Australia. —Moondyne 23:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
I meant to say child of Category:Government departments of Australia. But I've now changed that as WA Govt Depts are not subordinate to Australian Govt Depts, as the previous categorisation seemed to imply. —Moondyne 01:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I had always thought of an agency as a different sort of animal to a department. Hesp's link above includes Main Roads and Police within the agency list. —Moondyne 23:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Which is the very important isue I was trying to make the average person dosnt always pick up the diffs between agencies and depts SatuSuro 23:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, what is the difference? I think its that a department has a chief executive that reports directly to the responsible minister. An authority has an elected or appointed board which reports to the minister, and the chief executive reports to that board. Agency is a non-specific term for both. Am I close? —Moondyne 23:27, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
And if so, is FESA a department? —Moondyne 23:30, 6 February 2007 (UTC) Forget all that - nonsense. —Moondyne 23:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry - without looking to see if they actually make the diff on one of their websites - i thought it was the legislation - i thought a dept had an enabling act - while authorities only needed govt gazetal - Im probably wrong... SatuSuro 23:33, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Report from the minefield, part 356. (subsection 5, clause 2) - we must avoid even worrying about authorities - we just need to keep it simple with departments (current only) - anyone want detailed explanation - I will gladly email an explanation in detail - for wikipedia purposes - lets keep it simple SatuSuro 00:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

However (part 357) :

  • Statutory Authorities - in almost all cases appear to require an enabling Act (and therefore the Parliamentary process involved with that)
  • Departments are usually created by the Governor In Council and by executive decision on advice from the then premier
  • However the status and position of government bodies within that framework is quite complicated - and there many complications occuring on this matter...and even government officers get it wrong.... :)
  • Consequently - for this reason I would not support Category:Government departments and agencies of Western Australia- it is clear which are departments on web sites and telepohne book lists etc - but the agencies are a minefiled best left out of the equation for the minute - or having a separate category (anything between 300 and 400 acccording to one source working in parliament house) SatuSuro 01:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, what is the status of FESA (for example)? Its currently categorised in Category:Government departments of Western Australia. I presume we move it to Category:Government of Western Australia. —Moondyne 01:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Very good point - there are some authorities that appear to be departments or vice versa at times - with a name 'authority' - yet in the current phone directory FESA is in the department list...SatuSuro 01:53, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


Government of Western Australia -- Government departments of Western Australia
            \\                                //                         ||
              Authorities of Western Australia                           || 
                                          \\                             ||
                                           Government agencies of Western Australia

My thought would be something like this in structure, each with a main article that cover the way in which these are created and define. Gnangarra 02:12, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear - having the full knowledge of the complications about authorities and agencies I simply couldnt accept that - its not how they exist in their complicated realities... SatuSuro 02:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I vote for Category:Agencies, authorities, boards, commissions, committees, councils, departments, offices, panels and trusts of the Government of Western Australia. Hesperian 23:24, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Good to see our highly esteemed local admin has his sense of humour with him this am - that would be enough to set the cat police in a murderous blind frenzy among the pigeons for the length of the title alone...

In reality it is very simple - (1) Govt depts (2) Agencies and all else - with known dept affiliations (3) Stand alone agencies - (ok someone is going to ask how to distinguish between 2 and 3, I can hear that) SatuSuro 23:43, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. And how to distinguish between 1 and 2 even, as I'm still not entirely sure. —Moondyne 23:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Current Perth Telephone Book - government departments ...page 31 - straightforward... :) SatuSuro 00:24, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Why not follow what's already been done at the federal level? That is, Cat:Government entities of Western Australia as a subcat of Cat:Government departments of Western Australia as equivalent to Cat:Government entities of Australia and Cat:Government departments of Australia. "Entities" covers all manner of executive bodies which are not departments.-cj | talk 23:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I like that - its consistent with the Federal structure and 'entities' is a good catchall phrase for anything that's not a department. Support —Moondyne 00:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Me too, except that it seems to me that a department is a government entity but not all entities are departments, so I don't know why the departments category isn't a subcat of the entities category, rather than the other way around. Hesperian 00:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
To go back to what the parliamentary expert said yesterday - the creation is the rub - governor in council creates the depts - and parliament does the rest.... the cats and relationships - departments have more clout than the entities - or agencies as the telephone book has - so departments are not the same level or status as the entities so it is an error to think of them at the same level - as they have different processes creating/enabling their existence. SatuSuro 01:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Karri forest photo request

Does anyone have an photo of Karri forest they would be prepared to upload? I need something to illustrate an article on Warren (biogeographic region) (currently an unfinished draft. Hesperian 10:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I should have a few - I took literally hundreds of photos in my last trip to Pemberton in April 05, and I think the Augusta area is also karri? Orderinchaos78 11:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Great! Thanks. Yes, Augusta is Karri. But even if it wasn't, I'd happily accept any decent photo of vegetation (as opposed to a single plant) within the region's boundaries. Hesperian 11:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Gawd surely there is a karri occurence map somewhere to prevent me giving you guys geographically challenged awards? THE boranup Karri forest- aka sand patch area is the best of the area - but there are still stands very close to augusta SatuSuro 11:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC) maybe try http://www.naturebase.net/content/view/906/1282/ for an idea SatuSuro 12:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Better still, http://florabase.calm.wa.gov.au/browse/map?f=273&level=s&id=5625. Hesperian 12:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
For the big picture maybe - is still prefer the bottom picture at the page mentioned earlier SatuSuro
I was out walking to a place called Hillview Lookout about 7km west of Augusta and took many shots on the way there and back. The flies were something incredible. Orderinchaos78 12:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Know it well - the views to the left at about 3 km is appropriate... - but also try around cape naturalise lighthouse on a still day - that is where the t-shirt with the logo 'relax in a state of excitement - a billion flies cannot be wrong' evolved I am sure - black backs... SatuSuro 12:08, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Check my flickr now - there should be 9 pics up. see one you want me to upload to commons, just give me the filename(s) (they're in a massive unsorted directory on my hard drive) Alternatively if none are suitable I have more. Orderinchaos78 12:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Sweet. I'll take IMG_3081 for the vegetation section. And IMG_3078 for the geology section, as a rough indication of "dissected, undulating topography". Thanks again. Hesperian 12:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Edit conflict lol Think 3081, 3078 and 3110 would be good for including in article of the area. Gnangarra 12:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
3081 3078 3110 uploaded to Commons. Orderinchaos78 13:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, now in use. Hesperian 23:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vital articles

I was thinking of converting the "Specific goals" section of the project page into a "Vital articles" section (or subpage), a la WP:VITAL. What do you think? Hesperian 01:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree - there are some articles that need to be developed to fit into it, other dont even exist yet SatuSuro 01:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Due to the myths about the solidity of the yilgarn block - the west australian earthquake article dosnt exist - just pathetic little mentions at meckering and cadoux - yet if this is an encyclopedia with enquirers about earthquakes like the shark bay one this morning - there's nothing to lead the enquirer to understanding the ubiquitousness (?) of earthquakes in western australian history - classic omission... SatuSuro 01:38, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I was thinking the same thing. Crikey, Category:Earthquakes in Australia has just one entry! Perhaps a List of Australian earthquakes is in order. This would be a start for someone. —Moondyne 02:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Cadoux and Meckering added. —Moondyne 04:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry H, we digress re the Vital WA articles. As a start, could we use the "I can't believe we don't have an article on...!" section on the project page? —Moondyne 02:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
- I agree with moondyne - that we start from within the project as is - there are substantial areas of knowledge that readers/enquirers would find black holes like earthquakes in wa - and so on - I do have a problem with people lists - just because the daily rubbish gives us a list of people they deem important - I would be tempted to go for larger broader themes - earthquakes - fires - droughts - floods - which affect whole communities - rather than indicidual ego driven politicians - for instance - maybe the living treasures people deserve writeups - but I have a problem with a large amount of the vital list as it is - I do believe that we could create a list of articles and yet to be done articles that are unique to our project rather than an idealistic framewrok from the culturally biased list at Vital - but then, I could always be wrong... :) SatuSuro 02:20, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't proposing a new project or subproject, merely a subpage to avoid taking up too much space on the main project page. My concept of "vital articles" wasn't "vital articles that don't exist and why bloody not?!!!"; it was more "vital articles that this project should strive to make not suck". Think of them as the WA articles that we would rate importance=top if we had a WA rating system. i.e. the list would contain both redlinks and bluelinks. Yes, many of the vital articles would be on broader themes. No, I wasn't suggesting we should follow WP:VITAL in our article selection; we would judge for ourselves what topics are vital to coverage of Western Australia. Of the articles on the "I can't believe it's not butter" list, I can only make a case for Rischbeith and Salvado, and perhaps not even them. Hesperian 02:34, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
List from the West's "100 Most Influential Western Australians", December 2006.
List from the West's "100 Most Influential Western Australians", December 2006.
The question is not so much who is on here that shouldn't be, more who isn't? BTW, the selection panel included Geoffrey Bolton, Jenny Gregory and Tom Stannage, so who am I to say they got it wrong? —Moondyne 03:05, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Moondyne Joe. :-( Hesperian 03:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
How was Joe influential (or vital)? His article is only currently rated 'mid' BTW. —Moondyne 05:46, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Ah, the first dispute; how exciting! He's about the closest thing we have to a folk hero, but I accept that that needn't push him over the line. Hesperian 05:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
It looks suspiciously like the brass slabs on st georges terrace type list - the 150th list plus a few newbies... SatuSuro 03:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
At least Fred's George is there - interestingly I would add dorothy hewett, gavin casey, henrietta drake brockman, before stanley - just shows what current notoriety does to latter - and i reckon battye before lukis- and I could go on... I would not have wanted to hear geoffrey jenny and tom sort through their eliminations - probably my olde school mate the lapsed editor had the casting vote :( SatuSuro 03:42, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mount Barker, WA

I've added substantial content to the Mount Barker, WA page. There's still work to do including formatting, linking and images but the basics are there. More content will be added soon - but It's 2am now so I'm off to bed :) --AndrewD MBarker 17:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regions of Western Australia

Back in '05 I created articles on each of the nine regions, titling them according to an utterly ridiculous naming convention, e.g. Wheatbelt region of Western Australia. Today I finally got around to moving them to new titles per convention: the article titles are now: Gascoyne (Western Australia), Goldfields-Esperance, Great Southern (Western Australia), Kimberley (Western Australia), Mid West (Western Australia), Peel (Western Australia), Pilbara, South West (Western Australia) and Wheatbelt (Western Australia). I have fixed all double redirects, but haven't tackled the single redirects or any link text, other than at regions of Western Australia. As you come across links to the old titles, you may like to correct them. Hesperian 23:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability and Great Walk...

Placed here and at the article talk page as well... The range of groups relative to environmental issues in western australia fromthe 1970s to the present is non-existent on wikipedia - and I have privately signalled to a number of other editors that articles that are needed - however this group is one of about up to 10 that are notable - but they all lack a good overview history (although there might be one completed phd at murdoch that might cover aspects of the issues) and also the groups themselves tend to hand over their records to the state ref library (battye) and few if any members ever have either the interest to write reviews of their decades or attempt to provide adequate summaried of activities within the western australian political and social context... the w.a. conservation council even has had a professional historian as an office bearer - but I am unaware of any of the groups being sufficiently resourced or reflexive of their place in wa society.... I'd only hope that it was otherwise - but knowing the rang of knowledge of most of fellow wa editors on their history of environmental issues here- I will not hold my breath waiting for someone to come up with any good seccondary sources that would give good overviews of the member groups of the wa conservation council over the last thirty years, sigh... SatuSuro 09:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Something on the Bibulmun Track would also be important. John D. Croft 13:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Bibbulmun Track SatuSuro 13:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, you have been warned - Conservation Council of Western Australia now exists... SatuSuro 14:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
Again - Campaign to Save Native Forests is now up as well SatuSuro 04:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mileura, and/or Mileura station

Next year there is a fair chance that approval will be given for this remote little place to house the US$1.6Bn Square Kilometre Array. This will be seriously HUGE. Hop to it. —Moondyne 03:46, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

That's what they said about LOFAR, until the Europeans announced at the very last minute that the cash they'd promised to kick in was conditional on it being built in radio-noisy Europe instead of radio-quiet WA. I'll believe it when I see it. Hesperian 04:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Your comments are noted. —Moondyne 04:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Good general remider about the List of Pastoral Leases still hanging precariously at the edge of C or was it D SatuSuro 04:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mark McGowan and related pages

Recently, some changes were made to Rockingham-area articles and an article created for Mark McGowan MLA. I would fix it up myself but full time uni will have my full time attention for the rest of the week, so thought I'd raise it here. Orderinchaos78 15:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Final call for Hamersley

Orderinchaos78 is about to put in the images and send it to FAC. I've done a bit of work on it today. if anyone can think of anything else and also review my images list on the talk page and see if it's excessive or not then we can put them on and list it - thanks! DanielT5 12:11, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Wish me luck! And thanks heaps to Hesperian, Gnangarra, Daniel and anyone else who helped get it where it is now. Orderinchaos78 14:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me be the first to congratulate you :) DanielT5 08:18, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
And it was well done from him., and well done from him- SatuSuro 08:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks guys :) I was prepared for the worst, I think it was a hell of a lot of preempting of issues on everyone's part that meant it got a fairly easy run. Now to find another one to work on... Orderinchaos78 08:41, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 78 Records

I see 78 Records was speedied today[5] despite passing AfD a few months ago... is this legit? Nachoman-au 11:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I have restored the article. Gnangarra 12:01, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Good call Grangarra. 78's is an important piece of the fabric and evolution of the WA music scene. Hopefully there's some music buffs out there who can add some more weight to the article. thewinchester 12:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Follow up -- I've notified both the nominator and the admin who deleted the article that I have restored it. Gnangarra 12:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Well done - it needs some companions to get through windter - anyone else for tricky perth items- anyone for a London Court article? SatuSuro 12:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/78 Records (2nd nomination) It has been nominated at AfD Gnangarra 05:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] South Lake, Atwell, Hope Valley

Anyone know any more about this area than I do? (i.e. next to nothing beyond where they are, postcode, etc) Orderinchaos78 17:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../w/i/k/Wikipedia_talk%7EWikiProject_Western_Australia_Archive1_8800.html"