Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Waldorf Project
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[edit] Past discussion has been archived at Wikipedia:WikiProject Waldorf Project-Archive
I posted this at Wonderactivist's talk page, but will post it here also. Cormaggio is learning 10:33, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok, so now we know where the WikiProject is based, the project's participants need to figure out what the best way(s) of managing the Waldorf-related articles is/are. But, while I am actually personally very interested in Steiner and Waldorf education, I unfortunately just don't have the time to arbitrate as an "unbiased" "knowledgeable person" :-). I think that's what a wikiproject is - an attempt to discuss issues relating to a specific subject and its representation on Wikipedia. From scanning the page, it looks like you're doing a good job so far - I would say, continue in the same vein, seeking consensus as you go. There is nothing wrong with having passionate views from different perspectives - these should be able to be merged into a coherent article under the guidance of WP:NPOV. Or, if there are significant debates about a particular issue, that can always fork into its own article (though, from my experience, care needs to be taken with such articles). So, I would simply say, again, all the best with your work. And when you're all "finished" with this, you could always start adding Waldorf-related material to Wikiversity. Cheers :-) Cormaggio is learning 10:30, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Fresh pages and proposals on the table
Hello, I want to first thank Cormaggio, Longhair, and Fergie for their ongoing assistance in this project. I have archived all past discussion up to Cormaggio's unbiased and inspiring comments above.
Currently, there are three proposals that I see on the table. To stay organized, I will keep all proposals on a special "proposal" page. This page will have its discussion which is directly related to the proposal. As each has passed, it will be archived and we'll move on to the next proposal page. The pace here is going to be very slow and I have to request that we stay focused on the topic. Personal attacks will not be tolerated on these pages. Personal conversations should take place on user pages.
This all sounds so very strict, however, this project will be unmanageable and doomed to failure if we do not keep the conversation in focus. So you'll see that these are related to the first proposal. I welcome comment to these ideas here. Wonderactivist 16:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Have invited admin opinion before proceeding
Before taking another step - even writing the project participants, I have invited comment from three Wikipedia administrators, here's the note below Wonderactivist 17:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Dear Longhair,Cormaggio, and Fergie, I know there's already been so much controversy surrounding it, but plan to proceed with the Waldorf project. Thank you all so much for your help so far.
I have organized the pages better, centering on the page Longhair set up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Waldorf Project and have a proposal on the table for how to proceed in a very focused, organized fashion. I truly believe that this is the only way the project can progress. I would like to invite your ideas and comments on the organizational structure, and the proposals, and anything else! Wonderactivist 17:47, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
- Just to say that I'm not an admin on Wikipedia - and also just repeat that I don't really have a lot to add to the structural form of this project at the moment. I'd say, just do it the wiki way - edit, discuss, and edit some more. This really doesn't strike me as the kind of issue that would spill into unnecessary conflict (though I may not have fully understood the discussion thus far) - and, actually, I think that a little conflict is a good thing if it can be harnessed towards helping us understand eachother along the way. So, really, you don't have to get approval for all of this - please just try to find a way of working together, achieving consensus and, hopefully, writing an excellent article, or set of articles :-). Cormaggio is learning 06:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
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- I am not an administrator of wikipedia either, although I take it as a great compliment that my behaviour has been deemed administratorly ;-) --Fergie 14:31, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
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- Ok, as the above comment will reveal, I hadn't actually read Talk:Waldorf education - until now (well, scanned and read). There is obviously some conflict, some of it based in the content of the article, but some of it interpersonal, it seems. Wikipedia has much experience in/of conflict and dispute resolution - if, for example, a request for comment doesn't work, there may be a need or desire to move to mediation. If this WikiProject can help with that process, that would be great - though, have all interested parties decided to work here? (I read one comment that indicated doubt about this WikiProject.) In any case, I think people need to (to rehash the cliché) take a deep breath, and try to listen to the other parties' perspectives, and work towards a common consensus ground. If people here can commit to doing that, and leave interpersonal differences aside, you will end up with an excellent article (which is, in my opinion, pretty good, and possibly only needing slight restructuring). If there are claims of the benefits of Waldorf education, these need to be cited (well) - and the same goes for criticisms. The rest should be pretty straightforward (again, in my naive opinion) - ie. the principles, practice and pedagogy of Waldorf education. But hey, you all know your stuff better than me, so I'll let you get on with it :-). Cormaggio is learning 11:03, 11 September 2006 (UTC) Crossposted to Talk:Waldorf education
Nothing personal, but I wonder if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fergie is an administrator too. Nothing about it at the user page. Again: nothing personal, just a question of fact. --Thebee 13:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- No. See Wikipedia:List_of_administrators. -- Longhair 14:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Oops! I stand thoroughly corrected. For the Waldorf project, I have actually sought out the opinions of one admin, one unbiased Wikipedian, and one involved, yet highly experienced and demonstrated-to-be-fair Wikipedian.
Cormaggio has made an excellent point: several of the ongoing editors of the Waldorf page have chosen not to take part in this project. It may be that mediation is a better choice. I am happy to spearhead a project, but just as happy to turn it over to mediators. Personally, I would just like for the edit wars to stop and for the page to be just a bit more stable. Wonderactivist 20:41, 11 September 2006 (UTC) (copying Fergie, Cormaggio, and Longhair)
- I have a feeling the edit wars will come to an end shortly, and personally would not suggest turning the project over to called in mediators. Good luck! --Thebee 21:02, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I have just sent the following message to all registered project participants and have again invited the editors on the Waldorf Talk page o join this project
[edit] Proposal at Waldorf Project
With advice from an admin, I have taken the next step in the Waldorf project and invite your opinions or alternative suggestions for a first formal proposal. In the face of the ongoing conflict it will be necessary to work especially hard toward NPOV and to establish groundrules before we can begin our real editing work. I invite you to be part of that process at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Waldorf_Project_Proposals Wonderactivist 14:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I have made some edits to the proposal and started a discussion page for it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Waldorf Project-Archive Proposed Starting Place. Hgilbert 01:55, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Point of view
Is this a valid point of view on Waldorf education? --Fasten 09:13, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I would say that the point of view is currently onew of the things our project is addressing. Please jopin the project if you would like to help. Thank you. Wonderactivist 13:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Update and Unlocking
OK folks, I have sent out the following note to all team members: Hello Waldorf Project Team Members, I just wanted to let you know that two proposals have passed on the Waldorf project and two more - one based on Fergie's starting place - have been set out for discussion here. Feedback has been given that the project has been going slow. I apologize as I has hand surgery a week ago, but truly nothing should wait for one person. If we each check in once or twice a week, we should be able to get through the article in a month or two. I would appreciate your valuable insights on the proposals and timing. Wonderactivist 12:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
In clicking around to user pages to send the note, I have seen that the edit wars are truly still raging - they just have moved from the Waldrof page to user pages. As a result, I do not advise speeding up this project - time will be well-spent hashing out the disagreements civilly, with the result being a better page for Wikipedia and its readers. The problem with this page, overall, has been each person's need to push their own agenda without taking time to consider other viewpoints. Please do not resume your edit wars on the page. Wonderactivist 12:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
- I was hoping the edit wars had ceased. Please don't start them again. Use the talk page for reaching consensus before editing the Waldorf education article itself. While I don't wish to enable protection again, it's easily done if the need presents itself. Anyone editing this article is welcome to contact me at my talk page if they feel edits are heading in the wrong direction. Thanks. -- Longhair\talk 12:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] On hold for now
As gfar as I can tell this project is on hold as mediation has been requested. Wonderactivist 23:01, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 21:25, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 23:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
