Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. Interstate Highways
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[edit] Template:3di
Template:3di (the 3di spur navboxes) may appear broken for a short time, as the changes to the template proposed and agreed on long ago are in the process of being implemented. Your patience is appreciated. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 22:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
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- OK, I think I got all of the 3di templates updated, so we should be good to go. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 02:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Goodbye
Hello Fellow Wikipedians!
I have enjoyed my time editing here on Wikipedia but I feel it is time to move on. I have done cleanup on some pages and other edits here but I feel it is time to start my own website for roads, I will post the link when it goes live. I have removed a chunck of articles from my watchlist and will begin to make a steady transition out. My subsequent edits will be more for matience and/or minor information changes. I have no hard feelings towards this project but I feel its time to move on. I am not leaving Wikipedia, just this project as it would not be appropriate for me to do this in addition to my future website. Thank you all for the wonderful time I had here! If there is anything you all want help with or want my opinion on, just let me know!
All the best!
Jgcarter 19:52, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
PS- You can help me out by using my website for citations!
[edit] Interstate 14 and Interstate 3
Would anyone have any objections to moving the article to "14th Amendment Highway"? Right from the FHWA [1], there's no future I-14 corridor designation yet, even here on that map. I think it would be better as 14th Amendment Highway for now. --MPD T / C 18:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Looking around some more, I-3 is in the same position as I-14. So also moving Interstate 3 to "Third Infantry Division Highway" could be in order, because neither of them have been designated as future Interstate corridors. --MPD T / C 18:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
It looks like I-14 is the common name: [2] [3] --NE2 18:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- To be fair though, of "Interstate 14" search, on the first page, only three of those are about the Interstate 14 we're referring to, two are about an already existing Interstate 14 in California which isn't correct, and the rest are about movie theatres (Regal Interstate 14) or mistakes (...interstate. 14...). On the second page, only three again are about Interstate 14. That's not to say how many of the articles are duplicates of other articles.
- Even so, I'm not saying it's not a common name (there's the "Stop I-3" group), I'm just saying it's speculative and not official. I don't mind leaving them as is; just a thought though that it would be a better name for the article because of the speculation all around on the numbering of the highway. --MPD T / C 18:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I know that, but "14th Amendment Highway" only gives three relevant results total, and one also uses "I-14". People are actually calling it I-14, not the "14th Amendment Highway". --NE2 18:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, keep the current titles, for consistency reasons as well. V60 VTalk · VDemolitions · VRoads 19:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think consistency is a valid reason, since these aren't Interstates. But "Interstate 14" is the name people are using. --NE2 19:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- That's what I was meaning. Obviously people aren't really referring to US 6 as "Grand Army of the Republic Highway" that much, and it's the same case with I-14 and 3. V60 VTalk · VDemolitions · VRoads 19:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I don't think consistency is a valid reason, since these aren't Interstates. But "Interstate 14" is the name people are using. --NE2 19:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yeah, keep the current titles, for consistency reasons as well. V60 VTalk · VDemolitions · VRoads 19:19, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I know that, but "14th Amendment Highway" only gives three relevant results total, and one also uses "I-14". People are actually calling it I-14, not the "14th Amendment Highway". --NE2 18:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
- I would prefer retaining the common names and having the other names you mention redirecting to the pages. --Mhking 21:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Interstate 238
This has been moved from Talk:Interstate 238.
Given this runs between a 580 and an 880, and was assigned 238 because CalTrans did not have space in the x80 range, and is generally considered to be anomalously numbered contrary to the usual rules, that logically would suggest its de facto parent would be I-80, no? Chris cheese whine 06:00, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- It doesn't have a parent defacto or otherwise. True 80 would have been its parent in a perfect world, but it's well documented from many sources [4][5][6][7][8] that it technically doesn't have an existing parent until an I-38 comes about. Gateman1997 01:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- Those are (in order), 404, 404, a personal home page, and 404. You can't argue that it doesn't have a parent purely based on its number. The statements from AASHTO and CalTrans suggest with very little doubt that it is part of the x80 family. Chris cheese whine 21:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- I've fixed the dead links. All 4 support my position on the matter. Also I'd like to see any evidence you have that says explicitly that AASHTO or Caltrans consider it a child of 80. I can find no such evidence. Gateman1997 08:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- I've also found this on the Caltrans site. [9]. You'll notice that Caltrans links to at least one site, AA Roads from link 1, that supports my view. Gateman1997 09:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- RTFA. Chris cheese whine 17:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- 238 is a family of its own. It is not related to I-80. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- A fine opinion, but what definitive source do you have to support this viewpoint. AASHTO and Caltrans are pretty definitive. -- KelleyCook 18:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- And the links are where? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 19:15, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- A fine opinion, but what definitive source do you have to support this viewpoint. AASHTO and Caltrans are pretty definitive. -- KelleyCook 18:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- The quotes in the article beg to differ. AASHTO > you. Chris cheese whine 18:21, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
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- I just re-read the above comments. AARoads is a site run by a couple of roadgeeks. Why are they apparently a greater authority than the memos from the California DOT and AASHTO on the page? Chris cheese whine 19:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- They wouldn't be if AASHTO and Caltrans actually had a position on the matter but I can't find any such position beyond AASHTO objecting to the numbering because it violates the numbering system (because 238 isn't a child of 80), and Caltrans not even acknowledging it being an interstate on many of their lists and still referring to it as SR 238 including its exit numbering on CAL NEXUS. However AARoads is provided as BY CALTRANS as a reliable source of information. I'd like to see this evidence you claim to have that AASHTO and Caltrans consider it a child of 80. Because the 238 article shows that the major objection AASHTO had to Caltrans numbering it that way was that 238 is NOT a child of 80, which is why they suggested it be numbered as an 80 child. Gateman1997 19:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- I just re-read the above comments. AARoads is a site run by a couple of roadgeeks. Why are they apparently a greater authority than the memos from the California DOT and AASHTO on the page? Chris cheese whine 19:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
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- 238 is a family of its own. It is not related to I-80. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 18:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- RTFA. Chris cheese whine 17:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- Those are (in order), 404, 404, a personal home page, and 404. You can't argue that it doesn't have a parent purely based on its number. The statements from AASHTO and CalTrans suggest with very little doubt that it is part of the x80 family. Chris cheese whine 21:33, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- (indent reset) To address your non-points:
- AASHTO objecting to the numbering because it violates the numbering system (because 238 isn't a child of 80). No, their objection actually suggests the exact opposite, that it is a child of 80 (hence them suggesting alternatives to give it an x80 designation).
- However AARoads is provided as BY CALTRANS as a reliable source of information. No, it is provided by a pair of road enthusiasts, and therefore not a reliable source of information.
- I'd like to see this evidence you claim to have that AASHTO and Caltrans consider it a child of 80. IT'S IN THE ARTICLE. AASHTO suggest an x80 numbering, therefore they believe it is an auxiliary to 80. CalTrans say "We'd like to, but can't", therefore evidently they also believed it to be an auxiliary to 80. Then there's the insignificant fact of its endpoints being on 580 and 880. All the reliable evidence points to it being part of the x80 family. Saying that it isn't purely on the basis of the number is like saying a woman is not related to her parents because she married and took her husband's name. It's utter nonsense. Chris cheese whine 19:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- All AASHTO implies there is that is SHOULD have been a child of 80. They objected to the numbering because by using 238 it isn't a child of 80 and thus violates the numbering scheme. Gateman1997 19:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- No, it implies that it IS a child of 80, and SHOULD have been numbered x80. Chris cheese whine 19:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- You're making a jump of logic that's just not there. They would not have objected if it were actually a child of 80. However because it isn't they objected. But if you have ANY evidence other then RTFA please provide it. I've given at least one Caltrans endorsed link that supports my view and 3 roadgeek ones that also do. Gateman1997 19:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- Your logic is flawed, and the wrong way around. They objected because the proposed number did not fit. They saw it as a child of 80, wanted it to have an x80 number, and suggested alternative solutions that would have given it an x80 number. It is logically impossible to reach your conclusion from the statement on this page. Chris cheese whine 20:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- You're making a jump of logic that's just not there. They would not have objected if it were actually a child of 80. However because it isn't they objected. But if you have ANY evidence other then RTFA please provide it. I've given at least one Caltrans endorsed link that supports my view and 3 roadgeek ones that also do. Gateman1997 19:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- No, it implies that it IS a child of 80, and SHOULD have been numbered x80. Chris cheese whine 19:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- All AASHTO implies there is that is SHOULD have been a child of 80. They objected to the numbering because by using 238 it isn't a child of 80 and thus violates the numbering scheme. Gateman1997 19:51, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
This is by far the worst thing I've seen since WP:SRNC. It's a poll started by one person, clearly originally written to support his views, and still being edited to support his views, with options being struck through despite his own rules: "Feel free to add alternative options, but do not remove any. There's faulty logic on both sides. One is trying to define I-238 as not a member of the I-80 family solely by its number – the sources being used to do so are somewhat questionable, but it is supported by AASHTO's numbering rules. The other side (which as the "poll" below shows is comprised of one person) is trying to define it as a member based solely on its termini, which is somewhat supported by AASHTO's quotes, but by this logic Interstate 287 would be a member of the I-95 family.
The article as it's written right now does not explicitly state that I-238 is not a member of the I-80 family. Anything added to the article stating that it is (or isn't) would need to be sourced (since it's obviously questionable). The claim that IT'S IN THE ARTICLE isn't enough; that would be an original research leap of faith. -- NORTH talk 22:05, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- Just to reiterate what I said above, this whole discussion is moot. Unless there's a source out there that explicitly states that I-238 is a child of I-80 – or a non-roadgeek site that says that it isn't – anything we derive here is going to be original research. It's the perfect example of Synthesis of published material serving to advance a position. On either side, look how many logical hoops we have to jump through to "prove" our case. (I use quotes because at this point I'm fairly sure neither side will be able to convince the other.) No good will come of this. -- NORTH talk 22:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Infoboxes for Interstate spurs and loops
See WT:USRD#Infoboxes for Interstate spurs and loops. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 21:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)