Wikipedia talk:WikiProject The Beatles/Archive 11

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Archive 11

Contents

Macca

It needs to be nominated for FA (or not...) andreasegde 18:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC) Hello? Is anyone there....? (sound of an annoyingly long echo...) Sir Sean de Garde 19:05, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The lights are on but nobody is at home. Poor old Macca... Mr Hornby 16:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Edit Summaries

I work on articles in depth, and I make changes that would take longer to explain than the time it takes to do it. Most editors make one small change, but I go through everything with a fine tooth-comb. I have been asked to leave a summary very often, but I get so involved I forget, or my itchy mouse-finger clicks before I know it (but usually to prevent edit conflicts).

Can anyone suggest a way around my problem? Would it be possible to add something like, "Trusted Beatles' editor" to my user name? It would ease the pain of answering comments about my lack of edit summaries from other well-meaning editors. I am "caught between a rock and a hard place", as they say. andreasegde 03:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Nah, I've worked it out... andreasegde 14:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Lennon or The Beatles?

I have been working on the Lennon article, but I am toying with the idea of finishing it and then going on to The Fabs, or going there now. Decisions, decisions, decisions... andreasegde 08:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The Beatles and forking articles

I have a problem that I would like to impart to all you good 'Beatles project' editors, and it is this:

  • Should anything directly Beatles-related be in the main Beatles' article, and only 'personal' stuff put into the Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, and Starr articles? I have the disturbing feeling that I'm repeating stuff in both Lennon and McCartney articles that should only be in the main article.
  • But... if only personal stuff is included in the individual Beatles' articles, would it make them too confusing/random, to read?

Please answer (on a stamped and self-addressed postcard please) on our talk page. (This might be more interesting than talking about MBEs... :) andreasegde, Mr Hornby, and Sir Sean de Garde 15:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Jim and Mary

If there are articles on Julia Lennon, Freddie Lennon, Mimi and George Smith, then why are there none (or even one) about Jim and Mary McCartney? This is a disgrace, and an affront to the Beatles Empire, don't you know. Hrrumphh.. Sir Sean de Garde 15:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

This will be corrected during the next school term. Mr Hornby 15:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Knackered

I have to admit that I have run out of energy on this gargantuan task. (I may be experiencing my first bout of 'Wiki-stress', and I don't like it very much). I will now concentrate on Mimi and George Smith, Julia and Freddie Lennon, and Jim and Mary McCartney for a while (if only to dispel some Urban Legends). If anyone wants a citation for something specific, please leave a message on my talk page. andreasegde, Mr Hornby, Sir Sean de Garde, John Bender and Raoul McKnickers 02:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Sound clips?

Anybody know the Wikipedia policy on using sound clips? I'd like to upload a few brief ones and use them to show things like development of a song. Raymond Arritt 13:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Never mind. I found out that Wikipedia requires all audio files to be in Ogg format, so even if they were allowed few people could hear them. Raymond Arritt 19:06, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
I've seen this format, which delivers good sound quality and is still small. How do you do (what you do to me) it? andreasegde 19:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Singles chronologies

"We Can Work It Out"
"We Can Work It Out" cover
Single by The Beatles
Genre Rock/Pop
The Beatles UK singles chronology
"Help!"
(1965)		 "We Can Work It Out" / "Day Tripper"
(1965)		 "Paperback Writer"
(1966)


The Beatles U.S. singles chronology
"Yesterday"
(1965)		 "We Can Work It Out" / "Day Tripper"
(1965)		 "Nowhere Man"
(1966)

I noticed recently that a series of edits was made to We Can Work It Out. Not all the Beatles singles are on my watchlist, so I didn't notice that similar changes were made to others as well. I've temporarily replaced the custom markup with a standard {{Extra chronology}} template, but I'm not sure how to best handle the situation. The problem is the two disparate chronologies. I'm curious if there was a previous consensus here about how to handle the situation. If only one chronology is to be included, that's fine. If consensus is that both are to be included, though, then ideally, I think one should be titled "The Beatles UK singles chronology" and the other "The Beatles U.S. singles chronology". I would suggest omitting the main singles chronology fields entirely, and using two extra chronology templates, as in the compacted example at right. Note the use of the "Artist" field in the sub-templates to clean up/clarify. Any comments/objections? --Fru1tbat 16:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

It's been several weeks since I posted the above about the non-standard style that I noticed in some of the singles articles. I'd really like to go through and start cleaning them up. If there are no comments, I'll assume my above proposal is ok with the project. --Fru1tbat 15:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


Mimi Smith

I find that I am really enjoying working on Mimi Smith (if that were possible, Vicar) and I am free of interference from vandals (she's not that interesting to them..) It also means that a lot of interesting stuff gets put in about The Beatles (that I never knew before). I'm having fun, and I hope you are too. andreasegde 19:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I have nominated it for GA. Knock me down wi' a fev-ver, Guv-nor... andreasegde 01:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Where?

I can hear the sound of a long echo in an empty city. Hello - hello - hello - hello.... Has everyone gone to the moon? andreasegde 18:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Multiple personalities

It said, in the last Beatles' newsletter, that "Sir Sean de Garde appears to have developed multiple personalities." This is very true (and made me laugh an awful lot) but it is necessary when one is faced with talking to one on one's pages that one has contributed to. (Work that one out... :) The changing of one's name brings tremendous amusement to one - as other editors are wont to do the same. I refer you to members, Vera, Chuck, and Dave, LessHeard vanU, and Crestville, who have given one a terrific amount of pleasure in the general 'laughing gear' area, because of their inovative choices of Nom de plumes. One can only hope that this practice does not offend one's own sense of normality. One can only live in hope. :)) Who am I? 20:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Are you suggesting that you are also VC&D, LHvU, and C'ville? Probably not, but it's getting late and I've been on pain medication, so I'm not thinking straight.McTavidge 02:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
No, they have multiple personalities that even they can not control.... :)) Pain medication? Look at Mr. Hero's (VC&D) talk page. I am beginning to wonder if I edit these pages to add citations, or to laugh my socks off. What a wonderful life. andreasegde 19:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yesterday and Today

I'm not an official participant, but I was distressed to see an "unreferenced" tag on the album Yesterday and Today. I've added some references, enough to justify removing the tag, but if someone else could fill in the cracks, I think it'll be a pretty good article. --GentlemanGhost 12:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Make your own talk page, and join us. (Make the changes yourself, BTW.) andreasegde 20:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Influence on Recording Music

I've created an article The Beatles' influence on recording music, obviously, in retrospect, I should have looked here first to make it fit in with the project. But as I've done it now, perhaps some other Beatle fanatics could have a look.

I'd be pleased if someone wanted to collaborate on this; I feel sure I've missed some Beatle influenced techniques.

Apepper 12:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey, no problem! All contributions (and contributors, do you want to stick your name on the participants list on the project page here?) are welcome. As for collaboration, now that it exists I'm certain that there will be no end of edits... LessHeard vanU 17:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the welcome! I'll add my name. Apepper 20:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Send this editor (Apepper) The Beatles newsletter, and a big bunch of flowers. Maybe he likes chocolates as well? Welcome, Apepper. andreasegde 21:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

FA humour

I hereby recommend this editor's comments for FA:

I didn't say it did; I was using RS as an example of a good source, if RS (or any other good published reference) had taken a poll and declared the results showed that the Beatles were the tallest band ever to play Croyden Tea Rooms then they could then be "acclaimed" as giants of popular music. Only then could this be cited and included in the article.::::::: ;) LessHeard vanU 17:18, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The Laughing Cavalier 21:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Mimi and Julia

They are both up for GA. Call me a (....insert words here...), but it would be nice for some Beatles editors to have a look at them and tell me if I am 'barking up the wrong tree'. Yours faithfully, Mr Hornby 21:30, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I took Julia out. I want to wait and see if Mimi gets a GA, or a good bashing... andreasegde 20:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Should get GA, I think Mimi is fab. Bongo O'Starkers
I thank you, young man, but if you don't turn on your siren and race to the fishmongers to get some hake fish for my cats (which you once rescued from a tree) I will tell John to give you a cuff around the ear. Mimi Smith 20:09, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
Received, Alfa Four-One on route. Wooooooooooooooooooooerararararararararrarararararara!

Julia is back in again, which is probably a reflection of her life with Johnny. andreasegde 18:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Good article Review of The Beatles

I've submitted The Beatles at good article review. While there are a number of references, good articles these days (particularly on lengthy topics) are expected to be well-cited. There are a plethora of fact tags in The Beatles article, an unreferenced section, missing fair use rationales, improperly formatted citations to websites. This is not necessarily mean that the article will lose its GA status, so your input at good article review would be appreciated. Teemu08 21:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I have worked on it, and it looks more like a GA now. I will send you the bill, forthwith. (Bogus cheques for 5 pounds will not be accepted from Crestville) :) andreasegde 06:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Steinway used at Abbey Road

I'm looking to correlate some information I wrote somewhere else with the experts. Is anything specific known about the Steinway they recorded on at Abbey Road? Was there only one? Would it still be sitting there to this day? –Unint 03:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I think (from Anthology) that McCartney bought it. He has bought lots of stuff, so maybe he plans to open his own corner shop some day. :) andreasegde 06:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. So it could not have been sitting in a cupboard at the studio, circa 1996-7? –Unint 19:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Not sure which year he bought it. Ah, I see what you mean now... but did they have two pianos? One for each studio? andreasegde 03:04, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Paul McCartney

I have nominated it for FA. andreasegde 22:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC) No I haven't, because I messed it up. Bugger. andreasegde 04:37, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I truly do believe I've got it right this time. Wonders will never cease. andreasegde 04:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Judging by the movement on the FA Nom page, it may get reviewed before next Xmas. Don't hold your breath.. andreasegde 06:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

NO! It's being reviewed as we speak. Where are you all? If it gets a kick in the pants, I will never go for FA again. Defending "commas in the wrong places", and "too many citations" (laugh) is 'not my cup of tea', as they say... andreasegde 09:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

It's going down the pan. The points made were all valid - although not about the article, but about commas, reference formatting, and spacing. Ho-hum; onwards and upwards... andreasegde 21:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
It is a learning process, mate. I suppose there is something to be said that an FA should read enjoyably, but it really is nitpicking. Next time (of course there is going to be a next time!) we will have to get someone to proofread it. Mind you, if we decide that we are not going limit ourselves to an arbitary limit then said reader will be faced with 12,000+ plus words... Chin up anyhow!
To be honest, I am getting a little bit teazy about some of the self proclaimed guardians of Wikipedia. I note that along with the Beatles at WP:GAR is Shakespeare! It seems that if you want to take a subject to FA or GA these days then pick a subject that nobody is going to be interested in, then you can polish it up to your hearts content. If you are editing one of those pieces that pull people into the Wiki world, those that a new editor will want to add a few lines too (and isn't familiar with standards or policy or that they exist), then just get used to the fact that despite your efforts it is only ever going to be classed as B grade. It makes me really rather cross and I am just contemplating which avenue/medium in Wiki I shall use voicing my festering resentment. Really. I am going to use the Beatles article as an example. I will let folks know when and where I am letting rip (and I do mean rip, I will be using language that may get me suspended). LessHeard vanU 22:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Better off going for peer review with Paul McCartney next time. Also, I think we should have a sandbox for articles Beatles regulars are working on, so vandals can't mess around when work's being done. Then when you want it FAC'd, you just paste the sandbox content into the actual article. Seriously good idea I reckon. LuciferMorgan 01:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Good grief, LuciferMorgan, that sounds like a spiffing idea. 10 points to that man. andreasegde 05:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Volunteering as copyeditor-in-residence. I'm working on lots of other stuff, but ping me when something fab needs a spot of polish for FA nom, GA review, or whatever. Raymond Arritt 05:35, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Reducing talk page template clutter

While I was at Talk:Paul McCartney trying to determine if a peer review had been done, I noticed the template clutter there. I asked a knowledgeable editor what should be done - his answer is Greek to me, but here it is, FWIW:

WP:Beatles needs to be asked to implement the "small" option on their banner; and it should also be added to {{reqimageother}}. Once that's done, the templates should be more-or-less neatly collapsible.

Don't be discouraged, Andreasegde - it's all a learning curve, Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:00, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)

I have made a few comments at the above place, mostly directly relating to frustrations I have encountered while contributing to this Project and the articles The Beatles and Paul McCartney. My festering resentment has leaked out in the form of WP:FAR and WP:GAR are the enemies of WP:The Encyclopedia That Anyone Can Edit. Please feel free to disassociate yourselves from me... ;~) LessHeard vanU 01:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I strongly agree with everything you have written there, and have stated so.Vera, Chuck & Dave 03:46, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I have thrown my cap in the ring, and I agree with your very perceptive comments. andreasegde 04:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Anyway - I don't know if LessHeard's comments will keep the zealot vultures away, but we could try to ignore them on the pages a bit more, and not get ourselves in long discussions about whether one tiny sentence should be changed or not. We know who we are, do we not? Let's not let the ............ (insert insulting word here) grind us down, and distract us. (Note use of hyphen/en-dash/em-dash at start)Mr. Softy "Mine's a 99!" 04:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Discouraged, moi?

To all the editors that sent me encouraging words - a heart-felt thank you. I am not discouraged in the least, and I will carry on as always. I expected a barrage of comments, and was not surprised. I even laughed a lot at the differences between hyphens, en-dashes, and em-dashes, which I will have to find/create on my Austrian keyboard. ( - -- _ __ these are all I have... :(

Tho’ much is taken, much abides; and tho’

We are not now that strength which in old days

Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;

One equal temper of heroic hearts,

Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(Tennyson)

andreasegde 05:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I am impressed. Not too often that you see Tennyson put up against comma-cops. Tvoz | talk 07:41, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't resist this:

En dash versus em dash

The en dash is half the width of the em dash. The width of the en dash was originally the width of the typeset letter "N", while the width of the em dash was the width of "M"; hence the names.

Traditionally an em dash—like so—or spaced em dash — like so — has been used for a dash in running text. Some guides, including the Elements of Typographic Style, now recommend the more concise spaced en dash – like so – and argue that the length and visual magnitude of an em dash cater to grandiose Victorian era taste. However, some longstanding typographical guides such as The Chicago Manual of Style still recommend unspaced em dashes for this purpose. In practice, there is little consensus, and it is a matter of personal or house taste; the important thing is that usage should be consistent.

En dashes are often preferred to em dashes when text is set in narrow columns (as in newspapers and similar publications).

andreasegde 11:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Here, this will give you a chuckle. I have just looked through Macca, and guess how many en-dashes that needed em-dashes I found? Three. 'Effin three. The sentences just needed commas or parentheses. Astounded is not the word... andreasegde 13:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Please have a look

Mimi Smith and Julia Lennon are up for GA review. Cal me a glutton for punishment, but they need a scan by eagle-eyes. andreasegde 07:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I am just trying to find the correct venue for my next venting of spleen regarding the matter of "Flogship Articles"; an invention of mine regarding an article that has barely any life left in it, but is nominated for Review just 'cos an editor fancies getting a good whipping... ;~) LessHeard vanU 14:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC) ps. I have no idea why I mention this here!
  • I've got the very thing for you, my dearest LessHeard vanU. I have just been delving into the Macca FA review and I have found some very 'effin interesting stuff. Have a read at the end of the review to see something surprising regarding the Wiki manual of style, and who they cite. The game is afoot, my dear Watson! en and em-dashes, my mother's ar#e... andreasegde, who is a bit miffed 07:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Mimi Smith

Mimi has been classified as GA (with a very positive comment that it could be FA). Congratulations to Crestville, McTavidge, Raymond Arritt, Tvoz, anybody else, and that bloke with the girl's name. (The drinks are on him, BTW...) andreasegde 15:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC) P.S. On to Julia Lennon... Cheese & Onion crisps, Fish & Chips, Pork Scratchings, and a pint of John Smith's Smooth, please. 17:34, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

You misspelled "Fuller's ESB." Hope this helps. Raymond Arritt 13:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
Point taken. Is the first round on you? "Time, Gentlemen please!" 15:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I have just realised that John Lennon is a B article, and Mimi Smith is a GA. Mimi has one up on Johnny at last.andreasegde 09:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The Beatles Trivia

They're at it again - trying to delete it. See the discussion page. The Beatles Trivia "delete" page. andreasegde 19:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

The disgruntled editor is Worldtraveller, who nominated it for deletion last July, and has done it again (only 6 months later). He even specifically mentions The Beatles trivia on his talk page as something he really doesn't like. andreasegde 09:16, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

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