Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Textile Arts

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[edit] Fundamental topics and portal

Before we can design a portal, we need to agree on which topics are fundamental to our project. Here's my thoughts on a basic list, please add items and comment. (I would think that anything on the fundamental list would also be "Top" importance by default).

[edit] Fundamental (top importance) topics

Sewing
Knitting
Weaving
Embroidery
Needlework
Textile
Crochet
Lace (there's a defunct project on this with its own portal)
Yarn

What else is fundamental? (Someone agrees - all but two of these were already tagged as "top" importance when I went to check. Have so tagged the others.) - PKM 18:25, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I've created the portal. Add to it as necessary. --Eyrian 20:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Looked at it and — you rock. Amazing work; William Morris is a great choice, and also dear to my heart for his work in furniture and calligraphy. Now I need to figure out how Portals work, since I've never really explored one before... Willow 02:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh good not just me. I did a "did you know" - and if anyone has a better idea for the featured image, change away! - PKM 04:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Would Spinning also be fundamental?--Alizera

I think so. --Eyrian 05:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Agree. Oh yes! - PKM 19:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Listing the portal

It appears we should list it in Wikipedia:Portal/Directory. - PKM 04:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Defining importance

How shall we define TOP, HIGH, MID and LOW importance? Here's a suggestion - please comment:

Top: Fundamental topics like sewing, yarn

High: Types of embroidery or lace, or major subcategories, or important tools or concepts; for example Embroidery stitch, Sewing machine, loom, needlelace.

I would be interested in discussing whether these should also be Top, and High/Mid should both apply to the next category as editors choose. - PKM
I don't think so. The basic techniques are absolutely essential to people's understanding of the subject. Top should be reserved for things that encompass entire fields of the art. --Eyrian 20:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


Mid: Styles or trends, tools, individual stitches: Button, warp (weaving), Point de Venise, Art needlework.

Low:Technical topics, such as only an expert would be likely to appreciate? I'm not sure what that'd cover here, though. Perhaps non-standard styles of weaving, highly decorative/complicated knitting stitches, farthingales, details of men's tailoring, that sort of thing? For example, twill weave might be of Mid importance, but an exotic and amazingly cool Jacquard from the 17th century might be "Low". What do you all think? Great work, BTW! :) Willow 02:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

That's how I've been using it. For instance, coutil is a very esoteric and specific fabric. Looks like a lot of the less-common forms of lace get dumped in there as well. --Eyrian 02:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that's how I've been using it, too. — DroEsperanto 16:08, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Looking over the assessments other people have done, I'm seeing a big disparity between how I would've assessed importance and how others are doing so. When I read the def'n of Low as "Subject is mainly of specialist interest", I think of things like specific stitch techniques and patterns—such as Ikat, Holbein stitch, Bobble (knitting), Berlin wool work). If those are Mid then I'm hard-pressed to imagine what would actually be Low. I also see a number of High-ranked pages that I would certainly expect to be lower (although not as often, and the Top ones I mostly much agree with). So, I'd amend the listing as follows:
Top: Fundamental topics like sewing, yarn—the major categories of textile arts, and the tools and materials which are used in multiple such categories.
High: The largest subcategories of the fundamental categories, either as currently practiced (e.g. Fair Isle (technique), Cross-stitch) or of notable historical significance (not sure of examples here). Also, the main page on the history of each fundamental category (e.g. History of knitting). Any tool that is sine qua non for a fundamental category (e.g. Knitting needle). Persons of great historical significance within an entire category (e.g. Elizabeth Zimmermann).
Mid: Any other subcats of the fundamentals (e.g. Double knitting, Bobbin lace), or overall textile categories that are nevertheless of mostly historic or academic interest (e.g. Nålebinding). Other tools commonly used (e.g. Knitting gauge, Thimble). People specifically associated with a style (e.g. Marianne Kinzel for knitted lace). Techniques and universal patterns that are well-known but perhaps not immediately relevant to someone learning about the art rather than how to do the art (e.g. English knitting).
I tagged Berlin wool work as Mid importance because of its historical significance, though no one does it today. I've been tagging "core" embroidery stitches like Chain stitch as High, although I see I tagged Buttonhole stitch as Mid which is probably inconsistent since it's fundamental in sewing, embroidery and lace-making. I'm all for a consensus. - PKM 02:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


Low: Tools that probably wouldn't deserve their own WP page unless someone rustles up some interesting historical variations or something (e.g. Stitch counter). Specific techniques that are uncommon enough that you would expect to see a sidebar explaining them to come with any pattern that used them (e.g. Picot stitch, Bobble (knitting)). Regional styles that may be very distinctive but which aren't even well known to practitioners outside that region (e.g. Ikat). Other people involved in the textile arts.
Sorry that so many of my examples are tied into knitting; that's just my main area of expertise here. I would like to see examples in other areas—people can often generalise from examples better than they can grok an abstract description. /blahedo (t) 21:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A sort of short textile stub

Textile Museum is very close to me, even though I have never visited it. I gather it is very interesting. And the article here is so so short !--Filll 00:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey Filll, welcome to our new little home! Anything you'd like to add about the Textile Museum or any other topic would be great. :) Willow 02:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maintaining the portal

I don't have much experience with portals - do the Category lists etc. get maintained by hand or is there a Trick I don't know about? - PKM 00:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It seems they need to be maintained by hand. I've tried to add the important ones. --Eyrian 01:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Portal selected biography

I picked William Morris, largely from convenience (he seemed to have a good article). If anyone else wants to replace him, I'd love to hear suggestions. --Eyrian 01:22, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

William Morris is perfect, thank you. - PKM 03:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clothing

Are all articles on clothing and fashion design within the scope of this project? - PKM 17:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think they should be. Insofar as clothing requires textiles, some of the fringe articles should be shared, but adding clothing to the project might blow the scope wide open. It's important to remain focused on the articles that center around textiles and their production. --Eyrian 17:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree with that, actually. I think the portal is shaping up nicely and we have a good-sized scope to work in. At some point, I'd like to see a sister project on clothing and fashion design, but there are huge gaps there and big questions around categories and hierarchies. Willow, would you agree with that? - PKM 02:47, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I do notice that Wikipedia:WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology has over 3800 articles in it! Perhaps we can make a daughter project once we get our fundamentals cleaned up? - PKM 23:12, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, a relatively new user, Tameeria, has been tagging hundreds of articles at WP:MCB, so that we have an embarrassment of riches over there right now; it's wonderful work! A lot of them, though, are on very specific molecules, which might be akin to us creating a page for every knitting stitch covered by Barbara G. Walker.
I'd originally intended to have both clothing/fashion and knitting/weaving/sewing/etc. under one Wikiproject, for two reasons. Mainly, I was worried about user attrition over time, and thought that one larger WikiProject might be easier to keep alive, rather than two smaller ones. As a minor concern, I wasn't sure if there were enough active editors that would agree to commit to a WikiProject Clothing and Fashion Design; I probably needn't have worried on that score, though. Build it and they will come — or at least we will. ;)
There might be a few boundary topics such as "topstitching", say, but both WikiProjects can cover them; the more the merrier! :)
I think it would be wonderful to have two sister WikiProjects, ideally coordinated with one another. Perhaps we should submit another proposal to the WikiProject Council? Once it's approved, I'd be glad to set up the Mathbot to track the new project's assessments; he's my pal! ;) Willow 23:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
That sounds great, though it means my attention will be further split! We need more bots. - PKM 23:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

Willow - question on the project page: "Article Worklist" links to Wikipedia:WikiProject Textile Arts/Organization which confuses me. And what would be the difference between "Article Worklist" and "Project tasks"? I have started populating the to-do list and started the Project Tasks page. - PKM 23:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

The worklist was meant as a categorization of our assessed articles; see the MCB example. Properly, it should do directly to the Worklist sub-page. But none of us are sure how the worklist bot works, so perhaps it's best to leave our worklist languish for the moment. ;) You're all doing great stuff; it's wonderful to see the project taking off. I have to run now, but I'll try to do some more late tonight. Ta ta, Willow 00:34, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Ha! Okay. Have I created any pages by hand that should be created by bots? Oops if so. - PKM 03:48, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration of the Month

I assume that this would start up some time soon, since it's nearing the end of the month. Is anyone up to the challenge of getting this organized? DroEsperanto 18:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good. What's it to be? --Eyrian 19:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
How about yarn (which also covers "thread")? It's common to all textile arts, and might be relatively easy to improve. What do others think? Willow 20:32, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Yarn sounds like a great first COTM. It's something that all of us more-or-less have experience in, since, like you said, is common to all textile arts. We'd just have to make sure we keep out cruft in the form of links to places to buy yarn and stuff. :3 DroEsperanto 21:41, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good to me too. - PKM 23:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm in, too. --Eyrian 02:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm going off to see my sister and her new baby for a week, but I'll collaborate on Yarn once I get back. Good luck and have fun! Looking forward to working with you all, Willow 13:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Textile manufacturing terminology

This article seems to be an explosion of redefinitions. What should be done with it? --Eyrian 22:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed that article before, but it's a little concerning to me; could the text be plagiarized from somewhere? We should check that somehow. Otherwise, it seems like a good worklist for us. :) Willow 13:21, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree that the article is a list of terms, and it is so because of me. I found it shortly after I started editing, and wasn't sure what to do with it, only that something needed to be done. The terms included were ones that there were articles and stubs on, or other terms I know. The text mainly was copied over from articles or stubs, and I only actually wrote a small portion. I don't know what should be done with it- it has expanded a lot from what I originally had and is really very long, and most of the terms have an article of sorts now. Maybe if we could insure that each term has its own article, and that it is a good article, we wouldn't need it? Loggie 19:59, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Templates

I think it might be nice to have some navigation templates for textile arts articles. I've made a few before ({{barding}} and {{Elements of Medieval armor}}), and it'd be relatively straightforward to make more. What sorts of boxes would be useful? Techniques? Tools? --Eyrian 18:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Knitting peer review

Hey, guys! I've requested a peer review for knitting here. I'd appreciate any feedback you guys have, so feel free to join in. – Dok(talk|contribs) 16:23, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Also listed it as a Good Article candidate, if anyone who hasn't heavily contributed to the article would like to review it. – Dok(talk|contribs) 16:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Textile artists?

Hi, I am an overactive WP Films gnome, but have lived many years with an Austrian textile artist, who is also member of the Kunstlerhaus. I have done for her a bilingual (German-English) website, http://www.cc-textile-art.com and I could also make an article if I ever get a short break from Films. I just found your project by chance, so I wanted to ask you if your scope encompasses textile artists as well and if you think this artist passes notability criteria to have an article. Please, let me know. Hoverfish Talk 23:36, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I just noticed this is the to-do page, so please move this where it is more appropriate. Hoverfish Talk 23:46, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
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