Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Terrorism and counter-terrorism

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[edit] Emerging debate

I've got a question for the participants in this (these) WikiProject(s). Is the mere assumption of the concept "terrorism" related to the official point of view of certain governments about it? Without a strict definition of the term, this WikiProject by itself could derive in a biased set of articles, opinions and assertions that would be taken just as an mere echo of persons, institutions or even States that have strong interests in the general perception of what "terrorism" is. That problem is particularly notorious in some of the proposed aspects involved in the WikiProject, such as "Terrorism and Counter-Terrorism". Who decides if certain armed action is a genuine act of terrorism? Are the "legally covered" military actions, against a specific group or a whole country, outside any judgment of its hypothetic terrorist character? Wikipedia has its main strength in the neutrality, which guarantees the independency of the global project and, also, allows the project to be shared in its philosophy by many people around the world. I know that it could be very hard for the leaders of the Wikipedia project take control of the spread variety of initiatives that appear here and there (and, certainly, this is not the idea of those leaders), but it is quite important for the future of this valuable project that its nature doesn't get distorted as new branches emerge.

[edit] Operation Enduring Freedom

I have started work on OEF articles. There was talk by a user of wanting to merge OEF into Afghan war so I began to expand the article to show its more then just Afghanistan that its related to. I am currently looking for OEF-HOA, Horn of Africa, related information so I can begin an article on that, currently just have some senate reports about it. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 14:27, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Yea, that merge is unecessary considering OEF was more than Afghanistan, I will try to help out there. Rangeley 14:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Waziristan War

We could clean this one up a bit more, its pretty sparse as is. Rangeley 02:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I will take a look at it tomorrow if my work load is light. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 02:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I have some information regarding captures AQ members, high ranking people. Just do not know how to put it in or format it. I will throw the links here and a summary, trying to avoid creating a massive timeline.
  • [1] - USAToday - May 4th, 2005
  • [2] - CNN - April 1st, 2002
    • The Saudi born Zayn al-Abidn Muhammed Hasayn Abu Zubaydah was arrested by Pakistani officials during a series of joint US and Pakistan raids during the week of March 23, 2002. During the raid the suspect was shot three times while trying to escape capture by military personnel. Zubaydah is said to be a high ranking al-Qaeda official with the title of operations chief and in charge of running al-Qaeda training camps.
  • [3] - CNN - March 1st, 2003
    • Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was arrested during CIA-led raids on the suburd of Rawalpindi, nine miles outside of the Pakistan capital of Islamabad. Mohammed at the time of his capture was the third highest ranking official in al-Qaeda and directly in charge of the planning for the September 11th attacks. Escaping capture the week before during a previous raid, the Pakistani government was able to use information gathered from other suspects captured to locate and detain Mohammed. Mohammed was indicted in 1996 by the United States government for links to the "Manilla air conspiracy", a plot to bomb a series of U.S. civilian airliners. Other events Mohammed has been linked to include; ordering the killing of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl, USS Cole bombing, Richard Reids attempt to blow up a civilian airliner with a shoe bomb, the terrorist attack at the El Ghriba synagogue in Djerba, Tunisia. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has described himself as the head of the al-Qaeda military committee.
  • [4] - Pavda - September 14th, 2002
    • Ramzi Binalshibh was arrested in Pakistan after a three-hour gunfight with police forces. Binalshibh is known to have shared a room with Mohammad Atta in Hamburg, Germany and to be a financial backer of al-Qaeda operations. It is said Binalshibh was suppose to be another hijacker, however the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services] rejected his visa application three times, leaving him to the role of financier. The trail of money transffered from Binalshibh in Germany to the United States links both to Mohammad Atta and to Zacarias Moussaoui.

I added all this to the Waziristan article under a section titled Success, and rearranged it to be chronologically correct. --zero faults |sockpuppets| 18:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Terrorism

Were you all aware of this pre-existing (January '06) WikiProject? Your scope seems a little more expansive than theirs. Anyway, go take a look. GRBerry 03:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comprehensive effort

This appears to be a comprehensive effort to help articles dealing with this important subject. I am also interested in this area, especially in counterterrorism and links between terror organizations and state-sponsors. Since I do not know my way around the project yet, I would like to ask a few questions. Under what category is the War on Terrorism article found? Is there a category under counterterrorism for the Operation Iraqi Freedom documents article? Is there a category suitable for the Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda article? I have not looked yet, but there should be an article on Hezbollah and al-Qaeda. Is there a category for articles that discuss the relationship between terror organizations? Thanks for helping me find my way around. RonCram 12:21, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merger with WikiProject Terrorism

As both groups are basically dealing with the same subject, it seems to me to make sense that the two Projects combine efforts. They might be able to improve more articles more quickly if they had a coordinated effort to do so, as opposed to having two, potentially competing, groups covering the same territory. Badbilltucker 14:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

As the founder of the aforementioned group, I would strongly invite and welcome the members of this group into our fold - we could benefit greatly from combining our passions to learn and educate. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 15:31, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes i think joining together is a good idea as it makes a stronger project.Hypnosadist 01:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Uh... we never agreed to merge. It takes two to tango, and we refuse. This project is fine as is, and I most certainly dont want to join yours now that you vandalized our page... ~Rangeley (talk) 13:09, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I didn't vandalise anything, I merged the two projects. Please doublecheck edit summaries before reverting. I'm combining the two "participants" into one, I'm moving the two lists of objectives into one, I'm adding all your information into ours. Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 14:31, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
This project is not merging into yours. You invited us to, and if someone wants to join yours they can, however as the founder of this I have never once agreed to merge and most certainly will not now. I do not appreciate your removal of things from this and placing them on your project as if you had that authority. I will also ask you to stop removing our templates from pages. ~Rangeley (talk) 21:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Being a "founder" gives you no more power than anyone else in a WikiProject. -- Ned Scott 01:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The two fundamental questions to me seem to be

  • (1) which name would be better, "Terrorism" or "Terrorism and counter-terrorism", if there were to be a merger, and
  • (2) is any real purpose served by having both of the two overlapping projects exist and, at least potentially, begin some kind of edit warring?

Personally, I would favor the latter name, as it is slightly broader and deals with the responses to terrorism as well. And, regarding the second question, there have been projects dealing with the same subject matter competing with each other before, and the results were not good. In the instances I am aware of, one of the projects was deleted over the objections of the project's participants. I sincerely hope that the two of you can achieve some sort of reasonable agreement, or at least accomodation of each other. One other possibility exists. Do you think that both groups could agree on a third name for a project, which potentially you could both "merge" into? I would welcome any responses. Badbilltucker 17:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

A merger is not happening. ~Rangeley (talk) 20:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
WikiProjects aren't clubs, it doesn't work like that. You can't actually "refuse" in that manner. It might be that the two projects do not merge, but it's not just because you say so, etc. You are showing serious ownership issues here. WikiProjects are supposed to be points of collaborations first, not groups of editors first. It's a bit like having two talk pages for the same article. In some situations, depending on the Project's scope, having more than one project can be ok, but this is not one of those situations. Having two different projects with the same scope will only lead to conflict, will be very inefficient, and is just plain.. stupid. -- Ned Scott 09:15, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I guess we have a difference of opinion then. There are overlaps in many projects, I don't see how having an overlap can lead to conflict. Unless of course people from one project start removing templates from the other or removing information from their page. This has happened to our project in the past, and it was not appreciated. I am perfectly fine with the existence of this other Wikiproject with similar aims, and while you seem to think it stupid I am willing to have some good faith that the people of both projects can both improve Wikipedia. ~Rangeley (talk) 02:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
WikiProjects are points of collaboration first, and groups of people second. Why would we have two different points of centralized collaboration? Isn't that.. an oxymoron? There is no reason to keep two projects like this, as it totally defeats the point of having a WikiProject. It shouldn't matter "where" the talk pages are, or what title the templates have, it's the same effort and same kinds of discussion. Why would you want to needlessly separate something like that? there's no point. -- Ned Scott 02:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timeline of terrorism

see discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Terrorism#Timeline_of_terrorism

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 23:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Crime

I've been asking around on various crime and criminology related WikiProjects in regards to a recent proposal for WikiProject Crime and weither members of WikiProject Terrorism and counter-terrorism as well as other projects would be interested in forming a Portal:Crime in order to organize and coordinate overlapping crime and criminology related projects ? MadMax 22:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Project Megiddo

I tagged Project Megiddo with this Project--what else needs to be done? I wasn't sure if this or the general Terror project would be better, either... thoughts? F.F.McGurk 21:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Campaignbox

Canal Hotel Bombing
Canal Hotel Bombing
Location Baghdad, Iraq
Target(s) United Nations headquarters
Date August 19, 2003
Attack Type Car bomb
Fatalities 22
Injuries 100+
Perpetrator(s) al-Qaeda
Bombings and terrorist attacks of the Iraq War
Attacks with 80+ casualties in bold:
Jordanian embassy – UN headquarters – Imam Ali Mosque – 1st Baghdad – Nasiriyah – Karbala – Irbil – Ashoura – Basra – Baqubah – Kufa – FOB Marez – 1st Al Hillah – Musayyib – 2nd Baghdad – 3rd Baghdad – Khanaqin – Al-Askari Mosque – Buratha Mosque – 1st Sadr City – 2nd Sadr City – 4th Baghdad – 5th Baghdad – 6th Baghdad – 7th Baghdad – 8th Baghdad – 2nd Al Hillah – Tal Afar

See this proposal for a terrorist campaign box under the terror attack infobox. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 23:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Terrorism in Kazakhstan

Two users, or possibly one, Aaliyah Stevens and Cs, tried to delete Terrorism in Kazakhstan. The AFD failed (66% voted in favor of keeping it), but they have effectively refused to accept the community's consensus. Cs has moved the page to "Potential for Terrorism in Kazakhstan." I find this title and other edits to this page by these two users to be ridiculous. Opinions on what the title of the article should be (on Talk:Potential for Terrorism in Kazakhstan) are welcomed. KazakhPol 03:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bad Info on Page

Somebody may want to check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_attacks_in_Canada - it looks like it's been vandalized. Last modified 13:23, 19 March 2007.

It's been a while since I read up on the subject, but I don't recall Orlando Bosch being "a extremely radical homosexal activist", among other gems.

I'd do it myself, but I don't have the time to do the research to do it right.

--161.203.16.1 18:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC) Pete

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