Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals

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An archived record of the discussion can be found here (Prior to archival it can be found here).


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[edit] This Page Seems To Be a Violation of WP:BOLD

Why would anybody need permission to edit something, stub or otherwise? I'm sorry, but this section makes no sense to me. Just H 07:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

WP:BOLD is not a "rule", such that "violations" of it can exist. We've found through experience that if people just create stub-types at will, we end up with a huge mess, which is useless for finding stub articles on a particular topic. Seeing as that's the point of tagging stubs, some Wikipedians decided to keep the stub categories organized. It actually makes a lot of sense, in context. -GTBacchus(talk) 07:15, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Just H, have you actually read WP:BOLD? Specifically, have you read the part that says that it applies to articles but not to templates or categories? Creating templates and categories can create quite a mess if they have to be cleaned up - especially when they impinge on the smooth operating of Wikipedia. WP:WSS does a lot of work towards the smooth running of wikipedia - creating new stub types without checking whether they work within the overall scheme of stub types reduces the ability to keep that running as smooth and uneventful as possible. Being able to be bold is a tenet of Wikipedia, but if you boldly create a fork of an article, say, it will be quickly deleted. if you create an unnecessary stub type, it may well require more than a simple deletion - it could involve a great deal of effort re-sorting stubs - effort which is better spent elsewhere. Grutness...wha? 07:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I did read it, but to be honest with you, I didn't understand the purpose of why that was there, as most policies seem to be arbitrarily made, whether they are "rules" or "guidelines" or whatever. If someone knows how to make a category and stub, I don't see the harm -- that section of WP:BOLD should only apply to newbies, but I don't know how to change that rule or propose a change to that rule without it being reverted by the status quo, so I ignored it. Just H 17:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The point is that stub sorters (i.e. the c. 400 members of this project) already have quite a lot on their plates maintaining a system containing thousands of stub templates. Stub tags are used on 100,000s of articles, so given the size of this task, we have to apply systematics when it comes to naming them, otherwise any sorting effort will be completely in vain, if we have to look up the name of every single stub template because they use completely different standards. The current system is pretty much the only thing that makes sorting possible in the first place since an editor can be sure that if {{Germany-bio-stub}} exists, then the similar template for Spain will be named {{Spain-bio-stub}}. Creating a template takes seconds. Deleting them takes at least a week a piece. This project does not prevent you from improving Wikipedia, since any good template idea is very likely to be approved as soon as people here have made sure that its name conforms to the naming system. It is also common sense that editors should be able to guess category names, which implies that the category tree for all countries follow a naming standard. Btw, this page has previously been nominated on WP:MFD where this proposal was rejected rather categorically.[1] But if somebody begins creating lots of badly named templates and then applies a bot to spread them all over the place, surely this will not be WP:BOLD but something quite different. It is this kind of scenario that we try to avoid. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 22:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible stub category

I haven't got the time right now to look for +60 articles, but at least there ar this two: [[2]] [[3]] that I think could use a psichology-book-stub (in the meantime, I used non-fiction-book-stub), and my guess is there could be more. Maybe I'll check it later, but anyway, keep it in mind. --Jbaio 13:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archiving the archives

If there's no objection, I'd like to move Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive to Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive2005-2006 or some such title, and leave January 2007 on the current page, to be continued. It's getting longish and a new year seems like a good time for a fresh page. Eh what?! Any thoughts? Her Pegship (tis herself) 05:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

  • No objections here. ~ Amalas rawr =^_^= 14:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Sounds good to me, too - and on a yearly basis from now on? Grutness...wha? 22:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
  • Good idea. Agree about yearly archives from 2007 and on. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 22:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Baltic States football biography stubs ?

Somehow I can't seem to find who closed the football bio proposals, but was the Baltic category actually approved? We don't single out the Balts anywhere else and I haven't heard about any Baltic football leagues or similar. Just curious. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 22:40, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

That would be me, tidying up. It's entirely possible I misunderstood something, so feel free to revise the closing tags or "to be created" listing. Here's the discussion itself. Cheers, Her Pegship (tis herself) 04:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment moved from Jan. proposals page

People who proposed about how the midle Juba province is owned were very wrong, this is because they mentioned the Daroot community belong a number of oercentage of the land. The ogaden community likewise belongs another percent of the land. Now who is Daroot and who is Ogaden?

According to my best of knowledge, what I know is this, Daroot is the same community for Odaden, but they want to get to shares of the land which is not possible. Ocassionally, the land Midle Juba and lower Juba belongs to the community called digil and mirifle and Somali Bantu and Bajuni only. The rest of the communities were brought by Mohamed Siad Barre from Ethiopia and Northern Somalia after a severe drought erupted there. They are only refugees and want to take over the lands of thses innocent people.

What you cana ask of yourself is, "the Italian colonised to which community in Southern Somalia?

By that time, none of the Ogaden, Hawiye and Mareteen community were present in colonization period, where were they?

The mango trees and coconut palms which are grown on the banks of the river Juba were issued by the Italian colonizers and the British colonizers. They gave only to Somali Bantus because they were colonized.

Eventually in Southern Somalia the people whom were colonised and belong the land are Somali Bantus and Digil and mirifle. The proof is that during a colonial period, a leader against the colonization must be there. Who was leader in Southern Somalia to resist the Italian colonization and the British as well. It was Nasiib Buundo of the Shambara Community who died jail in Moqadishu.

Proposed by: Jaate Kasiinje Kunjiila.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.88.156.46 (talk • contribs).

Exactly what is the "proposal" here? And what does it have to do with stub sorting? Grutness...wha? 04:31, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

just appearing as a newbie there. would like to propose some new stubs,

on Miscellaneous, Materials, i would propose to create a section about "Plastic(s)" ,including production, design and disposal or recycling. this planet is filled by PET, PP, and their likes, and this Wikipedia should develop a consensus on how to reduce their use (plastics) and improve disposal , and also another about "Glass" history, production, aso. (recycling glass is easy, except for the floated one)

finally in Science, i propose a stub about "optics" (did,nt see such, meabyh i need glasses/lenses myself...) , including the history of such lenses, instruments, microscopes, a.s.o. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 189.136.197.132 (talk • contribs).

[edit] WP:WSS/NG overhaul proposal (and first re-draft!)

(This is just a courtesy copy of the note originally posted on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting, since more sorters may actually be reading over here than over there.)

Took me about 7-8 hours, but I think it sings. Did not change a single substantive thing about it either, as far as how it works, what is recommends, what procedures are, etc., etc. It's just a massive cleanup. Please see first wikilink ("The story") for proposal on how to proceed, in stages, designed to prevent the process from descending into argument and editwarring. Goal: Have WSS/NG become a formal Wikipedia Proposal and then Guideline. At a guess this is stage 1 of 4. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 11:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

PS: Yes, this has something to do with being tired of arguing with Alai and Grutness in SfD and WSS/P, whatever the outcome of the argument, and instead wanting to work on something positive and cooperative in WSS, which is why I joined in the first place. :-) Toodles. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 11:09, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redrafting, stage 2

At Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Stub sorting/Naming guidelines/Redraft2 I have listed a bunch of unlikely-to-be-controversial improvements for the NG document. Most of these were already clearly identified in Redraft1 as HTML comments, while a few come from Redraft 1 discussion. The HTML comments just mentioned are still (as of this writing) present in Redraft2, to indicate likely insertion points. Depending on when you read this, some of them may have alread been replaced with new text, or removed because controversial. I would propose that any item on the list that anyone feels is controversial in any way should be struck out and saved for Redraft Phase 3, the dealing with controversial stuff. Several of them may require a consensus discussion to determine what exactly they should say/advise. Let's do it! — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 04:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] why stub categories?

why not just have a stub category for every normal category? Or just use the stub tag and automatically have the stub-category assigned by the page-category? And if there is no page-category then one could be added if there were a prexisting stub-category. why not have a script do this? Has this been discussed before? --Tim 18:08, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Very many times. And the answers to "why not" are very simple, some, but not all of which have been given by SMcC.:
  • from the point of view of stub sorting, it would require the maintenance and patrolling of literally tens of thousands of categories and templates. it is vrtually a full-time job maintaining the 1800 or so that currently exist. To maintain that many would be impossible.
  • From the point of view of general category maintenance, many stub categories would be permanently empty and therefore redundant (for example, how many articles in Cat:Presidents of the United States are likely to be stubs?). Since they would be of no use, many of them should be speedily deleted - and the second they are, the whole system of a one-for-one correlation between stubcats and permcats disappears. as such, it is unworkable.
  • From the point of view of the people actually using stub categories to find articles to expand, tiny fragmentations of stub type are a bad move. It is for this reason that the stub-sorting wikiproject has set optimum sizes for stub categories. Consider, for example, that you are looking for articles to expand on a specific subject. Which is easier, to look through one category with 100 stubs, one category with 10,000 stubs, or fifty categories with two or three stubs each? It is far less work for editors to have categories to search that are of sufficient size to be useful, but not so big as to be overwhelming.
  • From the standpoint of the articles themselves, there is an optimum number of stub types that an article should have. There are frequently complaints if an article is marked with too many stub types, yet your proposal would end up with some articles being marked with ten or more different stubs. Consider, for example, the stub article Green-winged Pytilia. This makes for ugly articles, and the addition of many of the extra types would be counterprodctive for the editorial reasons given above.
Grutness...wha? 23:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Continued here: Wikipedia_talk:Stub#Why_stub_categories.3F --Tim 04:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

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