Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scotland

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This Talk page is for discussing the core work of the WikiProject, ie. our drive to improve the quality of our key Scotland-related articles, focussing on Wikipedia 1.0 and beyond. For any other issues, please use Wikipedia talk:Scottish Wikipedians' notice board, which has a much wider remit.

Contents

[edit] Directly Scotland-related

I noticed that the "Directly Scotland-related" contains only articles with virtually nothing to do with Scotland. Shouldn't we keep such things Scotland-specific. If one is going to be so loose as to include War of the League of Cambrai, [[{Football (soccer)]], Battle of the Somme and BBC, you theoretically add just about every article. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 18:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Valid point. Although hard to know where to draw the line. The BBC for example really is a very important topic in regard to Scotland. --Mais oui! 19:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I have cut this section:

[edit] Directly Scotland-related

Atlantic Ocean · Battle of Normandy · Battle of the Somme · BBC · BBC television drama · Book of Kells · British East India Company · British Empire · British Isles (terminology) · British monarchy · City status in the United Kingdom · English language · Football · Football (soccer) · History of the Peerage · List of monarchs in the British Isles · Orca · Rugby World Cup · The KLF · United Kingdom · Victoria of the United Kingdom · War of the League of Cambrai ·

--Mais oui! 21:38, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Good move Mias oui!. The last thing we ought to be doing is pretending there are more good Scotland articles than there are. Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 08:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Clans of Scotland

Since the coming of WP Scotland, is there any precedent for putting WP Clans of Scotland under the scope of WP Scotland? Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png 23:26, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Yup. I am looking into this, similar to what the biography, Australia etc projects are doing with their various projects. Same for WP Scottish castles and WP Medieval Scotland. I'll get in tough once I've sussed it out. I have had very little spare time recently, but I am quite confident that I have a good window next week. In the meantime, have a look at the syntax of:
... and there are other precedents.
--Mais oui! 08:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Religion in Scotland

Is this article ever going to be created? Scotland has such a rich religious history that it seems strange that no article exists on the subject. --Bob 23:17, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Great minds think alike. It has been on my "to do" list for a couple of weeks now, but as I have the attention span of a midge, not much has been ticked off. Anyway, it would be far better if someone with a bit more expertise than myself gave the ball its first kick, cos as a bit of a heathen I am afraid that I could only produce a Start class article (unless I invested a lot of time in finding good references, which I do not have time for at present). That said, if no-one else starts it soon I will give it a go. (Note also that we are missing the long-requested Scottish Reformation article, but let's get the parent underway first!) --Mais oui! 09:11, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Incidentally, I've just spotted this article, begun in Feb: English Reformation. --Mais oui! 13:15, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I made a very rough start on this article, but it needs a lot of work on it from someone in the know 9which I most certainly am not). --Bob 16:03, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Art galleries and museums

I wonder if participants would take a glance over my work on National Gallery of Scotland this morning?

The article had been quite a sad little stub since creation on 30 July 2002 (although kudos of course to the editors who had taken the effort to start the article), which I considered to be something of a national disgrace :)

So I grasped the thistle myself. There is absolutely tons and tons of work that could be done, perhaps starting with a benchmarking exercise against really good art gallery articles (I assume these exist?)

All of our galleries and museums really are gems, and the Burrell Collection (stub), all the National Galleries of Scotland (stub), McManus Galleries (stub) and other key institutions really ought to be taken up beyond stub/start status to at least B quality. See Category:Art museums and galleries in Scotland.

We have no article at all on Aberdeen Art Gallery or Glasgow Museums, and others. --Mais oui! 18:44, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject award

I propose adopting Image:BoNM - Scotland.png as the project award, unless we think we can come up with a better one. I'd be happy to try, although I think the existing one is fine. (I already made the football barnstar, Image:FootballBarnstar.png.)

Thoughts?

[edit] Support Image:BoNM - Scotland

  1. --Guinnog 03:29, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
  2. Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png 08:59, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oppose

[edit] Comments and suggestions

  • I created this one, based off of the Irish version, and I must say that it is no fancy thing. But it'll do, for now. Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png 09:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edinburgh

The Edinburgh article has just been approved for WP:0.5. It is, in my opinion, easily the weakest of the Scotland-related articles that have so far made it to the selection, and certainly weaker than the Glasgow article, and probably the Aberdeen and Dundee ones too. (However it is worth noting that V0.5 has also approved many other B-class articles, and even Start- and Stub-class, so in the wider scale of things it is better than many.)

The Edinburgh article is a key one for this WikiProject as it has many thousand incoming links and should be providing a shop window or gateway to lots of our quality Scotland-related material here at Wikipedia.

I have raised the topic of benchmarking on the Talk page, and I think that the most obvious deficiencies - lack of a History section and lack of citations - have been raised by other users. Can those in the know please take a look at the article and try to help to bring it up to at least GA status? --Mais oui! 08:40, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mary I of England

Mary I of England is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 02:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 17:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish villages and place-names

How many articles are lacking a place-name definition?? Being a toponymist on British place-names, I could probably add this info into a lot of articles.

What we need is consensus to include this; don't worry, I'm not adding original research, just information from a very good Scottish place-names book.

How many people agree with my idea?? --SunStar Net 11:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

If you can provide a reference to the book, this sounds like a very good idea. --Guinnog 11:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll try and get the title of it next time I go the library (which no doubt will probably be next week!) SunStar Net 11:18, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images of Scotland

I wanted to draw attention to this category Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Scotland. some people here may be able to use it or fill some requests. To add an article to it add this {{reqphotoin|Scotland}} template to the Talk page GameKeeper 13:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] UK places coords

These Lists of United Kingdom locations by name contain coordinates , with Template:Coor title d these can add geographical links to any pages on Scotish locations. GameKeeper 22:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scotland Places Key

Based on the {{EngPlacesKey}}, I made {{ScotPlacesKey}}, and have put it on Castles in Scotland so far. I'm worried that its too generic and doesnt have any real value as a template, ie would it be better to write out the code each time to include only the most appropriate symbols? Is this something that is going to catch on? ::Supergolden:: 13:53, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of Scotland-related topics

List of Scotland-related topics should be a key entry-point for newer readers, a comprehensive complement to Portal:Scotland. Please join the discussion at:

--Mais oui! 08:15, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] James II of England

James II of England is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy (Talk) 21:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject

Maybe not exactly a direct child but close, as i have mentioned on the noticeboard, i am proposing a WikiProject that used to focus on 5 systems around Glasgow and Edinburgh. It however has been changed and is now called Transport in Scotland. Anyone interested? It will focus primarily on public transport, as stated on the sub-page. The proposal however is till going under its old name and so is the sub-page. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Transport_around_Glasgow_and_Edinburgh and User:Simply_south/WikiProject_Transport_around_Glasgow_and_Edinburgh. Simply south 12:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

The project is now official at Wikipedia:WikiProject Transport in Scotland. Should this be part of WikiProject Scotland? Simply south 23:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish Borders article

Please could someone assess it for me on the quality/ratings scale so that members of this project can help me get it to Featured article status?? In return I will help you get any other article to featured status! --SunStar Nettalk 22:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gaelic in placenames

Over the last few days, Gaelic versions of placenames have appeared in a number of Aberdeenshire town & village articles. I notice that today, the Turriff name has changed from Torraibh to Baile Thurra. This is obviously quite a substantial change, and it's got me a bit suspicious. Are these genuinely names used by the people of Aberdeenshire (I'd say no, having lived there and never heard them), or is somebody just creating literal translations? If so, surely that's a job for the Gaelic version of Wikipedia? Placename translations for other languages are only given where the name used locally is different to the English one; for example Köhn for Cologne. – Kieran T (talk) 15:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The majority of the placenames have not been translated into Gaelic - they are originally Gaelic with the English version being derivative. Personally im uncomfortable with the use of literal Gaelic translations or neologisms for towns or places which are not either in posession of an anglicised Gaelic name or which have a Gaelic name which preceedes any current popular English name. For example Aberdeen is derived from Obar Dheathainn, and Edinburgh was preceeded by and then co-existed with Dùn Èideann and so there is a clear justification for the inclusion of either of those names while an example such as Coldstream and the literal/neological translation an t-Alltan Fuar is far more ambiguous.siarach 17:28, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Newton Wamphray

I just stumbled across an article titled Newton Wamphray. Its definition of the meaning of its place-name is a bit poor, only going so far as to describe the meaning of "Newton", which is hardly rocket science. Does anybody have any info on the meaning of the Wamphray bit, or anything else to add to this stub? – Kieran T (talk) 11:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish Reformation

Scottish Reformation was recently nominated for GA, but I had to fail it due largely to stylistic issues and organization leading to questions about broadness in scope. Since you are the scotland wikiproject, I thought I'd drop by and say that if several of you are capable of doing a good copyedit to it, making sure that it's perhaps a little more thorough as well, it'll probably pass another nomination with flying coloures. Thanatosimii 02:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion

Some talk pages of Scottish articles turn up on Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. At this moment, this includes Talk:Darren Fletcher and Talk:List of monarchs of Scotland. I don't know why, but it may be something in Template:WP Scotland.--Henrygb 01:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi there! I don't know what the problem was, but it apears to have been corrected now. Is it possible for a category to suffer from a delay in updating???? Oh well, don't suppose it matters anymore. Blood red sandman 17:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards

Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 21:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish people article

There has been a long-running dispute over the relevance and sourcing of various claims regarding the genetics of Scottish people, particularly the R1b Y-chromosome hapgroup. Any comment on the talk page would be most welcome.--Nydas(Talk) 11:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Scottish breakfast

Forgive me if this has been raised before. Accordingly with the subject I REALLY do have a big greasy caledonian chip on my shoulder. Surely this is within the remit of Scottish cuisine, not as a byblow of English/UK culturally imperialistic opinion, viz. all the chat about the Scots Tung being a dialect of English. Full English Breakfast surely has its place, (obviously without those dodgy American Hash Browns shewn in the illustration for the so-called English Breakfast :)), But Scotland is the home of the Black pudding, at least in the last hundred or so years, just as Ireland is home to the White pudding, not to mention Scotland's wonderful Square sausage, tattie scone, dumpling, and the recent arrival of haggis as a morning bite.(dubious however, as it's a bit of a "We're different" token). Let's see who has the best coronaries in these islands. I think our menu is far better qualified to stand on its own rather than perch on the back of a Saxon Greasy-spoons menu. Brendandh 00:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I dunno. I find it difficult to get het up about the minor differences between these "national breakfasts". As far as I'm concerned they're all just fry-ups -- and that includes the North American variants. In any good hotel the fact that this one includes herring and that one includes pancakes is more a matter of what the customer asked for than anything else. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:46, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Categories for discussion

Please would people have a look here and post their thoughts, I think there should be more of a Caledonian influence on this one . Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 January 18#Category:Straths and glens Cheers Brendandh 08:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Battle of the Somme FAR

Battle of the Somme has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:18, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] District questions

Is there a district of Glasgow actualy called St George's Cross? What is it named after? Simply south 21:59, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clan Fraser

Hello everyone, as some of you may have noticed, I've basically written the Clan Fraser article all by me lonesome (that's actually true; I would avoid claiming it if I could), and I would love some input as to how I (or others!) could improve the article. I wonder if I should go about this by requesting a Peer Review? I'm completely knew at actually attempting to gain status (sush as GA or FA) for articles, and I'd love whatever input I can get from y'all knowledgeable and generous fellow Scots. Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png Canæn Image:Icons-flag-scotland.png 05:59, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Order of the Thistle FAR

Order of the Thistle has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. LuciferMorgan 22:06, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dispute regarding treaties relevant to the formation of the United Kingdom

There is currently a dispute going on at the Template talk:UKFormation which regard the inclusion of treaties specific to England within the template which aims to display the treaties leading to the formation of the United Kingdom i.e. the Union of Parliaments and Union of Crowns before that. Comment upon the dispute is needed so that a consensus may be reached. siarach 04:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Scotland/Assessment

Volunteers needed! Please sign up at:

A User has just requested an assessment of our Aberdeen article. Ta. --Mais oui! 18:28, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:SCOWNB WP:SCO etc. - Spring cleaning

Please see relevant discussion at:
--Mais oui! 08:09, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

As noted there I intend to merge the essentially duplicate lists of participants at WP:SCOWNB and here, and close the latter. Your support and assistance is appreciated, your comments are welcome. As it may be a lengthy exercise it might occur in stages. Ben MacDui (Talk) 21:29, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Representative peer FAR

Representative peer has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:12, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New infoboxes

A new infobox has been developed for use on UK places articles. If you have any concerns or appraisals, please make them at Template talk:Infobox UK place. Regards, Jhamez84 02:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I have already made it plain that I do not support the dropping of the historic county field, but my objections have been ignored. If this is supposed to replace the existing templates it absolutely needs to provide the same information as the previous ones or a lot of editors are going to be very annoyed. Owain (talk) 14:00, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Consensus can change. It has. consensus has been assessed three times in response to your complaints, and in each case, the new consensus was not to your liking.  DDStretch  (talk) 14:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Aren't there already templates for Scottish places? Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 17:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
My understanding of what is going on here is hazy but I believe someone has designed a new infobox in the hope it may become a standardised UK one and that there is a 'roll-out' replacement of the Scottish template going on. I suggested it might be helpful to have this clarified here but the only response so far is the above. Ben MacDui (Talk) 17:54, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
The first message invites people to comment at Template talk:Infobox UK place. I did not devise the new template, though I have been active in discussing it, and I did get some changes made in the information it contained by engaging the principal authors of it in debate and discussion. As you can see from the second and third message under this subject heading, some changes were not viewed as being a good thing and not adopted (by means of 3 separate procedures to gain consensus.) My own feeling is that the new template is a great improvement over the old one, but I accept that others may not share this view. The new template is quite flexible, and I do encourage all who have the time to go to the template's talk page and read about it and comment, even if they ultimately think that after consideration it is not a good development.  DDStretch  (talk) 19:03, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The UK infobox has all the functionality of the Scottish version and more. It retains a Scotland specific map, options for Scots and other minority (forgive me please) languages, and retains the Scottish arrangements for governance and land division! There are no plans for a UK flag here either.

It may be that this infobox has other features such as distances from Edinburgh, and does not infringe upon the status of any part of the UK! This infobox brings with it increased compatibilty, flexibility and consistency for wider Wikipedia place articles, and is less susceptible to content hijacking and forking. Jhamez84 19:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox flag straw poll

Hello fellow editors. A straw poll has opened today (27th March 2007) regarding the use of flags on the United Kingdom place infoboxes. There are several potential options to use, and would like as many contrubutors to vote on which we should decide upon. The straw poll is found here. If joining the debate, please keep a cool head and remain civil. We look forward to seeing you there. Jhamez84 11:37, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

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