Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sailor Moon/Archive 02

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[edit] Character bios proposal

Here is how I suggest the character articles be divided up. Mostly it's the same as before, but not entirely

Protagonists (only two changes suggested here):

  • Individually, the 10 major senshi--Usagi, Ami, Rei, Makoto, Minako, Setsuna, Michiru, Haruka, Hotaru, Chibiusa
  • Mamoru
  • Queen Serenity
  • Sailor Starlights / Three Lights (one article)
  • Princess Kakyuu
  • Sailor Cosmos
  • Chibichibi (her own article, not combined with Cosmos or Galaxia)
  • Individually, the cats: Luna, Artemis, and Diana
  • Elios/Pegasus (who does not currently have his own article)

Minor characters:

I propose splitting this off into two Minor pages: one for civilians, and one for minor senshi and related characters. The latter would include characters such as Phobos and Deimos, Guardian Cosmos (who currently has her own article), Channel and Guccicci, the fairy in the Moon ruins (manga), etc.

Villains:

This, more than anything else, has been a point of contention in the past. I propose this.

Each season/arc would get its own page for that category of villains. Included in these pages would be a description of the group's origin and motives. This page would also include sections for only the uppermost leader (who, strangely, tends to be the least well-developed) as well as the current class of monster-of-the-day.

Then, sub-leaders (where relevant) get their own articles. Villains that come in teams get one team article. The result is a fairly tidy article set that looks like this:

  • Dark Kingdom (also Queen Metallia, youma)
    • Queen Beryl
    • Shitennou (Jadeite, Nephrite, Zoisite, Kunzite)
  • Makaiju/Doom Tree (also Ail and Ann, cardians)
  • Planet Nemesis (also Wiseman/Death Phantom, droids(?))
    • Black Moon Clan (Rubeus, Esmeraude, Saphir, Demande)
      • Ayakashi Sisters (Cooan, Beruche, Calaveras, Petz)
    • Black Lady would be a part of the 'Other Forms' section of Chibiusa's article
  • Death Busters (also Pharaoh 90, daimon)
    • Professor Tomoe
    • Kaolinite
    • Witches 5 (Eudial, Mimete, Tellu, Viluy, Cyprine/Ptilol
    • Mistress 9 (who is not the same person as Hotaru)
  • Dead Moon Circus (also Zirconia, Zircon, and lemures)
    • Neherenia
    • Amazon Trio
    • Amazoness Quartet
  • Shadow Galactica (Chaos, phages)
    • Galaxia
    • Animamates (Iron Mouse, Aluminum Siren, Lead Crow, Tin Nyanko)

Movie characters:

I think characters like Peruru, Snow Kaguya, Fiore, etc. should only be included within their movie pages. The SuperS movie already does this, and it works well.

Questionable:

One thing I can't decide on at all is, where do we classify characters like Heavy Metal Pappilon, Chi and Phi, Lethe and Mnemosyne?

Okay! That's all I can think of. ^^ Thanks everyone! Please share your thoughts! --Masamage 04:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd also like to see an arc summary on the main villain page - 'Dark Kingdom', 'Black Moon Clan', 'Death Busters' and 'Dead Moon Circus'. Something similar to what's on the Sailor Stars page. - Malkinann 10:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Mm, I agree there should be an arc summary, but it's kinda unintuitive to put it in the villains page; then what you're describing would move from the Sailor Stars article to the Shadow Galactica article. But if each season had its own page (like Stars) does, that would be a fantastic place for it. --Masamage 17:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
The Animamates that did not appear in the anime can be listed with the ones that did, only in a special "Manga only" section. Just a thought... --SaturnYoshi 14:48, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Good idea! I like it. ^_^ --Masamage 17:17, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I like it, Though I the fact that other than a mention on one or two pages, that senshi like Demios and Phebios are getting no regintion. Though breif, they all played inportent roles in the version they come from. off the top of my head i can think of Deimos Phebos and buttress, Shrine of little known senshi would be a great place to start gathering info on the "missing" Senshi, be they good or evil.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 20:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
They would be good in either Sailor Mars' page or the List of minor Sailor Moon characters. I don't know who "Buttress" is, but I think we're doing a much better job covering other obscure characters (especially at the Shadow Galactica page) these days. --Masamage 20:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Music?

Could we get some music (I'm thinking of Moonlight Destiny) from www.sailormusic.net to put on the Sailor Moon media page (and indeed, Sailor Moon itself) as per Wikipedia:Music samples? - Malkinann 09:13, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

How about the title theme "Moonlight Densetsu (Legend)" instead? -SaturnYoshi 10:11, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

That's the one - I can't spell Densetsu with any consistency.  :$ - Malkinann 10:27, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I thought that perhaps that was the song you were refering to, but I wasn't sure as they also have a song titled "Moonlight Destiny". I believe it was in one of the movies. -SaturnYoshi 11:24, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Are we allowed to do that? --Masamage 16:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Question two: should the profiles have a "Music" section, for the stuff on CDs? I could see that going either way, so I'd like to become a firm believer in one side or the other. :) --Masamage 16:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

It's within WP:FU to include a brief sound clip of a song for demonstration purposes. I think it's done somewhere on Air (anime). I'm not exactly sure of the legnth, but I think it maybe 45 seconds.
CDs can be moved to a "media and release information" article or, if there are enough, we can make a CD info page... (But do we really want to write articles on the 200 or so Sailor Moon CDs? I think the musical CDs are already included at Seramyu, though.) --Kunzite 17:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
That sounds good, then!
As for the CDs, I've always thought that the current Sailor Moon media and release information article was incongruously named, since it's actually an episode list. If we moved its contents to an anime article and replaced it with a CD article, that would make a lot of sense.
However, what I was really asking is, should individual profiles contain information about the Senshi's Image Songs, CD singles, etc? These have been added to the Ami Mizuno/template article as well as Haruka Tenoh. On the one hand, if those are to be mentioned at all, that's a good place for it. On the other, it might be considered fancrufty--there's so much info about it that we might be better off just linking to one of the many excellent websites devoted to the subject. --Masamage 18:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
For characters with a lot of songs (such as the Inner senshi and Tux boy), I've limited my music additions only to songs that the character primarily sings and their major themes. My reasoning is that such info directly relates to the character itself and often ties into the character's "personality." Seiya's single, for example, is about his one-sided love for Usagi. For more minor characters, I'm more complete and mention songs where they do background vocals (such as Sailor Theta). I try not to be overly detailed, such as including album info, since that material is best supplied by other sites (I agree with Masamage that it should be kept from being too crufty).
In my opinion, a music section is most important for the musicals, since there aren't many web pages out there that really identify the main senshi themes and songs from the musicals (even Sera-Myu is a bit disorganized on this). Mentioning them there is also a very relevant and simple way to make a reader aware of the Seramyu productions and maybe spark interest, especially since describing how characters are in the musicals would often be redundant with the anime and manga profiles. My other point is that I think these Wiki pages may soon become a main source of SM info for newcomers to the series, since many of the SM sites I used to visit back in the late 90's no longer exist and the show's web presence is dwindling with age. So these Wiki pages should include info that a total new guy might find useful. Music is one of those, since it helps that person track down songs of his or her favorite senshi. Xuanwu 22:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Wow, well argued. I'm sold. ^^ I like the location, too, right over the 'Actresses' section for the main senshi. In grouping pages (Sailor Animamates, etc.), I think it's probably best to have one shared Music section. And I'd still love to see a proper Music page, but that doesn't preclude this. If no one else objects over the next few days, I say go for it! If you could, add them to the rest of the Senshi profiles before any of the other characters; that'll keep 'em nice and tied together. And thanks again! :D --Masamage 23:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moonlight Densetsu sample

I'm trying to get the hang of this Audacity thingie, but it seems that we're allowed 17.3 seconds of Moonlight Densetsu (10% of a two minute 53 second recording). Does anyone have any idea as to which 17.3 seconds of Moonlight Densetsu would be good? the first ones don't even get into the vocals.  :( - Malkinann 12:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the 17.3 seconds just when the vocals start? That at least gets us through the first verse. (Shame to miss that tasty intro, though...) --Masamage 22:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Should we include an English Opener clip too?Lego3400: The Sage of Time 14:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Nein! Nein! Absolument pas!!! --  Denelson83  16:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Uggggh. I feel roughly the same.
But...it might be appropriate for the English versions article, since it can be compared to the original version. Or maybe not. But, I mean...as long as I never have to listen to it... >___< --Masamage 20:33, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate structure proposal

I've been thinking about it, and there are two ways we might structure the plot discussions. (I'm ignoring the issues of the musicals and PGSM for now; they'll fall under whatever we decide here.)

  • Philosophy 1: Plot-coverage structure should be based on story arc. Therefore we would have articles for: Sailor Moon, Sailor Moon R/Black Moon, Sailor Moon S/Infinity, Sailor Moon SuperS/Dream, and Sailor Stars. These articles would contain the basic plot for each arc, and would compare and contrast the anime and manga versions. A Sailor Moon (anime) and Sailor Moon (manga) page would still need to exist to cover TV specials, side stories, etc.

Philosophy 2: Plot-coverage structure should be based on metaseries. Therefore we would have only the Sailor Moon (anime) and Sailor Moon (manga) pages. Each would have subcategories for each arc and would explain them fully within the context of that metaseries. When significant divergences arise, each article could just reference the other for that side of the story.

Until now I've mostly been a supporter of Philosophy 1, but the more I think about it, the better an idea Philosophy 2 seems. It's so tidy! It's so concise! It's so easy to navigate! It's so easy to cross-reference--especially once it becomes brilliant prose. I think the Sailor Moon corner of Wikipedia is more likely to become filled with featured article quality--including friendliness to those only vaguely interested--if we adopt this kind of organization.

So I put this question forth, and I sincerely hope that everybody who reads this will vote one way or the other, or suggest another philosophy. Please--no changing the subject! Bring up other issues somewhere else. This is very important if we want to keep moving forward with things.

Philosophy 1 or Philosophy 2? --Masamage 05:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I actually prefer Philosophy 1. I think it would be easier if each arc was seperate, and stating the differences between the anime and the manga. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 05:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Slight beef with Philosophy 1. There are manga and anime, and the manga arcs came FIRST before the anime. The fluctuation between anime and manga fans has drastically changed over time. So I would like to propose a more generic name for them, and then do redirects from the anime and manga series/arcs. There are more versions than just the anime and the pages should reflect all versions eventually. It will make it easier to organize. Other than that I like Philosophy 1. I'm slowly working out the kinks of putting in more manga info, so I'd like all versions to be able to be equally represented. Believe me it polarizes on who likes what and what they expect over time and fan fights can be avoided with a more generic name. Like Sailor Moon Series/Arc 1. Then list the pertaining names underneath and maybe some links to the staff, and other info in addition to the summaries or whatever.
That's a lot of why I like Philosophy 2 so much. There's no reason to treat the anime and manga like the same thing; they have many similarities, but they also have extremely fundamental differences. Of course, the second philosophy would result in a lot of repitition of information... Which I tend to hate...
Let's see. If we do use the first philosophy, I would vote against using a generic name for the plot arcs. Not only is the third series not actually titled "Arc 3," but no one calls it that, either--besides which, in the anime it's actually Arc 4 because of the Makaiju stuff. I would suggest going by the anime series titles, because those are most common names, not only among fans but in the metaseries itself--video games and musicals both use these conventions too. We'll use redirects (darned wonderful things) to get the manga names involved, and the lead can say something similar to this:
"Sailor Moon S is the most common name for the third major story arc in the Sailor Moon metaseries. The "S" in the title stands for "Super," and this arc name is used primarily in the anime. It is called Infinity in the manga."
Then we can go on to say that the arc is characterized by the first appearance of the Outer Senshi, as well as the involvement of the Death Busters villain group and the achieving of Sailor Moon's Super form. Actually, maybe we should work on the Sailor Stars article and get that to the way we want things, then make the others based upon that.
Maybe I'm starting to turn back to Philosophy 1 after all. Each article can begin by talking about the plot in the general terms shared by anime and manga, then branch off into anime and manga sections to finish the thing off. We'd still keep the Sailor Moon (anime) and Sailor Moon (manga) articles to discuss production and sidestories, and use the appropriate arc names to link to the new pages.
Does this sort of thing sound good? --Masamage 17:43, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Philosophy 1. Philosophy 2 sounds like it might simply be too large to be a good article. Also, it's standard Wiki convention for major anime series to separate story arcs into different articles. I also agree with your organization: common elements, then differences with the manga version leading off (since it came first). Senshi articles should probably also be like this: common elements to the senshi in both anime and manga, then contrast them with manga being first, except when the differences are striking, such as with Sailor Starlights where I separated manga and anime versions because of the huge difference. Xuanwu 19:45, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I tweaked the lead of Sailor Stars. Does that look like something we want to emulate? If so, we can move on and awesomeify the plot section. --Masamage 07:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually there is a problem with using the most common names for the arc titles. That is one and only guideline on the Anime Project which means that we will be excluding all subsequent articles from being EVER featured. This rule is that the one that comes FIRST is the one that gets mentioned in the article. It's NOT the one that's most popular. So if you *have* to unite them by a name, you have to conform and se the manga arcs. Not the most popular one, unless you'd like to exclude all articles ever written in that category from ever having a chance of being featured. I fixed that beef with several other articles within the Sailor Moon Hierarchy, so we should keep that in mind, or even add it to the rules. That whatever is addressed inside of articles including titles are addressed in the order created. This will help us at least get up to a GA grade from our B grade. This is why I advocate a generic name if we are to do Philosophy 1. However, Philosophy 2 has it's perks--which are exactly that you can combine the episode list with the general article and then the same with the manga--general info about the series and then figure out how to place the comparisons between the two. I'm slowly adding manga info and I'd like to start the Sailor Moon Manga articles soon. I'm putting up a proposal. --Hitsuji Kinno 20:36, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
What guideline are you talking about? --Masamage 23:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Looking it over, I've decided you probably mean Content guideline #3, which states, "Article introductions should be primarily about the first format of a work (usually manga) and not about the most popular format of that work (usually anime). For example: Bleach is a manga series, that was later adapted into an anime series", NOT Bleach is an anime series, based on a manga of the same name." Okay, so far so good; that's what we're working toward.
Then there's this, which I'm guessing was your point: "In cases where title disambiguation is necessary, a similar guideline should be followed." What I get from that is that when you can't name your animanga article Bleach (for the obvious reason), you should name it Bleach (manga), not Bleach (anime).
But I don't think I agree that that has application here. We're not working with title disambiguation; I'm not sure what to call what we're working with. Maybe we should ask the WP:Anime people what they think. --Masamage 18:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll second that motion to ask them. I'd don't want anything obscuring our way to a Featured article. *evil laugh* We will spread the sailormoon madness uhh... *love* to everyone. --Hitsuji Kinno 05:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Done. The first person says common usage, but we'll see if anyone else chimes in. --Masamage 18:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
'Kay, looks like the only response we're gonna get. Meanwhile, I've found some guidelines on article series: subsidiary articles and precision. Both say that using the most common name is okay. So with that and a lack of uproar from the WP:Anime people, I think we can safely say that naming the articles after the anime seasons will not result in a failure to produce FAs. --Masamage 18:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Codename wa Sailor V

How much of Sailor V falls under our jurisdisction? All of it? Only that which is needed for SM? Also Should we include Sailor V items on the Sailor Moon item list since they are from the same universe? Lego3400: The Sage of Time 18:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd say keep 'em separate. So far, I've just put anything that was in Sailor V without being in Sailor Moon in the Sailor V article, and included that article in our scope. --Masamage 18:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manga Summaries

We have 2 choices. There is list it by individual act 1, or list it by volume 2.

The first option is to list is to list it by acts. Here are the advantages I can think of.

  1. The summaries can be longer, important plot points can be listed out, use of new attacks within the volume (though I think this is repetitious.)
  2. More coverage space on differences between original, shinzoubon and TP version.
  3. Details about style changes, shifts in art, and so on.
  4. Consistency with the anime formatting.


I advocate choice 2 and here's Why.

  1. The summary of the volume can be put at the top with the ISBN numbers.
  2. It's clear what acts belong to what volume on the page.
  3. There are no issues with changing directors or large changes of staff like the anime episodes. Notable mentions like Miwa Ueda who did Peach Girl being mentioned in the volume can be addressed within the summary of the volume.
  4. Any clear changes from the original to the shinzoubon or the Tokyopop version can be easily addressed (I have all of both plus all of the TP ones)
  5. It forces the summaries of the acts to be short.
  6. The most a volume has is 5 acts max. Whereas a series as would be done with the anime has up to 52 at a time.
  7. You can see how to story connects without too much repetition which is more important for the manga than the anime, since many of the stories ar not self-contained.
  8. 18 pages is a lot easier to manage rather than 52 + 10 (the acts).

If anyone wants to argue for one over the other go ahead.

The formatting would be like this-- Volume # (box for summary of volume including original (first) and shinzoubon second or later on when that's covered) cover, cut the TP cover or place it down where in context, ISBN number, etc. Template should be made for this.).

General overview of the Volume, what arc it falls in, major events shifts in art style from previous volumes, Major differences between versions perhaps that can't be covered in the act break down.

Act # Act Summary Shinzoubon Version TP version (minutia that was made in changes.)

Repeat latter as necessary.

Arcs are to be covered on the pertaining summary page. Since volumes are not clear cut as the anime on which acts belong to what parts, I still advocate the second choice.

Manga version is also very important which is why I'm shifting things within the articles a bit more so there is less blending between manga and anime. The Anime Project specifies that those things should be clear and separate. And in our case Manga should be listed FIRST because it was the first thing to be created, not by popularity. (Because popularity of those forms can drastically shift as I've seen with this fandom over the years.) Since our goal is featuring, I'm trying really hard to separate those things and put it in the correct order.

I *have* most of the content for the volume/act summaries from doing an extensive Sailor Moon Manga FAQ cleared by Ken Aromdee and Stuart Levy and Alex Glover. So that's not an issue (Sources as well). Most the rest of the stuff is stuck in my head. So I just need to know which format to go with, and I'll leave other people to do the front page stuff. I would also advocate a template for these things. --Hitsuji Kinno 21:05, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Whoa, individual manga subpages. That's not something I had thought about, and I find it a little jarring. --Masamage 22:58, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Coming back to this after some time, I still find it uncomfortable. I just don't think we're ready to be incorporating that kind of detail, which is a lot of why I stopped working on the episode summaries after establishing a template. We don't even have the basic plot coverage set up yet; the usual process with all WP articles is to start big, and only make smaller spinoff articles when the small details outgrow their surroundings.
Your manga expertise is invaluable, but I think the project needs that in a different place right now. In particular, I would love it if you could find some time to hit the Sailor Stars article and get that up to speed, as dicussed above: shared plot first, then manga differences, then anime differences. It doesn't need to be exceedingly specific, but we do need some; I've seen the whole anime, but have only superficial knowledge of the manga. It's clear you could be a wonderful help with that. --Masamage 18:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
I did a very, very quick rough. (emphasis on rough), I followed somewhat of the same format that was in the character profiles, by putting the differences section at the end of the article and organized information a bit, fleshed out sections, and left a few notea. The span of what episodes the whole series covers would be good info to add as well. Source Hitoshi Doi. I'm trying to get through the character profiles, but I'm hitting several major snags along the way... for example, the list of stats is mixed from the manga, anime, dub, toy boxes, etc And some of them are plain made up, or taken from a game book... I know which ones are which, but I'm not sure how to untangle them in such a way that would make sense. >.<;; I want to take out the made up ones and slap sources on them, but it needs extensive revision to do so... >.<;; Headaches. Then several of the profiles aren't formatted properly, particularly Chibiusa and Mamoru... Usagi was easy compared to that. So if there are other sections that just need some manga info I can sort those out and then we can try to get the format on the profiles sorted for version info since most of the basic info is there. This might upgrade them to GA if we also cite sources and familiarize ourselves with how to do so. --Hitsuji Kinno 07:13, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
We've picked out a source for the stats sections, actually; I just forgot about it 'til now. :P So, thanks! And don't worry, I'll take care of that. I have an idea of how it might be done. I know how to cite sources, and I've been slowly working on it. It's pretty easy to figure out if you look at the edit source for other articles that do it; look at Silver Millennium for how I've been doing it. --Masamage 17:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mamoru Chiba Template

I fixed the template, but I had to delete a lot of info in the process. I'll be adding it back in later this afternoon. And making episode notes, guides, and also adding back in various facts and info to be referenced and taking out the extraneous plot info. I won't be insulted if someone does it ahead of me. Just remember to format it loosely as manga first, then anime, then general commonalities. It will cut down the work I'll have to do later. =P P.S. Chibiusa is going to come next. I'm formatting it by FORMS and not PLOTLINES. This is just a heads up, rather than a detailed discussion.--Hitsuji Kinno 16:20, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Check. ^^ It looks good; most of what you took out can be reintroduced into the Profile section. When things get too plot-specific, put them in the Talk page for later inclusion in the arc articles.
One correction: in other areas consensus seems to have been to list commonalities first, then divergences. I think that's a very important distinction.
Thanks for the hard work! --Masamage 17:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Since it fits to template, is it OK to remove that tag and say it just needs some tweaking and clean up? --Hitsuji Kinno 19:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler Placements

This is probably very, very picky, but the spoiler placements on the pages are not consistent... I would like to put them in the exact same place with the same kind of spoiler warning so people know where to place the spoilers and when not to.--Hitsuji Kinno 03:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More Citation Stuff

After this character cleanup thing, I think we should go back to the articles and do citations.

For a working example of this: Shinigami (Bleach)

See how they did it?

The div class for the references and then the references tags, then within the body they have references. (see Modified Souls on the aforementioned page) I'd think this would be the next pressing thing to address. Once the profiles have references then we can sort out what needs to be added, altered more until we get to at least GA from a B. This will help to iron out a framework for what needs to be done on the other articles.--Hitsuji Kinno 03:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shrine Links in Profiles

How are we determining that these links are *that* special that they need to stay? Looking over the links I don't see any one link that is famous for being a shrine. Even for Rei, who had a shrine that started the fan term "shrine" that shrine is not listed. So I'd like to know how we are going to cull these links (specific type of links). Most of them seem to me to be aded by the owner or people who just like the shrine, but haven't verified the info, etc. --Hitsuji Kinno 15:33, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chibiusa

Reformatted it and added back some info. Heads up, please discuss at Talk page. --Hitsuji Kinno 15:34, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hero Boxes

Until we get our own chacter boxes, the major villans need heroboxes. Also The Sailor Quarttoo also need hero boxs and idivedual pics of both senshi and villan forms.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

Right, so people don't cite their sources, so I did tons, and tons of leg work and went in and added this: ==References== <div class="references-small"> <references /> </div> <!-- ==External Links== ==See Also== -->

Seeing as most pages needed an example to do so, I took the liberty of adding Hitoshi Doi to most of the Seiyuu, granted, not all, but most So people could see how the referencing works. It's not perfect by a long shot since I still left some of the linked references at the bottom. Here's a rough for what that should look like:

  • <ref>{{cite web |url= http://www.tcp.com/doi/smoon/ |title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon |accessdate= October 6, 2006 |last= Doi |first= Hitoshi }}</ref>
  • <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 18 |chapter= Act 52 |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= April 4, 1997; December 10, 1998 |id= ISBN 4-06-178858-2}}</ref>
  • <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Materials Collection |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |year= 1999 |month= October |id= ISBN 4-06-324521-7}}</ref>

These go AFTER the section you want to cite. So for example, Chibiusa's name was given to her by Mamoru (citation). It will show properly at the bottom of the page. Don't forget to copy-paste the ref section too. Since I took the liberty of adding the references section with the div tags to all the pages it should automatically show up in the references section.

The first is obviously a website, the second is how all references to acts should be made, the third is how the artbooks should be referenced. ISBN numbers can be found for the artbooks on the Sailor Moon page, while the volume ISBNs can be found.. if someone doesn't cough them up, I'll list them out here until we get a section made for it. At this point I should say we don't have any excuses anymore. I've done a lot of formatting clean up as I was going thrugh the pages. The only trouble seem to be pages dedicated to multiple characters, however, I'm about to propose a structure for this to streamline it a bit and conform with the original template.

I would ask for serious help on retrieving references for these pages. I can't do it alone, even with Masamage. Most of the references are already there, they just have to be placed properly within the Sailor Moon pages structure. Even if you don't have the original retrieval date, please, please add the current date that you changed it around. If you are missing info, such as updats, cut it out. --Hitsuji Kinno 20:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Holy my goodness, you're scary. :D In a good way. --Masamage 00:42, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manga ISBN's (for referencing)

Here are the ISBNs. This can be deleted once the page is up. This is so no one has an excuse for not putting any sort of volume citation up. I'll find the TV citation and add it to this section next.

Artbooks:

  • Original Picture Collection Volume I, ISBN 4-06-324507-1, August 1994.
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon Volume I Original Picture Collection |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= August 1994 |id= ISBN 4-06-324507-1}}</ref>
  • Original Picture Collection Volume II, ISBN 4-06-324508-X, August 1994.
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon Volume II Original Picture Collection |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= August 1994 |id= ISBN 4-06-324508-X}}</ref>
  • Original Picture Collection Volume III, ISBN 4-06-324518-7, September 1996.
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon Volume III Original Picture Collection |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 1996 |id= ISBN 4-06-324518-7}}</ref>
  • Original Picture Collection Volume IV, ISBN 4-06-324519-5, September 1996.
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon Volume IV Original Picture Collection |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 1996 |id= ISBN ISBN 4-06-324519-5}}</ref>
  • Original Picture Collection Volume V, ISBN 4-06-324522-5, August 1997.
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon Volume V Original Picture Collection |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= August 1997 |id= ISBN 4-06-324522-5}}</ref>

Note: Official English name is Pretty Sailor Solider Sailor Moon Volume # Original Picture Collection from the back of the book.

  • Materials Collection, ISBN 4-06-324521-7, September 1999.
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailormoon Volume V Original Picture Collection |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 1999 |id= ISBN 4-06-324521-7}}</ref>

Note: Why I added the artbooks to this list is because I'm fundamentally lazy. This also makes it super easy for anyone to reference a certain artbook by a method of copy-paste.

Original Volumes:

  • Volume 1
    • ISBN 4-06-178721-7
    • Contains Acts 1-5
    • July 6, 1992, September 5, 1996
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 1 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= July 6, 1992, September 5, 1996 |id= ISBN 4-06-178721-7}}</ref>
      • Act 1 Usagi (hiragana) Sailormoon- Usagi, Motoki, Ikuko, Haruna, Naru, Umino, Mamoru, Tuxedo Mask, Shingo, Jadite are introduced. Concept of Sailor V per the SM universe rules is introduced.
      • Act 2 Ami (kanji) Sailormercury (one word, in caps in the original)- Ami is introduced, Sailor Kick and the Disguise pen enter here as well. (the stat about Ami being 14, first mention of her bloodtype and the bit about her IQ being 300 start here too.)
      • Act 3 Rei (katakana) Sailormars (one word, romaji)- Beryl, and the other generals are introduced. Rei (of course) the crows Phobos and Deimos (named), Rei's grandfather (who has a mustache in the manga and one throw away line that may have led to the lecherous anime version, Akurou Taisan, Mamoru as 18 and going to a pretigious school wearing glasses, Usagi asa Stewardess, Death of Jaeite (by capturing with the moon frisbee which has a hole in the center, the pecking by Phobos and Deimos, and then use of Akurou Taisan by Sailor Mars.
      • Act 4 Masquerade- Introduction to Kenji--Usagi's father, Princess Di, and the concept of what the yojma physically does, disguise pen turns into an umbrella, new attack for Sailor Moon with new tiara, Usagi's first kiss,
      • Act 5 Makoto (hiragana) Sailorjupiter- Introduction to Sailor Jupiter, Flower Hurricane and the Lightning are introduced, the real bridal shop is closed though. (Flower Hurricane as it appear in the manga was echoed similarly in the anime by Tuxedo mask when he threw a circle of roses and they look very similar to the flower Hurricane attack sequence).
  • Volume 2
    • ISBN 4-06-178731-4
    • Contains Acts 6-9
    • September 6, 1992, April 6, 1996
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 6, 1992, April 6, 1996 |id= ISBN 4-06-178731-4}}</ref>
      • Act 6 Tuxedo Kamen (katakana and kanji) Tuxedo Mask (english, with a space) - Moon stick is given (no official name), Zoisite and Kunsite work together to find the Maboroshi no Ginzuishou. Watch appears (belonging to Tuxedo Mask, broken... an object that appears in all three and looks drastically different in ll three series.)
      • Act 7 Chiba Mamoru (kanji) Tuxedo Mask (english) Death and first and last and only showing of Mamoru's parents in the whole of the meta series. Revealing of identities between Usagi and Mamoru. (plenty of indication before this that they were liking each other such as blushing), Introduction to Metallia. Sailor V's stats. (Incidentally this was origially the first act, but it was redone to be made into act 7 instead of 1 and then the manga was redone over with Usagi as the lead. (parts of the end of it)
      • Act 8 Minako (kanji) SailorV (no space, capital V) (part of original lead act, redone to fit to usagi), Sailor Moon kisses Tuxedo Mask willingly and conscious. (Supreme Thunder is named)
      • Act 9 Selenity (katakana) Princess (English) Death of Tuxedo Mask, Usagi turns into princess Selenity, saves his life inadvertantly, (slight Dali influence with the watch), Past lives, first view of Beryl, not as Queen, (she does have a swoord), Death of Endymion before Selenity, appearance of Maboroshi no Ginzuishou from tear, only showing of actually doing odango in any of the series.
      • Back has some stuff about how Takeuchi likes Doujinshi and the reference for the Image Gemstones first appearance and first showing of the original designs she had in mind for the costumes.
  • Volume 3
    • ISBN 4-06-178744-6
    • Contains Acts 10-12
    • April 6, 1993
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 3 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= April 6, 1993 |id= ISBN 4-06-178744-6}}</ref>
  • Volume 4
    • ISBN 4-06-178753-5
    • Contains Acts 13-16
    • July 6, 1993, March 5, 1995
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 4 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= July 6, 1993, March 5, 1995 |id= 4-06-178753-5 }}</ref>
  • Volume 5
    • ISBN 4-06-178764-0
    • Contains Acts 17-19 + (Chibiusa Picture Diary (Vampire one))
    • November 6, 1993, July 5, 1995
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= November 6, 1993, July 5, 1995 |id= ISBN 4-06-178764-0 }}</ref>
  • Volume 6
    • ISBN 4-06-178772-1
    • Contains Acts 20-21
    • April 5, 1994
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 6 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= April 5, 1994 |id= ISBN 4-06-178772-1}}</ref>
  • Volume 7
    • ISBN 4-06-178781-0
    • Contains Acts 23-24
    • July 6, 1994
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 7 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= July 6, 1994 |id= ISBN 4-06-178781-0}}</ref>
  • Volume 8
    • ISBN 4-06-178790-X
    • Contains Acts 25-28
    • November 2, 1994
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 8 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= November 2, 1994 |id= ISBN 4-06-178790-X}}</ref>
  • Volume 9
    • ISBN 4-06-178797-7
    • Contains Acts 29-32
    • February 6, 1995
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 9 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= February 6, 1995 |id= ISBN 4-06-178797-7}}</ref>
  • Volume 10
    • ISBN 4-06-178806-X
    • Contains Acts 33 + Chibiusa Picture Diary (the one with Vega)
    • June 6, 1995
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 10 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= June 6, 1995 |id= ISBN 4-06-178806-X}}</ref>
  • Volume 11
    • ISBN 4-06-178809-4
    • Contains Lover of Princess Kaguya and Casablanca Memories
    • July 6, 1995, August 8, 1995
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 11 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= July 6, 1995, August 8, 1995 |id= ISBN 4-06-178809-4 }}</ref>
  • Volume 12
    • ISBN 4-06-178814-0
    • Contains Acts 34-36
    • September 6, 1995
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 12 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 6, 1995 |id= ISBN 4-06-178814-0 }}</ref>
  • Volume 13
    • ISBN 4-06-178820-5
    • Contains Acts 37-38 + (all three Exam Battles)
    • December 6, 1995, April 5, 1996
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 13 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= |id= ISBN 4-06-178820-5 }}</ref>
  • Volume 14
    • ISBN 4-06-178826-4
    • Contains Acts 39-40
    • March 6, 1996
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 14 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= March 6, 1996 |id= ISBN 4-06-178826-4}}</ref>
  • Volume 15
    • ISBN 4-06-178835-3
    • Contains Acts 41-42 + Chibiusa Picture Diary (dentist one)
    • July 5, 1996
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 15 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= July 5, 1996 |id= ISBN 4-06-178835-3 }}</ref>
  • Volume 16
    • ISBN 4-06-178841-8
    • Contains Acts 43-45
    • September 6, 1996
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 16 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 6, 1996 |id= ISBN 4-06-178841-8 }}</ref>
  • Volume 17
    • ISBN 4-06-178849-3
    • Contains Acts 46-48 + (Chibiusa Picture Diary Hammer Price Shrine)
    • December 6, 1996
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 17 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= December 6, 1996 |id= ISBN 4-06-178849-3}}</ref>
  • Volume 18
    • ISBN 4-06-178858-2
    • Contains Acts 49-52
    • April 4, 1997, December 10, 1998
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 18 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= April 4, 1997, December 10, 1998 |id= ISBN ISBN 4-06-178858-2 }}</ref>

Shinzoubon/Renewal Volumes: (Shinzoubon [literally meaning new volumes] is what Kodansha officially labels it and Renewal is what it's labeled by Takeuchi in the Punch! strips.)

Note that the separation on the acts is different and the splitting is more frequent, so the number of acts may seem to be higher. There was also a lot of resplitting. Don't cite these unless you really, really have to, such as for comparison, or if you know a fact that was changed for the shinzoubon that was not in the original

  • Volume 1
    • ISBN 4-06-334776-1
    • Contains Acts 1-6
    • September 22, 2003
    • example: <ref name="Shinvol1">{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 1 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 22, 2003 |id= ISBN 4-06-334776-1}}</ref>
      • Notable Fixes: Chapter Listings was added. (It was cut/missed in the original volume 1) New stickers, take out of liner notes and back notes, new images, color image of first page (since it was originally in color for the magazine, but not the manga). New cover, (front, back and flap art), new sign (pink), cut of Intro Act 1 page. Division between the first page and second page of the manga (which creates a different artistic effect, creating a less busy feel), changes of symbols (for example puff of steam was made into a star), redrawing of Sailor V poster. Redoing of screentone, redoing of objects, such as the moon compact. redrawing of transformation sequence, (significant change there, definite anime influence), redrawing of attack sequence, adding of SD figures. Use of computer effects (particularly for objects that needed to be repeated over and over, probably vectors) The most notable thing about the Shinzoubon is that the further into the manga you get the less and less changes are made. What's done on Act 1, is much, much heavier than subsequent acts. The only exception is the one where she did 54 pages and didn't remember doing them according to her Punch notes, she redrew ALL of those pages and reformatted the frames drastically barely leaving any original artwork. That's Volume 3 of the original where they go to the moon the whole meaning of them going also changes drastically. It goes more towards Arthurian Legend and less generic ruins. Also notable is the change from hiragana to kanji. (yes, someone must be smirking at this--this is Usagi's weakness... related? Maybe?). Ami is in hiragana in one and kanji in the other. Ami is supposed to consistently be in kanji apparently, but didn't show up that way.
    • CONTENT
      • Act1 うさぎ SAILORMOON
      • Act2 亜美 SAILORMERCURY
      • Act3 レイ SAILORMARS
      • Act4 Masquerade 仮面舞踏会
      • Act5 まこと SAILORJUPITER
      • Act6 タキシード仮面　TUXEDO MASK
  • Volume 2
    • ISBN 4-06-334777-X
    • Contains Acts 7-11
    • September 22, 2003
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 2 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 22, 2003 |id= ISBN 4-06-334777-X }}</ref>
  • Volume 3
    • ISBN 4-06-334783-4
    • Contains Acts 12-16
    • October 23, 2003
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 3 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= October 23, 2003 |id= ISBN 4-06-334783-4 }}</ref>
  • Volume 4
    • ISBN 4-06-334803-2
    • Contains Acts 17-21
    • November 21, 2003
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 4 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= November 21, 2003 |id= ISBN 4-06-334803-2 }}</ref>
  • Volume 5
    • ISBN 4-06-334828-8
    • Contains Acts 22-26
    • December 22, 2003
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 5 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= December 22, 2003 |id= ISBN 4-06-334828-8 }}</ref>
  • Volume 6
    • ISBN 4-06-334835-0
    • Contains Acts 27-30
    • January 23, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 6 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= January 23, 2004 |id= ISBN 4-06-334835-0}}</ref>
  • Volume 7
    • ISBN 4-06-334842-3
    • Contains Acts 31-35
    • February 23, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 7 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= February 23, 2004 |id= ISBN 4-06-334842-3}}</ref>
  • Volume 8
    • ISBN 4-06-334857-1
    • Contains Acts 36-39
    • March 23, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 8 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= March 23, 2004 |id= ISBN 4-06-334857-1}}</ref>
  • Volume 9
    • ISBN 4-06-334865-2
    • Contains Acts 40-44
    • April 23, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 9 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= |id= ISBN }}</ref>
  • Volume 10
    • ISBN 4-06-334873-3
    • Contains Acts 45-49
    • May 21, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 10 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= May 21, 2004 |id= ISBN }}</ref>
  • Volume 11
    • ISBN 4-06-334885-7
    • Contains Acts 50-54
    • June 23, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Volume 11 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= June 23, 2004 |id= ISBN 4-06-334885-7}}</ref>
  • Volume 12
    • ISBN 4-06-334896-2
    • Contains Acts 55-60
    • July 23, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Volume 12 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= July 23, 2004 |id= ISBN 4-06-334896-2}}</ref>
  • Story Collection Volume 1
    • ISBN 4-06-334910-1
    • August 23, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Story Collection Volume 1 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= August 23, 2004 |id= ISBN }}</ref>
    • Contains Exam Battles, Chibiusa Picture Stories (in that order, in order of original publication.)
  • Story Collection Volume 2
    • ISBN 4-06-334915-2
    • September 22, 2004
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon Shinzoubon Story Collection Volume 2 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]] |date= September 22, 2004 |id= ISBN 4-06-334915-2 }}</ref>
    • Contains Lover of Princess Kaguya, Casablanca Memories, Parallel Sailormoon

Tokyopop

  • Sailor Moon 10
    • ISBN 1-892213-98-2
    • Mixx Entertainment, Inc.
    • 1995, 2001.
    • example: <ref>{{cite book |last= Takeuchi |first= Naoko | title= Sailor Moon 10 |chapter= Act # |publisher= [[Kodansha]], Mixx Entertainment, Inc., [[Tokyopop]] |date= 1995, 2001 |id= ISBN 1-892213-98-2}}</ref>


Note: Alex Glover noted translation differences on his website for the first 3 volumes. There are some differences on plot and some pictures.

Note 2: I don't have the Tokyopop version with me 100%. They are back across the country with my parents... so I don't have those ISBNs. However, TP manga should also be cited as a last resort, even above the shinzoubon. I'll be listing the date of publication when I have time. --Hitsuji Kinno 19:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I must be nuts. I stayed up til 1:00 in the morning punching out dates and making referencing manga 10 times easier for those of you who are lazy. The only think I can't add for you are the name=tags. vol#act# will work well or vol#back or vol#note or shin#act# or Shin#back (only applies for 2 and 3 anyhow) I started rough important events that happen in each... because I'm sure that a refresher will help, and also it will help put in citing various materials that need to be cited. Like *cough* first appearances. I'm putting up rough notes on what was changed too for the shinzoubon... game of "one thing is not like the other one of these things does not belong". Summarizing like that is a pain, so I hope it'll be put to good use, 'cause this is going to be fed back into my ailing SM Manga FAQ. I also have a list of Tokyopop changes too in that FAQ. --Hitsuji Kinno 08:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I've created Wikipedia:WikiProject Sailor Moon/References as a permanent reference for referencing in WP:SM, linked to WP:CITE and a couple of resources NOT to cite. Hope it helps. - Malkinann 22:31, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

SWEET! :D High-five for you!
Shall we delete the duplicate info from this talk page, Hitsuji? --Masamage 22:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
GOD YES! It takes up a ton of space (on the page) and is a pain to scroll though... Lego3400: The Sage of Time 19:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, you can delete it. =P I put it on my userpage for my own selfishness. ^^;; I'm keeping it for myself because I don't feel like going through and remaking the citations, plus there is a lot of info I personally need. So delete away. --Hitsuji Kinno 03:05, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Enemy Profiles/ Mulitple Character Pages

After finishing Mamoru and Chibiusa's formatting and adding references, I noticed that pages with more than one character are utter messes! So I have a simple proposal to fix this right up.

First, list the general category, general info, etc.

Character Name (heading) Profile (no heading) General Info (equivilent to profile Info) Manga Version (Unnamed but paragraph given.) Anime Version (uunnamed, but paragraph given.) Items (Subheading) (if needed) Attacks (sub heading) (if needed) Music (if needed) Actresses/Actor (if needed)

Then at the bottom put all the references together using the reference format, and same thing with external links and see alsos.

This will keep it to the format that Ami has on her particular page and be a lot easier to digest rather than putting it all in one place and making it difficult.

The only exception to this I would say is for the Amazoness Quartet. Since they have 2 major forms with different names, this makes it a bit more difficult. I would say that the basic format as I outlined above are still needed, but how it's to be organized, either by repetition, separation or merging the forms together still needs to be decided this should be confined to the talk page, in the meantime I'd ask people to reformat the pages accordingly if this is voted upon as OK, including the Sailor Starlights (Major overhaul is needed there).--Hitsuji Kinno 20:43, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Support! Support, I say! I don't think items and attacks need subheadings, but otherwise, dang yes. As for the Amazoness Quartet...actually, let's talk about that over there. --Masamage 00:41, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Celebration!

The Main Sailor Moon article BARELY made it be B-class! Let's celebrate!!! And then take this to work our way up to featuring level! --Hitsuji Kinno 01:13, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] See also

I did some more looking up and according the the wikipedia manual of style, it has to go before references, then references, then external links. So I reorganized it, and added a few to the list. I wanted to use a bullet, but after doing 20+ pages I don't know if I bulleted them all. I did some minor clean up along the way too, but nothing major.

Oh, and there is no citation process for TV, but I requested one... just so we don't have to go through the trouble of citing which translation it was, etc in the article. --Hitsuji Kinno 19:09, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ian Miller

While some of his points are "interesting" many of them are not sourced properly and thus, I'd vote to deal with the issues he brings up in this fashion:

  1. Give him credit for the idea
  2. Source real sources to back up his ideas, like Bullfinch's mythology.

Why:

  1. Many of Ian Miller's ideas are either fringe, strange, or he doesn't properly source his materials. For example, for the Amazones article he sourced a Japanese website on Amazones, but he does not read japanese. He's admitted several times that he can't really read Japanese, which led the the imfamous stint on sailormoon.org forums where he said that the Maboroshi no Ginzuishou was translated as "Silver Water Stone" failing to see zuishou means crystal. (You can see a version of this on the Sailor Moon newsletter)
  2. Many of his sources are old, for example, he cited an article from the 70's on Mau and said that Takeuchi spelled it wrong because Egyptian has no vowels, however, Hawas has stated NUMEROUS times that while they were not written in EARLY egyptian that they were in fact implied. He also purposefully misquoted the book, I dug it up for him and he got mad... I also have sources for this as well.
  3. Many of his ideas are excellent, however, many of them have not been 100% supported by the author or those involved, so unless directly stated, if it is fringe, it should be stated that it's not known if this is the intetnion of the author, which he's reluctant to admit on his own website.
  4. Some of his ideas are definitely fringe. Like the whole "You have to use the Japanese kanji for Violin Tide" and all attacks. (Despite Rainbow Honeymoon Therapy Kiss being in kanji) and also support for "Violon" v. "Violin" which currently Jeffrey's dictionary and other Japanese dictionaries don't support.
  5. Some of his ideas are pure specuation and while he has sources from language books, etc, he lacks support from the original series's statements from the creator or clear support (like Greek Mythology).
  6. He fails to often recognize puns within the series as well. (I think this is mainly due to his not being able to read Japanese properly, he can cipher, but he can't really put it together in a complete understanding).
  7. Many of his ideas start, but they lack to finish, like the "Pluto" "Saturn" switch. Originally I pulled him more sources for these ideas but he's not added them, and this goes for many of the fans that have tried to supply sources to add info on his website and correct his information.
  8. He's antagonized many of the fanship in the process of making his pages and has an attitude that many people do not appreciate. This can lead to reversion wars which are not to be appreciated. If you want a list of those he's antagonized, you need only look at this own website and message me on my talk page (and this does include Hitoshi Doi and Alex Glover.. and yes, he admitted he can't really understand Japanese... so you can see where I'm going with this).

Thus while he may have found the basic idea, the support on his own website is very, very thin ice, so I would say that instead of 100% relying on him (People see he's sourced, but then don't check his sources...). I'd source the original articles to support his statements, and thus discount any wrong information he provides within his own website. Primary over secondary. This will also create an emotional separation from using him entirely and get people to look at the facts rather than the person who came up with it. It also directs people off of his website which contains many ideas people do not agree with, question his sources a bit more and think and find their own and generally mitigate any damage that could be done in terms of sourcing.

Is this fair? --Hitsuji Kinno 19:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I had never heard of this guy; I'm not aware of us referencing him, but I think we should cite things up until it no longer looks like we are. Sounds bogus. --Masamage 21:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manga subpage

Okay! I've been plugging away at this all day and I think it's ready to launch: Wikipedia:WikiProject Sailor Moon/Sailor Moon (manga)! Please respond quickly because I'm excited! :D Probably I can get the anime one ready this weekend as well. --Masamage 23:49, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

PS. I actually have the release dates, too; those can be added directly any time. --Masamage 00:01, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Okay, since this matches the conclusions we've been dicussing about the eventual manga page for quite some time, I'm going to be bold and just go ahead and move it to the main articlespace. Woohoo for progress!--Masamage 05:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I've begun an [[anime article as well, but I won't be able to finish it tonight. This is just a head's up; please don't edit it yet. I'm only possessive about articles I create before I finish them; after that it's all yours. ^^ --Masamage 06:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, it looks about ready. Launching now--have at ye! :) --Masamage 20:16, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bootlegs article

Please join the discussion at Talk:Sailor Moon bootlegs. --Masamage 18:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Too late. Deleted. --  Denelson83  19:04, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Song formatting

There seems to be a disagreement on how the songs should be formatted which is causing me headaches, so let's just settle it. I make it bullet style, and someone swoops in an makes it paragraph, make it paragraph, then bullets. Your choices are:

  1. Bullets
  2. paragraph form

Currently the Ami Mizuno article has BOTH. >.<;; What the hell is that? Seriously... Choose one and stick with it. Personally I favor bullets, easier to read, quick run down and you can put it in sequential order. Paragraphs are harder to skim. If you want to know if they sang X song you have to read all this other stuff before it. Version clearing and who they sanfg it with can be done after each song. Keeping it in sequential order will make it easier. So vote! --Hitsuji Kinno 23:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Note: I'm giving everyone until October 27, 2006 to vote on this. That's more than a week. --Hitsuji Kinno 21:59, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Bullets! With a sentence or two after each. --Masamage 04:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Deadline's hit. Looks like this is okay. --Masamage 23:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infoboxes

Template talk:Infobox has the basics of it. (I'd think we're aiming for a combo of number 3 and number 4 on the page.

Now, I suggest Infoboxes for the following:

  • Characters
  • Episodes (possibly ask the Anime Project to do it.)
  • Manga Volumes (possibly ask the Anime Project to do it since they would find it useful...)
  • Staff [This would be like Osano... Takeuchi, Tadano, etc.] (possibly ask the Anime Project to do it.)

Are there any I missed? Specifically I'd like to clean up the character pages. Most of the stats will stay as they are, (the favorite food, etc), but for info that you just want to know on the fly, like first appearances, who designed the character in the anime, who voiced them (maybe), and info you basically want to know right off if you are not an SM fan. So instead of alias, it can be civilian name, instead of the other field, it can be Senshi name (or transformed name since you have aliens with aliases, though those have been combined, so we may need another info box for seasons, etc unless we do a floating info box... but that could be messy). The one I think that is up for debate would be the character info boxes. We will need those and need to discuss what to put into them and put it to a vote so the pages get up to code so we can concentrate on other pages. So anyone care to do a list and then have a vote? (we'll move in order) In the meantime can someone ask the Anime and Manga Project if they think the listed info boxes will be made underneath them?--Hitsuji Kinno 22:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the big deal one to me is character boxes. Since the episodes are holding up for now and manga articles won't be up for a while yet, that's the one I'd worry about. I wouldn't do staff boxes at all--those people are defined outside having worked on this series, so it feels a little weird to lay claim to them. :)
To accelerate this, I'm just going to copy over the contents of this discussion as it started over at Talk:Sailor Moon. --Masamage 01:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Due to changes in the Super hero box, i think its time that we get Sailor moon Charcters their own charcter box style. Ok people you know what to do, post your votes!Lego3400: The Sage of Time 13:26, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I want it to have the color bands like it did before! Other than that, let's see... Initial thoughts are that I think we can get rid of the "publisher," "first appearance," and "creator" fields, as we have that covered. That also means the "characteristics" header can go. Add a visible "relatives" field. Change "notable aliases" to "aliases." Question: Is this a Sailor Senshi only box? Or for other people too, like Luna and Galaxia, as it's used now? Or should we come up with a completely new paradigm? --Masamage 18:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I say we use them for all charcters, as it is much slimpiler. Also should we move this converstion to the Wikiprodject: Sailor moon page?Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:22, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Probably. :) --Masamage 01:45, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Before we do that, though--can you (or can someone) find the way the Superheroboxes looked before this recent big change? It'll be in the history. We could take that old version, copy it into our project template space, and then make changes to that actively to see how they look. --Masamage 05:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Well it seems the color boxes have returned. The oldest version I can recall had Relitves and 2 sets of afiliations (Former and current) as well as status feild.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 02:25, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Bleh, colors are gone again.
Okay, let me think. Who's this going to apply to? Looking at our character organization, it seems that a character box would go to the ten Sailor Team members, Tuxedo Mask, Luna, Artemis, Diana, Chibichibi, Princess Kakyuu, Sailor Cosmos, Sailor Galaxia, and Chaos. These are the only ones who have their own articles, and I think stacking multiple boxes atop one another for the group pages would look horrible. So we can probably assume those 19 pages?
So here's my list of my opinion on what our Sailor Moon character boxes should have.
  • Top header, with color behid it: Senshi name, in bold. Or normal name, when that's what they've got.
  • Image with caption, as now.
  • Alter-ego. Put "None" if there isn't one.
  • Affiliations. Put "Sailor Team" for the main ten, not Sailor Senshi. Galaxia's can probably say Sailor Senshi, though.
  • First appearances.
  • Aliases.
  • English-language aliases.
  • Abilities.
Aaand that's about it. Relatives can probably actually stay out, since that's covered in prose. And comments? --Masamage 18:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Of all that there is only a few things i would change: Instead of Alter-ego, Use Real Name, Relatives aren't always covered so I'd put it in. Maybe we could also put 4 first appearance boxes. Manga, Live Action, Anime, and Musical and put them under the picture.

  • Top header, with color behind it: Senshi name, in bold. Or normal name, when that's what they've got.
  • Image with caption, as now..
  • Real Name
  • First appearance: (Next 3 lines if we use 4 feilds)
  • Affiliations. Put "Sailor Team" for the main ten, not Sailor Senshi. Galaxia's can probably say Sailor Senshi, though.
  • Former Affiliations EX Senshi for Galaxia or Dark Kingdom for Tuxedo Kamen
  • Aliases.
  • English-language aliases.
  • Abilities.
  • Relatives (Includeing Spouses (EX Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Kamen or Luna and Artemis)

Also If the article has enough length and it is placed in the right spot you can use them for multiple page charcters EX Starlights also, The blank fields shouldn't show so we can save space. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 16:43, 13 October 2006 (UTC) (amended by Denelson83 (typo fixes) at 18:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC))

My Suggestions:
  • Top header, with color behind it: Senshi name, in bold. (to match the image since it was decided it would be their Senshi form, chornologically according to the SM timeline this comes first anyhow)
  • Image with caption, as now...
  • Civilian name: (The Senshi name is no more or less valid, nor the Princess name, if you want technical this is their reincarnated name. Plus "civilian" is the meaning of "no" in Tsukino as literal, making it a pun. This is kind of an acknowledgement of that pun. This makes it disambiguous).
  • Name meaning:
  • First appearance: (Next 3 lines if we use 4 fields--I support, enumberate which version with italics or bold..)
  • Affiliations: Put "Sailor Team" for the main ten, not Sailor Senshi. Galaxia's can probably say Sailor Senshi, though. (Galaxia is not part of the Sailor Senshi, more of Shadow Galactica, since the profiles were rearranged is this necessary for enemies?)
  • Former Affiliations: EX Senshi for Galaxia or Dark Kingdom for Tuxedo Kamen (Dark Kingdom is shaky since he was brainwashed to be on their side... so it's like saying Chibiusa elected to become part of the Black Moon Clan)
  • Aliases.
  • English-language aliases.
  • Abilities. (Cut abilities, can be covered on the page and is extensively done already in Magical powers.)
  • Relatives (Including Spouses (EX Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Kamen or Luna and Artemis)
Affiliations note: All affiliations should be by GROUP not what they are. So for example, Galaxia belongs to Shadow Galatica, The Sailors belong to the Sailor Team. If you want beyond affiliations, then a new field should be made. However, since it's consistent manga to anime (save the irksome profile-maiking of Chibichibi and Sailor Cosmos) then it should be easier. If there is no major group, leave this space blank. Why? Because it'll get confusing in the long run. Sailor Iron Mouse is not a real Sailor. Sailor Tin Nyanko according to the manga and anime could or could not be a real Sailor. Thus you'll have people trying to figure out how to edit. It's easier to do group affiliations rather than general affiliation (like all people with brown hair stand up, all people with green eyes...) v. if they belong to a group (i.e. You work for Disney and you work for Warners, and you work for Toei...). One is specific the other is too arbritrary. The general affiliations also have spoilers and spoilers should be left off.
Name meaning note: I don't mean a whole long paragraph about how X thing is a pun, just cover the civilian name, and do it quickly, as it stands thisparagraph is floating around the profiles without a definate placement. This is how it should be covered:
  • Chi [character]- as in "Chikyuu" meaning "Earth"
  • ba [character]- "place" (Chiba then meaning local)
  • Mamoru [character]- "Protector"
  • Tsuki [character] - meaning "moon"
  • no [character]- meaning "of" (homophone for [character]) or "civilian", "domestic", field** (pun)
  • Usagi [character](use kanji, since hiragana will be at the top)- Rabbit (Rabbit of the Moon) <--- Link that to the story instead of explaining.
Handle it that way... it's quick, painless and simple. Also gives it a place to go since it's neither introductory nor explaining more about the character.
What would aliases include? Some aliases are spoilers.... how do we handle that?
English Language Affiliations is too ambiguous... it's hard to tell what is what... since this would generate more lines, making the previous line null, why not spell it out? or even put it as a sub section of the type of name? So for example:
Civilian Name: [Name]
English Language Name: [Name]
Aliases:
English Language Aliases:
This would fit the format of first appearances.
Abilities I would cut for the following reasons: 1. It gets into fan-made up territories. For those that are not fan-made up, there are only 5 known extra abilities that only show up once and in the manga (This can be covered in profile). For two of those 5 it has to be supported that it was also in the anime, (making clutter) and there is a whole section dedicated to attacks and magic. If they want to know what element they command it's in stats. Both sections are easy to read (being bulleted). This section will more than likely have things like Tuxedo can throw darts well, and Michiru can divine with her mirror. So I say cut this, from the looks of it things are going to be super long as it stands.
So I would think something like that would be easy for the outsider to understand and for us to manage. The other stats on the profiles can be debated. It might be a good idea to add "Element" to the infoboxes, but this is debatable. It's because I can't find an actual source for this except by telling people that the planet kanji for mercury contains water... etc. One last thing... how do we handle enemies who have been combined under their group affiliations? --Hitsuji Kinno 15:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

XD That Element part is easy. Just use the Anime itself as a sourceLego3400: The Sage of Time 14:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project Directory

Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:

  • User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
  • User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
  • User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
  • User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Looks good to me. We're in Culture Directory 2, under "Anime and manga." --Masamage 07:13, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 14:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sailor Says question

Putting this here instead of Talk:Sailor Moon episode 001 so it will be seen:

Would it be a copyright violation to quote the full text of a Sailor Says segment? Does it perhaps depend on why it's quoted? --Masamage 07:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I've seen direct quotes before on video game articles. It should be okay, but I'm not an expert on policy. I guess some digging around is in order. -SaturnYoshi THE VOICES 07:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
As long as we don't take credit for making it up ourselves, give proper citation, (i.e. it's in this episode which originally aired (if we have that)) and put it in quotations it should be fine. It would be under the clause of fair use, which is that a part of a greater piece can be used in fictional and non-fiction work. As long as it's not the whole episode or more than ten percent you should be fine. ^^;; I looked that sort of thing up since I intend to publish... --Hitsuji Kinno 00:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pretty Solider Sailor Moon: Another Story

Since Its Sailor Moon Its under our Jurisdiction. Why do we not have any info on it? Its a very lengthy game with many charcters unique to it. It deserves a page. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 01:27, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

We've been planning a video games article for some time, as a branch from the current section of the Sailor Moon article (which does indeed mention Another Story). I think the best way to go would to get that comprehensive article up and running, and make Another Story its own article only after we've gathered so much info that it unbalances the video game article. --Masamage 03:01, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I happen to have a Rom (with an English translation patch) of Another Story. Though the translation is bad at some parts I can tell you everything that has happend in my game so far.Lego3400: The Sage of Time 15:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Awesome. I've played it too, a little (and my brother has played it like three times), so anything one of us doesn't remember should be easy to fill in. ^^ I've got some of the fighting games, too, and I think Panic in Nakayoshi Land, somewhere... -Masamage 18:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Really? Whats that game like? Why do games like that never come out in the USA????
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