Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Archive 7
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All Pro Wrestling Pages on Wikipedia
I'm still fairly new to Wikipedia, so I'm still not sure if this is possible. Is there a way to group all Pro Wrestling pages on Wikipedia into a group that can be easily accessed? I know we have categories for various things in Pro Wrestling, but is there a way to bunch all the Pro Wrestling pages on a Special page with some script or something to sort of have a group watchlist for Pro Wrestling. Anyone can view the watchlist page and it gets automatically updated every few seconds to note any changes and so vandalism can be taken care of quickly. I ask this because I only have approximately 200 pages on my watchlist and I'm sure I don't even have 1% of all the wrestling related articles on Wikipedia. It would be nice to have a watchlist for them all instead of having to go to a ton of pages and adding them one by one to a personal watchlist. tv316 21:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- No, it's not possible. The best we can do is check the category lists and add most pages to our watchlists.--Toffile 05:40, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
WWE produced songs
Hi, I suggest adding songs produced by WWE in the "Music in professional wrestling." article. because I noticed that the PPV's in the past had their theme songs produced by the WWE. Like for example, WWE Judgement Day of 2004 theme song was called "Tenderloin" and it was produced by WWE. Edraf 07:25, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
WWE NEW YORK
does anyone remember wwf new york/wwe new york/ the world open from 99 to 03 maybee in times square... not mentioned anywhere -ben
It's given a short mention here, but it could probably do with an expansion and maybe it's own article. Bdve 21:08, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Wrestler's birthdates
User 700 (talk • contribs) has changed the birthdates of several wrestlers based on info which I'm not sure is reliable. Can anyone tell whether or not these are correct, as I don't want to get into any more edit wars with him. ErikNY 04:31, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
- He is apparently getting this information from here. I'm not convinced on the accuracy of the site, as they list Samoa Joe's birthday wrong at the very least.--Toffile 05:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
WWF to WWE Date Controversy
There's an ongoing edit controversy going on between Chadbryant and myself on the WWE Undisputed Championship page. On the Talk page I've cited archived news stories from May 5, 2002, which state that as of that night the WWF changed all mentions of WWF to WWE. His only response to that is that I'm getting my info from mark sites, yet he doesn't dispute the actual date, but only the place I got it from. I'd like for the people that contribute to this project to look this matter over and post your comments on it here. Thanks. tv316 16:56, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- I have disputed the actual date *and* provided proof of the change being made official on 6 May 2002. I have also generalized the date in the article to May 2002 as a compromise (since the exact date isn't really that important in the context of the article), but you felt led to change it once again and ignore the dispute entirely. If you are going to reference what I have done, please try to be honest about it, especially when anyone can check the talk page of the article and see it. Otherwise, your credibility suffers greatly. - Chadbryant 17:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- Can you post the links you're using please, for our reference. Thanks. Essexmutant 16:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- Certainly. Here they are: http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/2002/articles/1020644114.php
- http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfother.htm
- http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/promotions/wwe.html tv316 17:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Chad, wrestling-titles.com is a mark site by your definition. It's copied from Gary Will's work on wrestling title histories, just like lordsofpain copied their information from people like Dave Meltzer and Wade Keller. I changed it back because you didn't explain why you changed it to the generalization and I saw it as an act of, mind my language, shit disturbing. I see now that was not the case. tv316 17:27, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- wrestling-titles.com is not a mark site, and regardless of its status, a quick Google search reveals that the press release announcing the change from WWF to WWE was dated 6 May 2002.
- STAMFORD, CONN., May 6, 2002 - To further capture a greater share of the global marketplace and to represent the growing diversity of its entertainment properties, World Wrestling Federation Entertainment today announced it is changing its name to World Wrestling Entertainment, Inc. (WWE). The company’s website, one of the most popular in the world, will now be found at WWE.com.
- I trust that this ends any debate. - Chadbryant 17:57, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- As previously mentioned, the press release went out on the Monday because Monday was the first day of business in the week. The actual change itself took place on the Sunday. tv316 18:32, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- The press release dated 6 May clearly states that "it is changing its name", not "it has changed its name". Present tense indicates that the change is occuring or is in the process of occuring - the use of past tense would have indicated that the change had already taken place. Hence, while certain modifications in DNS records for the WWF.com domain and website graphics may have taken place on or around 5 May, the name change was not announced as effective until 6 May. Despite being vindicated in my original contention, I am still in favour of leaving the article as-is to reference a general date of May 2002 as the time of the transition from WWF to WWE. - Chadbryant 18:53, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
- As previously mentioned, the press release went out on the Monday because Monday was the first day of business in the week. The actual change itself took place on the Sunday. tv316 18:32, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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- We can go on like this for years. You can post your proofs and I can post my proofs and we'll still think the other one's wrong. Seeing as its a minor line in a minor article, it's not worth the effort to repeat ourselves continually. Unless some other people pipe in with their opinions, the compromise should be fine. tv316 21:08, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Hear hear. Even if it's a kayfabed date, so what? We use the kayfabe dates for title changes even if they were taped earlier and shown on TV later. It's all about what the wrestling promotion considers official, and if WWE says it was May 6th on their own press release that's good enough for me. BronzeWarrior 10:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
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- A heads-up for the other legitimate wrestling editors here - there is yet another user (User:LtColMüller) who has chosen to vandalize various articles with the incorrect date for the WWF-to-WWE change. He has been provided with various cites of the correct date, as well as the press release that establishes 6 May 2002 as the correct date to reference, yet insists on reverting or editing articles to reflect an incorrect date. - Chadbryant 21:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
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Wrestler article naming contrary to conventions (part 2)
While I don't think all the changes proposed by KelvSYC are necessary or desirable, some of them are good suggestions. Moving Paul Levesque to Triple H seems a sensible course of action, and I intend to request a page move (which, of course, can be opposed). I also think that Jason Reso should be moved to Christian Cage as (1) this has always been the full name of his "character", (2) he has trademarked the name "Christian Cage" and (3) it is the ring name he will use for the forseeable future, and will allow a lot of direct linking in the TNA articles. The second move does not require the assistance of an administrator, but the article is popular enough that I felt that I should consult the project before moving the page. Mark Calaway should really also be moved, but it is unclear whether the page should be moved to The Undertaker, the name I for one generally associate with him, or Undertaker (wrestler) (as WWE.com have apparently dropped the "The" from his name [1]). Obviously, the former name would allow much more direct linking. I would appreciate any feedback or criticisms as to these three proposals. McPhail 23:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
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- I would prefer The Undertaker over Undertaker (wrestler). Also, It might be a little to early to move Jason Reso's page. These changes sound more legit than some proposals brought up by KelvSYC. Not to say all of his suggestions were bad though. :-p SWD316 talk to me 05:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with SWD316 on this, The Undertaker would be a good name to move after going under the name for 15 years as compared to the move to Christian Cage which is tad bit too early. I would also agree with the move for Paul Levesque to Triple H as the chances of him changing his name is very unlikely. --Oakster 12:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- At least until the inevitable breakup between him and Stephanie McMahon... And that's the problem really. Unlike actors, musicians, et. al., wrestlers don't own their names. Their ability to continue using their stage names is entirely contingent on their continued employment with a given company. That's the whole thing that makes this issue so thorny that we've been discussing it since before I joined the project and STILL haven't reached a clear consensus. --HBK|Talk 16:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- That is only speculated if they do break up. However, we should keep the revert option for Triple H. If someone were to type in Paul Levesque, it would redirect to Triple H instead of it going nowhere. SFrank85 19:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC) talk
- I agree with SWD316 on this, The Undertaker would be a good name to move after going under the name for 15 years as compared to the move to Christian Cage which is tad bit too early. I would also agree with the move for Paul Levesque to Triple H as the chances of him changing his name is very unlikely. --Oakster 12:51, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- I would prefer The Undertaker over Undertaker (wrestler). Also, It might be a little to early to move Jason Reso's page. These changes sound more legit than some proposals brought up by KelvSYC. Not to say all of his suggestions were bad though. :-p SWD316 talk to me 05:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Did Christian ever use the Cage surname in WWE? I don't recall it, but it could be implied. The problem that I can see is that if Cage becomes so popular so as to TNA simply referring to him as Christian. I still believe that Christian Cage would still be a viable move. We also have the issue of ring name shortenings that have arisen from de facto convention: after all, Calaway's original Undertaker was called Kane, the three Hs actually stood for something before the rise of The Game, etc.
Still, the main point is that the placement of articles under obscure real names, IMO, are contrary to WP:NC (P), in which we should instead place them under more recognizable ring names. Until we see something like "Joseph Bonsignore as Joey Styles" at the end of Raw and "Sean Coulthard as Michael Cole, Peter Senerca as Tazz" at the end of every SmackDown! that is what we have to do to follow conventions. kelvSYC 06:15, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
- Jay Reso's original ring name in WWF/E was "Christian Cage". He held the WWF Light Heavyweight Championship under this name briefly. - Chadbryant 00:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
- It surprises me WWE hasn't challenged his ownership of the trademark then, since they could claim he used it while working under contract for the E, and those contracts (read a generic one at one of the free law websites) are pretty brutal when it comes to saying Vince et al WWE own everything about you up to (possibly including) your first born. But maybe Reso trademarked it first when he was working the indies in Canada and there wasn't scat WWE could do about it when he renewed under his original name. BronzeWarrior 10:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Problem
The article "List of WWE World Tag Team Champions" and "List of WWE World Tag team Champions by length" have been deleted or somethin? Can anyone confirm this? Edraf 07:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- I searched them up and they were missing the dash in the links between Tag-Team. I fixed them and they work fine now. tv316 12:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Pay-per-view event infobox
I've been working on an infobox for individual pay-per-view event articles, which might also be useful for other non-PPV event articles as well. Here is the template along with an example of it in action: User:Oakster/PPV Template. Any chance we could use it? --Oakster 16:57, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Nice work. I'd support its use. --HBK|Talk 17:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Good work making it. I'd definately support its use. tv316 17:30, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Attendance and buyrate should probably be optional fields as this information isn't always readily available. McPhail 18:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- I support using this infobox. Good job. As for the buyrates, they should be more easy to find now that WWE has to release its buyrates because they are a publicly traded company. Attendence could be a hard find for other PPV's besides Wrestlemania. SFrank85 18:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- They are optional fields along with pay-per-view succession if you can see the top table. --Oakster 19:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- I like it but I think the succession part should be more like the album template.--Darren Jowalsen 21:21, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Good idea. I've changed the pay-per-view chronology section now to fit around your idea. --Oakster 21:59, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- I like it but I think the succession part should be more like the album template.--Darren Jowalsen 21:21, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Looking good! SFrank85 22:20, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- They are optional fields along with pay-per-view succession if you can see the top table. --Oakster 19:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- I support using this infobox. Good job. As for the buyrates, they should be more easy to find now that WWE has to release its buyrates because they are a publicly traded company. Attendence could be a hard find for other PPV's besides Wrestlemania. SFrank85 18:13, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Attendance and buyrate should probably be optional fields as this information isn't always readily available. McPhail 18:09, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Good work making it. I'd definately support its use. tv316 17:30, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
- Well I've finished placing them in most of the individual pay-per-view articles (along with other non-PPV events) with the help of tv316. tv316 has also suggested about how to deal with the pay-per-view articles that have results for many years in one page. How do you guys feel about the setup on User:Tv316/Sandbox? --Oakster 16:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
- I like it. But you dont have to put the same picture in the infobox everytime. Edraf 09:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
- I'd like to use that template box like it has been used on User:Tv316/Sandbox for all the major pay-per-views. I was just about to ask about putting them on all of the articles until I found this. Good job on the template as well by the way. I can get a hold of the WWE and TNA pay-per-view attendances almost immedietely after the events (ROH among others could be a problem though, estimates for ROH events say 550 but that is for the start of 2006 events, don't know where to find attendances from years like 2002 from) and would gladly add it to all the other pay-per-views. Normy132, 04:15 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- I like it. But you dont have to put the same picture in the infobox everytime. Edraf 09:51, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Article Lenghts / Week By Week Breakdowns
Some articles are getting just incredibly unnecessarily long. There's no reason to give a week by week of Chris Masters' career is there?Bdve 22:43, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Week by week breakdowns is cruft. Wrestlers' storyline progressions should be based on more logical units such as angle-by-angle. If a storyline is significant, we would have a separate page for it, and it might have a week-by-week breakdon (depending on length and other factors). kelvSYC 06:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Image:Wwe.jpg
I suggest that Image:Wwe.jpg should be up for deletion becuase we already have a better wwe logo. Let's talk about it. SFrank85 01:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
- If you feel that way, put it up on IFD. kelvSYC 06:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
- Well it links to nowhere so tag it with the appropriate template from WP:CSD and it'll be gone in a week.--Toffile 06:30, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Professional wrestling match types
This page has gotten insane. There's a reogrinization tag on it but few seem to check it when they edit. People are continually re-adding the same match with a different name (You Can't See Me = Blindfold rebranded).
I don't think we have to go as far as to make seperate pages for every kind of variation (Singles variations / Containter variations etc) but there has to be a way to slim it down.
I just wanted to draw some attention to it.
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- I will help reogrinize it. It has gotten way out of hand. SFrank85 18:32, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
As I have stated on the page in a comment, the standard is that two match types differing only in non-wrestling aspects are considered identical, so someone adding "You Can't See Me" over and over again would count as vandalism. We should have a blurb on how bookers can come up with new stuff all the time, and have notability criterion, which I have proposed on Talk:Professional wrestling match types. kelvSYC 22:36, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
I just proposed what matches I think should be eliminated from the article. See [2] for more details.--Toffile 03:10, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
I have removed some the Urban Legends & Myth section from the Eddie Guerrero & WWE articles
The reason I did is it is just pure disrespectful to Eddie to have these paragraphs saying he faked his death and still alive. I wish he was still alive but I do not vandalize articles proclaiming he is still alive because it morally wrong and distasteful to his legend. BionicWilliam 07:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Quick two cents on the naming issue
I think redirects or disambiguation from a wrestler's gimmick name to their real (non kayfabe) name is probably the most sensible solution. This issue came up for me when writing William Welch's entry, since in the ring he's known as Messiah. Now clearly if I had tried to surplant the messiah entry on Wiki with one for a pro wrestler, all hell (no pun intended) would have broken loose. The only sensible thing to do in that case was to write the page under his real name and provide the appropriate links to it using the link renaming | convention where appropriate. Now clearly not every wrestler is going to have a religious word as a gimmick name, but we all know wrestlers whose gimmick names are ridiculously entangled in pop culture. Think of how many different references there are to Raven (Teen Titans is the first of many that come to mind) and as a result it makes more sense to file him under Scott Levy. Further we all loved the double entendre of the gimmick but doesn't a Mick Foley page make more sense than unduly confusing all of mankind? I rest my case. BronzeWarrior 10:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
- The page could have been created at Messiah (wrestler). This is the naming convention used with Sting (wrestler) and The Rock (entertainer). McPhail 19:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
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- I realize it +could+ have been, but since most of the bios I had already read on Wiki used the wrestler's real name (Jay Reso, Scott Levy, and so on) it just seemed to make more sense. I suppose on a self-edited site like Wiki there doesn't need to be a consensus on the right way to do bio pages, but I'll stick with using real names since I prefer that to "gimmick name" (wrestler). BronzeWarrior 23:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
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- I think that the real names should be used simply because real names never change.--Anthony 23:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Unless, of course, you are Warrior... - Chadbryant 05:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
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Wrestling Observer Awards
I was thinking of adding templates for some of the Wrestling Observer awards, similar to the title history templates to show the Wrestler of the Year awards, etc. Any objections? Essexmutant 10:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
- No need for a template. They can be listed in the Championships and accomplishments section the same way as PWI awards and Tokyo Sports Grand Prix awards.
- ↪Lakes (Talk) 11:54, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
- I've made a start, see Kenta Kobashi for an example. So far I've done Wrestler of the Year, Most Outstanding Wrestler, Best Box Office Draw, Best Babyface and Best Heel. I'll carry on later. Along the way I have created a stub for Koji Kanemoto - expansion welcome. Essexmutant 15:23, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Tag Team or Tag-Team
Recently, while making edits to WWE Tag Team Championship, I reverted edits by a user who removed the dashes in any mentions of 'Tag-Team' on that page. Just now, I looked at the page and, although it was in plain site, I noticed for the first time that the page itself had no dash. Then I looked to the bottom of the page and it linked out to List of WWE Tag-Team Champions and List of WWE Tag-Team Championship reigns by length. Also, half the mentions of 'Tag Team' on that page have dashes in them and the other have doesn't. I don't particularly care which one it is, but I think we in the project need to choose which one we stick with, make the necessary page moves and edits, and continue to use only it and not the other one. tv316 02:37, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
- I believe without a dash is the correct one. That is the format WWE.com is also using. Same for noah.co.jp. I'm all for changing all occurrences of Tag-Team to Tag Team.
- ↪Lakes (Talk) 08:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I believe the de facto correct usage is that "tag team" is a noun, while "tag-team" is a verb. (eg. "The two tag teams tag-teamed to form a fearsome foursome."). That's why Wikipedia's article is at tag team. On this topic, in professional wrestling usage the ampersand is to separate members of one tag team, while "and" is used to separate teams themselves. kelvSYC 07:12, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Redundant WWE articles
Some random articles i found... i will admit some are just in need of a clean up while others are quite pointless:
- Deluxe Triple Crown Champion
- WWE PPV Statistics
- List of WWE world champions by age
- Power 25
- History of the "You Suck!" Chant
- Crowd chants
- Most of those articles should be proposed for deletion, but crowd chants could actually be developed into a good article, although it would have very little to do with pro wrestling if it were written correctly. - Chadbryant 18:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
- I've AFD'd WWE PPV Statistics, as it is deletion worthy.
- DTCC (or even TCC) is not a term used by WWE (Grand Slam, however, is). It might just be for the benefit of smarks (after all, we all know that smarks have a big affinity for Chris Benoit, and wishes he would win the WWE Championship to complete his set of six...)
- The history of the "You Suck" chant should be part of the main chronological proper, yet it is too poorly written to be of any value (encyclopedia writers, after all, should be able to write good prose, not crude 1337...). It also misses out on a lot of details (such as the Angle face turn that pretty much separated him from WGTT when he stated that the "you suck" chants were there as a symbol of overcoming adversity)
- Power 25 is merge worthy, but to where I am not sure - it certainly does not deserve its own article.
- As for world champions by age, it could be deletion worthy as it is right now - if the Wikidata project is a success, we'd have this computed for us anyways.
kelvSYC 07:09, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
While we're on the subject, I've just noticed an article for WWE.com which I think is pretty pointless and more or less an advert for their site. --Oakster 18:17, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
- Somebody already did an edit/re-direct, because I'm not seeing it now. Either way I'm sure it was redundant. BronzeWarrior 03:19, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Smackdown Vs. RAW Storyline
I think there should be an article about the Smackdown vs. RAW Storyline. It has been a major storyline in 2005. Can anybody follow-up on this?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Edraf (talk • contribs).
- I don't know if it's enough for a full article. I don't think we have any single article about any single wrestling storyline. Also, you can sign your comments with a ~~~~. Welcome to the project.--Toffile 01:03, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
We have separate articles on The Invasion, Katie Vick, etc. ie. the ones that go on WrestleCrap. For good storylines, we don't have much in that department. kelvSYC 03:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
- Ironic isn't it that good storylines don't need entries, but bad ones do? I'm not complaining I'm just amused. :) BronzeWarrior 03:32, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
- So true. So very very true. =P--Toffile 03:37, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Articles that need help
Is there a place to list articles that you know need editing and need to be updated/expanded but you yourself don't have the information to do it? It makes me sad to see Crusher & Dick The Bruiser nearly empty but I wasn't even born when they were on the scene. -Bdve 02:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
- I'll take a look at the articles later tonight and try to update them a bit if someone else from the Project didn't beat me to the punch. I don't know that I ever saw much of their work growing up (until the late 20th century WWWF/WWF was all I knew or saw) and I'm only 31 so I probably missed "their era" but there are plenty of good resources you can use to expand someone's wrestling bio. I personally recommend OWW and CAC among others. You can also learn more about old school legends by using tape traders. BronzeWarrior 03:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
- I haven't gotten to Dick the Bruiser's page yet, but I will probably revise it tonight. I encourage you to check out my rewrite of Crusher's page if you haven't already. BronzeWarrior 17:41, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
- Well I want to thank you for tackling that Crusher article as quickly and thoroughly as you did, but those two were just examples. What I really want to know is, is it cool for just anybody to edit the box on top of the talk page for articles to cleanup/expand/recreate etcetera. I don't know wikipedia protocol -Bdve 21:51, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I've been here long enough myself to qualify as an expert, but I don't think editing in a suggestion for articles to clean up or expand is something +I+ would grouse about. It's good to know what needs work. BronzeWarrior 07:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Well I want to thank you for tackling that Crusher article as quickly and thoroughly as you did, but those two were just examples. What I really want to know is, is it cool for just anybody to edit the box on top of the talk page for articles to cleanup/expand/recreate etcetera. I don't know wikipedia protocol -Bdve 21:51, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Gregory Helms, RR 2006
I've noted this on the talk:Royal Rumble 2006 discussion, but in case anyone misses that post, I'm not sure Helms can be considered a two-time WWE cruiserweight champion since the previous title he held during the invasion was actually the WCW cruiserweight title. BronzeWarrior 08:24, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
- He's held the belt itself 3 times, once when it was the WCW Cruiserweight Championship and twice when it was the WWE Cruiserweight Championship. McPhail 09:08, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
- Can you clarify when? I don't remember him ever having the belt as Hurricane. I know he had the Hardcore Title a few times and Tag Team Titles with both Kane and Rosey, but I'm completely drawing a blank on him ever having had the WWE CW title before last night. BronzeWarrior 09:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
- He defeated Yoshihiro Tajiri on 14 May 2002, and lost to Jamie Noble on 23 June 2002. See List of WWE Cruiserweight Champions. Essexmutant 10:07, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
- Wow, I'll be damned. That reign went so quick I missed it completely. I remember Noble and Tajiri from that year but I had completely forgotten Helms. In fact I seem to remember Tajiri had an angle where Torrie Wilson was his geisha. BronzeWarrior 06:57, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
- He defeated Yoshihiro Tajiri on 14 May 2002, and lost to Jamie Noble on 23 June 2002. See List of WWE Cruiserweight Champions. Essexmutant 10:07, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
- Can you clarify when? I don't remember him ever having the belt as Hurricane. I know he had the Hardcore Title a few times and Tag Team Titles with both Kane and Rosey, but I'm completely drawing a blank on him ever having had the WWE CW title before last night. BronzeWarrior 09:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Article Length
I'm noticing that some of the individual wrestler entries are becoming quite long (long enough that when you edit them, you're given a warning about article size). I'm not really sure that huge articles detailing every single storyline a wrestler has ever been involved in is really necessary in most cases - just imagine how big Ric Flair would be if someone did for his article what has been done for Kurt Angle. I do think that more emphasis on the wrestler as a biographical subject, and less emphasis on the stories he or she has been a part of would go a long way in making the wrestling biographies more manageable and co-existent with Wikipedia as a whole. - Chadbryant 20:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
- This has been an issue I've been thinking about for some time now. I think we probably should start summarizing any events that occurred in the past 6-12 months. Cut out all the minor angles and results, and mention any significant events that occured. Sound fair?--Toffile 20:55, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
- I would trim down most (if not all) of the individual wrestler articles to only include notable facts & events - the infobox, titles won, the title lineages where applicable, and any notable non-ring events. - Chadbryant 22:15, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
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- There's a happy medium between a comprehensive biography and an exhaustive recap of weekly events. I think a decent sized paragraph for a period of 6-12 months is usually quite enough. Obviously some events need somewhat more detail, but there's no excuse for writing a six paragraph account of a wrestler's throwaway match on Heat. McPhail 23:00, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Category reorganization
The Professional wrestling categories (root Category:Professional wrestling) is a real big mess right now, and I'd like people in this project to help in its organization.
First, a couple changes I made:
- In keeping with Wikipedia's categorization patterns, I've made Category:Professional wrestlers by nationality and Category:Professional wrestling championships by promotion. I'd also like to move Category:Professional wrestling rosters to the more appropriate Category:Professional wrestlers by promotion.
- I have made Category:Heavyweight wrestling championships, Category:Tag team wrestling championships, Category:Cruiserweight wrestling championships, Category:Women's wrestling championships, and Category:Hardcore wrestling championships to group titles by their general category. Since there are a lot of titles, I'd like all to help with the categorization. A page on a championship should be grouped in the category of their promotion and the general type (eg. the World Tag-Team Championship is a WWE title and a tag team title).
Remaining proposals:
- In accordance to Wikipedia's categorization practices, I'd like to move Category:Professional wrestling rosters to the more appropriate Category:Professional wrestlers by promotion, and have Category:Professional wrestlers be filed under Category:Professional wrestling performers.
- In accordance to Wikipedia's categorization practices regarding sports, I'd also like to introduce Category:Defunct professional wrestling promotions and other similar categories.
- We may need Category:Main event wrestling championships to denote top wrestling championships, or at least something to differentiate the WWE Championship from the WWE Intercontinental Championship.
- As Wikipedia has a category for chronological lists, we should have a separate Category:Lists of professional wrestling title histories or something to that effect.
Any comments or suggestions? kelvSYC 00:16, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
- I don't like the cruiserweight one, it's very WWE/WCW-centric. Not sure what to do instead without making a category for each different weight-class.--Darren Jowalsen 00:53, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
- I dont think you should have the Hardcore one as that is even more WCW/WWF... but instead a Category:Gimmick wrestling championships (belts with stipulations i.e hardcore, X-div, Pure titles)... and Mid-card wrestling championships (European, intercontinetal, All-England etc etc)... i think the main problem is no one is goin through the championships and adding the categorys... i mean there are tons of light heavyweight/cruiserweight titles --- Paulley 19:25, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Viro Small - Asking for advice
I wrote this article and was looking for a good photo to go with it. The only photo I could find is on [[3]]. The problem is I don't know if it is in the public domain. I have tried to contact the administrators twice but my Email bounced back both times with a notice saying there was a fatal error on their side.
I'm thinking that since its such an old photogragh that its most likely in the public domain. Should I upload it and use it or not? (Stephen Day 01:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC))
- I think it's 99.999% likely that the photo is in public domain and copyright would have long since expired, since it has the appearance of a lithograph over 100 years old. As a last resort though, try looking up the website's domain registry through NetSol or Register.com since the owner of the site is required to keep the information current. BronzeWarrior 02:45, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Thank you very much for the advice. (Stephen Day 22:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC))
Dean Simon ---> Dean Malenko
A move has been requested for Dean Simon, to relocate the article to Dean Malenko. - Chadbryant 00:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I removed WWF(WWE)/WCW info from the List of NWA World Heavyweight Champions Page
I removed the information because it’s a Title History Page not discussion page about the rewritten history that WCW now WWE use to make one of there belts seem prestigious since the National Wrestling Alliance is a group of independent professional wrestling promotions, in operation since 1948. Prior to the 1980s, it acted as a governing body for pro wrestling, operating the 'franchise'-like "territory" system.
- Seems like it was probably a good change, since NWA doesn't acknowledge WWE in their lineage or vice versa, but please sign your posts so we know who you are and can discuss it with you if needed. BronzeWarrior 11:16, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Tables
One of the suggestions made in a peer review of the "Konnan" article was that we "Convert "Finishing and signature moves" and "Managers" to tables and integrate into the text, like Saffron#Chemistry.". The current "In wrestling / wrestling facts" sections that are used to list finishing moves, managers, nicknames, stables and quotes are, admittedly, unwieldy, and inevitably take the form of embedded lists, which are to be avoided. I don't known a lot about the codes used for tables, templates and infoboxes, but it would be useful if we could create a table that could display this information in a compact and attractive manner. McPhail 01:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Title Matches
Even though I'll grant that Wiki page length gets too long when every single event in a wrestler's history is chronicled, and that some title matches are a foregone conclusion before they even begin, for reasons I can't even fathom myself I decided to add last night's CW title shot to the Scotty 2 Hotty bio. What I'm asking applies just as much to CW as to any other type of belt - where's the right place to draw the line? Scotty was in this match as a substitute to begin with, so maybe it wasn't relevant, but some people would argue matches where the title holder retains aren't historically important either. Watching Magnum T.A. wrestle Ric Flair for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship at the AWA SuperClash, I'd have to disagree - even though Flair retains it's a fantastic and very important match. BronzeWarrior 10:49, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- I'd say a title match can be included if it is the career highlight of the person in question. It's all relative. There's not that much info on Shoichi Funaki, so the threshold for information adding is pretty low. Of course if that person gets later involved in a big feud, then the less important events can be phased out.
- ↪Lakes (Talk) 11:21, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- Good answer. Seems like it basically doesn't hurt to add it if it seems newsworthy at the time, but it can always be downscaled or phased out later on. There are other sites like OWW who will go out of their way to record every match and title shot whether a Wiki entry does or not. BronzeWarrior 01:44, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Grand Slam Champion
Hi, I just want to inquire about Chris Benoit becoming Grand Slam Champion. Benoit never won the WWE European Championship that is required to be a Grand Slam. But why is his name in the List of GSC's? Edraf 23:51, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- The only reference to Benoit I can find on the GSC page is this [4], where it lists him as a WCW GSC, not a WWF/WWE one.--Toffile 01:05, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
- I thought the Grand Slam was all major belts in a promotion - heavyweight, #2 title (IC, X Division) and the tag team belts. I was never aware minor or discontinued belts had to be counted. If that was the case WWE would have no Grand Slam winners, since Bret Hart never held the light heavyweight title, for example. BronzeWarrior 01:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
- Winning the Grand Slam Championship could only happen if you captured the WWE Championship, the Intercontinental Championship, the European Championship and the World Tag Team Championship. Since the European Championship is extinct, there will be no more Grand Slam Champions in the WWE. The X-Division title is TNA only not WWE. And the Light-Heavyweight Championship is excluded from this also. If Benoit never won the European Championship, then he is NOT a Grand Slam Champion. Moe ε 02:42, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
- I thought the Grand Slam was all major belts in a promotion - heavyweight, #2 title (IC, X Division) and the tag team belts. I was never aware minor or discontinued belts had to be counted. If that was the case WWE would have no Grand Slam winners, since Bret Hart never held the light heavyweight title, for example. BronzeWarrior 01:43, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Slight Correction on what I said. I said there will be no more Grand Slam Champions in WWE, but I was wrong, these are the following people who can achieve Grand Slam Champion status if they can obtain the other championships too:
- Slight Correction on what I said. I said there will be no more Grand Slam Champions in WWE, but I was wrong, these are the following people who can achieve Grand Slam Champion status if they can obtain the other championships too:
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Currently employeed by WWE
- Shane McMahon - He's not going to get anymore championship reigns
- Mark Henry - still needs tag titles, IC title and WWE title
- Val Venis - needs tag team and WWE title
- Al Snow - employeed by WWE but working at OVW
- Matt Hardy - needs WWE title but thats on RAW
- JBL - only needs IC title; but thats on RAW
- Gregory Helms - still needs IC and WWE title
- William Regal - only needs WWE title but thats on the RAW brand
- Rob Van Dam - safest bet as to the next GSC will be; only needs WWE title but I doubt WWE will hand him the strap
Not employeed by WWE but could get GSC status if they returned
- D'Lo Brown
- X-Pac
- Mideon
- Jeff Jarrett
- Perry Saturn
- Test
- Christian
- Diamond Dallas Page
- Spike Dudley
- Jeff Hardy
In conclusion, like I said, there will probably be no more Grand Slam Champions. Moe ε 03:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
- The WWF described Michaels as a Grand Slam Champion after he won the WWF World Heavyweight Championship, the WWF Intercontinental Championship, the WWF European Championship and the WWF World Tag Team Championship. That is canon. The current article recognises the World Heavyweight Championship and the WWE Tag Team Championship as components of the Grand Slam, which is debatable. However, the US Championship is not part of the Grand Slam (and even if it was, it would presumably be interchangeable with the IC Title, not the European Title - the WCW TV Title was the third tier heavyweight singles belt in WCW, not the US Title). No-one can be a (WWF/E) Grand Slam Champion who was not a European Champion. McPhail 12:59, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
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- I saw where it said World Heavyweight Championship and WWE Tag Team Championship, they actually link to the correct titles. The Championship actually needed to make the GSC status is the WWE Championship, which is properly linked in the article but under the wrong name. I will change it to where it cites it properly. Same with the tag championships. About that matter with the European Championship, everyone I listed above HAS hade the European championship before and the titles listed next to the name are the one's they haven't got yet. I agree that the US title would be interchangeable with the IC title, not the European. In conclusion, I don't think there will be anymore GSC unless Mark Henry, Val Venis, Matt Hardy, JBL, Gregory Helms, William Regal or RVD can get the rest of thier accomplishments filled. Moe ε 18:21, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
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- I don't want to beat a dead horse, but since WWE European Championship says that RVD unified it with the WWE Intercontinental Championship, couldn't one argue that anybody holding the IC belt is effectively qualified to win the Grand Slam whether they held the old Euro title or not? BronzeWarrior 07:43, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
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- It's possible but for the sake of simplicity, let's not go in that direction. If you go with that idea, than anyone who would have won the World Heavyweight Championship in early 2003 would be a World Heavyweight Champion, Intercontinental Champion, European Champion, U.S. Champion, Hardcore Champion and Maybe even an NWA National Heavyweight Champion. Anyone who wins the WWE Championship could also be considered a WCW Champion since the new World Heavyweight is not the WCW championship. You could make that arguement, but it's confusing and the titles aren't really considered "unified" belts like in boxing. Basically, the other belt's guy is the number one contender for the more important title.--Darren Jowalsen 00:10, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
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- I'll grant that simplicity is preferred to compexity but unfortunately since WWE kayfabed "unifying" the belts it's a little hard to untangle that knot. I know they freely disregard their own continuity at every opportunity and screw-up their own storylines so badly they routinely have to retcon explanations in, but when they present a unification match on TV and say "whoever wins this match combines both titles into one belt" it's hard to ignore the implication. However for the sake of ending this debate I'll just leave it at this - when Stone Cold reintroduced the IC title during his tenure as Raw GM, it's fair to say that he broke it apart from the European title unification in the process. As such they could reintroduce the European title seperately as well, it's just that it's such a minor title they've never bothered to. (Which makes one question why the Euro title would be a qualification to being a Grand Slam winner, but oh well.) BronzeWarrior 00:16, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
- I understand a Grand Slam Champion as being a person who has been able to capture "every major title the WWE has to offer". As stated by Shawn Michaels in his book. So... With that said I would have to argue (much to my disappointment ) that it is just that - Every major title that the WWE currently has to offer. So it does not need the European title (since it's not current). I believe the only titles that would not be needed would be woman titles, and light weight titles.
- I'll grant that simplicity is preferred to compexity but unfortunately since WWE kayfabed "unifying" the belts it's a little hard to untangle that knot. I know they freely disregard their own continuity at every opportunity and screw-up their own storylines so badly they routinely have to retcon explanations in, but when they present a unification match on TV and say "whoever wins this match combines both titles into one belt" it's hard to ignore the implication. However for the sake of ending this debate I'll just leave it at this - when Stone Cold reintroduced the IC title during his tenure as Raw GM, it's fair to say that he broke it apart from the European title unification in the process. As such they could reintroduce the European title seperately as well, it's just that it's such a minor title they've never bothered to. (Which makes one question why the Euro title would be a qualification to being a Grand Slam winner, but oh well.) BronzeWarrior 00:16, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Now taking a liberty for a moment I would say you only have to get every title on one of the brands. Or to take a even larger liberty - Only needing to get one of every title (mixing up between brands)... But this paragraph is with out question my personal POV--Anthony 07:02, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
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Opponent or victim
We should make a decision on which to use; "wrestler and opponent" or "attacker and victim." I personally find the first preferable.
↪Lakes (Talk) 20:31, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
Pictures
Hey, I'm new here, do you guys know where I can get pictures of Lou Thesz or Strangler Lewis, that aren't copyrighted?
- Welcome! You may want to consider signing up for an account, that way you can keep tracks of your edits and uploads, and sign your posts with four tilde (~) to identify yourself. It's not easy to find non-copyrighted photos of anybody these days considering Congress keeps extending it to infinity (that's not NPOV but screw it, that's how I feel) but you could always get permission from an actual copyright owner to upload a photo for the limited purpose of improving a Wikipedia entry. BronzeWarrior 07:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
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- If a photograph is uploaded with the proper tag, it can be used, even if the image is copyrighted. As an NPO, Wikipedia assumes "fair use" for images that are used merely to illustrate the subject of an article. - Chadbryant 00:03, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
ECW Another One Night Stand
Hey guys,
Just thought I'd let you know that I've added an article for the upcoming ECW pay-per-view "ECW Another One Night Stand". Proof of this was given at the Raw house show on February 18, 2006. (Normy 08:25, 20 February 2006 (UTC)).
Tag team trivia
The following is taken from the trivia section of the World Tag Team Championship article:
- With the release of The Heart Throbs and the breakup of Lance Cade and Trevor Murdoch, there are no dedicated tag teams left on Raw. This marks the first time in WWWF/WWF/WWE history where there has not been a single dedicated tag team, including the champions (who are primarily singles wrestlers), left to compete for the World Tag Team Championship. (There are still dedicated tag teams competing for the SmackDown! equivalent, the WWE Tag Team Championship.)
- <!-- Some argue that the team of Val Venis and Viscera, collectively known as V-Squared, should be considered a dedicated tag team, but that seems a stretch, given that Viscera is still mainly a singles wrestler, as illustrated by the fact that he wrestled six of his last eight matches as a singles wrestler, including his PPV appearance at New Year's Revolution. They certainly aren't a team in the way that, say, MNM is, and the fact that they are being featured as not only a team but as the top contenders for the belts only illustrate that there really are no teams left at all. -->
Surley this is POV... isnt it???... i think it should be removed esspecally as i would consider Tomko and Snitsky a tag team aswell --- Paulley 10:07, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
- Is it POV? Seems to be stating a fact, though it could probably use a rewrite.Bdve 19:02, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Machete
The page for Machete (Wrestler) was mostly about Joey Machete, while the TNA stuff on that page is about a different guy, also named Machete -- he used to work as "Ricky Vega.".
Pics for comparison: Joey Machete: http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/pictures/b/blackmarket/01.jpg
TNA's Machete: http://www.tnapics.com/albums/ppvlive/2006/feb12/IMG_7537.jpg
Ricky Vega: http://www.whipperinterviews.coms.ph/images/dsc09845.jpg
Anyway, I created a new page for Joey Machete and split the content up between 'em. As soon as TNA updates their roster page we'll be able to fill out Machete's profile a little more. --Karlos the Jackal 03:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
- Sorry about that. McPhail 08:18, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
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- No problem. There seems to be some confusion on this point on a few message boards, too, which is where I found out that Joey Machete even existed. --Karlos the Jackal 10:55, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
World Tag Team Championship
Just to let you guys know, I've put up a move request for World Tag-Team Championship to be renamed to World Tag Team Championship. --Oakster 06:51, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
- I would suggest that much like World Heavyweight Championship (WWE), the article should be moved to World Tag Team Championship (WWE). - Chadbryant 23:52, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
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- I'm a tad bit unsure over that. While there was the Omaha version of the World Heavyweight Championship which concluded the need for parenthesis, was there any other title just named the World Tag Team Championship? --Oakster 09:04, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Until the early 1980s, various NWA members promoted their own version of a "World Tag Team Championship". While they are generally redacted in current listings (i.e. NWA World Tag Team Championship [Detroit version]), they were most often promoted under the generic "World Tag Team Championship" name. - Chadbryant 13:25, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
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- Unlike the World Heavyweight Championship which was a very generic name, the term "World Tag Team Championship" is one purely in the realms of professional wrestling. Having just looked at WP:DAB, I think it's best if we make an additional disambiguation page for the NWA variations as most people looking up "World Tag Team Championship" here would tend to be looking for the WWE championship, rather than the generic term. --Oakster 19:09, 28 February 2006 (UTC
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