Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Archive 5

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Archive 5

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Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project

Hello, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? I have already identified Stone Cold Steve Austin, Chris Benoit and Hulk Hogan, and perhaps Jesse Ventura. What do you think? Please post all your suggestions here. Thanks a lot! Walkerma 22:02, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd have to say World Wrestling Entertainment, World Championship Wrestling, and National Wrestling Alliance would be my picks (perhaps with some editing). --HBK 22:24, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I would also have to possibly nominate the Shawn Michaels, Triple H (Paul Levesque) and the Undertaker (Mark Calaway) articles. SWD316 ^{talk to me} 23:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I've heard that articles should have good lead sections because the consensus was that the lead should be what the paper version of the article is for Wikipedia 1.0. So we'd have to find some articles with leads that can stand alone in terms of describing their subject matter. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think any of the professional wrestling articles are anywhere near that level of quality. Even the best articles have considerable structural problems and frequently blur fact and fiction. McPhail 15:43, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I just took a look at the criteria and I don't know of any professional wrestling articles that qualify as A or B-class. The ones mentioned do have some organization and factual issues, could use reputable citations (preferably print sources) and have some other issues as well. The Jesse Ventura one is the most promising one, but could use a citation for some of the content. --Jtalledo (talk) 19:42, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the comments so far! The articles aren't expected to be all perfect, and even a good B-class article (e.g. no citations, and perhaps one or two missing/weak sections) is probably worth noting. The ones I mentioned looked good to me (not an expert!), as long as there is not a blur of fact and fiction (as mentioned above). Thanks again, I'll be checking in here regularly. Walkerma 23:25, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Clean up stuff

I noticed that the wrestler infoboxes have use quotes for wrestler heights. If anyone sees this, convert it according to use the standard symbols "ft." and "in." according to Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates_and_numbers)#Measurements.

Could we make the titles and achievements just a list instead of breaking it up into subheaders? It seems like a good idea to avoid making too many subheaders. --Jtalledo (talk) 19:55, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

It was origionally in a list for but people believed it took up too much space and wanted it split into sub-sections... if i remeber rightly --- Paulley 20:29, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, what I'm saying is we could make each wrestling promotion that the title was won in into a list element, and put the titles as lists under the promotion name. --Jtalledo (talk) 23:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Pro Wrestling GOO
- 1-Time PWGOO Heavyweight Champion
- 7-Time PWGOO Tag Team Champion

Pro Wrestling GOO
- 1-Time PWGOO Heavyweight Champion
- 7-Time PWGOO Tag Team Champion

That doesn't look very good. I do agree that there is really no need for the subheaders, and they were added just because of aesthetic need, and people with 15 different promotions weren't considered. We need to invent something that looks better than this.

↪Lakes 05:33, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

It doesn't look that bad. The only difference is the indentations. I think it looks better that having them appear as sections in the table of contents. I suppose we could use tables (or preferably succession boxes) instead, but we'd need some more data to put in there. --Jtalledo (talk) 06:11, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

What about a simple two column table with promotions in one column and belts in the other? McPhail 17:24, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW 2006

I have been trying my best to sift out the vandalism on this page for weeks but it is starting to get rediculous... if some more of you can pop into its history once and a while to check edits it would be much appriciated... just to let you know how bad it is, i left the article for 24hrs and there was over 100 anon edits of vandalism --- Paulley 18:15, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

The main area effected is the game's Roster esspecially the legends section --- Paulley

I'll watch it for changes and rv when necessary, but it should stop as the game nears its release date. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:32, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

nothing really

This isnt anything special but i'd just thought i would metion that wikipedia wrestling articles are being used as references by some top websites (IGN wrestler bio and ASK PW second Q down)... i know thats what they are there for but it's just nice to see it in action --- Paulley 19:29, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Our WikiProject page

Hello everyone. I cleaned-up our WikiProject page by sorting some stuff out. I added a calendar on the page so we could keep track of some project dates, if we have any, and our personal dates. Personal dates such as birthdays, anniversaries, wikipedia anniversaries and things like that. Hope you all are not mad at me for this. SWD316 ^{talk to m}e 18:01, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

PS. I'll update the calendar for 2006 when it occurs!. Also to add some thing to the calendar type in:

Example:
In October; my birthday is on the 24th so next to the 24 you would type in
<br>SWD316's birthday.

SWD316 ^{talk to m}e 18:09, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't see why general should have its own subpage. It's only three items so far and wouldn't make the project page too long. I personally don't see the need or use for a calendar (yet).

And it feels like I've said this a dozen times, but I'd really appreciate if you thinked your post through before posting so you don't need to re-edit it ten times. I hit an edit conflict twice while trying to reply now.

↪Lakes 18:11, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Is there a way we can work with the infobox subsection so it is more clear about what variable does what, as well as make it so it doesn't look broken, as it does now? --LBMixPro ^{(Speak on it!)} 04:57, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Promotion statbox

User:Revolt has recently made and been adding the template "Template:Pwcompanybox" to different Japanese promotion pages like All Japan Pro Wrestling. I had been kicking around this idea for a while since things like baseball teams have statboxes. Well, what do you guys think about this? There are technical problems with the template and we may need to omit or change a few fields like "Sister" to "Afiliate" and possibly taking out the Style field. --Darren Jowalsen 02:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

The possible choises for style could be Lucha, Strong, Shoot, and .. American? Perhaps better to make the style item optional and only include it for those who match the first three. Sister and affiliate could go, although they are optional already.

↪Lakes 08:39, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Well if you do keep the Style option you can use the List of professional wrestling styles page as reference --- Paulley 14:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I quite like the template. There's a suggestion I might make and that is is there any chance you can make it so that the promotion logo's size is not dependant on the template? The 200px width is perfectly fine with the TNA logo but makes the WWE logo look too big. --Oakster 21:47, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I see no problem with taking the 200px out. But we could simply upload a larger version of the image, so WP would size it down to 200px, making it more clear. I suggest the styles field stay. All we need to do is give instructions on what to put to that field at the project and the template's talk pages. But what would be considered an "affiliate" or "sister" organization? Is it a developmental territory? Or is it part of a larger entity, such as the NWA? --LBMixPro ^{(Speak on it!)} 11:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd say any other promotion the company has strong ties with. CMLL and New Japan are both part of the "G-1 World" alliance so I put New Japan as CMLL's affiliate. Development territories would definitely fall under that and if the promotion is aligned with the NWA, I'd say put it in the affiliate section.--Darren Jowalsen 23:15, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Hi - You can change the script and things in the boxes to see fit, it was something I was trying after seeing the soccer club pages like Rangers F.C. and so on. Sister was for a sister promotion like Full Impact Pro Wrestling (FIP) is a sister promotion of Ring Of Honor (ROH). There isn't many though... There is more things like affiliate - AWA for ZERO1-MAX and then all the NWA things. It was more about getting a nice layout with the promotion logo and some details under it.--Revolt 18:32, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

User:PWI500

User:PWI500 has created multiple articles containing nothing other than a template. Suggestions? McPhail 23:59, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, he's trying to fill in every red link in the World Tag-Team Champions template. Personally I don't agree with having articles with just the template on it's own but whether somebody should write up some details on the wrestlers or just delete the articles is up to you. --Oakster 07:18, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Make sure the articles have been stubbed and have a category and then place them on the articles to recreate... then hopefully one of us will go on to make an article out of them --- Paulley 11:08, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

World Wide Wrestling Alliance

Please can you guys check out Talk:World Wide Wrestling Alliance and the history of the article. Anon User:24.104.5.25 keeps removing the information placed on the article and replacing it with a heavly POV article stating that 3WA are thefts of the REAL WWWA... i have asked him to create a new article about the his promotion or add the information in a section on the article but he has not listened... any ideas --- Paulley 14:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

In the same vein a user known as Susqwrestling has created an article Susquehanna Wrestling Organization... the writing of the article is very reminisant to the anon user and is a link from the anon's only non WWWA edit.. Even the two website from both the links shows a resembelance, are the users the same person???, do they/he/she work on indy promtions' websites???, or are/is they/he/she just a vandal??? i will let you decide --- Paulley 15:01, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Possibly. This Susquehanna promotion is in Central Pennsylvania and an Reverse DNS Lookup] of 24.104.5.25 reveals that it originates from York, Pennsylvania, which is also in Central Pennsylvania. I'm not sure this Susquehanna thing should have its own article. --Jtalledo (talk) 15:30, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Champion boxes

Okay. I haven't liked the Champion boxes - they are clunky and get really big. But Template:WorldTagTeamChampions is just too darn huge. If someone wants to look at a champion lineage, they can look on the page of that championship. Could someone delete all the duplicate entries in the existing ones and maybe delete the WorldTagTeamChampions one as well? --Jtalledo (talk) 15:36, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Template:WorldTagTeamChampions is tagged for deletion - vote for or against it at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:WorldTagTeamChampions --Jtalledo (talk) 17:21, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

The Rock moved to Dwayne Johnson

Chaosfeary moved The Rock (entertainer) to Dwayne Johnson. Anybody else think that isn't such a great move? He's still credited as "The Rock" in his latest movies, including Doom. --Jtalledo (talk) 19:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I would just put it back to The Rock (entertainer), simply because of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common_names) --LBMixPro ^{(Speak on it!)} 20:41, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

How about moving it to Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson? I heard someone call him that on a interview on HBO. SWD316 ^{talk to m}e 20:46, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

That's a bit of a mouthful... either leave it where it is or move it back to The Rock (entertainer). McPhail 21:55, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Put it back The Rock (entertainer), that's how he's billed in movies and reports say that WWE does not soley own the name anymore.--Darren Jowalsen 22:05, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Moved it back to The Rock (entertainer). --Jtalledo (talk) 22:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

List of WWE Women's Championship reigns by length

Do we really need to List of WWE Women's Championship reigns by length, it seems a little trivial. There's already List of WWE Women's Champions and just a quick mention about the longest reigns in the right articles like WWE Women's Championship should suffice. --Jtalledo (talk)

There's one for all of the current WWE belts. The most neccessary set of articles to be quite honest but I don't mind them being here. --Oakster 18:20, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The articles are a nice idea but require daily maintenance, which means that we are reliant on the creators to continue updating the articles regularly. 88.104.30.160 21:45, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that's part of what I don't like about them. This data is probably available elsewhere on the web, in which case we could link to that. Otherwise, you can calculate the number of days yourself or using a simple tool that's probably available on various websites. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:12, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

WWE Roster

There has been a massive number of times the WWE roster page has been vandalized and shifted everyday. I think something has to be done about that. Also I added a couple a new categories on the page. One is the juniors section. I thought it might need it. Also, I retitled Non-Wrestlers and Managers to Managers and Part-time wrestlers. How many people are just non-wrestlers? I think the category renaming was nessecary. Also, I took Stone Cold Steve Austin and Mick Foley and put them under those categories. I saw on the internet that Stone Cold's and Foley's contract was only for a max. number of 2 matches a year. The vandalism is probabaly worrying me the most right now though. SWD316 ^{talk to m}e 00:05, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Good call on the section renaming; I don't think vandalism is that big a problem, but I'll revert it if there's anything erroneous added. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Champion tables

I'm going to remove duplicate entries from the champion tables if no one has a problem with it. I don't like them all that much because of how big they are and how big they can get; I think that succession boxes are the way to go, but at least they should be small and not unwieldy. The tables will still be organized by which wrestler got the title first, but to see details about multiple reigns, someone will take a look at the list of title holders. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd rather completely waste all the championship tables from articles which already have a template associated with the title. Why repeat the same thing twice, and make a template more useless? --LBMixPro ^{(Speak on it!)} 22:42, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I think reducing multiple entries would more or less make the tables useless. Merely removing from articles where appropriate would get my vote. McPhail

I'd vote for getting rid of the boxes altogether and replace them with a standard succession box. That standard needs to be decided, though.

↪Lakes 18:05, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Just to clarify, by "champion tables" I meant those templates at the bottom of some of the articles. --Jtalledo (talk) 23:16, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Spoiling and how to counter it

Recently there has been much spoiling due to the fact that Total Nonstop Action Wrestling tapes its Impact! shows in advance. I was thinking it would be great if MediaWiki (the wiki program wikipedia runs on) would allow you to add messages to pages that people are about to edit. For example, adding a template to the bottom of a page would display a message above the edit box when you open it for editing, similar to the "You're editing an out of date page!" message you see now when you're editing a version of a page that isn't the latest one.

For the pro wrestling pages I was thinking we could really use a "No spoiling, please only include events that have aired already on tv."

I was thinking about submitting a feature request to MediaWiki, and am now asking your opinions. Would this be useful and worth the effort, do you think?
↪Lakes 10:14, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Kitch recently made a template called Template:Kayfabe which he's used for recent TNA shows. I suppose we can slightly edit this or create ones based on this to use on belts, pay-per-view sections, etc. for now. The only downfall is that we can't use them for the actual wrestlers themselves as that would be indicating that there is a spoiler as such. As for the MediaWiki suggestion, I can see quite a lot of advantages over it and not just from professional wrestling articles. I personally would give MediaWiki the feature suggestion.--Oakster 14:04, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

The HTML comments should suffice. We could make them more obtrusive, so we force them to read it before actually editing the list. The alternative would be to use a template, making it harder for new users to edit. We could put the notice before the calling of the template as well in the source of the template. That seems like overkill though. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:05, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Spoiler

This does not pertain to the discussion above. On the Current World Wrestling Entertainment roster I put a spoiler message above the Inactive List section because it could possibly spoil the debut of a wrestler or reasoning behind a wrestlers absense. I dont known if I worded it correctly though. SWD316 ^{talk to m}e 23:38, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

PWI500 and 69.119.152.127

I noticed in a conversation I had with 69.119.152.127 that we were discussing an issue about Jim Ross and Stone Cold. He responded but under the name PWI500. PWI500 wrote on my talk page, not 5 minutes after I was talking to 69.119.152.127, about Stone Cold/JR. I'm no genius but it seems they are the same person. Isn't there some rule against this. 69.119.152.127 is a vandal and gets blocked then he creates an account as PWI500? SWD316 ^{talk to m}e 18:22, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Renaming TNA categories

I have no idea where to put this under in the To-Do list, so I'm going to post it here instead. I've just listed some of TNA's categories that are named "Total Nonstop Action" instead of "Total Nonstop Action Wrestling" for renaming. You can check out the nomination here. --Oakster 23:10, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

El Gran Luchadore

There's some argument over whether wrestlers, specifically Kurt Angle should have El Gran Luchadore listed under their in-ring names. I don't believe they should - the names part of the infobox should be relegated to nicknames they actually used regularly. People looking at it might think they actually competed regularly under the name, which in Kurt Angle's case is particularly inaccurate since he's competed under his name for the vast majority of his career. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:15, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

It's not a question of nicknames, it's a question of a character depicted by multiple wrestlers. El Gran Luchadore was depicted by three wrestlers, Paul London, Shannon Moore and Kurt Angle, all of whom have the name included in their respective pwstatboxes. This is the same procedure that has been used for all the articles in Category:Professional wrestling gimmicks thus far. McPhail 18:34, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how the procedure relates to that category, but it doesn't seem appropriate to include the nickname in any of their stat boxes, since it's not a major part of their wrestling career at all, unlike their height, weight and other facts. --Jtalledo (talk) 21:21, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

William Welch

Hello everybody. I'm not on the members list for this WikiProject, but I'm interested in the goings-on as I have created and edited several Wiki articles on pro wrestling myself. Recently I created a page for The Messiah but I don't think I have the hang of the statbox function yet. I notice somebody fixed one of my errors, which was a link to a photo that didn't exist, and I appreciate the help. The question is - how do I upload an image of Welch to the page? There are several effective ones that could be used which appear on OWW. BronzeWarrior 08:52, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Welcome. I hope you consider joining this WikiProject. To upload a file, use the "Upload file" link in your toolbox which is normally on the left-hand side of the page. Then use [[Image:YourImageNameHere.ext]] (placing the correct image file name inside) to display the image on the page. More detailed information can be found at Wikipedia:Images.

Also, in the future while creating articles on professional wrestlers, you might want to add more information to the lead - specifically why this wrestler is important enough to be included in Wikipedia. This is an issue with a lot of professional wrestler articles - there's a ton of them on Wikipedia (over 400 people are listed in Category:American professional wrestlers), but hardly any of them have information on why that wrestler is notable (and most times, there might not be enough importance for inclusion). See Wikipedia:Notability for more information.

Thanks and again, welcome! --Jtalledo (talk) 14:14, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

By all means Jtalledo, you're the one I should thank. All of the information you've provided is very useful. As for joining, do I make an application to you, or do I just edit my name onto the already available memberlist? The thought had crossed my mind before I posted, but I figured that was (A.) rude and (B.) would be poorly received since nobody knows me from Adam & Eve. If I formally join I'll do my best to help out with Wiki articles on wrestling when and where I can. Also as to your note about putting information in the lead, I appreciate the tip. I had inquired on the XPW discussion page if Welch's bio was worth adding (I realize in hindsight I should have posted it here, I doubt that discussion is viewed or read much) but eventually decided he was "an important figure" in wrestling and that I should just create the entry. I didn't want to dump all of the big news about him in the lead, since my story-writing inclination was to build up the entry until the climactic point he left for CZW and was assaulted in his home, but I do realize now the lead could have at least mentioned that he was a multi-time heavyweight champion in different major promotions who had a unique and interesting history. I'll make sure to build what makes a wrestler notable into the lead if I make a new entry from here on. One additional thought - I sometimes find the most interesting wrestling careers are the guys who are simply used as jobbers for years and go little noticed by casual marks. While a few guys like the Brooklyn Brawler transcend this status, a lot more guys like Iron Mike Sharpe are little recognized outside hardcore fans. In my roundabout way I guess I'm getting to this question - do you consider a guy who had a long career and a lot of stats but no major world titles "notable" as such? Or here's another question - we all remember wrestlers like David Sammartino and Greg Gagne just because of who their fathers were, but does that make them "notable" as such? It's a lot to ponder. BronzeWarrior 10:21, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

WorldTagTeamChampions Template

I was just going over some edits when I saw this rather large template. I know many of you have already noticed it. I tried to shorten it by deleting the team names. Example: LOD, Right To Censor, The Godwinns. I think PWI500 has gone a little far with his edits. Also, PWI500 has been creating articles that need some attention they are:

First off Ken Stasiowski and Kenny Stasiowski need to be merged together. I think all of these articles are stubbed but need to be wiki-fied. SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 00:14, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

The template was put up on Templates for deletion a while ago. The consensus was to delete - I recently took out references to it on all the professional wrestler and tag team articles it was used on. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:20, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Argh. That's a bunch of new wrestler articles that might not be notable. --Jtalledo (talk) 00:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

OVWSouthernTagChampions Template

Do we really need an OVW SouthernTag Team Champions template? It doesn't seem very useful and the titles themselves aren't very notable. --Jtalledo (talk) 02:14, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I think PWI500 made a championship template for the OVW titles, WCW titles, KOTR winners & Royal Rumble winners. Do we really need them? SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 19:17, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

If you ask me, we should do away with using all of these templates in the first place. They chronicle the lineage and title holders of a title, which are already covered in the articles of those titles. Templates are just fine if we're talking about data that has a reasonably defined upper bound on how many items are in the template, but with something like championships, they could theoretically go on forever. They should be substituted with succession boxes. --Jtalledo (talk) 21:22, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

All the belt boxes should be erased, however KOTR or Royal Rumble winners could stay in that format since they probably never will become too long. G1 Climax winners could be another one that could use a template in that format.

Lakes 21:47, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Not sure how the Royal Rumble box would stay small, considering that it's an ongoing event. Maybe the KOTR one could be stay small since the title is no longer given, but it seems more apt for a succession box as well. --Jtalledo (talk) 21:51, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we should limit the templates to inactive titles since we know how long they are going to be. Except when it comes to the Tag Titles because those are exteremly long. SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 01:38, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

That would be a good idea, but I still think succession boxes are far more appropriate. The tag team ones would be too big though. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:46, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we could have the templates for the inactive titles and succession boxes for the active titles. Also for the inactive tag titles, instead of the template, we could do the succesion boxes so the there are no huge templates. The other inactive templates shouldn't be that big. SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 01:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I went to go find all the championship templates there were and this is what I found. If I missed any, Im sure I did, list them here. So, are we going to go with my idea above or are we going to do another plan? SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 02:54, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

WWE:
Active:

~~Template:WWEchampions - WWE Championship~~
Template:WWEICchampions - Intercontinental Championship
Template:WWEWomenschampions - WWE Womens Championship
Template:WorldTagTeamChampions - World Tag Team Championship This one is up for deletion
Template:WWEHeavyweight - World Heavyweight Championship
Template:WWEUSchampions - United States Championship
Template:CruiserweightChampions - Cruiserweight Championship
Template:WWETagchampions - WWE Tag Team Championship
~~Template:RoyalRumbleWinners - Royal Rumble Winners~~
Template:WWEEurochampions - European Championship
Template:WWELWChampions - Light Heavyweight Championship
~~Template:KOTRWinners - King of the Ring Winners~~

OVW:

Template:OVWHeavyweightChampionship - OVW Heavyweight Championship
~~Template:OVWTVChampionship - Television Championship~~
Template:OVWSouthernTagChampions - Southern Tag Team Championship
~~Template:OVWHardcoreChampionship - OVW Hardcore Championship~~

WCW, ECW, TNA, Others

Template:WCWchampions - WCW Heavyweight Championship
Template:WCWWorldTelevisionChampionship - WCW Television Championship
Template:WCWHardcoreTitle - WCW Hardcore Championship
Template:ECWChampions - ECW Heavyweight Championship
Template:ECWTVchampions- ECW Television CHampionship
Template:NWATNAChampions - TNA Heavyweight Championship
Template:NWATNATagTeamChampions - TNA Tag Team Championship
Template:XDivisionChampions - TNA X-Division Championship
Template:ROHChampions - Ring Of Honor Heavyweight CHampionship
Template:ROHPureChampions - Ring Of Honor Pure Championship
Template:IWGPchampions - IWGP Heavyweight championship

We should do away with all of those. No matter if they are inactive or not. Just replace all with succession boxes.

On the Rumble bit, yes it's ongoing, but it's a yearly event, so the list will get too long in 30 years or so.

Lakes 09:41, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah we really dont need them as long as we have the List of Champions of the Championship's page itself. I just got 3 questions.

Are there anymore championship templates that are not listed here?
How do we get rid of these templates once we are not using them anymore?
When should I start getting rid of the templates and replacing them with succession boxes?

SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 13:57, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I got rid of the templates for the WWE Champions and the Royal Rumble Winners, I put succession boxes there instead. Any Comments? SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 16:13, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I have no objection to removing the live templates from articles, but I think they should be retained in the championship articles. Arguing that "they could theoretically go on forever" is not a convincing argument; virtually any template that deals with an ongoing situation will inevitably become very large at some point in the future. This argument could be used against any article without a set time frame McPhail 19:34, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

It's a valid argument because unlike articles, which could have sections summarized or split off into main articles (History of Foo, Arguments against Foo) etc., templates like these can't be split or summarized easily. In any case, the other arguments hold - this is redundant information that's already in wikilinked articles in greater detail and the templates aren't very useful as navigation if they get too big. --Jtalledo (talk) 22:11, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

So why dont we keep the template on the page of the championship or title and take the template off the actual wrestlers page. I think what he was trying to say when he said "it could theoretically go on forever", I think he was trying to say that the championships that are active are going to continue to grow for a unset amount of time and make that template grow on the wrestlers page. It couldn't "theoretically go on forever" if the title was inactive, but I still think we should do away with the championship templates on the wrestlers page. So there is no objections to me taking the templates off the wrestlers pages as I have already for the WWE Championship and Royal Rumble winners? SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 00:45, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I recently found an incomplete Template:WWE Hardcore Champions and put it up for deletion. While I do agree that inactive templates shouldn't really be removed as their title histories are finished, but if this template was completed, it would be as long if not longer than the Tag Team title templates. You can check out the nomination here. --Oakster 13:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Eddie Guerrero

There has been alot of vandalizism on the Eddie Guerrero article as of late, we need protection on it so vandals cant vandalize it anymore. There has been at least 100 cases of vandalizism on it today alone. Oh, and by the way, Rest in Peace, Eddie. SWD316 ^{talk to m}^e 21:51, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Professional wrestling Collaboration of the Moment

I was going to propose this earlier, but the unfortunate passing of Eddie Guerrero is proper motivation to get everyone colloborate on the article. Similar to other collaborations, the idea would be to propose an article related to professional wrestling for collaboration to get it close to or at featured article status as possible. The span of time for the collaboration is indefinite - maybe a week or two weeks is enough. At any rate, I'll work on the Eddie Guerrero entry and if anyone else wants to do the same, that would be great. --Jtalledo (talk) 23:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this as well. There are quite a few articles like Davey Boy Smith, Junkyard Dog and others that have really wimpy articles.--Darren Jowalsen 01:48, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

It would be a good idea to get a format set for some of these article first though. --Jtalledo (talk) 01:50, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I have done some major clean-up to the Eddie Guerrero article and I think it is almost FA material now! SWD316 18:36, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Good job. It could use some references though. The tribute on WWE.com and his profile on Obsessed with Wrestling should have most of the material in the article. Again, the articles looking really good now. Thanks to everybody who worked on it. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:03, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Criteria for Notability 2

I have an idea surrounding the "Criteria for Notability" problem. Why dont we have a set of guidelines that the criteria must meet. It would keep the majority of the good/notable articles and get rid of the one's that simple say "He/She was a professional wrestler" and will get rid of most stubs. I am throwing this idea out here because I know I added on to the problem with the un-notable wrestlers. I created a couple of the pages I want to delete now. I just want some thoughts to a potential policy we could have. (PS. this policy wouldn't mean they couldn't be mentioned, but they couldn't have thier own article). Any thoughts??? SWD316 01:02, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Possible Policy:

1. The wrestler must have wrestled or currently be wrestling in one of the top-promotions in order to have it's own article:

Current Promotions

Defunct Promotions
- World Championship Wrestling
- Extreme Championship Wrestling

--OR--
2. The wrestler must be listed under PWI 500 best singles competitors in order for him/her to have thier own article.

I think this answers some of the question I raised in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Professional_wrestling#William_Welch nicely. Under that definition, guys like Iron Mike Sharpe would definitely merit listing. Also I went ahead and added my name to the "membership" for this WikiProject. That question was not answered, but since both JT and SWD316 posted that they hoped I would join I assumed this was a de facto "invitation." I hope I didn't break protocol by doing so, and I look forward to helping out. R.I.P. Eddie. BronzeWarrior 04:43, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Glad you decided to join. Welcome aboard. This project isn't perfect, but no WikiProject is. We do some pretty good things though I think. Apologies for not replying - I hadn't noticed that there was a reply to the previous posting.

As for the Criteria for Notability, I think it's definitely something we could use. I do think that we should only take the top of the PWI 500 instead of all of the wrestlers on the list. In addition to the above criteria, I think that the wrestler should have either won a major title in the federation and/or have been extremely popular, infamous or influential to other major wrestlers. Wrestlecrap inductees could be exceptions to the rule.

Then there's the question about whether or not the criteria applies retroactively to wrestlers who have already been added. I think it would be ideal for similar criteria to be applied for the inclusion of professional wrestling promotions and teams as well, since some of them have been put up for afd in the past. This criteria seems to work pretty well though. --Jtalledo (talk) 20:18, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Well nearly all wrestler articles are about wrestlers who have appeared in at least one of those promotions... in fact you would be hard pressed to find a wrestler on here that hasn't at some point... well thats if you include the top promotions in the UK: Frontier Wrestling Alliance, Irish whip Wrestling, and (Defunct) World of Sport. --- R.I.P EG Paulley 13:22, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we can just start listing potential infractions of this "policy" and put them up for deletion. SWD316 22:11, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Shawn Micheals

Micheals article is in need of clean up and sectioning off in its World Wrestling Entertainment career section... large chunk of which is just about his short fued with Hulk Hogan --- R.I.P EG Paulley 13:22, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Arn Anderson

I spent about an hour trying to make the Arn Anderson page look better. See the previous version before and after. SWD316 18:32, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Alex Greenfield

There was an articlle recently created by an anon user called Alex Greenfield. It's sort of pro wrestling related since he is currently contracted to WWE but he's contracted as a member of the creative team, as you can see on the WWE roster list. I think it should be deleted. SWD316 22:39, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Video game lists?

Would it be a good idea to add a section to every wrestler article listing the games in which that wrestler has appeared? Here's an example for Ric Flair:

Alternatively, we could do a table with two columns (which would take less vertical room). Jeff Silvers 03:18, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe we could stick to having a roster list on the actual video game article and so that way it doesn't add unnessecary info to wrestlers article. SWD316 18:06, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Rec.sport.pro-wrestling

Is anyone else in favour of simply deleting this article? It's still a stub after one year, and the article seems to frequently be an arena for edit wars between people with vendettas against one another. McPhail 22:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

It would be better off deleted. SWD316 23:17, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

194.111.49.152

This user has been adding fallacious personal life stories to various articles, and has invented a character named "Kimberly McMahon-Angle" who they appear determined to interject into factual articles. Needless to say, this should be reverted whenever it occurs. McPhail 17:45, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

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