Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Archive 20

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Archive 20
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Vandals again

170.161.69.82 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) keeps removing infolines from Kenta Kobayashi and Jimmy Rave, I'm at revert 3 so if someone could take over once again. He's vandalized other pages too, and has been blocked for short periods. ↪Lakes (Talk) 18:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll watch him Suriel1981 18:47, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I final-warned him and he seems to have not done anything in an hour. I'm heading out to the pub but I've made a note of his IP. I'll have a look at him again tomorrow. I think admin would ban him for a quite a while on his history but then it's a case of catching him vandalising fairly shortly after a final warning. Suriel1981 19:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Lakes, you can revert blatant vandalism more than 3 times without having to worry about WP:3RR. If you need to have him blocked after he continues, visit WP:AIV and report it there. — Moe 20:51, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Not so Moe, i've been banned for reverting blatant vandalism before. TJ Spyke 00:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Content disputes (more times than not) don't make you safe from violating 3RR. Report the vandals instead of just edit/revert warring with them. There is a line between vandalism, and content disputes. Wars don't solve anything either way, and end with blocks alot of the time. Be patient: the admins will block them if the final warning is up (and they have enough proof to justify it). Fixing the article everytime isn't always the answer, in my opinion. It will get fixed: but revert warring with vandals isn't the solution. RobJ1981 09:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
If it isn't blatantly obvious (like when a picture is pornography :p), then the admins are useless. For example, User talk:The Damaja. They won't call it vandalism, but look at his freakin' talk page! However TJ, while not all of your 3RR bans are deserved, there are a couple that could have gone either way, and the last one was a content dispute. Peace, 声援 -- The Hybrid 13:51, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As someone on the Admin Intervention talkpage put it: "The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Unless you wait a short period of time in which case you can do what you want" Suriel1981 14:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Sign Guy

Look at the WWE.com homepage. Yes, that's right the person called Sign Guy has made the front page of WWE.com. That leads to a question. This guy doesn't have an article. Does he deserve one. Personally, I think he should.

Yes, he is not in any way affilliated with WWE and is just a fan, but many wrestling websites recognize the guy, and today, even WWE.com has several pictures and an article on him. It even has his real name. I would go and create the article, but I think that it would quickly get deleted. Shall I create a article on Sign Guy or not. By the way, Sign Guy at the moment redirects to someone else. Davnel03 22:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

He hasn't done anything notable, thus he doesn't meet WP:N. — Moe 22:48, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
He has too done notable things. He has appeared in nearly every WWE event in the last five years, appeared on a game show (Deal or No Deal), profiled on WWE Confidential, and has appeared, and was profiled in WWE magazine, they also make at several references to him through out the issues. I would give the go ahead, and say he definetly deserves an article. Kris Classic 23:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
No. Big Dick Johnson is more notable, and he doesn't have an article. TJ Spyke 00:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Maybe he deserves to have an article? I really do think both of these men deserve articles, and I would like to hear other's opinions on this. Kris Classic 02:14, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
He's notable because he appeared on a game show? I don't think so.«»bd(talk stalk) 02:20, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't mind either having an article, unfortunately the consensus is that BDJ doesn't need an article. Maybe Sign Guy could just get a mention in the WWE article, the same way some of those regular ECW fans have a mention in the ECW article? TJ Spyke 02:25, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
He's not the original Sign Guy (see ECW). And I don't think the original Sign Guy deserves an article either. If we're not careful we could see Green Lantern Fan with his own Wikipedia page... and that would not be a good thing. Suriel1981 08:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
By the way, BDJ deserves an article, just because he isn't a regular on WWE TV it doesn't mean he shouldn't have a article, does it? Davnel03 16:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

My concern is that this "Sign Guy" is just a fan and I can't see anyone being vaguely interested in an article about him. Appearing on a game show is something countless members of the public have done. He would fail notability. I honestly think the article would fail a "speed delete" so I hope nobody puts hours into creating it. Suriel1981 17:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

The existing PW articles should be cleaned up (or just deleted, if they are completely worthless) before people go off and start creating even more bad articles about non-notable wrestling subjects. Manager Of Champions 18:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
No way, most people known as "fans" should not have their own articles, except maybe that Rainbow Head guy. I agree with Manager of Champions in that we should really focus on cleaning up the important articles rather than create new ones for people that are "flashes in the pan". The crying wrestling fan had his page deleted, and he is far more notable and verifiable than this "sign guy". If you create an article for him, might as well create one for that husband/wife duo who shows up on Ohio area WWE shows with pink and neon green jumpsuits. Booshakla 21:13, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
That is ridiculous. This man has not just appeared as fans, but has been profiled on WWE television and WWE magazine. Kris Classic 00:06, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
No, it is not ridiculous at all. This would fail on so many levels. And I doubt that an article in the WWE magazine can be considered a reliable, independent source. Those magazines are often written in a very kayfabe/fictional style, much of it. Not every single person mentioned by WWE should have an article. Like I've said, there are tons of important articles on notable subjects in terrible shape, let's fix those instead of creating more crap that no one cares about. Booshakla 03:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Nobody cares about it? That is obviously why several people want this article to be made. Just because you don't care doesn't mean that nobody else does. Since you really don't care, how is this in any way hurting you? Also, WWE Magazine is not in any way written in a Kayfabe style, this version doesn't blantally break kayfabe, but it is pretty close. Kris Classic 03:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
WWE Magazine is not written in a kayfabe style, hahaha. Maybe you should read the kayfabe article. TJ Spyke 03:50, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I am curious if you have even read WWE Magazine, since it has been revamped? Sure, they never say wrestling is scripted, but then again they don't seem to be acting very hard to protect it, if even trying at all. In the magazine wrestlers talk about their gimmicks, backstage happenings, etc. Kris Classic 03:55, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
I do read the mag on ocassion. I know it has changed over the years, but it's still written in an in-universe, kayfabe style and it's role as a RS is questionable. And I don't think I am the only one who feels an article like this should be created. We should focus on improving the articles of known notable subjects to high quality rather than try to make articles on those clearly not notable. And you need, multiple, independent resources anyway, and I don't think that can be proven at this point, or ever. Booshakla 07:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Montreal screwjob - first pro wrestling related featured article

Thanks in large part to the user and admin Rama's Arrow (talk • contribs) the article on the Montreal screwjob has been promoted to FA status, the first wrestling article to be successfully promoted. Well that hurdle has finally been jumped over. –– Lid(Talk) 07:29, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

My thanks and congratulations to Rama's Arrow (talk • contribs) and everyone else who has contributed to that article and making it one in a thousand! That's quite a milestone to have achieved. Suriel1981 08:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
THat's awesome, congratulations guys MPJ-DK 21:13, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Congratulations, especially Rama's Arrow. My hat's off to you. --  oakster  TALK  23:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Outstanding job - even Wikipedia can be worked by a professional wrestling angle. Manager Of Champions 01:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Good work to those involved, its nice to finally see an outstanding featured pro wrestling article. --- Paulley

Only just read this. Wow yeh, well done and congrats to all who had a hand in it:o)Halbared 22:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

RD Reynolds for deleteion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/RD_Reynolds ---SilentRAGE! 17:40, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Additional info lines in finishing and signature maneuvers sections

Whatever happened to the proposal to add detail lines to finishing and signature maneuver sections? Consensus seemed to be to add it, or at least no one objected, but it was never added to the style guide or anything. Can I bring it back up and maybe get it added?«»bd(talk stalk) 02:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It was left at the point where people were asked to submit for the guidelines for information inclusion. I started putting the infolines in peoples pages as a test, and they seem to be fine, although some non-registered people try to remove them. You can go ahead and add the guidelines based on the discussions, I'm sure if someone objects or has something to add can start a new discussion here.
↪Lakes (Talk) 10:49, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
That being the link you posted an the followup.
↪Lakes (Talk) 10:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Lashley

Why is Donald Trump listed as Lashley's manager?.. i know he will be ringside for the one match but is it really necessary for that section... i dont think we are gonna add Vince to Umaga's manager list are we? --- Paulley

Someone did, I took it out. They really shouldn't be counted as managers.«»bd(talk stalk) 14:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
It's back again!! heh. Govvy 14:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Added an editors note, not that people pay attention to them.«»bd(talk stalk) 14:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Consensus found regarding iMPACT! and RAW

At Talk:TNA Impact! a consensus has finally been established; the result of the conversation being that Wikipedia guidelines will be followed with regards to the capitalization. This means that iMPACT! will be spelled Impact! in the article title, and in the body of the article itself. RAW will also be spelled Raw in the article title, as well as the article itself. Seeing as Wikipedia guidelines support this, and consensus has been found to follow the guidelines, any edits that go against this consensus are vandalism. Seeing as this affects more than one wrestling article it was decided that this should be mentioned here. However, the discussion has already taken place, and this is the final decision. Peace, -- The Hybrid 23:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

There is not a consenus, since there are only 3 people discussing the issue and an agreement has not been made. The accepted compromise (before a user named Cyrus kept complainint) was that the title would TNA Impact!, but in the article it would be TNA iMPACT! (similar to the situation with RAW). TJ Spyke 23:58, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
I count 8 people. -- The Hybrid 00:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
You may need to go back and learn how to count Hybrid. There is no consensus to use Impact. TJ Spyke 00:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I went back and counted, and got 10. There are way more than 3. -- The Hybrid 00:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought you meant those who were active in the discussion. Yes there are 10 people, 5 supporting iMPACT and 5 supporting Impact, hardly consensus. TJ Spyke 00:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
If I remember rightly I ceased discussing after the "Impact" supporters put forth an irrefutable case. How about anyone else? Suriel1981 11:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Verdict ... again ...

I know a few guys here have had problems with Verdict before but he's going at it again quite badly with an account or two a day being created and I'm getting tired of it. All I'm asking is if someone could please me keep an eye on the Minnesota Stretching Crew and Shelton Benjamin articles among others for any sockpuppets of Verdict as he tends to edit there frequently. There's an admin (User:Yamla) who's sorting out the blocking of any accounts if you need to report them. --  oakster  TALK  19:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Steve Austin v The Rock at Wrestlemania 17

On the talk page for WrestleMania 17 I've been debating the merits of including Steve Austin's heel turn and subsequent alliance with Vince McMahon in the article, either in the trivia section, but more specifically in the match result description. The reason for this is two-fold. 1) It was Vince who handed Austin the chair, and he was in the ring when the finish took place. 2) Because of the history between the two men, the fact that they aligned at this event deserves some recognition. What do the rest of you think?--HDC7777 23:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It should be included in the specific match results, it was part of how the match was won and what took place immediately afterwards so it's relevant - it'd be different if it had happened on Raw the next night but it happened on the night, during the match MPJ-DK 08:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I have added the part about Vince giving the steel chair, but I disagree about the heel turn. TJ Spyke 09:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
why leave that out? Vince just "mysteriously" handed him a chair? a comment like that needs some sort of explanation since it was so out of character for both Vince & Austin. what better place than to make the comment than on the article of the event where it happened. It also helps expand the article to go beyond just being a "list of results", which is good thing. MPJ-DK 10:37, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

ECW Originals / New Breed (ECW)

So, these articles were merged when an admin closes an AFD saying the results was merge (even though it was clear the decision was keep). Since I don't want to just undo the merger without getting some input, I thought I would see what the rest of you thought (I posted this on the both talk pages last night, but no replies except from the closing admin). TJ Spyke 03:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't that overstepping the boundaries of the AfD? AfDs don't govern merges. -- The Hybrid 03:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought it be better to merge them simple because it's ECW Originals vs New Breed. They are only going to fight each other more or less. Also I proposed a merge because after that conflict is done and dusted they wont be very big articles separately. I think it's a better article the way it is. Could do with a name fix know. Govvy 11:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
The ECW Originals covers all wrestlers who were part of the original ECW. There is no telling what will happen when the feud ends, that would be crystalballing. TJ Spyke
As it is now there's nothing to say about non-stable originals in the article. As for what the future holds, if they actually become notable separately they can be split then. Before the merger they were almost the exact same article and didn't need to be two.«»bd(talk stalk) 01:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Point of view: Professional wrestling as a competitive sport

The Mick Foley article (and maybe others, I haven't checked yet) seems to be written from the point of view that professional wrestling is a competitive sport. At least, it's not easy to tell from the article what was fictitious and what really happened.

For instance, it states "Race won the match for Vader by using a cattle prod on Cactus, knocking him out for over 10 seconds. The level of violence involved in this feud caused WCW to refuse to ever again book Cactus Jack against Vader on a PPV." Is it saying that the cattle prod was a surprise to the organisers? If so, we may need cites of people saying that was the case.

I think in an encyclopaedia we shouldn't be protecting any fictions. If that's what the article is doing. How widespread is this style?

It's also possible that I'm just not picking up enough jargon to understand the article. Maybe "feud" should be a link?

David Bofinger 04:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

WCW did do stuff like that. Dustin Rhodes and Bunkhouse Buck were suspended after they bled during one of their matches. TJ Spyke 04:25, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
According to WP:WAF, fiction should be written about from an "out-of-universe" perspective. For professional wrestling, my take is that it means we should not uphold kayfabe. In other words, if WCW booked the cattle prod as part of that match, the article should not be written in a way that leads the reader to think that its appearance was completely due to the wrestler's spontaneous creativity. - Geoffg 07:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Link "Feud", "Storyline" and "Angle" but otherwise keep it the way it is - because technically he did win the match that way. I mean Star Wars articles don't have "Anakin's hand was cut off (only in the movie, Hayden's hand never left his body)" either, so it's fine the way it is. And btw. no that's not what the article says, it said the 'feud was violent, not so much the finish of their match - Foley's book supports the brutality of the Vader/Cactus feud, a brutality that went beyond the usual wrestling levels. MPJ-DK 08:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
It should always be clear when an article is talking about a kayfabe plot point or a real-life event. When it isn't clear, as in this case, something is wrong. — Gwalla | Talk 08:17, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
  • What you have to realise is that Vader and Cactus Jack would go beyond the bounds of what WCW and Turner Broadcasting considered acceptable for broadcast. That isn't "kayfabe". Mick Foley's book describes an incident of WCW heavily editing an entire match between him and Leon due to his bleeding. Ask for citations if ya willlllllll but it should be left in. Maybe a note making clear it was a legit situation. Suriel1981 11:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

NWA World/Tag Team Titles

People here might want to watch NWA World Heavyweight Championship and NWA World Tag Team Championship. There are rumors floating around that NWA and TNA are negotiating for TNA to give NWA their titles back this Sunday. As we all know, anon IP's (and some misguided regular editors) tend to put these rumors in articles. So be on the watch and be prepared to watch these, maybe Total Nonstop Action Wrestling as well. TJ Spyke 09:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

  • New Rumours Some people are claiming Samoa Joe is going to throw down the NWA belt in a re-run of the Shane Douglas/ECW double-cross. Might be worth keeping an eye on his page too. Suriel1981 18:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

ECW Tag Team Championship

might want to watch that belt also because there are report's of the belt returning at WrestleMania. Some people say it's returning at December to Dismember. But I am pretty sure the belts will be returning to ECW. Govvy 11:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I've been having trouble with the possible teams in the division too. I've removed the rumor from the Vito page a bunch of times.«»bd(talk stalk) 18:17, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Israeli Pro Wrestling Association?

I did a google search: with results such as OWW (fansite that lists almost every promotion, even if they are notable or not), YouTube (anyone can post videos there) and so on. Anyone have proof this promotion is notable? Then there is the article for an event by IPWA: IPWA Election Day Anarchy that needs to be checked as well. Also: Nadev Rozenfield, an article for an IPWA wrestler. RobJ1981 12:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Just looks like a very small wrestling organisation trying to establish a foot hold on the internet. Certainly not wikipedia material to me. Govvy 12:10, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

the article stated it was featured on "The Wrestling Channel", can anyone confirm this? that could go some way towards "Notability", even if it's just a small step. MPJ-DK 13:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
They may have been featured in the past but they're certainly not regularly scheduled on TWC. I guess this article is fairly notable to anyone who lives in Israel though. Suriel1981 14:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, I will give it a few days then prod the 3 articles. Maybe someone can find proof it was on the wrestling channel and other notable sources. The reason I found it, was because I was looking through Category:Professional wrestlers by nationality. I've added popcat (populate category) tag to several of the cats in that main category. Several are small and probably could be merged into another. Small categories just for the sake of a few articles isn't helping much in my opinion. RobJ1981 14:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
I have checked the archive of TWC, no IPO has been on the channel! Govvy 10:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Looking at the roster it seems the most notable competitor for them has been everyone's favourite sheep-loving Israeli midget Aviv Maayan... I guess the flip side is that if they're Israel's only established promotion then that would (in my eyes certainly) make their presence on Wikipedia worthwhile. Suriel1981 11:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Taglines for wrestling events and matches

I think some sort of consensus should be made about them. Seeing as how when I read a PPV article: tagline/taglines are mentioned for the event, but not the matches always. It should be either: both or none at all, not just one. Here are some examples, in case people don't know about taglines (I'm sure these is some at least). Examples of match taglines: "legend vs icon" (Hogan vs Michaels), "battle of the billionaires" (Trump vs McMahon). Event taglines: "Where It All Begins... Again" (Wrestlemania 20), "All Grown Up" (Wrestlemania 23). What does everyone else think? In my opinion: they should be listed, as they are an important part of the match and event. RobJ1981 20:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but per WrestleMania 23's talk page survey, the consensus is that match taglines are not notable. -- bulletproof 3:16 01:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Agreed, I just stopped remobing BFTB because I didn't feel like getting into an edit war again and getting blocked or causing the article to get fully protected. TJ Spyke 01:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
That was one survey: not a general consensus against all match taglines. If event taglines are notable and remain, then match ones should as well. Considering WWE mentions the tagline for a while before the event, during the event and so on: it's notable. One survey doesn't control every article. RobJ1981 15:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Actually Rob ALL user who voted agreed that the consensus should be the same for all event articles under WP:PW. Just clear that up for you. -- bulletproof 3:16 00:09, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Match names really aren't that notable. After WM23 airs and the result has been revealed, the tag line will likely be considered clutter and removed. PPV taglines on the other hand should be noted. -- Scorpion 15:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Keeping one and not that another isn't helping the article. Event taglines are mentioned only a little more than match taglines. RobJ1981 15:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I checked the discussion: Talk:WrestleMania_23/Archive_1#VOTE:_Battle_of_the_Billionaires (pretty sure that's what you are in reference to). I see only a handful of people voted in that: that certainly doesn't dominate what the Pro Wrestling project decides. And where exactly is this consensus of "all match" taglines you speak of? Trying to change what people said isn't going to work, when the proof is in what was posted. I guess I will have to have a RFC here, because a few editors certainly isn't a consensus, and certainly does NOT control how the wrestling project handles articles. RobJ1981 01:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
The RFC is here: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Taglines for wrestling events and matches. Feel free to comment there, I'm hoping to get more comments at an RFC, rather than here... because I know only a handful of people reply here. RobJ1981 03:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Hulk Hogan

This is so close to being another featured article for the wrestling project, I think we should do a drive on it. Add a reference section and fill it up. If we can do that, should be FA in no time. :) Govvy 21:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: Sortable tables for List of Champion Pages

I set it up with the List of TNA X Division Champions article. I think it looks good. We can also add it to the "reigns by length" articles. Or, as this just came to me, add a "reign length" to the main article and completely eliminate the reigns by length pages, since someone who wants to see that could simply click that sortable heading. Opinions? Mshake3 22:10, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Does it have to be sortable on ALL columns?? stuff like "Notes" could be excluded, but is that technically possible? adding a column with length of reign would remove a lot of list pages which is a good thing. MPJ-DK 22:15, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
There is no reason the lengths need to be combined into the list of champions, it would just make a very cluttered table and is not needed. Getting rid of the notes section would be a bad idea too. TJ Spyke 23:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I see no reason for it to be sortable at all, it's a chronological list. I'd much rather see it brought in line with the IC title list and have vacations on separate lines.«»bd(talk stalk) 23:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Example of the merged table:

Wrestler: Reign: Date: Length: Location: Notes:
A.J. Styles 1 2002-06-19June 19, 2002 49 Huntsville, AL Defeated Jerry Lynn, Low-Ki, and Psicosis in a Four-Way Double Elimination match.
Low Ki 1 2002-08-07August 7, 2002 14 Nashville, TN Defeated Jerry Lynn and A.J. Styles in a Triple Threat match.
Jerry Lynn 1 2002-08-21August 21, 2002 49 Nashville, TN Defeated Low-Ki and A.J. Styles in a Triple Threat Ladder Match. Vacated on October 9, 2002 after Jerry Lynn suffered an injury and could no longer compete.
Syxx-Pac 1 2002-10-09October 9, 2002 14 Nashville, TN Won in a seven-man ladder match that included Tony Mamaluke, Jose Maximo, Joel Maximo, Kid Kash, Ace Steel, and A.J. Styles.
A.J. Styles 2 2002-10-23October 23, 2002 14 Nashville, TN Won in a no-disqualification match.
Jerry Lynn 2 2002-11-06November 6, 2002 35 Nashville, TN
Sonny Siaki 1 2002-12-11December 11, 2002 63 Nashville, TN

You can't select which tables are sortable and which aren't, and problems do occur with cells that stretch over more than one row or column, so I'll keep looking into that. Of course, why would an article visitor want to sort the table by the notes section? However, it can be a nice way to look at several things in the history of a championship, such as how everyone's first reign went, the title changes in each city, etc.

Also, the reign by length table is very redundant. We're displaying the names, date victory, and date loss twice. Not necessary. Mshake3 01:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not redundant, and that table makes it difficult to see exactly when they won and lost the title. TJ Spyke 01:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It's not redundant to have two lists with the same names and title victories? Why is that? However, you're right that this list doesn't make it clear when one loses the title, and adding the loss date would make it a bit too clutered. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mshake3 (talk • contribs) 01:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
One is a chronological list of champions, the other is a list of champions by length. TJ Spyke 02:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
And why are both necessary? Mshake3 02:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Just made the date column sortable. So we get an idea of how messy it is to do so. If there's a template for this, please tell me. --Aaru Bui DII 10:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

What exactly did you do? The table becomes sortable with the class="wikitable sortable" tag at the beginning of the table (as opposed to class="wikitable"), and right now you can't do individual columns. Mshake3 01:06, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
It's a MediaWiki extension that allows columns in data tables to be sorted. There are a few limitations, such as no "only for certain columns", complete crapout when it comes to colspans, and the like. If this can be used so that the "by reign length" article can be deleted, we'd have to add a "date lost" as well as a ParserFunction deal that computes the difference between dates for reign length. The issue of cluttering has also come up, and there are several ways out: a (large) list of footnotes (replacing the notes column - but what if a title is solely contested in triple threat matches...?), or some kind of custom CSS overflow (otherwise known as "fake frames"). kelvSYC 02:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I said "date" column. Go look at the code to see what I did. --Aaru Bui DII 04:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Referees

I've come across quite a few articles on referees - most of them stubs, honestly do we need a seperate page on every guy who's ever been a referee for WWE, WCW or TNA? A few referees have made names for themselves but to have an article just because "He's WWE Referee assigned to the ECW Brand" isn't really notable. A joint page? getting rid of a lot of the stubbed non-notable referees?? MPJ-DK 22:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC) If you're looking for examples then just check out about half the names in Category:Professional wrestling referees, there is even an OWV referee on there MPJ-DK 22:18, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd say! DELETE THEM ALL, hehe! Govvy 22:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I think only the very notable ones should remain: Earl Hebner, Charles Robinson, Nick Patrick and so on. The rest could just be listed on a referees list page of some sort (with minor descriptions of them, where they worked, etc). RobJ1981 22:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Refs, IMO, are not normally notable - they are only notable if they get involved in a storyline (either as a ref or as some other authority). The Hebners are notable. Charles Robinson is notable (but moreso because of his involvement with Flair or being the only ref to cross the picket line in that ref strike angle). Nick Patrick is notable. Mickie Henson (he's the head ECW ref, right?) is on the borderline (I can't recall any WWE storyline involving him, at least). Theodore Long (as a former ref) is notable. And so on. kelvSYC 19:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it was Jim Korderis who crossed the picketline. The ref strike storyline was in 1999, so Robinson was still in WCW. TJ Spyke 01:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
My thought are, why shouldn't all the refs be notable? From what i'ved seen, people who have played in only 1 MLB/NFL/NBA/etc. game are considered notable enough for an article. When I was looking at random articles, I cam across someone who was a replacement pitcher in only 2 games (during World War II). So why is someone who plays in as little as 1 game more notable than a referee who appears on international TV every week? TJ Spyke 02:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
that's too flimsy a reason IMO - at best they could have a single page unless they do something to really stand out from every other referee out there. MPJ-DK 08:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Brian Hebner for instance, who's only semblance of notability comes from being Earl's offspring and doing a 'human beatbox' in an (admittedly hilarious) segment with John Cena and Spanky. I don't really think he's worthy of a page. Suriel1981 09:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I think seperate AFD's should be on referee pages (since mass AFD listings fail most of the time from what I've seen). One list page of the most notable referees (and maybe some others that have done a few things) is all that is really needed in this case. The only referees that need articles are: Nick Patrick (long time referee, and was a part of NWO), Earl Hebner (for his involvement in Survivor Series, plus TNA appearances), Theodore Long (obviously, since he has been manager, general manager and so on in his career as well) and possibly a few others. Generally: if they have done enough outside of being a referee: their bio article should remain. To TJ's comment of So why is someone who plays in as little as 1 game more notable than a referee who appears on international TV every week?. Prod or AFD the articles then: I doubt people that played in 1 game are notable enough (unless they did alot outside of sports). There needs to be a line somewhere, Wikipedia doesn't need articles for referees (or other staff) with small articles that likely aren't going to be expanded much. It's a form of cruft in my opinion. A list page works better in this case. RobJ1981 10:00, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd agree with that. I'd say guys like Brian Hildebrand, Dave Hebner and Bill Alfonso have done enough to warrant pages, the others not so much. I don't really like the idea of a general list of referees however. I'd say that any mention of them could be on the promotion's own page. Suriel1981 10:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I say we should have an articles with WWE Referees, another with TNA Referees and the final one being WCW Referees. Davnel03 21:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I suspect that a simple list of current referees would get a deletion nomination as listcruft, especially WCW referees as that organisation is no longer in existance. Suriel1981 11:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

WWE Backlash

Hi, I've just seen this poster on a wrestling-news related website: Image:Backlash07.jpg Looks real, doesn't it? I put the poster on the article, only for it to be removed by TJ Spyke. He goes along by saying that the poster is not real. The poster will probably be on the section of WWE.com straight at WrestleMania 23. Just because it hasn't been officially confirmed as a poster, why can't it go into the article? By the way, the poster is on www.pwmania.com. Davnel03 16:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

It lacks the basic information PPV posters tend to have; date, arena, time, etcetera. Wait until it's confirmed as real before readding it, and when you do add the required copyright information.«»bd(talk stalk) 17:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
We also tend to only use the official info. Even if it looked real, it wouldn't be added unless it was on a WWE site. TJ Spyke 01:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
"Looks real"? http://www.indemand.com/viewProduct.jsp?prodId=61754 --Aaru Bui DII 14:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Now can I call the damn image real and insert it onto the Backlash page?? Davnel03 15:54, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Even if you did, it won't be long until we replace it with a more detailed poster. --Aaru Bui DII 16:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It's an official teaser poster. Seems reasonable to add it to the article. Suriel1981 16:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Backyard Wrestling

Guys we have another Backyard fan creating pages for wrestlers and from a backyard promotion... it only came to my attention as the same editor began spaming wrestling pages with a myspace link to the promotion.. if anyone has time can they check out his edits and remove this backyard crap.. gtg later --- Paulley

Thanks for the heads-up on that. I've put all his articles up for speedy deletion and issued him a level 3 warning for repeated vandalism/spamming on a town article. Suriel1981 13:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Christian's Coalition

Could somebody who is more familiar with wrting wrestling bio articles help with this? I did some bare basics just to get it started. TJ Spyke 04:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Does it even need an article? «»bd(talk stalk) 14:33, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Tis an official stable, with the heel champion of TNA, so yes. Mshake3 00:43, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Just use the Rated-RKO article as a comparison and work from there. Govvy 11:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Second Bam bam Bigelow page

Some idiot created a page called bam bam bigelow 2. Can someone nominate it for speedy deletion, as it simply repeats the same informaiton and says opinions as if they are facts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.146.59.114 (talk • contribs).

I've put a speedy delete tag on it. BTW, new topics go at the bottom of the page. TJ Spyke 02:14, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Headhunters pages

I have just seen the individual pages for Headhunter A and Headhunter B and they're completly the same except for the name, could we merge the two into a page called just "the Headhunters" because EVERYTHING they've done is as a team. MPJ-DK 07:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I've merged them now. --  oakster  TALK  14:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

OwW

Recently, as I'm sure anyone who has tried to revert a page has found, Obsessed with Wrestling has been put on the spam blacklist. The reson given is that the former JB196 is/was spamlinking it to his article to give himself credit for pages he's "written". TJ Spyke has contacted the OwW webmaster about JB196s actions, and the wiki folk about getting OwW unblacklisted.

Anyway, until it's all cleared up, and I'm by no means an authority, I'm requesting that people don't remove the links just because it'll be a pain to try to put them all back and it really is a good reference for wins and losses. When possible please just re-edit sections instead of reverting whole pages, then the blacklist doesn't kick up a fuss.«»bd(talk stalk) 17:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay will do. I usually only add a OWW link, if I can't find anything else at the moment anyway. It's still a fansite: they do have some reliable information, but it's not 100 percent accurate and is certainly not a sole source for articles. In my opinion: if an article has much better links, OWW shouldn't even be listed. RobJ1981 18:05, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely. They certainly excel at listing the more obscure signature moves but I've seen more than one profile to get the D-O-B completely wrong despite having a link to the subject's personal website. Suriel1981 11:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I saw this as a problem before but didn't say anything, hopefully it will be unlisted. Govvy 12:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup on Professional wrestling match types

Right now, PWMT will never make a good article by WP standards. What I propose to clean it up is to establish one basic criteria that I hope all of us can live with:

  • The article should be about match types that occur in some degree of frequency, but which are not notable in its own right. (Triple Threat, Bra and Panties, etc)
  • Common gimmick matches get their own article, and its inclusion in PWMT should be limited to one list item - no sections as it clutters up the page. (King of the Mountain, Elimination Chamber, Hell in a Cell are all in their own articles right now)
  • Significant one-time matches are merged with the article about the event it appeared in. (King of the Road should be merged in WCW Uncensored, Punjabi Prison Match should be merged in The Great American Bash, etc.) Certain exceptions (I can only think of WrestleCrap entries right now) may arise, but in those cases they are in matches on their own.
  • If it's a minor variation of a match, or a match under a different appearance (including name), it's a match of that type. "Rage in a Cage" is a Steel cage match with a round cage and pinfall-only. I can't see what's different about it that makes it different from a steel cage match.

The criteria should slim down the size of our article (too much extreme-deathmatch-cruft). In particular:

  • Read the leading paragraph - when it says "The following is a list of common or otherwise notable match types", we should enforce it - in particular...
  • A match type is not notable just because it has occured once. A lot of anons have added matches into the article just because it has occured once, inflating our article size. But this doesn't mean anything if I don't say this.
  • A match type is not notable just because it has occured on a few isolated occasions. Why are steel cage matches or ladder matches notable over your average "Taipei death match"? It's because they happen regularly - like a "seasonal attraction" at an amusement park. They are common enough to be notable, but rare enough to be a novelty. Still, we also have...
  • A match type is not notable just because it has been employed by a major wrestling promotion. People will forget about the "Kennel from Hell" over time. Period. Still...
  • A match type is not notable just because it has been employed by an indy promotion: "It's not notable because it's only appeared in a promotion that's non-notable", "if it was notable, then the promotion is notable for having this notable match", and so forth.

Based on this alone, I've reduced the current revision (at 68K) to a 44K revision at User:kelvSYC/Professional wrestling match types. I can envision that with a good rewrite of certain parts, we can get this to be of better quality and get it to about 30-40K.

Any comments? kelvSYC 21:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

The only part I don't agree with are merging some match types into PPV articles (BTW, the Punjabi Prison match is listed in the Steel cage article since it's basically a varitian of a steel cage match). Some matches don't need to be added if they just have minor tweaks, the Kennel from Hell match just links to the Hell in a Cell match (or Steel Cage, I forget) and includes a note beneath the match about dogs being in between the cages. TJ Spyke 22:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I probably chose bad examples for types (as the PPM was like a steel-cage match with a bamboo cage and a "bamboo HIAC" if you really thought about it), but the point still remains: the PPM, the Kennel from Hell, those have only been used once. If the PPM was used again, I would move the information to the article on the steel cage match. If the PPM happens to become a yearly event, it may even deserve its own article. But for now, we don't need a description of a one-time match type outside its only occurence. kelvSYC 07:00, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
I like this proposal, including the merging of one-time matches into the events' articles. — Gwalla | Talk 06:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Still, if everyone can agree on it, I'd like to propose that we somehow integrate my edited version into the real version - my edited version is far from finished (and I'd like the project members to work on it a little). It would be the only way for this article to be better than "plain old list of cruft". And it really seems like this article could be AFD'ed any time due to overwhelming amounts of cruft. kelvSYC 23:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Johnny Valiant

Does anybody know any of Johnny Valiant's moves, as they are blank? It could use a fillin' in. Kris Classic 01:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I've done a search (including keywords on Google) and found nada... I guess old-school wrestling didn't rely on signature moves as much as now. He was a bit before my time as a competitor so I have no clue! Suriel1981 12:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thanks anyway. Kris Classic 01:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Confirm a fact?

I need some help in doing some quick fact checking for WWE Brand Extension: right now, I have cited "three events over four weeks" for Survivor Series to Armageddon, and, "when combined with TNA events, makes it six events over seven weeks" for Cyber Sunday to Armageddon as an argument to "overdilution of pro wrestling". I was wondering if there was any other similar scheduling anomalies in the past, or if this one could be extended into a longer period of time (with, say, the presence of another PPV show - major or indy - that would make it, say, ten events over 12 weeks). kelvSYC 07:04, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

the only other time I can think off was when WWE, WCW & ECW all ran PPVs, there were like 3 a month for quite a while if I'm not mistaken, at least it felt like there was a PPV almost every weekend. MPJ-DK 07:13, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
We have 16+12=28 now, compared to 12+12+6=30 back in the day. Take that for what it's worth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mshake3 (talk • contribs) 02:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Ring Of Honor Alumni

Nominated this page for deletion as it was removed from Ring of Honor roster to create this page for no real reason. I've already re-added it to ROH roster.PepsiPlunge 00:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

unreferenced tags

I want to start removing unreferenced tags from pages that really don't need it, but I want to make sure I have this right. As long as articles only detail the goings on of wrestling shows we can consider the shows themselves as a primary source, even if they don't rerun, yes? Pages like K.C. James and Idol Stevens or Paul London and Brian Kendrick have no information on them that isn't taken directly from episodes of SmackDown! or OVW TV, so barring giving actual episode air dates I don't know how we could actually reference it, and giving air dates doesn't give is much because official recaps, to put it bluntly, suck.«»bd(talk stalk) 02:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Obsessed with Wrestling gives details of RAW and SmackDown, but some troll who wrote some columns for OWW back in 2004 kept spamming pages (even after being blocked) and caused OWW to be added to the spam list (preventing the site from being linked to). TJ Spyke 02:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
www.thehistoryofwwe.com is a good source if you're looking just for WWE show results, I've used it for a lot of my research, and it's adding WCW & ECW results all the time as well. MPJ-DK 05:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that site will work great for title history articles, especially those on the "when it happened" side of the debates. Mshake3 14:43, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Suspected link pimping

A user with the IP 130.76.32.15 has been adding links to something called "ClubWWI" to a series of articles, it looks like site promotion to me. Anyone else agree?? MPJ-DK 19:36, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

TNA

There is a vote going on at Talk:TNA (disambiguation). A user is trying to get it moved to "TNA" (basically getting rid of the redirect to "Total Nonstop Action Wrestling"). I oppose the move since I think that TNA Wrestling is the main use, but all opinions are welcome there. TJ Spyke 01:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Hulk Hogan

Nominated for FA status - discussion is here. Davnel03 15:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Silly edit war

Can we not have a blasted edit war over British vs. English spelling in an HTML comment? This is beyond ridiculous, guys. — Gwalla | Talk 05:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

In all seriousness, the main WP:PW page was created using American English spelling and I believe the Wikipedia style convention states that subsequently we should follow that. However, it doesn't really make a tremendous difference to the future of the civilized world if it is in Standard English. It's a shame that certain people seem to see it as a matter of pride to "prove" that American English is "better" (which, to be frank, pisses me off). Suriel1981 13:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
It goes the other way as well. I have met some editors here who think that British English is the only correct version. There is no "standard" English, unless you mean standard for that country. American English is standard English for American, British English is standard English for the UK, Canadaian English is standard English for Canada, etc. TJ Spyke 13:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

AFDs

West Texas Wrestling Legends (WTWL), Paul Turner (wrestling) and List of ROH shows have all been nominated for deletion.PepsiPlunge 03:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Another website on spam blacklist

I was just editing a page a few minutes ago and noticed that PWInsider is now on the spam blacklist. Now I know the reason for OWW being there (from this) but I was just wondering where this came from? -- Oakster  Talk  10:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, I don't see it listed on the Blacklist page (where articles are supposed to be listed before being blocked). I personally don't check rumor sites (like PWInsider) or believe them (the TNA dropping the NWA titles at Destination X issue is one reason), but I can see how others feel. It shouldn't be blocked. TJ Spyke 23:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm. So where on PWInsider did it say that the NWA titles would be dropped at the March PPV? Mshake3 00:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Pretty sure it didn't. I can't offhand recall them ever really getting things wrong, at least not to that degree. Suriel1981 20:16, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
So is there somewhere we can go to actually appeal this? We're losing actual sources here (Rob Feinstein for example).«»bd(talk stalk) 21:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Country names in infoboxes.

Okay, I don't know why everyone is removing all the country names of the foreign wrestlers all of a sudden, for ages, you had billed from Blackpool, England for William Regal, now ppl are removing the England bit for no reason, next awhile ago I put down for Layla El in the infobox London, England. Some IP removed the England part, now McPhail is taking the responsibility to remove all the nation names from infoboxes on articles. I really don't understand why he is removing them all of a sudden, they were all there before and most other non-wrestling bio's have country names in them for place of birth. So can we please stop removing them all and put all the country names back. Thank You. Govvy 19:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Why remove the country? that's like removing the state for those born in the US - doesn't make a lick of sense MPJ-DK 20:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm guessing it's because we're tending to use nationality flagicons more now which eliminates the need to put country of origin/death in the userbox. I haven't removed country names myself but I can see the point that it makes the userbox less cluttered. Suriel1981 20:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Most other bio conventions I've seen uses both the name and the flag of the country - eg. (Flag of Canada Calgary, Alberta, Canada, or Flag of Canada Canada, or something similar). I fail to see why it should be different here. Although I do want to propose that this be used only for real but not kayfabed origins, due to the fact that they may not be billed from a geographical location (The Godfather from the Red Light District), a factually inaccurate one (for Finlay, Belfast is in Northern Ireland and not the Irish republic), or not a place at all (recall Monty Brown from "The Animal Kingdom"). The bio conventions are inconsistent with regards to subnational entities: some do include it (Flag of Alberta Calgary, Alberta, Canada, or just Flag of Alberta Calgary, Alberta, but generally never Flag of Alberta Calgary) and some don't. kelvSYC 20:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

What I've done on the Shawn Daivari article is put the Iranian flag next to birthplace and the US flag next to "resides". I felt it was necessary to put two flags because of course he is legally an American citizen now. Agreed that "kayfabe location" shouldn't be flagged for the points made by Kelv. Suriel1981 01:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I don't really see the need to list the country when the flag is present, it seems redundant.«»bd(talk stalk) 21:17, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Bdve, it's not redundant if you're colour blind and things like the flagicons are new, the country names were there before people starting messing around. Govvy 21:30, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

As long as the flagicon template is used a mouseover lets you know what the country is.«»bd(talk stalk) 01:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe, but I still like it to say "London, England" instead of just London, looks more complete then. But the norm for most bio's is to put the country name down in the infobox. Govvy 08:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Either all countries should be placed, or none. I like the idea of the flags and no country stated.Halbared 08:55, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

ye, but for where you are born, if outside of America it should state the country name and from wrestlers are billed from, if they are not American wrestlers, they always say the country name when billed from by the announcer. So that should stay, that way, is what I am trying to say. Govvy 09:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That's because United States promotions are UScentric, other promotions are not, nor is Wikipedia. Halbared 09:29, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That just made non sense to me, anyway, for Layla El I been doing exactly what Suriel1981 has done for Shawn Daivari, but McPhail is trying to punish me for being it feels like. Govvy 09:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

WWE is UScenric, other promotions are not, Wiki is not UScentric, and tries to keep standardized boxes for all wrestlersHalbared 09:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Halbared, Can you please stop messing will William Regal secondly, UScentric means nothing to me, I have no idea what it means because I have never heard of it before or seen that word in the dictionary!! Govvy 09:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I think he means simply that WWE is geared entirely towards an American audience. For example they would say "Paris, France" for Rene Dupree to make sure the fanboys knew they weren't referring to Paris, Texas.
Interestingly, in British wrestling our ring announcers seem to follow the same convention as American ones: AJ Styles or Chris Hamrick would get the town/state treatment whereas Petey Williams or Ulf Herman would get town/country. Unfortunately I can't really understand the NJPW or NOAH announcers so I don't know what their convention is. Suriel1981 13:33, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

The articles must be internally consistent. Either the city/state should be listed in both fields, or the city/state and the country should be listed in both fields. Omitting the country in a given field is confusing and, as Halbared pointed out, ethnocentric. The only reason I am removing countries is that Govvy is adding "England" to the infoboxes of English wrestlers, but appears to reject the inclusion of "United States". All I ask is that the articles use a consistent standard - I have no preference as to whether this involves always including the country, or never including the country. McPhail 13:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I have never removed any references or names of United States from anything! I clearly put in England into two areas. William Regal as he is billed by the WWE and the fact that it clearly states on the WWE profile. Billed from Blackpool, England. You just remove the England part saying he is just billed from Blackpool, which is in fact incorrect as the WWE doesn't say from Blackpool, they always say Blackpool, England. Which was how it was in the infobox for likes AGES! anyway, don't know why you keep removing it, because you obviously have backwards thinking I guess! But anyway as for Layla El she was born in London, England as stated by the WWE, so I follow WWE naming conventions on the bio. It's correct information, I don't understand why you want to remove correct information. I have never added false information! Just again you say something about Americanise listing of information. There has been a WWE specific standard way of displaying information which has transferred across all wrestling promotions. I have only follow the conventions set by American WWE standard. Govvy 16:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That's fair enough, the announcers do always say "Blackpool, England" so it makes sense to have that in the "billed from" line. I'm not sure if the country of origin is necessarily needed for the "birthplace" line if there's a flagicon, as the opening sentence will always say "such-and-such is a <insert nationality> professional wrestler". Suriel1981 18:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
The announcers say "Blackpool, England" because Regal is an employee of an American company. IPW lists Kevin Steen as being from "Montreal, Canada" and El Generico as being from "Tijuana, Mexico" but only includes cities where English wrestlers are concerned. Once again, countries must always be included in the "from" and "resides" fields or never be included. McPhail 19:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I was referring more to the actual ring introductions for FWA and Alex Shane's independent shows. Agreed, consistency is needed. Suriel1981 19:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree, whatever we choose, let's make it consistant!Halbared 22:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Again, I have to reiterate that the bio conventions apply only for non-kayfabe origins (eg. Chris Benoit would be from Flag of Alberta Edmonton, Alberta, Canada). Whether this is chosen to be extended into kayfabe is ultimately the project's choice, but personally, I'd rather not, for the reasons I've stated (non-geographic and even non-place billed origins). Under current bio origins, though, if the flag is used, then the country must be included. If you have an issue with this, take it up with WP:MEDCAB or WP:RFC. kelvSYC 19:06, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Must be included? I wasn't aware that we were compelled to follow flagicon conventions set by a different Wikiproject. As a matter of fact, just check some of the biographies to see that flagicon is often used instead of using the country name. As far as kayfabe origins/"billed from", that is already in place. Flagicons have started to come into play with reference to legitimate place of birth. I don't believe anyone is suggesting putting a Tanzanian flag for Monty Brown or an icon of Uranus for Max Moon. Suriel1981 19:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd like to see the one for the ole, Parts Unknown:oDHalbared 22:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I've created one for if the need arises. It goes a lil' something like this:

Warrior
Statistics
Ring name(s) The Mexican Hunter,
The Man So Conservative He Makes McCarthy Look Communist,
The Santa Rapist
Billed weight however much the Anadrol allows
Born 1876
Flag of Parts unknown PARTS UNKNOWN!
Died 1990 (he was replaced by Kerry Von Erich)
Billed from Flag of Parts unknown PARTS UNKNOWNNNNNNN!!!!

Suriel1981 00:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

That's good. I can only remember Ultimate Warrior being from there. It's a bit of an old style thing.Halbared 09:14, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Clarification on "Announcements" versus "Announced Matches"

I agree with the policy that discourages entering content that assumes future events will happen, such as "Umaga will wrestle Bobby Lashley at Wrestlemania 23." While this is an event that is supposed to happen, we must abide by the Wikipedia guidelines and stick to the facts.

However, I believe that some editors are going too far in their enforcement of this guideline by not allowing the inclusion of announcements that have already been made about these future events.

The article in question is on Stone Cold Steve Austin. My belief is that there is a distinct difference between saying "Steve Austin will be the guest referee" and "Steve Austin has been announced as the guest referee." The former is clearly forward-looking and not factually true, while the latter is a fact and will always be a fact. I believe the former is not proper content for Wikipedia, but the latter is.

Many of the announcements surrounding Wrestlemania are quite notable, especially in the WWE realm. The announcement that Donald Trump has made his hair-versus-hair "wager" with Mr. McMahon is arguably the biggest one. In keeping with the spirit of this guideline, I changed the Matches header on the WrestleMania 23 page to Announced Matches. It is now factually correct; those matches have been officially announced and have not yet taken place. Even the "Steve Austin as guest referee" note is in there.

But if Wikipedia can be used to record other official announcements about future events - Jay Leno planning to leave "The Tonight Show", or Apple releasing a new operating system, or Steven Spielberg directing Indiana Jones 4, and on and on - then why is this official announcement that Steve Austin will be the guest referee at WM23 any different? Doc502 20:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Good point Suriel1981 20:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Revamp for WP:PW

Having had a glance at our French Wikipedia equivalent Projet Catch, I've decided that I'd like to give our own project page a bit of a makeover since it's looking to be a bit cluttered. My proposed design is at User:Oakster/WP:PW. Basically, I've put everything in a couple of columns and made the subpages more visible to the reader. Due to its size, I think the style guide should have its own subpage. Also I would remove the strategy subpage I believe is pretty useless as we have the to-do box on the talk page. Anyway, if I have the blessings from you guys I'll make the change. -- Oakster  Talk  16:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

  • support 100% It would certainly make the project page a lot more accessable and to-the-point. Suriel1981 16:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
  • Support I like it a lot MPJ-DK 06:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Shouldn't the Style Guide have the correct info regarding the infobox? I mean, it should point people to Infobox wrestler for creating bio articles. TJ Spyke 21:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
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