Wikipedia talk:WikiProject PipeOrgan

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 WikiProject PipeOrgan  (edit)
Project Information
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Things you can do (see ToDo)
  • Flag all articles with {{PipeOrgan-project-page}}
  • Trawl categories and insert links to all organ related pages, and their redirects on article list page. This allows for the recent changes tool to work.

Contents


[edit] Organ pipe revision

After my difficulty last week attempting to clean up Organ stop, I looked at Organ pipe this afternoon, and my attempt met at much more success. I have restructured the article and significantly expanded it, but it is (of course) by no means complete. Since I'm new to the concept of WikiProjects, I'm assuming that the place to announce major initiatives/work done is here on the project's discussion page. If it's not, by all means, let me know! I removed the section on diaphones from Pipe organ and put it in Organ pipe in order to trim down the larger article some. Furthermore, the diaphone is not nearly significant enough a topic to warrant the kind of space it was taking up in Pipe organ. —Cor anglais 16 (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I wonder whether in this case, flue and reed pipes should have most of the information on their articles, (if they indeed warrant them, rather than an all inclusive Organ pipe), and then simpler descriptions at Pipe organ. Perhaps this should be our formal miniproject - cleanup and populate Organ pipe, Flue pipe and Reed pipe, then edit the main page accordingly. Can I suggest we leave Pipe organ as it is for a moment, get these other articles up to scratch, then tailor Pipe organ accordingly?
I am happy for Flue pipe and Reed pipe to remain as such, as long as Organ pipe is kept an eye on, but could they be incorporated? What do others think? The diaphone paragraph definitely doesn't require its own article as the material isn't nearly substantial enough.
MDCollins (talk) 09:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
I think that miniproject sounds like a good first coordinated project. I also think that leaving Pipe organ alone for the time being is a good idea. Regarding Flue pipe, Reed pipe, and Organ pipe, I think the first two articles should be the main articles regarding their respective subjects (i.e., reed pipe construction, beards on flue pipes, rudimentary voicing descriptions, etc. would go in Reed pipe or Flue pipe, respectively), while Organ pipe should contain more general information related to organ pipes (i.e., pipemaking information, end construction, pipe shape, metallurgy, acoustical physics, and anything else that applies to both flues and reeds would go in Organ pipe). —Cor anglais 16 (talk) 11:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organ stop revision

I just attempted a revision of Organ stop, and I believe it is now a better article, though it certainly needs more cleanup and information. Much of the text is pulled and revised from Pipe organ. I ended up commenting out a good portion of the article because it confused the definitions of stop and slider (the latter of which never showed up in the article). This begs the question: how shall we incorporate various chest actions (slider chest, spring chest, cone chest, Pitman chest, etc.) into the organ articles? Should they be portions of Organ stop or their own separate articles? Does anyone have a good enough understanding of these mechanisms to write about them? Am I bringing this up way too early in the life of the project? —Cor anglais 16 17:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I would have thought that an explanation of the various chest actions should be all in one action, not Pipe organ but possibly one of the others. You might be bringing this up a tiny bit too soon - we might need to get the more mundane tasks out of the way first!–MDCollins (talk) 23:35, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Message from a new project member

Being a relative newcomer to the pipe organ, I will not be able to contribute the grand additions/revisions of some of the more learned members. I shall, however, continue to chip in as I have before. As a final note, yes, my account name was inspired by the article and my interest in the organ. Kudos to all who make this place go round.

P.S. I've made a userbox for this project. The link: {{User WikiProject PipeOrgan}} If you don't like it or would like to change it, feel free to make changes. Doublediapason 00:43, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Welcome. Thanks for the userbox, I've added it to the template section of the main page. MDCollins (talk) 09:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organists categories

Before populating the full article list with organists, I was wondering if a category cleanup would be useful. There seems to be organists in lots of categories, but not with any logic. My proposal would be for every organist to be in at least two categories:

and

Then

I don't think that Category:Organists should be used at all, other than as a parent category.

In a similar vein, if populated correctly, List of organists would be redundant - it is a horrible looking red-linked page anyway!

Thoughts? MDCollins (talk) 10:15, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Sounds a good idea to me to tidy this field up, especially (1) getting rid of individual names from Category:Organists and (2) doing something drastic to List of organists (although it might provide a useful reference for future project work). A few further thoughts.
  1. Delete the category of "Popular organists" - isn't there more than a hint of point of view involved in choosing who is "popular"? See discussion below MDCollins (talk) 14:48, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
  2. As for nationality, is there a Wikipedia policy on whether to list as "British", as opposed to "English" or "Welsh" (or Scottish / Irish, but there are no such categories in use for organists at present)? At present, "English" (117 names) and "Welsh" (5 names) are sub-cags of "British", but there are then 4 names in the British section. It makes sense to be consistent not only within "organists" but also, if possible, with other categories e.g. composers, if there is a policy.
  3. How about a Category:Cathedral organists for those who are, or have been, employed in that capacity?
Bencherlite 22:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Re: 1, I think this refers to organists in popular music (ie non-classical), rather than those liked by a lot of people (Rick Wakeman for example) - perhaps a rename of the category. See discussion below MDCollins (talk) 14:48, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Re: 2, don't know what the policy is, probably to use British but I don't know.
Re: 3, Yes good idea.
MDCollins (talk) 09:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Re:British, I agree that this category should be split into 'home nations' in order to avoid the british category getting too large (although I can't think of many non-english organists)! Beware that we may find some people putting Cornish organists (not that there are any here yet) in a seperate category - the correct category being 'English organists'. MDCollins (talk) 08:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Another thing...! I was a bit unsure as to the point of putting organ scholars, and cathedral organists in classical organists as well!
Therefore, I am moving these as sub-cats of classical organists so for example [[John Scott (organist) will go in Category:Cathedral organists, Category:Organ scholars, Category:English organists, whereas Piet Kee will go in Category:Dutch organists, and Category:Classical organists. MDCollins (talk) 09:39, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
See FAQs for summary of the above. MDCollins (talk) 15:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Popular organists category

This is a discussion about the re-naming of Category:Popular organists, extracted from above - struck out text is irrelevant to this discussion, and has been acted on. How about a category for non-classical organists? The likes of Reginald Dixon, for example? The Wurlitzer is, after all, a pipe organ. Guy (Help!) 16:44, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

  • Feh - my bad. Category:Popular organists—The preceding unsigned comment was added by JzG (talk • contribs) 16:44, 4 March, 2007 (UTC).

Is this the best title for the category, does it suggest popularity?MDCollins (talk) 13:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed here as well: rename the category "Popular organists:" perhaps "Non-classical organists" or "Popular music organists?" I am woefully inadequate when it comes to my knowledge of Wikipedia conventions, and especially where to find them, but British sounds good to me. Category:Cathedral organists also sounds like a good idea. —Cor anglais 16 (talk) 11:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Anything to avoid the current confusion between "being popular" and "playing popular music" - "Light Music Organists"?. As for "British", the approach at Category:British musicians seems to be to have English, Welsh, etc as sub-categories of British. So, to conform, I suggest we aim to use English organists / Welsh organists etc rather than British organists, wherever possible. There's more about naming conventions at Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians/Categorization I'll create Category:Cathedral organists and put John Scott (organist) in it for now - one of the "popular organists"! Bencherlite 16:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
'Non-classical organists' sounds the best so far (is there a bot we could use to change all of these?) I suppose it doesn't matter if not, because we need to enter each one anyway. MDCollins (talk) 08:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I have raised the Category:Popular organists problem at the WP:Musicians cat-sort project here, to see what they suggest. I think for now, we can continue with the category sort - leaving it as popular organists for the time being, then rename it afterwards! MDCollins (talk) 09:12, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Discussion now raised at Categories for discussion.MDCollins (talk) 15:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Discussion closed - decision rename, but to what? –MDCollins (talk) 23:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cathedral organists

Discussion extracted from talk pages of Mdcollins and Bencherlite Hi. I noticed that you asked whether Dudley Buck was a cathedral organist or not. I have probably been going against my own rules, but have used discretion in cases like this and included organists of large-ish/ or many parish churches in this category as well, not just for cathedrals. I know this might create problems, but save another Category:Church organists it kind of seemed logical! MDCollins (talk) 11:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, not sure I agree that non-cathedral organists should be in the cathedral organists category. I think you then have a real problem of deciding whether someone played at "enough" churches or a "large enough" church to qualify, whereas "Did he/she play at a cathedral?" should be a straightforward question to answer. I don't think we need a "Church organists" category as well, though - "classical organists" doesn't have to be an empty category consisting only of sub-categories. Shall we move this discussion to the Project talkpage? Bencherlite 12:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Done- maybe you're right. Should be hard to check them, just have to wander through Cathedral organists and check the evidence. MDCollins (talk) 13:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Female organists

How about Category:Female organists? There aren't that many on here, but more than I anticipated. Would it be a useful category? MDCollins (talk) 15:46, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I was initially unsure about Category:Female organists but have checked and found Category:Women in music, with sub-categories including Category:Female guitarists and Category:Women composers. It would appear to fit nicely and (if created) should be added as a sub-category of Women in music too. Bencherlite 20:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Created! –MDCollins (talk) 23:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baseball organists

I'm tagging the American organists at present, and beginning to think that we need another new category of Category:Baseball organists - still in the C section and found two already (Lambert Bartak and Ray Castoldi)! Bencherlite 20:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Not sure, maybe...When the popular organists category debate is finished and we have done all the sorting, perhaps some more sub-cats of Category:Popular organists would be apparent. MDCollins (talk) 13:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Have found another baseball organist - my tongue-in-cheek suggestion about Category:Baseball organists is getting less tongue-in-cheek now! )(Moved from below) - didn't initially mean it as a serious suggestion, but have found three so far and only up to G. (Aren't there sometimes organists at other American sports?) Agree that decisions can wait until later. Bencherlite 13:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hammond organ players

Would Category:Hammond organ players be more consistent with other sub-categories if renamed Category:Hammond organists? Bencherlite 13:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Possibly... MDCollins (talk) 13:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Category:Hammond organists sounds good to me, and more consistent, though it's similar to the phrase "Hammond organ." —Cor anglais 16 (talk) 13:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organists and composers in the North German tradition

Should Category:Organists and composers in the North German tradition be placed as a sub-cat of Category:Classical organists? My thought is that yes it should, removing individuals from the latter - unless of course there are some non-organist composers in the category. It is all in the wording. I'll check them as I populate the German organists list. Any thoughts –MDCollins (talk) 16:42, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed stub

I think we could do with an organist-stub. Before proposing one, I believe we have to see how many articles would require the tag. I am marking these on the article list page, and tagging all relevant articles with "Keyboardist-stub" - the closest I can find! MDCollins (talk) 10:19, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I have now proposed this stub, current estimate is nearly 100 stubs!–MDCollins (talk) 00:42, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
And created at {{organist-stub}} –MDCollins (talk) 00:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speeding up a boring job for humans?

Fun though it is to go through every organist-related category, tag the talk page and check for disambig and redirect pages, can't we ask a bot-owner to do at least the initial tagging for us? How about User:WatchlistBot, for example? Bencherlite 21:00, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe - but we've probably done most of it. I'll do the non-american organists for a bit! MDCollins (talk) 10:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok, and I'll do some more American organists. D and E, here I come... Bencherlite 10:24, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Also, it allows us to correct the categorisation as we go! See the discussion at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 March 11#Category:Popular organists and help me out! Somebody seemed to get the wrong end of the stick. MDCollins (talk) 10:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC) (Done Bencherlite 13:14, 12 March 2007 (UTC))
It looks as though WatchlistBot can be used to perform "maintenance" checking of the categories once a week or so, which would save us having to check for new pages in every category and tag them. Worth rememebering for when we've tagged every blinking organist/organ article?! Bencherlite 11:07, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organ portal?

So I was comparing some of the organ-related articles in the English Wikipedia with their corresponding organ-related articles in other languages, and I came across the "Portail de l'Orgue" at the French Wikipedia: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portail:Orgue

In addition, I found information on portals in the English Wikipedia.

This "Portail de l'Orgue" looks really cool. Can we do this on the English Wikipedia? Does it make sense to? Is there already one I don't know about? —Cor anglais 16 (talk) 21:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we can do this. I think it would be really useful. Lets add it to the list of things to do. Perhaps, I'll create a list of things that need doing to get this project up and running. There are still a few maintenance things to be done from setting up really. –MDCollins (talk) 23:49, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
The French Wikipedia Organ Project also looks as though it has some useful material that we could steal use for inspiration, although my GCSE French gets me as far as buying "un croque-monsieur, s'il vous plais"... The creator of both the Fr Project and Portal is Sonusfaber, whose talk page says that s/he speaks English at a near-native level, which might be useful if we need to ask for help or guidance, either with the Project/Portal or for matters French. I'm sure that there would be things that we could help them with in return - they have a list of articles that need writing, including Simon Preston and "Georges" Guest, for example, that we might be able to at least start off in schoolboy French for them. Bencherlite 00:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
In fact, this got me thinking - there must be material on organs at other Wikis. If we have members with language skills, then the article text might be useful. At the very least, photographs etc are almost certainly going to be re-usable under standard Wiki licences (and even if we can't understand the article we can probably work out what the caption says). For example, the German Wiki organ page has a plenty of pretty pictures, some sound files, even an animation of the mechanics of wind entering a pipe when the key is pressed. The Italian Wiki organ page has as its lead photo a shot of the Bristol Cathedral console(!); the Spanish Wiki organ page has some fine horizontal trumpets on show; even more photos and sound files at Wikimedia Commons. Might be useful to remember when we move from project page tagging to writing / improving articles. Bencherlite 00:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Yep. I think most of the photos are in the commons, so an easy access link to that would be really useful, as I think by definition, if they are in there the licenses are fine for this Wiki too. I've got average French and mostly forgotten German which have proved useful in the past, especially when expanding Olivier Latry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mdcollins1984 (talk • contribs) 00:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Have you seen the portal?? I've given it a go, it is still work in progress but the 'box portal template' is really easy to pick up and maintain. Any suggestions welcome. I am aware that the chosen articles and pictures etc need to be vetted for quality, but I have just chosen these to demonstrate how it works for now (also we seem to have few articles of a decent standard anyway!). –MDCollins (talk) 00:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow, this looks great! I'm all for it. I can't think of any suggestions for improvement at this time, but I'm sure sometime in the life of the project we'll have a good enough start to make the portal really spiffy. I had no idea we had such a nice shot of the Roskilde organ! That needs to be somewhere in Pipe organ.—Cor anglais 16 02:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organ Builder

The article Organ builder is being tagged with lots of cleanup type messages and is potentially a candidate for speedy deletion. Is it worth trying to save the article? –MDCollins (talk) 11:39, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I think List of organ builders would be a good place for the list; it could also be material for Category:Organ builders Category:Pipe organ builders, if the category proves a better idea than the list. Other than that, I don't think we can use that article at this time... maybe down the turnpike we can put together a decent article on organ builders, but personally, right now, I can't think of anything I'd put in one that would turn it into a decent-sized article. At any rate, the list needs to be saved in one form or another, with appropriate wikilinks to the organ builders' articles. —Cor anglais 16 12:47, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Have moved, see talk page for further work. I'll get onto this sometime soon! –MDCollins (talk) 18:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
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