Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics/Archive 1

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This WikiProject is now active as of August 22 2005.We will be updating and expanding it. If you would like to join please sign your name on the participants list. If you have any questions you can leave a message here. Johann Wolfgang 03:41, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Dead

Man, I've seen a few new coin articles pop up, and a fair amount of editing on existing numismatic related articles. I can't believe no one else has signed up yet. Joe I 00:38, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Note

Maybe we should put up a few notes on the village pump or the Community Portal. Or why not put together a featured article to get some attention directed towards it. I'm also thinking of putting up a messaging list for people interested.



Johann Wolfgang [ T ...C ]
03:04, 7 October 2005 (UTC)




Note

I would like to expand this project to cover all coinage (ancient/medieval/modern) . There is currently no structure or organization to the coin-related articles in wikipedia. Does anyone have any ideas how to better organize the topics? Maximus Rex 13:10, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)

We should organize all the coinage articles in descending order (if possible) by time period (ie., ancient/medieval/modern), continent, country, date, mint, and variety. --Merovingian ↕ Talk 13:19, Mar 23, 2004 (UTC)
There is a huge amount of information out there already about current coins. For example, tenge. I don't think this is under the numismatics project, but I'm new around here and don't know how to tell. There's an infobox there with the name of the currency for each country in that continent which is very useful. Should that be listed somewhere? --mom2jandk 12:45, 07 November 2005 (UTC)
Goto Template:Numismaticnotice, hit "what links here", and that's all the Numinastic articles we know about.  :) Joe I 03:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
Finally figured out how to do that (should've asked, but I always get sidetracked finding something else to read or do). Anyway, there's lots of stuff not there. I've found some by trying to go through the category hierarchy which is a mess (see my comment below under Categories). If I find a numismatic article that doesn't have the notice, I assume I should add it, right? Mom2jandk 22:36, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Definatly put it in there if you'd like. I thought we'd gotten all the ones in categories, but guess not. If you find any without categories, please find one to put it in as well :) Joe I 01:06, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Template Infobox for coins

I've created a {{Coin infobox}} template. I based it on the discussions here as well as the Infobox page. I've implemented it on the United States dollar coin page for everyone to see. I'm proposing that this become the standard. In case you aren't aware, infobox templates are very nice because they allow editors to easily create the infobox by copying a standard format and filling in a form. Take a look at the source code to the US dollar coin page for a great example of this.

If this is acceptable to everyone, I'll edit the main Project page to describe how to use it when editing coin pages. I haven't looked into paper currency to see if there is any standard infobox for it yet, but I'm sure it'd be a good idea to create ona and use it. Markkawika 03:42, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I've had a problem with the infoboxs since day one I saw them. They just seem to big. Having that big a&& coin stareing at me freaks me out :) besides scrunchin the text up, such as United States dollar coin, and the infobox heading has the denomination in it, should the value be listed right under it? I played around with it awhile back. See here. Joe I 21:21, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, personally I feel like having a picture of the coin on the page that talks about the coin is an important feature. As to the need for the value, it doesn't make much sense on the Dollar Coin page, I agree, but if you look at the Dime page, it is very helpful because it explains that "one dime" is equivalent to "0.10 U.S. Dollars". So I feel that both the value and the denomination should stay. I'm certainly open to the idea of tweaking the width somewhat if that is the consensus. Markkawika 23:50, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

And now that I've continued to explore Coin pages, I found the {{Coin}} template, created by an anonymous user. It's about the same as my template, but with less descriptive variable names, and with visible lines in the table. I personally prefer the appearance of it, but I like certain parts of mine (the auto-insertion of the "Image:" tag and the "200px" image scaler). Anyone object if I merge the two together? Markkawika 09:46, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I think it would be great if you merged them. I'd like to reiterate what User:KeithTyler said below, that the years of minting should be included. I'd also like to see the catalog number included, although this is maybe more relevant to world coins (my interest). When talking about a specific type of world coin, it is, in my experience, the chief identifier. For world coins, the Standard Catalog of World Coins is the catalog. Mom2jandk 03:28, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Infobox

I've placed a copy of the infobox at Wikipedia:Infobox, so please be sure that any changes are reflected there as well. Tuf-Kat 04:39, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest including years of minting in the Infobox. - KeithTyler 18:34, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

Infobox image

Shouldn't the image used in an infobox be a high grade example when available? Also, for coins that have changed appearance, I think you should either use the most recent version or the version that was minted for the longest time. --brian0918™ 13:07, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree that it should be the highest-grade legal example available. I've upgraded the images on the US Half dollar page using this rationale. As to what image to use, that's a really good question. In my personal opinion, each separate example of a coin should have its own page, though that's probably more work than it's worth. For now I agree with you, use the most representative version of the coin. Markkawika 09:50, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
I think it has to apply to only a single example of the coin since the information included (like composition, design, etc) is specific to a specific type. Including all examples is not practical for all coins, but the box has to refer to a specific type, and the image should match that type. Including the years of minting, and possibly catalog number (see above) will make it more clear which type it refers to. Mom2jandk 03:28, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
See also Sacagawea Dollar for a succession box mentioned on article page. Joe I 00:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Inactive

I think we should start up this Wikiproject again.
Johann Wolfgang 19:53, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm in, for what it's worth. Not alot of free time, but better than none. :) Joe I 01:52, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
I'll help out where I can.--chris.lawson 01:52, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 Project

Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team. We are looking for quality articles for a print or CD version of Wikipedia. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles on Numismatics? I know that this project has been dormant for some time, but any suggestions are welcome. Cheers. --Shanel 22:00, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

InfoBox

The infobox says just value, should that be face value or redemption value? Joe I 04:42, 12 October 2005 (UTC)



Almost all numismatic and currency guides do not include redemption value. I think it should be face value instead.



Johann Wolfgang [ T ...C ]
18:07, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Sign up?

The front page says that there is a sign up list, but I don't see one. --Kurthalomieu J. McCool 03:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Theres a link on the front page to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Numismatics/Participants
Welcome Aboard ya'll :) Joe I 03:28, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
Oh, I see it now. It's been a long day. It think it'd be best if the link was at the top also. --Kurthalomieu J. McCool 05:27, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


I've added welcome messages to both your talk pages.
Thanks you for joining the WikiProject:Numismatics.


Johann Wolfgang [ T ...C ]
15:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

List of currencies

Should the List of circulating currencies page be added to this project? – Zntrip 18:03, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure... This project seems to be about Numismatics, but I wouldn't mind if its scope were widened to include currencies in general... As it is now, however, I'm fairly sure that only coins should be included. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 20:49, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I suppose, but the Currency page is part of the project. And we all know that the List of currencies page’s list is far more superior than the currency page’s. ;) – Zntrip 22:17, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

True that, true that. I'm still highly in favour of widening this project's scope to include currencies and monetary affairs in general (not in the least connected to the fact that I'm mostly interested in changes of currencies... ;)). ナイトスタリオン ✉ 08:56, 23 October 2005 (UTC)



Currency is considered numismatics.



Johann Wolfgang [ T ...C ]
17:11, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

I just updated the link from [[List of currencies]] to [[List of circulating currencies]] in the above comment. Ingrid 05:43, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Roman coins

Some work is left at commons:Category:Roman coins, see commons:User:Saperaud/Money. --Saperaud 02:04, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Additional proposed table for all numismatic articles

In the above proposed table, if it is used, Tokens, Medals, Orders, and Decorations should be under Exonumia. Also, Stocks, Bonds and Checks should maybe be under Paper Money (not my area so I am not sure...). --Qwertypoiuy 17:20, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Isle of Man pound

The stub claims to contain a picture of the five pound note, but the picture is of a one pound coin. I decided not to alter anything myself, leaving it to the project members to add the picture or remove the referance. The stub does describe some points of interest about the note.

Thanks for pointing that out, we'll take care of it soon.



Johann Wolfgang [ T ...C ]
17:07, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Standard for currency articles

Currently, a number of currencies is still not at the standard name of Somewhereian generic currency (Namibian dollar), but at Generic currency (Kwanza) or Generic currency (currency) (Rand (currency)). I've listed all currencies that should be moved at Wikipedia:Requested moves, and I suppose this WikiProject is the place where talk on this should take place. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 17:15, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

  1. Support all of the relevant moves. Stefán Ingi (talk) 15:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
  2. Support. Almost forgot to vote myself... ;) ナイトスタリオン ✉ 17:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
  3. Support per Stefán and Nightstallion.--chris.lawson 01:51, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
  4. Support per Stefán, Nightstallion and Chris :) I oppose removal of diacritics from the names - though I'll support the addition of ASCII forms to the articles with the "foreignchar" template or some other mechanism. - Haukur Þorgeirsson

Discussion

From WP:RM The list:

Do all the names you are proposing fit in with the international standard names used in ISO 4217 ? -- Philip Baird Shearer 15:45, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes. The only ones I left out for now are Pound sterling (should be Great British pound) and Renminbi (should be Chinese yuan); the others follow the ISO code. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 16:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Please see ISO web site: Currency codes which has a link to ISO 4217 Currency names and code elements I have not looked through them all but "Icelandic króna" is wrong it should be "Icelandic krona" and it also seems that they do not use the country in the name of a currency unless it is for disambiguation puropses eg "Dobra" is under "Debra" not "São Tomé and Príncipe dobra" --Philip Baird Shearer 03:56, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
I realize that. I'm not sold on króna, if there's consensus, let it be krona; but I think the standardization is worth going against ISO in a few cases. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 08:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Also the Polish Zloty. Normally I do not approve of using ASCII as a starndard because in most cases it is a cultural not a techical issue as to why the English language only uses 26 characters. But in these cases the reason why ISO uses ASCII (and can't remember, but it may be only UPPER CASE) is to do with backwards compatability on the SWIFT system and the other banking systems linked to them. It is hard enough to convert EBCDIC to ASCII and back without trying to convert anything else. --Philip Baird Shearer 10:13, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, but that doesn't mean we have to be backwards compatible with SWIFT, does it? ;) I think we don't always need to follow the standard. We don't do it with country names, anyway... ナイトスタリオン ✉ 09:15, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I did a few which didn't need an administrator Stefán Ingi 23:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I did all of those who didn't need an admin. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 08:11, 17 November 2005 (UTC)


Final cases

The remaining five have just been done by Rob Church and his bot. Next, I'd like to discuss the two remaining cases: The British pound/Pound sterling and the Chinese yuan/Renminbi. What place should those articles be at? I'm not even sure myself, so I'd like to hear what arguments you've got for either variant. Thanks! ナイトスタリオン ✉ 22:53, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Rather than answer the question, let me add another Gulden (historical currency) is both the Austro-Hungarian gulden and German gulden (plus there's a Dutch gulden, but that's already a separate article). There's a precedent at franc which is about the franc generally. Still, I find the gulden article confusing since they appear to be completely separate currencies with the same name (and derived from the same currency), but the article format makes it seem like they're the same. I'm not sure if I understand the topic enough to split the article, but I might try anyway. Mom2jandk 02:26, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually, let me add my opinon on the other topic as well. I don't see why the articles shouldn't match the style used elsewhere. I'm not sure I fully understand what Renminbi is though. Is it that they call their currency "renminbi" but that's not the denomination? Sort of like "renminbi" means "Chinese money" in Chinese? I think there could also be either a separate article for renminbi linking to Chinese yuan, or just a redirect from renminbi. Either way, I'd like to see an explanation somewhere of why there are two names, since reading the current article didn't fully explain it to me. As far as British pound, I think it's comparable to Deutsche Mark which I believe should be moved to "German mark" with a redirect and mention that it's often referred to as "Deutsche Mark". Or am I missing some subtlety in the importance of "Pound sterling" as opposed to "British pound". Mom2jandk 02:26, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Personally, I'd be for "Chinese yuan" and "British pound", yeah. It'd be great if you could split the gulden articles. I'll try to add more currencies that need to be moved below; I think that this one very productive user, Dove-something, now adds new article links by the style guidelines, so we should be okay after those moves. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 07:00, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I think, if there is any debate on naming, just leave it the way it is, then put redirects to the article. This would save time and would take fewer people. However when Searchme (Joe1) and I started labeling articles for categorization and sorting, we realized there were a lot of coin articles, somewhere around 1000 to 1200. So we will certainly have our work cut out for us.


Johann Wolfgang 23:32, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Commemoratives

I started a Modern_Commemoratives page. Right now it's just an incomplete list, if you can fill in something, please feel free. Joe I 23:23, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

British Commonwealth Numismatics.

There is a British Commonwealth numismatic page where you can link your articles to.It is here; British Commonwealth Numismatics. - (Aidan Work 05:33, 16 November 2005 (UTC))

Now at Wikipedia:WikiProject British Commonwealth Numismatics. Mom2jandk 19:15, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Style

There are some style inconsistencies in existing articles and categories. We should pick a style to use, "coins of France", "French coinage", or "French coins". Also, we should pick between "banknote" and "paper money". As in, "French banknotes" or "French paper money". I don't personally have a preference as far as coins go. I prefer "banknotes" to "paper money", but don't really care. Mom2jandk 05:15, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

My vote goes for French banknotes and French coins; banknotes is stilistically nicer than paper money, IMO, and the equivalent to French banknotes is clearly French coins. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 06:47, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
I just noticed that there's already a style page for the project. I'm moving this discussion there (I don't know the etiquette of moving someone else's text, so I'm copying it there but also leaving it here; I hope that's okay). Please follow up on the style page.

Article merge/split help

We now have a complex situation with a couple of articles, and I was wondering if an admin, or just someone with more wiki-experience could help. There was an article, Gulden (historical denomination) that needed to be split into two articles, South German gulden and Austro-Hungarian gulden. The split was done by cut and paste, so the article history was lost, which as I understand it, violates the GFDL. So, is there an easy way to fix that? Or do we have to delete the new articles then somehow split the existing article? Then, South German gulden needs to be merged with Austrian florin. Anyone want to volunteer to see it through (can you tell I'd rather not mess with it)? Mom2jandk 05:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I just found another weird one at Aruban florin. When I click discussion, I'm taken to a redirect page, titled Talk:Aruban guilder and pointing to Talk:Aruban gulden. I guess something got messed up in a rename. Anyone know how to fix it? Mom2jandk 06:19, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

We'll have to ask an admin to move Talk:Aruban gulden to Talk:Aruban florin, it was somehow messed up in the moving madness that took place. And regarding the South German/Austro-Hungarian gulden mess - am I glad I'm not an admin yet. ;) ナイトスタリオン ✉ 11:17, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I would take a crack at trying to sort it out if I weren't heading out - if it's still unresolved later I'll try to fix it...in the meantime I added some categories to the South German and Austro-Hungarian gulden...as they say, it's the least I could do (and I always do the least! yuk yuk!) Paul 15:14, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Something just reminded me - regarding the categorization of coinage-related laws - I'm also working on subcategorizing the fairly large amount of U.S. federal laws - the format I've been using is generally along the lines of Category:United States federal banking legislation, for example. However, Category:United States federal coinage/currency legislation doesn't quite work...perhaps "monetary" or something like that? I hate when I mess up on categories, so I need feedback. Paul 15:17, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Why would Category:United States federal currency legislation not work? Ingrid 00:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
It would work and it's probably what we'd end up using, although "currency legislation" isn't a term that I've ever heard before Paul 03:19, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with Ingrid. It should be Category:United States federal currency legislation. Category:United States federal monetary legislation is not correct because it includes legislation about the Federal Reserve system, interest rates, etc. "Currency legislation" says exactly what we want it so say: laws about the printing of notes and minting of coins, and related topics. Markkawika 06:30, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Would an admin be volunteer Rhodesian Dollar to Rhodesian dollar without having to go through any formal process? I don't know why it's not working for me. Rhodesian dollar exists, but it's just a redirect. Ingrid 00:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. You couldn't move it because it wasn't just a redirect to the other page, it had content in its history. Titoxd(?!? - did you read this?) 03:39, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
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