Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey

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	This article is part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey, an attempt at building a useful ice hockey resource. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page (see Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information). Edit this message Ice hockey Portal
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	To-do list for Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey:	edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
Document the Categories structure. - Done see: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Category structure Create a uniform ice hockey player article format. - Done see: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/Player_pages_format Created templates that can be inserted that will identify missing information. Create a uniform ice hockey team article format. Create a uniform ice hockey league article format. Create a uniform ice hockey Trophies and Awards article format. Fix Professional ice hockey world championships Create a page about at least one hockey team from every country.

Archives
December 2004 - October 2005 October 2005 - March 2006 March 2006 - May 2006 May 2006 - June 2006 June 2006 - August 2006 August 2006 - September 2006 September 2006 - November 2006 November 2006 - December 2006 January 2007 - February 2007

Contents 1 Cory Schneider 2 Team abbreviations template 3 Guideline for the offseason? 4 List of NHL Draft Busts 5 New article: Esso Women's Nationals 6 Wikipedia:WikiProject National Hockey League 7 Wayne Gretzky's Nationality 8 Infoboxes for defunct NHL teams 9 Minnesota North Stars 10 Professional Ice Hockey 11 List of NHL players with 600 goals 12 Category organization 13 Blocker or blocker? 14 WP Munich- Sports Task Force Invitation 15 Bill Stewart (ice hockey player) and Bill Stewart (sports)

[edit] Cory Schneider

An anonymous user has tagged Cory Schneider for deletion, based on "notability." However, I don't really know what to do about it, because it does not seem to be an AFD. I don't really know what to do about this; any help? Skudrafan1 22:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Fixed it, Schneider is notable. --Krm500 23:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

A prod tag is a proposed deletion. If it is left intact for five days, an admin may delete it as an uncontroversial deletion. If you disagree with a prod request, you may remove the tag for any, or no, reason. At that point, the user who prodded the article may choose to take it to AfD, or drop the issue. Once a prod tag has been removed from an article, it cannot be readded. Resolute 23:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, guys. Skudrafan1 23:28, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Team abbreviations template

I've finally picked my project to chart the various lists of NHL players (see List of NHL players: B - any help anyone wants to offer would be appreciated), and for sake of simplicity in listing and linking team names, I have created the following template: {{NHLteamabbr}}

If anyone else can think of a list or situation where a need to show all 50 current and former team names would exist, or if I missed any teams/have an incorrect abbreviation, it would be appreciated. A decent abbreviation to distinguish the original Senators from the current team currently eludes me. Resolute 02:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Have these abbreviations been used anywhere? I don't recall seeing MNS for example. Otherwise, this seems to be "original research" and not appropriate for an encyclopedia/Wikipedia. I see what you're doing now. I'm not sure I like the idea of creating non-standard abbreviations. In cases where standard abbreviations could refer to more than one team (Minn for North Stars or Wild, Ott for the two incarnations of the Senators), most often historical time period will differentiate. In ambiguous situations, a footnote would seem better than idiosyncratic abbreviations. Does the NHL or a book on the history of the NHL use an abbreviation, so that they would be in wider use than here? - Cafemusique 12:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC) revised 12:56

For the most part, the abbreviations are standard abbreviations used presently, or historically, across the league. For current cities with previous teams, I simply added the first letter of the nickname for the previous teams. The Ottawa Senators situation is obviously a challenge. MNS for the Minnesota North Stars was simply the most convienent abbreviation I could come up with. It looked better to me than MinN or MinNS. I had thought of simply letting historical period differentiate, however unless people know of the histories behind the teams, it may be more difficult for them to determine which Min is being referred to. Resolute 15:16, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

for the first Ottawa Senators, why don't you put Ottawa Silver Seven or Ottawa Hockey Club ? TaraO 18:41, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Because they were known as the Ottawa Senators at the time they were in the NHL. Resolute 20:03, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

There are a few notes I'd like to mention: the two Sens incarnations do not overlap, so when referring to a player as being a Senator, it should be unambiguous to which Sens it is (indeed NHL sources do not differentiate the two). Same thing with Pirate and Penguin players, as well as Quakers and Flyers players, Bulldogs and Nordiques players, and Eagles and Blues players (all of which have in common, of course, is that the Original Six era straddled the two teams). There might be minor confusion to as to players who played on both the Rockies and Avalanche, or the North Stars and Wild, or Flames and Thrashers. There are a few other unconventional abbreviations used: the Hartford Whalers used "HFD" in every NHL source I've seen, "CBJ" has been used more than "CLB" for the Columbus Blue Jackets (especially in the media and the team logo), and "CAL" usually refers to the Calgary Flames and not the California Golden Seals (according to NHL sources, which usually used "OAK"). Using "BYK" for the Brooklyn Americans is just esoteric, as even NHL sources used "NYA" or "BRO" during that one year. In a bit of excessiveness, I've also seen "NJD", "WSH", "NSH", and "TBY" used for the Devils, Caps, Preds, and Lightning, repectively. Then there's the aberration that also, in some sources, referred to the Isles as "LI". kelvSYC 02:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guideline for the offseason?

Is there any guidelines for the current roster section on team pages during the offseason? Should players be on the current roster until they sign with a new team (if they're free agents)? Or should all players without a contract be removed? --Krm500 17:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there's a guideline for this. The pratice has been at Wikipedia, to leave free agents with last contractual team, until & if they signed with a new team. You could propose a 'free agent' guideline and seek your peers opinons on it. GoodDay 18:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah usually we just tend to leave them there till the season starts. If they haven't been signed by then we remove them. But there isn't any set guideline. That's just sorta how it happens. --DJSasso 18:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Okey, thanks. --Krm500 21:30, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of NHL Draft Busts

Well, I finally decided to give the List of NHL Draft Busts article another shot at life on Wikipedia. I decided to delve into more depth as to the definition of a bust, the profile of the busts, and a place to put players that could become busts for whatever reason that you see. This, I feel, is much worthier of a Wikipedia article than the last article I did on the subject.

So if you have some spare time on your hands, critique the article for me. If you do so, thanks for the help. Hossmann 14:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest removing the section on potential draft busts. That will cause the article to get shot down in a hurry per WP:CRYSTAL. The most important part of this article will have to be sourcing. If there are reliable sources that argue such players are busts, it should be alright. Lacking sources, it will fall afoul of Wikipedia's original research and point of view policies. Resolute 14:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. Hossmann 17:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New article: Esso Women's Nationals

I'm surprised that there is no article on the Canadian senior women's ice hockey championships, the Esso Women's Nationals, or its trophy, the Abby Hoffman Cup. I've made an article on the former, but it's way below any real standard. Can someone with better knowledge of Canadian women's hockey add in some details, as well as the teams representing each province? (I can easily tell if an NWHL or WWHL team represents a province, but for the others...)

I also have to point out the articles on the NWHL and WWHL are far too inaccurate: while it's true that the NWHL and WWHL are the top leagues, Wikipedia has it that the WWHL is defunct (which it is not, as the media keep referring to it as being existent, although there is a partial truth to the fact that it was "absorbed" into the NWHL, as the WWHL teams - except the Calgary Oval X-Treme, the defending WWHL champions - are linked from the NWHL website). I also note that the Clarkson Cup has been subsequently awarded, although how it was I'm not too sure (as the last time I checked it did replace the NWHL Champion's Cup). Again, someone with better knowledge of Canadian women's hockey should fill in some details.

kelvSYC 02:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject National Hockey League

I noticed that a user has created this new Wikiproject, Wikipedia:WikiProject National Hockey League, to cover NHL-related articles. I already thought WikiProject Ice Hockey is already covering it. Or should it stay and be a "Descendant Wikiproject". Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 02:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Stupid, we already have an established project with many members that cover NHL articles. --Krm500 13:31, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wayne Gretzky's Nationality

This subject is reopening at Talk:Wayne Gretzky. Comments are requested from WikiProject Ice Hockey members. Flibirigit 05:15, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Similar to this issue is the issue of Rod Langway. Langway has a category for Taiwanese ice hockey players. He was born in Taiwan, but grew up and learned the game in the US. Should we add a category to his article for American ice hockey players? This same question would apply to several other players as well. Patken4 21:22, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes the current consensus is to add a category for both the country he was born in and the country they play internationally for if it is different. I don't know if Langway ever played for the American national team so that is why the category is absent. I will look into it and add it if he has.--Djsasso 22:36, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Have added the cat to Langway. --Djsasso 22:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infoboxes for defunct NHL teams

I noticed most of the articles on defunct NHL teams still use the old infoboxes we user, so I developed a variation of our current team infobox with some of the elements that require the team to be still active (e.g. coach, captain, GM, media affliates, etc.) stripped away. The box can be found at User:NeoChaosX/Infobox DefunctNHLTeam (I'm not moving it to template space just yet), and I've used California Golden Seals to try it out. Just doing this for the sake of consistency, is all. Any thoughts? NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 19:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks great. I do like the consistency. I notice the same with defunct arenas. I give the green light. 71.99.83.251 12:28, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

• Looks fine to me. RGTraynor 14:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
• Looks good to me as well. Though perhaps you could just make those particular fields unmanditory in the main box? Either way is fine. --Djsasso 17:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
  • I was thinking that, too, although that would require a major reworking of the code of the main infobox, something I don't have the time to do right now. If that were possible while still keeping the layout of the current main box intact, I would use it instead. For now, though, this will have to do. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 19:30, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
    • Ok sounds good to me. I have never tried to code a template here so wasn't sure what was involved. --Djsasso 22:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minnesota North Stars

On the List of MN North Stars players (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minnesota_North_Stars_players), there is a link on a player called Gary Sargent. But the link leads to a page that is either about a different Gary Sargent or has been vandalized. 24.245.35.74 19:42, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope it links to the right person. --Djsasso 22:39, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Professional Ice Hockey

I'm trying to get Ice Hockey to FA status. I have split a section of the article(lacking a worldwide view) into a separate, bigger article, but I can't write a good lead. Anybody able to do it? The Evil Clown 15:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Did you get consensus from other editors to do this? Kevlar67 03:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

No, but I took a look at it, and I wasn't myself bothered by it. RGTraynor 14:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

That's great and all. But really the other editors of Ice Hockey should sign off on something like this. I'm worried about it turning into a POV fork, or just being plain unnecessary. Practically all important hockey competitions in NA and W Europe have been pro for decades, and the Soviets were only "amateur" by a very generous interpretation. Do other sports divide their coverage on WP this way? I don’t know, but I’d guess not. Kevlar67 00:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of NHL players with 600 goals

I was wondering if anyone else thought that list was unnecessary, especially considering that there is a List of NHL players with 500 goals. -- Scorpion 01:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I would tend to agree. I see no problem with turning it into a redirect to List of NHL players with 500 goals. Would anyone have an issue with that? Resolute 04:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, I would recommend making the default sort on the list of NHLers with 500 goals to be number of goals rather than date it was achieved. Resolute 04:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

My main concern is that it would open up the possibility for other similar pages. Why a list for players with 400 goals, 1200 points, etc, etc. As for the default sortability option, it is a list of players who have achieved 500 goals, not the top scorers. -- Scorpion 04:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree about the concern of arbitrary figures being introduced. 500 is a number of key importance by the NHL, but anything else would be arbitrary. There is a List of NHL players with 700 goals, which has already been redirected. IMO, that is a good solution for this one too. Good point on the list of scorers, however, I think the date is a very poor default sort option. If not by total number of goals, then alphabetically would be ideal. Resolute 05:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

My opinion is that the sort method should be number of goals. The reason behind that is because with the redirects of other search phrases, such as List of NHL players with 700 goals, at least the researcher who was looking would easily be able to see those players at the top of the list even though all players with 500 goals are also listed. The number of goals scored as the sort is more useful. If the list is to only show those users at 500 goals or more, than alphabetized is best. However, it is more functional to sort by goals scored. Pparazorback 05:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

However List of NHL statistical leaders already sorts the 500 goals by number... sorting by date or even alphabetical give the page more identity and distinction... and if you say why don't just redirect to List of NHL statistical leaders, I would say this is more of a magnification of that page. 69.63.57.88 21:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC) (a defunct user)

Why should this be "magnified"? - Cafemusique 23:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Well not as much of a magnification as opposed to an extension. It is in more detail then the listing on List of NHL statistical leaders. And I may also add that it is sorted by date because that is how it is in the NHL Official Guide & Record Book, the source material. Mister Stat Master 21:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category organization

I was going to make subcategories of Category:Hockey Hall of Fame for builders, players, and officials. Does anyone have a problem with the naming scheme Category:Builders in the Hockey Hall of Fame, etc? When done, I will also need help sorting the current members of the main category. --Mus Musculus 18:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Do we need to chop it down that finely? (I'm not coming down on the notion, per se; I'm just interested in the rationale for doing so.) RGTraynor 20:00, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, the category is fairly large right now and not really browsable for a reader looking for members in a particular HHOF category. There are two lists of HHOF members, but they are alphabetical and chronological, not by category. We have been pursuing a goal of having an article for every HHOF member, so there are quite a few "Builders" and "Officials" in the category at this point. So, rather than having the bulk in one large category, I'd rather present the option of view just Players and so on. --Mus Musculus 20:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd prefer a list to a category. --Djsasso 22:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

So something like Members of the Hockey Hall of Fame by category? --Mus Musculus 00:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Probably something like List of Hockey Hall of Famers in the builders category something like that...though this example is a bit of a mouth full. Or List of Hockey Hall of Fame builders perhaps...unless that would confuse people to its purpose. --Djsasso 20:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Blocker or blocker?

I noticed there are two pages for a goalie's blocker. This one has more links to it, but this one seems more complete. Merge? Just thought I'd point it out! --Schmackity 13:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge it but use the name Blocker (hockey) because goalies in both field and ice hockey use blockers I do believe. Of course you will have to put that up for nom to do it tho. --Djsasso 18:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP Munich- Sports Task Force Invitation

I'm wondering if anyone in here would like to join WikiProject Munich and help out with the hockey section for the Sports Task Force. Kingjeff 18:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know much about hockey in Germany. What kind of help is it that you are looking for? --Krm500 21:41, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bill Stewart (ice hockey player) and Bill Stewart (sports)

Just so there isn't any confusion between the two, I've labeled Bill Stewart, who played in the NHL in 80's and later coached the Islaners, as Bill Stewart (ice hockey player) and Bill Stewart who was an ice hockey and baseball offical as well as coach of the Blackhawks as Bill Stewart (sports). The Bill Stewart in the US Hockey Hall of Fame is the sports Bill Stewart. Patken4 17:54, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

We need to change the one to Bill Stewart (ice hockey) because if you use the word player in there it is too specific since he was a coach as well. Or (ice hockey b. xxxx) for whatever year he was born in cause using the word player makes it too specific since he was a coach as well. --Djsasso 19:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. I'll also did a dablink from Bill Stewart (ice hockey) to Bill Stewart (sports). Patken4 19:52, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like I found a duplicate article. If you know much about these guys you might want to merge whats necessary and put it up for deletion. Bill Stewart (hockey coach). --Djsasso 23:20, 31 March 2007 (UTC)