Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Templates

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Contents

[edit] Template standardization

How about standardizing all those templates on the bottom of most of the football related articles? I've thought about this for a while, and my proposition is pretty simple, the bottom page template boxes are started with a {{fb start}} template, and ended with a {{fb end}} template. All other templates, for national leagues, international competitions, club history series, and anything other, should then be modified so that they can be placed between the start and end tags to produce a good looking infobox. An example of the written code could look something like this:

{{fb start}}
{{Football in Sweden}}
{{Allsvenskan}}
{{Royal League}}
{{fb end}}

And it would produce this result. See the 1-5 links on the page for examples on how {{fb start}}, {{Football in Sweden}}, {{Allsvenskan}}, {{Royal League}} and {{fb end}} could look like. The whole meaning of this would be a system where any infobox could be placed on any page without having to have them as separate boxes, or rewriting the templates, meaning that in theory it should be simple to group into one infobox the listing of the teams in the FA Premier League with the listing of the Asian football federations and the Man Utd infobox, together with standard links for Swedish football.

Standard colours for header rows, standard methods for listing teams, and other standardizations should also be introduced to make these boxes look good when combining several different pieces. Comments? -- Elisson • Talk 19:31, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Looks ok to me. CTOAGN (talk) 20:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I've created {{fb start}} (redirects to {{football box start}}) and {{fb end}} (redirects to {{football box end}}), so feel free to either discuss what the standard boxes should look like, or start implementing the standard in football infoboxes. -- Elisson • Talk 01:23, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

I support your proposal. It looks pretty good in the version from your sandbox. About its actual implementation, we could even start right now. I don't think people will get disappointed by that, it's not a particularly invasive change. --Angelo 21:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it looks good, and should be implemented. Oldelpaso 01:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm all for it. -Aabha (talk) 03:39, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it's a great addition. ⁂veila# 04:00, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Great! I've spent this evening modifying some 500 pages to go with the standard. I've changed the {{International football}}, {{Football World Cup}} and {{Non-FIFA teams}} templates, the templates for national teams and national associations for all six confederations, and a few more. I think these were the thoughest to get through, so even though there are several dozens of templates left, they should be easier to handle as they aren't scattered all over Wikipedia, which means you olny need to modify a few pages at a time (which was not the case with the International football template ;) ). -- Elisson • Talk 22:00, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal

[edit] Layout

  • {{fb start}}:
    {| class="toccolours" style="margin: 0.5em auto; width:47em; clear: both;"
    This starts the box and produces the standard layout and defines margins and width.
  • {{fb end}}:
    |}
    This ends the box.
  • {{Copa América}} (a template listing stuff):
    <noinclude>{{fb start}}</noinclude>
    This does nothing to the template except making it easier to see how a template looks.
    |-
    This starts a new row.
    !colspan="12" style="background:#BFD7FF;"|[[Copa América]]
    This designs the started row to be a header row, defines the column span, defines background colour and produces the header text (linked, in this case).
    |-
    This starts a new row.
    |colspan="12" style="text-align:center;"|
    This designs the started row, defines the column span and centers the text that will follow.
    <!-- NBSPs prevent wrapping-->
    This is just a note to the editors of the template that the entries in the text that will follow prevents wrapping in the middle of a link.
    [[South American Championship 1916|Argentina&nbsp;1916]]&nbsp;|
    ...
    [[Copa América 2004|Peru&nbsp;2004]]&nbsp;|
    [[Copa América 2007|Venezuela&nbsp;2007]]<noinclude>
    This is the text that is contained in the started row. The last entry should not be ended by any pipe. but instead by the <noinclude> tag. This prevents extra rows to be added when using the template.
    {{fb end}}</noinclude>
    This does nothing to the template except making it easier to see how a template looks, note that the <noinclude> starting tag must be placed on the row above.
  • {{Football in Sweden}} (a template with tables):
    <noinclude>{{fb start}}</noinclude>
    This does nothing to the template except making it easier to see how a template looks.
    |-
    This starts a new row.
    !colspan="12" style="background:#BFD7FF;"|[[Football in Sweden]]
    This designs the started row to be a header row, defines the column span, defines background colour and produces the header text (linked, in this case).
    |-
    This starts a new row.
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Swedish Football Association|National association]]
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Sweden national football team|National team]]
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[List of football clubs in Sweden|List of clubs]]
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Swedish football champions|Champions]]
    This designs the started row, defines four columns, defines the column span and centers the text that follows.
    |-
    This starts a new row.
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Football records in Sweden|Records]]
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Sweden women's national football team|Women's national team]]
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[List of women's football clubs in Sweden|List of women's clubs]]
    |colspan="3" style="text-align:center;"|[[Seasons in Swedish football|Seasons]]
    This designs the started row, defines four columns, defines the column span and centers the text that follows.
    <noinclude>{{fb end}}</noinclude>
    This does nothing to the template except making it easier to see how a template looks.

[edit] Discussion

The width defined in {{fb start}}
  • What should it be set to? As this affects every box that uses this standardization, it should fit every use. Too narrow would make boxes with long lists very "high", and too wide would make boxes with little information very "empty". I think something around 45-50em seems fine. -- Elisson • Talk 18:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
    • A bit more, maybe. I suggest 55em. Anyhow, what about using percentiles instead of absolute values? I guess it would fit better with every different resolution configuration. --Angelo 02:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Percentiles might be better. -- Elisson • Talk 13:10, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
        • Won't percentiles cause breakage if a user increases the font size? I'd advocate sticking with ems myself. ⁂veila# 09:16, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
The header colour defined in the template
  • I believe that we should use a standard colour for templates, and #BFD7FF is a fairly "neutral" colour. The colour can of course be different in case of for example a club box like {{Manchester United}}. -- Elisson • Talk 18:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
    • That's good. By the way, I recently implemented that colour on all the Italian football templates, from Serie A to Serie C2/C. --Angelo 02:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
The total number of columns defined in the template
  • I have set this number to 12, to make most designs currently used still be compatible with the standardization. 12 is dividible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 12, which allows many configurations of the number of columns in table boxes. This number is crucial as any two separate boxes that are added between the same {{fb start}} and {{fb end}} need to have the same total column number (but not necessarily the same configuration). -- Elisson • Talk 18:00, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Twelve? Isn't it too much?!? Whatever, if it does not add any relevant issue of development for possible future template, it's good anyway. --Angelo 02:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
      • Twelve is the lowest number dividible by two, three and four. Having less "total columns" than that would make it impossible to design good looking templates with one of these numbers of columns. -- Elisson • Talk 13:10, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
    • Is it necessary to design the set of template so that the number of columns must be defined in every inner template (and hard-coded to the magic number 12)? That may be an overkill to some newbies, especially considering that most templates only have one column. Is it possible to presume the number of column of every inner template to be 1, and shift the burden of defining inner tables within a template to those templates (and their authors) who'd like to have multiple-columns? --Pkchan 18:14, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
      • It is necessary if we want to be able to combine templates which have different numbers of columns. At least I can't think of any other way to solve it. – Elisson • Talk 18:25, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
        • What I am thinking of is this: Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Templates/Sandbox. I haven't solved the issue of the inner template's cell background being white, but I believe that that can be easily solved by adopting the toccolour class' background to the inner table's style definition (that part can, in fact, be governed by another template). This way, the internal layout of an inner template is at the discretion of its author, and ordinary template writers don't have to take care of this magic number 12 in most cases unless he/she would like to design a multi-column one. --Pkchan 18:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
        • Inner tables fixed. --Pkchan 14:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is this ready for adoption yet?

Since there hasn't been any discussion in quite some time on this proposal, is it fair to assume that the current incarnation is ready for use? Or is Pkchan's alternative compelling enough to warrant further debate? The World Cup means that every football related page I come across seems to have a small forest of infoboxes at the bottom, so it seems a good time to try and get this agreed upon and brought into use. ⁂veila# 05:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

If it is possible to do what Pkchan suggested, then I think we should try to fix that before adopting the whole thing. Otherwise it is almost complete. I'll work on it a little and see what I can do. – Elisson • Talk 13:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I just did a quick check and it seems that between 1000 and 1500 pages now include the fb start/end templates. I think inertia might have defined the winning solution already. Or does Pkchan's method permit colspan values that are designed for the original? ⁂veila# 11:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Pkchan's method allow for users to use any configuration of the columns, and they do not need to make the number of columns add up to 12. So I think that is the way to go. On the other hand, this means that all templates that have been adjusted for use with the {{fb start}} and {{fb end}} need to be re-adjusted. But there seems to be "only" around 60 navboxes out there that needs to be edited, so I think we should go for that and allow more flexibility for the templates.
I've moved the necessary templates to the template namespace, at {{fb inner start}} and {{fb inner end}}. These should be used in the navbox template itself, and not in the pages which should have the navbox. I'll move the above proposal to the main page as there seems to be consensus for using it, will also add more in depth explanation on how to implement and use the templates.
– Elisson • Talk 12:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I've now added info to the project page, and also created a template that should be added to all navbox templates, as it explains usage and adds the navbox template to a category for easy browsing. Now we only have to convert the already modified navboxes to the new standard. – Elisson • Talk 14:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
And now I think I have updated all templates to the new standard. – Elisson • Talk 23:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help please!

I have created a navibox for all English County Football Associations at Template:County Football Association.
I have since used the instructions here to convert this into a standard navibox for use within the {{fb start}} {{fb end}} templates.
However, despite following the instructions exactly, the standardised template seems not to close properly (therefore incorporating subsequent templates into it - see Cambridge_University_Association_Football_League#External links for what I mean.)
What have I done wrong? --MLD 15:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

You have done nothing wrong. It is just that not all templates are standardised yet, and may thus not work with {{fb start}} and {{fb end}}. I've fixed it for Cambridge University Association Football League. – Elisson • T • C • 16:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh, I see! The problem was that the existing {{Football in England}} template was not yet standardised - I thought it was because I'd missed a step in creating the {{County Football Association}} template.
Maybe I'll have a look at standardising that one next! Thanks for your help
--MLD 16:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New templates

I have created three more to fit this style - {{AUS fb general}}, {{AUS fb A-League}}, {{AUS fb states}}. Do these need to be listed anywhere (apart from the category which they are automatically a member of?) Examples of their use is at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject A-League. -- Chuq 06:28, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

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