Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Matches

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WikiProject on Football
Main pages
Main project	talk
Football in...
Australia	talk
The USA and Canada	talk
Italy	talk
English non-league	talk
Football portal	talk
New articles	talk
Cleanup articles	talk
Football AID
Article improvement drive	talk
Previous collaborations	talk
Featured collaborations	talk
Previous nominations	talk
Football Assessment
Assessment Department	talk
Assessment log	talk
Manual of style
Club articles	talk
Club templates	talk
National team articles	talk
National team templates	talk
National association articles	talk
National assn. templates	talk
Competition articles	talk
Match articles	talk
Player articles	talk
Stadium articles	talk
Other
Category structure	talk
Notability criteria	talk
Template list	talk
External links	talk

Some example which have been written without the use of a template White Horse Final 82.36.105.204 15:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 New ideas 2 Alternative version 3 footballbox template 4 Structure of article 5 Derbies

[edit] New ideas

• I've modified the article FA Cup Final 1997 to show a prototype for a football match template. Does anyone have any comments on this? I've tried to add as much relevant info as I can, opting not to include the squad numbers of the players. I'd like it to be turned into a template, similar to the football player infobox.
• Category:Football (soccer) matches shows matches in the 'date first' format, such as 2005 League Cup Final and in the 'date last' format, such as FA Cup Final 2001. I think the latter is much better, as when viewed in the category, sorting by competition first seems a much more sensible option.

Slumgum 19:30, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

My twopennyworth:

1. Each player's starting position would be a worthy inclusion here. It may also help the template users to sort the players in the right order.
2. The yellow card doesn't look right to me... not in the right proportion, and too blurry on the edge. --Pkchan 04:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

• Why were you opposed to including squad numbers?
• I think it would look much more appealing with Template:Football kit instead of the textual description.
• Most times I've seen this kind of construct, substitute appearances are placed in brackets alongside the player they replaced and the time of the substitution.
• Agree with Pkchan regarding the yellow card.
• I'm not sure about the match rules section. Is that getting a little too detailed for a synopsis? Would it be better placed in the article itself?
• Kick-off time would be nice to have.
• The venue should probably also give the country in which it was played. It's not always safe to assume that the reader can tell that from the stadium name.

I think, though, that it could be a really useful template. ⁂veila# 05:49, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I've made a couple of changes, including (crudely) adding the squad numbers. Old version/new version

• Starting positions - hard to research, esp. if for an old match. Would require another column - perhaps a little 4-4-2 notation might suffice, as long as the players are in order? I think it should be included, perhaps in a hidden field that only appears if used?
• Yellow card icon - I agree, it should be improved. I made the {{Yel}} template using an already uploaded (but small) file, which resulted in a blurry look. A nice pic with proper aspect ratio and a thin border would be better. I'll get onto it.
• Squad numbers - I found it impossible to add in internal table without drastically increasing the size. Perhaps someone with better skillz could take the mantle(?) The current version is good in terms of space, but the bulleted list looked better. It's a little crude at the moment as I had to add a leading zero to single-digit squad nos to keep it aligned - because I'm not expert at wikitables! It's also worth remembering that there was a time before squad numbers, and even a time with no numbers at all. The template should be adaptable to reflect this. BTW, This is a good reference source for outdated squad lists.
• Team colours - It would be nice to include a kit template, but this may be going a bit too far, as we are limited for space. I only added the note because I'd left myself with a little space. I think just a little note such as this would tell people who really care all they need to know, such as whether the club was wearing their home/away/3rd kit (important say, in an Everton-Chelsea cup final) or a combination of shirt and shorts from different kits to avoid a clash, such as I remember Brazil doing in WC2002. Perhaps a new mini-template like a bar chart would suffice?
• Match rules - I initially added this part because the middle column looked empty. Now I think it's necessary - the amount of substitutions available is important, since rules have changed over the years and are different from comp to comp. It's good to know what options a manager had/took. Back in the 60s, no substitutions were allowed, so a note is needed for those who don't know what rules came in when. Including it on the template ensures it will be in the article somewhere. Also, there are competitions which utilise different interpretations of the away goals rule (instead of; or after extra-time; or none at all). If it's on the template, writers will remember to include it, and I feel it's another important thing to know in the context of the match.
• Substitutions - I've changed the notation - I think it looks much better now. With the possibility of simultaneous multiple substitutions nowadays, it's not always clear who is on for who - this method caters for that. It also makes it clear who started on the bench and who started on the pitch.
• Kick off time - now included - (should always be local time, of course)
• Venue country - I think it's obvious in an FA Cup article, but for other comps, it can be a template field under the same heading.

I'm not sure it needs to be 100% of the screen width - readers with lower screen resolutions should be considered.

I would really like to see a template created, although I don't think I could do one. With some big competitions this year, I think a Template:Football match would be really good to have. It would be great if an expert could step in.
Slumgum 22:04, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternative version

2004-05 FA Premier League - August is an oddly titled article, since it's just a single match, but it has another football match representation that's worth considering.

Pros

The layout is quite aesthetically pleasing.

Shows players' starting positions

Gives itself a lot of extra space for supplementary info.

Cons

I don't like the bookings notation on this though, I prefer the icon option.

It could be better aligned.

The text is small.

Doesn't show the two unused substitutes; could easily be adapted tho'.

No kit colours identified.

Other than that, it shows everything a good template should, and shows it well. My next prototype will/would look much more like this one, I'm sure.
Slumgum 01:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Another alternative I've been playing around with a little: User:Johan Elisson/sandbox5. – Elisson • Talk 20:32, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I realise that that example is a worst–case scenario, but wow it's hard to follow! There's so much information and the lack of cell borders makes it all a bit hard to understand. But between your ideas and Slumgum's, it looks like the end result will be pretty useful. ⁂veila# 07:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Would it be possible to whip up a pair of tiny graphics to use for substitutions in place of a + and - sign? I'm thinking a green upward pointing arrow (triangle) and a red one pointing down? This is pretty common on television or other websites that do match reports. -- JoelCFC25 21:10, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] footballbox template

I thought I'd draw attention to {{footballbox}}, which is now being used for the main World Cup articles. There's also {{penshootoutbox}} for penalty shootouts. See 2006 FIFA World Cup for an example of how they should be used. --StuartBrady (Talk) 22:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Structure of article

Has any consensus been reached yet as to a proposed structure/layout of a Match article? Should we have sections on (for example);

• pre-amble/lead (The 1978 TumTeeTum Cup final took place on the 30th February at Bexhill Community Centre and was contested between... The Match was won for the 300th time in their history by Team A, with Bob Carolgees scoring the winning goal.)
• prior-history/pre-game ("the two teams had met before on the local school field in 1989 playing with jumpers for goalposts, a game in which Mr. Blobby (who played for the other side at the time) scored 83 goals with his left knee. In the lead up to the game he was vilified by fans of his former club who all dressed up as Noel Edmonds and ceremoniously gunged effigies of him", "Team B had already won the Ritz cracker Cup and the Choccy Digestive League and were hoping to be the first club to win the Biscuit Triple Nutcrunch by adding the HobNob Shield", "following Team A's point deduction for letting Noddy play with shoelaces untied.." etc etc)
• the notable events of the game (if known - "Andy Johnson once again showed his prowess at acting like he's been hit by a Sniper sitting in the floodlights as soon as his aura neared the penalty area", "two Teddy bears and a Cabbage Patch Doll scored for Team A whilst Team B's Robbie Savage was sent off for kicking the stuffing out of midfielder Paddington Bear and then claiming he'd dived")
• post-game information (news reports, "video replays showed they were robbed", "the team then fell into a deep dark pit never to be seen again in the higher division", "BunchOfNobodies FC received a big stack of cash for whipping the champions and used it to buy a new dartboard/centre-forward/replacement for Beckham", the manager was sacked/tarred/feathered/caught in a post match romp with 2 donkeys and a bucket of carrots, "200 fans were arrested for reading the Daily Mail in a public place and England were banned from playing in Space for 20 years as a result")
• statistics/road to "the match"
• refs/notes
• ext links and templates
• categories (associate with teams, year in football, competition.. all that)

(Oh and maybe a nice big bit on the proposal about NPOV whilst I'm thinking about it)

Your thoughts? - Foxhill 08:05, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Derbies

Is there a particular style for derby matches? There seem to be plenty of derby articles (like El Clásico). I don't know if there is a particular writing style. I am trying to improve Clásico Regiomontano. Please help. Hari Seldon 05:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)