Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dog breeds/Archive 2
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[edit] Wow! he:Category:כלבים
- Halló! I have seen an InterWiki link and hope to find some people interested to come here. Regards Gangleri 20:26, 2004 Oct 30 (UTC)
- List available at he:גזעי כלבים. Gangleri 20:31, 2004 Oct 30 (UTC)
[edit] KEYWORDS
- Dear friends, I submitted bugzilla:846 named: feature request: control of meta name="KEYWORDS" content="...". This is an issue discused in the past. Hope that somebody from the developers would do somthing about it. My question here is about your opinion concerning the maximal number of keywords which should be supported. Regards Gangleri 18:05, 2004 Nov 9 (UTC)
[edit] What is this dog?
I have a photo I quite like of a dog. Is it of any value to Wikipedia? Maybe someone knows what type it is? It was working as a sheepdog, in Poland. Thanks! Stevage 10:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- Well, it was taken in the Tatra mountains, so the Tatra Mountain Sheepdog (image) is a strong candidate. However, there are two other breeds that look quite similar: the kuvasz and the Maremma Sheepdog. The dog in your photo appears to have a beard (or at least some hair on the muzzle), and none of the aforementioned breeds do (or should, at least). However, I'm going to put it in Tatra Mountain Sheepdog, since the geography and appearance both match. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 12:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
- Fascinating, didn't think there would be such a thing. Of the three photos, the Tatra mountain one is probably closest, as they were of fairly slender build - nothing like the really heavy build of the other two. As they were on quite a traditional farm in the Tatras, the identification sounds even more likely. Thanks very much! Stevage 22:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Top importance collaboration list
I am not a member of this project, largely due to my almost total lack of knowledge of the subject. But, as many of you will know, from the notice above if nothing else :), there is another project relating to dogs which has recently been started and is beginning to try to do some assessments related to dog articles, Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs. I would welcome any input from members of your group which breeds are probably of greatest importance for a good understanding of dogs in general, and which non-breed articles qualify as such as well. So far, I have only put in the assessment's top-importance category those articles which have been selected for the Wikipedia CD release. I think, given the large number of breeds out there, that there are without a doubt several more. On that basis, I wonder what the members of your group would think of the idea of selecting a set number, maybe 25, articles which we all basically agree are of top importance in the dog field, and, in effect, turning them into a group of 25 effective collaborations. Once most or all of those articles are brought to a sufficiently high standard of quality, we could choose another set to function as the next group collaborations. Anyway, I would welcome any responses regarding the choice of top-importance articles in general, and to the proposal for creating what would be an acting priority list for possibly both projects. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:18, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mixed-breed dog FAR
Mixed-breed dog is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Joelito (talk) 03:19, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Breed question
We just received this note on the Dogs Project talk page:
- There seem to be a lot of questionable article/edits coming from Bigsteeve, such as Tamaskan Wolfdog and some others. Somebody who's a bit more knowledgeable might want to look into it. Fightindaman 00:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I personally think this is probably more in your field than it is in mine. Please make any comments or changes as necessary. Thank you. Thank you very much. Badbilltucker 00:58, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Guanmao
I made a page for the Guanmao breed of dog. I don't normally work on wikipedia dog pages so it probably needs work. Maybe the dog already has a page of some other name. I made it because it was mentioned in the NYTimes. Just thought you guys should know. - Peregrinefisher 18:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wildlife Barnstar
There is currently a barnstar proposal at Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals/New Proposals#Wildlife Barnstar for a barnstar which would be available for use for this project. Please feel free to visit the page and make any comments you see fit. Badbilltucker 15:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Dogs Project Top importance articles
At Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs/Top-importance articles we are beginning to discuss which articles are of the highest importance to the project. Clearly, the most important articles are ones which should probably be the focus of a good deal of attention by our members. Given that your project is generally much better informed about the relative significance of breeds than some of our members might be, we would welcome any input any of you might choose to give as well. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 18:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Tamaskan dog AfD
The article Tamaskan dog is currently being considered for deletion here. We would welcome any input from the members of this project regarding the proposed deletion. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 15:28, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The question of external Links
Consolidating Conversation Here:
[edit] From User_talk:THe_dog_trainer
Hi, welcome and thanks for editing Wikipedia. I'm sorry to say, I reverted your dog training external links from various dog breed article article. The sort of external link provided is not apropriate for wikipedia, since wikipedia is not a link farm, a method of link exchange to generate higher google search results. or a vehicle for promotion of products websites. You can read the article on External links for a list of what is apropriate to put in the external links section of an article. Simply having useful information alone doesn't make a site merit an external link.
The text added in individual training sections isn't specific to to the individual breeds of dog in question, so I removed those as well. That is useful information, it's just not the right place for it.
I hope that this does not discourage you from contributing.
You could consider looking at the Dog training article, and maybe putting some of your information there.
You may wish to review the welcome page, tutorial, and stylebook, as well as the avoiding common mistakes and Wikipedia is not pages. The Wikipedia directory is also quite useful. In addition, you might want to add yourself to the new user log;
By the way, an important tip: To sign comments on talk pages, simply type four tildes, like this: ~~~~. This automatically adds your name and the time after your comments.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page.
- Trysha (talk) 23:07, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
- I just wanted to add a note that your dog-training tips indeed look useful and I hope you do investigate starting at Category:Dogs and go through the category tree to find articles where your pages are appropriate (as in the dog whistle article, which I just put back). If we linked to every possible dog-related web site on every dog-related article here, there'd be thousands of links in every article and it would be hard to find the ones that were really specifically related to the topic of the article. You'll get the hang of it, I'm sure. Also continuing discussion on User talk:Trysha. Elf | Talk 18:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] From User_talk:Trysha
Hello Trysha and thank you for your reply. Although I am a bit disappointed about the fact that you removed my links, I will do my best to contribute to the dog related article on Wikipedia while expanding my website. I went through teh links you provided and I have read the Wiki guidelines, so I am sure my future contributions will be better suited for this ingenious site.
I plan to develop Expert-dog-training.com into the first website that offers specific, breed oriented dog training methods. This is why I thought some links toward my website would prove useful for the visitors of Wikipedia. Wikipedia offers some nice breed information, while the links toward my website would also allow a person interested, let's say, in Bandog training to get some specific techniques that are focused on this dog breed. For Bandog, for example, the link would be http://www.expert-dog-training.com/Bandog-training.php
There is one other reason why I wish to help Wikipedia grow - a few relevant links would get interested visitors to my site. I will soon post a request on the website asking people who have dogs to contribute, if they wish, with their own dog training techniques. I will also offer visitors the chance to send me photos of their dog, which I will post in the related dog training article. Speaking of that, I read your Wiki profile and noticed that you have a Basset Hound - the funny thing is that the article for this dog breed specific training was on my work schedule for Monday. If you wish, I would be more than happy to use a photo of your dog for the dog training article on Bassets. I would also welcome any tips or tricks related to the training you used for your dog.
I hope we will keep in touch and, from now on, I will check with you first before posting any text or links.
Warm regards,
Michael
THe dog trainer 09:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
- Just popping in here. I think that links to this site in related articles are appropriate, such as the dog whistle article, where I replaced the link. The site is not blatantly commercial; in fact, I don't even really see anything commercial on this site. IMHO, these pages do provide useful info related to certain articles and can remain there. I can't find where the earlier discussions about these links are, so I'm just barging in here. :-) I'm not sure about the breed-specific training articles; most trainers I know do believe that there are some things that you must consider for each breed (or type of breed) to be an effective trainer. But, again, they don't look commercial to me, so couldn't the breed-specific links be appropriate, too? If you'll direct me to where you've already said something about this, that'd be great so I don't ask you to repeat it. Elf | Talk 18:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Hello again. Elf, thank you for your remarks. My website is new and small, for now, but I plan to allow it to grow in time and become one of the best breed specific and general dog training resource on the web. It will take a while :)) I hope my stay here on Wikipedia will be beneficial both for this extremely engagin site and for my website. I understand that the spacve reserved for "external links" can't be monopolized and I don't intend to do that. However, from what I know, specific dog training is a niche and there is a lot of interest in it (or at least that's the vibe I got from dog related forums where I did a little reasearch on the potential interest there would be in such a website). Once my site grows a little bigger I plan to contribute by writing articles for Wikipedia on related topics - for example, an article on training old dogs, which I belive doesn't exist.
In any case, I will keep in touch and I appreciate your support adn your patience, as I am still getting the hang of being active on Wikipedia.
Best wishes to you and your dogs! :)
Michael THe dog trainer 21:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] From User_talk:Elf
One thing, I cannot say that I'd agree with the decision of letting this "dog trainer experts" web site stay as an external link anywhere. The most I'd suggest would be one link at Dog training and that bothers me a bit.
I mean, his stated purpose is to use wikipedia to make his site more popular. (and to improve wikipedia after more people have sent information to his site??).
That's against the External links guidelines - it doesn't' have to be commercial to not be allowed. I don't see anything especially new or novel on his site (yet) to make it acceptable under "what should be linked to number 5" - and it's explicitly disallowed under "what should not be linked to" number 2 (self promotion). I've looked over a few of these articles and the dog whistle article is one of the few that mentions anything different than what can be inferred from information here. It also goes against wikipedia is not a link farm.
I don't mean to condemn him - he's being a nice guy and is trying to play within the rules - unlike others who have tried this in the past (the most memorable one was the woman who copied a dog training book from gutenberg removed all citiations, copyright, and references to the author, and then tried to link it everywhere here).
I think that I'd be really upset if we had a link to his site from every single dog article (as he seems to want to do [1] [2] [3] [4], etc..). One site doesn't merit that amount of linking.
I'll say that he does have a good idea to make a popular web site, So, by linking to his site (which is soliciting dog pictures and training info) to wikipedia, he's linking to a demographic that is more likely to provide him with information to make his site grow. And he's found a topic that people often have questions about - I've seen it time and time again at our dog training club, people come in having trouble training their dog and they think that they need some breed specific book or method so that they can train the dog when the real problem is that they simply haven't been consistent with training or simply don't understand how to train a dog at all.
I'd vote unlink them all, and once his site is done - if it becomes regarded as reputable dog training site after a while, then he should come back and consider contributing things from his site and referencing his site as a source. Right now, all we know about the info is that people emailed it to him. Is it verifiable? Besides a site shouldn't need links from wikipedia in order to make it popular.
- Trysha (talk) 19:13, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] From User_talk:THe_dog_trainer
- OK, after thinking it over overnight and reading Trysha's thoughts on the subject and Wikipedia's linking policy, I am coming to agree that a link from one or two relevant articles, such as one on dog training and possibly a couple of others, would be most appropriate to this site. Trysha, perhaps we could accrue all the comments on this into one central location (dog project?) so that we could all comment there instead of in myriad Edit Summaries and talk pages and user discussions? Then we could point people there who want to express opinions one way or the other. Elf | Talk 20:51, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Continued Discussion
So, i've consolidated this discussion here for others to input.
I think i've summed up my thoughts in the previous though, while THe dog trainer's site might become the best site on the internet for training dogs. I don't think it's wikipedia's place to promote the site.
At most, i think we could compromise and allow a single link at Dog training, i'm finding it hard to justify much more than that, I have a script that generates a list of all the external links from all the dog project pages. I use this to check for "hidden spam" that has been reverted in the past.
Using this no individual web site has more than 4 links throughout the entire dog project with very few exceptions - the sites that do have more than 4 links those are large and universally considered authoritative. (akc.org, uckdogs.com, etc...)
(actually, looking through this list, I think that i should do some housecleaning)
These are the by number of links, in order:
4 members.aol.com 4 news.bbc.co.uk 4 www.canismajor.com 4 www.dogpatch.org 4 www.moloss.com 5 dmoz.org 5 news.nationalgeographic.com 5 www.basenji.org 5 www.expert-dog-training.com 5 www.iditarod.com 6 www.heartwormsociety.org 7 www.bulldoginformation.com 8 www.geocities.com 9 clubs.akc.org 16 www.ckc.ca 37 www.fci.be 63 www.canadasguidetodogs.com 72 www.dogdomain.com 99 www.google.com 165 www.nzkc.org.nz 166 www.ukcdogs.com 168 www.ankc.aust.com 180 www.the-kennel-club.org.uk 197 www.akc.org
All the high number sites are major kennel clubs and list breed standards for the dogs, as well as competition rules, etc... The dogdomain.com and google.com sites host FCI standards, although dogdomain.com is kind of an annoying ad-laden site. The bulldoginformation.com, like moloss.com, gives useful info, but most of it seems to be a duplicate of what's in the various bulldog articles and the site is trying to get you to buy books. heartwormsociety.org - i guess it's reputable and all those links are in one article at the very end, it's deep linking into specific sections of the site - maybe that's too much, a general link to the site would be fine, it's an easy to navigate site. The geocities sites are to specific user pages, i'm not sure that those should stay, given the amount of flux geocities has. dmoz.org - web directory.
Westminster kennel club only has two links.
There are a total of 728 external sites that pages in the dog project links to.
- Trysha (talk) 21:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Expert dog training
Hello Elf, Trysha and anyone reading this post.
After being a while on Wikipedia I started to get a sense what a major online force this is. Of course, the external links to my dog breed training pages did bring traffic. However, I do not feel like I was "stealing" Wikipedia's visitors. On the contrary, I was hoping you would see the links as exactly what links are designed to be on the Internet - doors to related information that site A's visitor might want to look at on site B.
ON the other hand, I do not see a flawless logic behind Trysha's "4 link" policy. I believe that limits the access visitors on Wikipedia have to other relevant info not p[resent on the site. Take Daschunds for example - plenty of info on the breed, but almost nothing about training. My link would have provided exactly the "informational bonus" if you will, the normal step after learning about the breed is how to train it, isn't it?
The only thing that is slightly upsetting is that I put in a lot of time to write the breed specific training articles, and the "your links are not worth inclusion" response is a bit discouraging. Even though English is not my first language I did my best to make each individual article sound like it was written by a native English speaking person. And I also believe the methods mentioned in the articles are at least 50% unique, something you can hardly say about web content today.
One last question - I contributed to the Mioritic dog page - would a link under "references" also be considered too much? I'm also asking because there are several dog article stubs I was planning to contribute to.
Thanks and may you all have a Happy New Year!
THe Dog Trainer
09:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The Dog Scene
Please beware edits by 85.92.183.119. It appears to me that they are working through the alphabet adding an entry to every dog breed page under External Links to www.thedogscene.co.uk. Personally, I do not find this necessary or useful and have reverted their change on the Keeshond page. Keesiewonder 14:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Stablepedia
Beginning cross-post.
- See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team#Stablepedia. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 03:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.
[edit] Labrador Retriever
This page has recently been revised to emphatically state that silver Labs are in fact pure labs, directly contradicting the prior text. I am in no way sufficiently well informed on the subject to weigh on, however, any expert in Labradors who could clearly indicate whether the silver Lab is or is not recognized as a pure Lab would be more than welcome to do so. Badbilltucker 16:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
- I've tidyed up tha section, which was heavily biased towards silvers. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 17:11, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Proposed Veterinary medicine project
There is now a proposed project at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Veterinary Medicine to deal with matters of veterinary medicine, a subject which currently has disproportionately low content in wikipedia. Any wikipedia editors who have an interest in working on content related to the subject are encouraged to indicate as much there. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Olde English Bulldogge AfD
There's an article for deletion discussion regarding the Olde English Bulldogge article. The primary claim is that the breed is not notable, as the article's authors have not found any outside references to the breed. Feel free to weigh in to the discussion, particularly if you know of articles (which are more than ads or trivial mentions) which talk about the breed. Argyriou (talk) 20:37, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Please Help a Dog Project Member with This
I have had a headache all day, and, am afraid I have made it worse by doing some due diligence. Please see a list I have made on my talk page. For more background information, you may wish to see this and that. You will also easily find my participation in the deletion review mentioned for Winston Olde English Bulldogge. I'm not sure what if anything to do next, and would appreciate hearing other active dog project user's input. Kind Regards, Keesiewonder 01:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Alaskan Malamute Rewrite
I just wanted to call attention to my plan to rewrite the Malamute page to be sure I get all the advice I can get. See here. Thanks! ≈Krasniyt/c 22:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Might be nice to help out a fellow member, here. Please.
I just posted the following in the AfD for the Wilkinson Bulldog. I would really appreciate feeling like I am part of a project here, and not just some doggie person. There are accusations and generalizations that are being spread left and right ... Please take a look.
My most recent post copied from the AfD discussion: I am a member of the dog projects on WP, but am not the originator of them. Headphonos (and Cowbonsai), I have not ever said anything anywhere resembling this: "if it doesn't belong to a major kennel or the FCI, it shouldn't be in Wikipedia." I did suggest that Headphonos, and now anyone who is reading this, that if you have concerns about the dog projects, you should contact the projects directly. The response I received from Headphonos on this was that s/he was not interested in all the dog breeds, just certain ones ... and, I guess, with that reasoning, has chosen to not contact the dog projects. If you need me to provide links to my dialogs with Headphonos, I will. I do not feel that the dog projects are being portrayed accurately in this AfD. And, if there are concerns, if you do not raise them with the users who may be able to help, they cannot be addressed. Keesiewonder 23:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] American Rare Breed Association up for deletion
The article on the American Rare Breed Association is currently being considered for deletion. If you would care to comment on this proposal, please go to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Rare Breed Association. Thank you. Badbilltucker 22:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] May I Join?
I would like to join this. I have two dogs: a Papillon, Lexie who appears on the Papillon page as the one with perthes, and Truman, a (democratic) Golden retreiver. Also, I may try to make a Userbox that adds membaers to a category. Geohevy 01:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- Please do. This WikiProject always welcomes new members. For this WikiProject (as with all the ones I've ever seen) you don't even have to ask. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 01:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Mirror site infringing on Wikiepdia articles about breeds of dogs
The site http://www.about-puppies.com is mirroring articles from Wikipedia about breeds of dogs without any acknowledgement of Wikipedia or the GFDL. See Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks/Abc#All About-puppies.com for more information. I have not contacted the site about the infringement as any complaints should come from contributors to one or more of the articles. If any editor who has contributed to any of the articles about breeds of dogs in Wikipedia wants to pursue this, please follow the process described in Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks#Non-compliance process. -- Donald Albury 01:17, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Considering an article for AFD
Please see this. Keesiewonder talk 01:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Copied from talk page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Dogs
heading - Extinct Dog Breeds
The Old English Bulldog discussion above brings up and interesting problem. What is an extinct dog breed? Does it require that all members of the "breed" fail to produce offspring? What if the dog is bred for a different purpose as the Fox Terrier was. Is the Old Fox Terrier extinct as there are no longer working registered Fox Terriers as a result of selctive breeding for a larger dog? Or are they just called Jack Russells now? What about claims of extinct breeds from times before there were breed registries? At that time there was no requirement that dogs be of the same "breed" for breeding, you just put together the dogs that you had that did the work. If the dogs that make up the "old english bulldog" were used to make today's pit bull did that dog go extinct or just change? Or just become an unpopular breed name? What defines a breed? appearance? work? Temperment?
When breed registries came to be in the late 1800's there was a strong incentive to create noble and ancient histories for the dog breed to be recognized. These claims were possible because they were unverifiable. Are these sources now to be considered reliable for encyclopedic purposes? Is old and unverifiable better than new and unverifiable when it comes to sources?
I suggest that we need to maintain a skeptical eye when it comes to breeds that went "extinct" before the advent of written pedigree records (largely in the 20th century).--Counsel 17:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Again
Tamaskan Dog is back; please see Talk:Tamaskan Dog. So is this the 3rd time? Keesiewonder talk 10:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
