Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/templates/navboxes

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[edit] Navboxes

As Basique suggested at the WP:CMC talk page, we ought to create some guidelines for the creation and use of character navboxes. Conflict arose in the editing of {{Batman}}, and it might not have happened if we had some guidance in place.

First, I think we have to answer some questions, including:

  1. Why do we need Navboxes? What purpose do they serve?
  2. What sort of information belongs in one?
  3. What should the Navboxes look like? How large can they be?
  4. How should they be organized, particularly with regard to other media?
  5. How/why/when should characters be listed, and when is it better to link to "List of characters" articles?--Chris Griswold 03:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Please add your own questions/sections to this page and share your thoughts below:

[edit] The authority to do anything?

Does WP:CMC really have any particular wuthority to even SET a standard that all others must adhere to? I think that's the first part of this discussion. IF Jimbo Wales deputized the WP:CMC to have more powers than other editors, then I guess we don't really need all this FALSE civility, since WP:CMC will do what they already do. Come in, do what they want, and ignore other editors, then as they leave, link to a page like this and say 'see? we do have the authority, come lavish us with praise for our behavior'. I've said it before, I'm saying it again. I won't back down from bullies. Given your representatives in this situation proudly display infoxoes stating they ARE bullies, I see no reason to continue paying any attention to WP:Comics demands and hostile actions. In the future, I will simply summarily revert any such attack edits.ThuranX 13:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

What are "infoxoes" and who uses them to proudly proclaim they're bullies? I believe the standards we're trying to set with this discussion are for WP:CMC navboxes alone (as you can see from the title of the project page). The idea is to create standards for regularity and consistency, which can help prevent editors from seeing consensus-driven edits to navboxes as attacks. I think we'd all appreciate your input into this discussion, citing policies, guidelines, and sensible, rational arguments for how you wish these tools to look, instead of your denouncing of our efforts toward consensus. Remember, Wikipedia is not a democracy, but is rather driven by discussion. --Newt ΨΦ 17:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
ThuranX does bring up a valid point in that while many of these navboxes are based on comic book characters, (and thus we feel, as WP:CMC editors, they fall under our domain) they could have creators from the TV or Film wikiprojects among others and we should work together with those editors to create a consensus as well before changing bits that they may see as necessary or informative. --Newt ΨΦ 20:38, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Hopefully we can prevent cases of navbox overload such as in the case of Spider-Man's page. --Basique 03:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The purpose of Navboxes

  • The navboxes has the same purpose as Categories ?--Brown Shoes22 14:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Similar purpose. The categories link together any related subject on a separate page, however a navbox actually appears in the article, and can give context to entries in it.--Toffile 15:00, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • Personally, never really having thought about it, my first intuition about navboxes is that your {{X-Men members}} or {{Avengers members}} is of little more use than a category or list, and can look a bit gaudy. However your {{Batman}} and {{Superman}} give context to what articles could be in a single category but would look rather haphazard and nonsensical. That said, the latter are also quite large and could use the hide function of the former. --Newt ΨΦ 18:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I think templates like {{X-Men members}} have a purpose, but it shouldn't go overboard. Large superhero/supervillain teams can benefit from these kind of templates (so no navboxes for two appearances, five member teams), because it's just a much easier navigation tool, and that's ultimately the purpose of the navbox: navigation. Kusonaga 19:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Navboxes are panels designed to help a reader find related articles of interest quickly and easily. They should be small, pleasing to the eye, concise, and well-organized so that it's not a hassle for a reader to search through it to find what they want. A reader should be able to casually browse the listings. I think that {{LostNav}} and {{X-Men}} are good examples. --Chris Griswold 20:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • I agree, as the members navbox offers no more information nor organization nor context than Category:X-Men members. However, {{X-Men}} offers context, and organizes navigation among X-Men related articles. --Newt ΨΦ

[edit] The information navboxes should contain

[edit] Individual characters

  • Long member listings don't belong; we have articles that take care of that, and navboxes can link to those. Navboxes should be more than a simple list, they should be a collection of information that would not fit into one list but which might all be interesting to a reader of the article into which the navbox template is placed. --Chris Griswold 20:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
    • For instance, I don't think we need {{X-Men members}} and instead should use {{X-Men}}; unfortunately, there is no article that serves the same function: List of X-Men redirects to List of X-Men teams. Maybe if that article served the purpose of simple listing the characters, the SHB on the X-Men article wouldn't be a fourth of the size of the page. --Chris Griswold 20:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
      • I think we should let the category do the heavy lifting and leave the members navbox out of this navigation. How hard is it really to click on the Category:X-Men members link at the bottom of a page and navigate to all the X-Men members? It's roughly the same thing, just an added click, and without the huge box at the bottom. --Newt ΨΦ 20:28, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Navboxes style

For large navboxes, I do think the hide function should be available and the default setting of the box for the aesthetic of the article. Too many or too large navboxes can make an article look bad. --Newt ΨΦ 18:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

You mentioned that {{X-Men members}} had a hide function; I hadn't seen it until then. JQF added that, and it was a great idea. Really, I think all of these should have one. Is it possible to set "hide" as a default?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by ChrisGriswold (talk • contribs) 15:44, 7 August 2006.
There has to be (User:Cyde has a template that hides by default) I was actually thinking of something similar, but I've been trying to track down the exact bit of code that does allow you to hide. Sadly I'm not too good with coding templates, so it's been tricky.--Toffile 19:48, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree, and think that actually all navboxes should be on hide on default. It's better in aesthetics and in organization. Some articles are going to end up with multiple navboxees, and that's usually quite a sore eyesight, so if someone's got the template skills, I say, go for it. Kusonaga 19:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I also like the idea of hide by default. --Basique 03:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

  • Elements should be grouped alphabetically, rather than by importance, which would not only might raise POV debates but also be confusing to a reader unfamiliar with the subject. --Chris Griswold 20:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Specific Navboxes

[edit] {{The Batman}}

Intersting. it's no longer a template, it's now a NAVBOX. Interestingly, I designed a template. however, now that I know the intent of WP Comics is to produce a Batman navbox, I wish you all well. Since that was the purpose of the massive edits to Template:The Batman, I can now revert them, and allow WP:Comics to produce it's own Navbox elsewhere. I wish you all well.ThuranX 04:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The template you created is a navbox, just like {{Superman}}, the one you used as a base. Navboxes help a reader navigate to related subjects. Guy, seriously, calm down. Please take a look at all of the other templates listed in Category:Comic book navbox templates and see that they all do the same thing {{The Batman}} one does. --Chris Griswold 04:44, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
A navbox is a type of template, designed to provide information and links on a topic in a standardized format. I know that you're angry, ThuranX, but there's no need to behave this way. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Membership navboxes

These need to go. Character articles already have prominent links to the groups they belong to; those team pages either list the entire roster or link to separate page that does. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 06:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

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