Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity

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Christianity Portal WikiProject Christianity is part of the WikiProject Christianity, an attempt to build a comprehensive guide to Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Wikipedia visit the welcome page so as to become familier with the guidelines.

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This article refers to some aspect of Christianity

Foundations The Lord Jesus Christ God the Trinity (Father Son Spirit) Holy Bible · Christian Theology New Covenant · Supersessionism The Apostles · The Church · The Gospel History of Christianity · Timeline

Holy Bible Old Testament · New Testament Decalogue · Sermon on the Mount Birth · Resurrection · Great Commission Inspiration · Books · Canon · Apocrypha Hermeneutics · LXX · English Translation

Christian Theology History of Theology · Apologetics Creation · Fall of Man · Covenant · Law Divine Grace · Salvation · Justification Sanctification · Theosis · Worship Church · Sacraments · Future

History and Traditions Ecumenical Councils · Creeds · Missions Great Schism · Crusades · Reformation Eastern Christianity Eastern Orthodoxy · Oriental Orthodoxy Syriac · Assyrian · Eastern Catholicism Western Christianity Roman Catholicism · Protestantism Thomism · Anabaptism · Lutheranism Anglicanism · Calvinism · Arminianism Baptist · Evangelicalism · Restorationism Liberalism · Fundamentalism · Pentecostal Denominations · Movements · Ecumenism Preaching · Prayer · Music Liturgy · Calendar · Symbols

Important Figures Apostle Paul · Church Fathers Constantine · Athanasius · Augustine Anselm · Aquinas · Palamas · Wycliffe Luther · Calvin · Wesley · Carey Barth · Graham · John Paul II

[edit] Non-neutral endorsement by article

This article shows a bias towards christianity and puts down other religions. This is refered to as a "religion" rather than "mythology" while the Greek religion, among several others, is referred to as "mythology." Why is this done? Christianity and the judeo-christian god are not any more probable than the Greek religion and Zeus, nor any of the other countless religions and infinite number of gods out there. This article isn't neutra. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Urlacher rules (talk • contribs) 20:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

1. This is not an article.
2. Christianity in this day in age is still being used as a way of living for some. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WikiLeon (talk • contribs) 21:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

The Greek religion is still be used in this day and age as a way of living for some. Just a few weeks ago they were honoring Zeus and Hera at a ceremony in Greece at a temple built for him long, long, long ago. Here's the proof: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/01/21/ancient.gods.ap/

What a silly trope. There are no serious thinkers who actively believe in the religions of Ancient Greece and Rome: significant numbers of the world's leading scholars are Christian. NBeale 04:51, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Not just silly, but badly uninformed. Greek mythology has long been a subject of study in Western society, as have Roman and Egyptian mythology. It is called myth because the source material meets the literary and scientific standards for mythology and folklore. In other words, the plaintiff is barking up the wrong tree. JCSeer 04:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

True, but several other faiths, including Wicca, worship the gods of old Greece and Rome, Diana (mythology) in particular. And, in response to the originator, every other WikiProject page is basically non-neutral too, as only people interested in a subject will join the related Project. That's why this is in Wikipedia: space, not mainspace. That is to be expected. What matters primarily is the lack of POV of the content in mainspace, secondarily that of a other-space page like this. John Carter 16:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Erwin Raphael McManus

There seems to be some bizarre edit warring going on on this article, which I've been mostly unsuccessful at putting an end to, so some more eyes would be nice. It appears to be between people who support and oppose the person, who is a pastor at some church in Los Angeles. However, both sides are trying to insert hugely non-neutral, unsourced information into the article, and keep reverting my attempts to at least place NPOV and unreferenced tags at the top. --Delirium 01:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for input (new cat?)

There is no Category specific to any type of theology. I am assuming most Christian theology books are placed under Christian studies books, whihc is a sub-cat of Religious studies books. However, it appears to me (not an expert on theology) that is not always appropriate. Please let me know if I am wrong. And if my thought is correct, that it is often different, or not that good a fit, would it be beneficial to Wikipedia to have a new category? I am thinking Christian theology books, as a sub-cat of Religious studies books, at the same level as Christian studies books. Again, not an expert here hence my request for input. Thanks in advance! KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:01, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Theology clearly distinct from "Christian studies" - what theology shd be sub-cat of I leave to more expert Wikipedians than I. NBeale 04:53, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Anybody home? Hello? Asking for input (again) here. KillerChihuahua^?!? 16:19, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a rather difficult question to answer, unfortunately. Generally, theology is seen as a subsection of philosophy, as the category is here. Also, there is no clear line of demarkation between general religious writings and theological writings. Thérèse de Lisieux's works are among those which are rather hard to define in this regard. Personally, because the definition of "theology" is rather hard to pin down, I would personally probably favor keeping the books in the larger "studies" categories, as they are less likely to create prolonged disagreements there. John Carter 16:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mainstream Christianity

Any assistance in expanding the mainstream Christianity article would be greatly appreciated. Vassyana 14:03, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to have to tell you this but I tagged it for deletion as Unencyclopedic. Steve Dufour 15:12, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it should stay (112,000 GHits!) but needs work NBeale 17:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it is a nice article, just not for WP. Please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Thanks. Steve Dufour 04:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I pasted the entire text of the article, one paragraph, into Christianity. Steve Dufour 16:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lazarus and Dives RFC

An RFC has been filed to determine whether or not the position of the Jesus Seminar should be included in Lazarus and Dives. Your comments would be most welcome. --Joopercoopers 23:03, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll check it out. Steve Dufour 14:07, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Witchcraft section in Martin Luther

Someone has recently a section on Martin Luther and witchcraft to the above page. The content was later removed by another editor, and reinserted by the content's creator. The disagreement seems to be about whether the content is "extraneous" to the article. There is now a discussion on the article's talk page regarding the subject, Any comments regarding the inclusion of this material in this article, and how much article space to give it, would be more than welcome. John Carter 18:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of ex-Christians

The premise of this article seems to be a little weak. Pretty much anyone who grew up in a Christian environment and later joined some other religion or became an outspoken atheist or humanist gets put on the list. Most of them have no evidence of being personally Christian at any time in their lives. It amounts to a mixed group: anyone from Karl Marx to Tom Cruise to George Harrison. I have expressed some objections on the talk page and have removed a few names. Steve Dufour 01:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I have finished with the article. I still have problems with the whole concept which I expressed on the talk page. Steve Dufour 21:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Presuppositional apologetics FAR

Presuppositional apologetics has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] possibly duplicative article

Commentaries on the Bible: Christian. Don't know what to do with that one so I'm passing it on here. — coelacan — 13:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding the article importance to the project template

If I knew how to do this in the wikisource, I would simply go ahead and try it, but since I don't... I'm thinking it would be a nice idea to add the article's importance rating to the project template, in addition to the quality rating--like they have done with the WikiProject Catholicism template. Perhaps it might encourage more articles to have their importance perameter filled out. Anyone with better knowledge of how to do this want to try? Emerymat 05:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The banner already has the importance parameter included; it just isn't displayed in the banner itself. Check the Category:Top-importance Christianity articles for evidence of this. The question as I see it is who would determine the importance of the articles? Some projects like Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels do it by consensus. My main project Wikipedia:WikiProject Saints, has one of our more generally informed members doing most of it. Which method would be tried here? John Carter 14:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps I should have been more clear. I knew that there was already the importance attribute, but I think it should be displayed (again, like the Catholicism and Anglican projects). The question of who determines is a good one, and not one I have an answer to. I would think that it would be like anything else on Wikipedia--someone makes an edit / assessment, and if it's disagreed with, then someone else changes it. It might be nice if someone who is "more knowledgable" went through and did a bunch of importance assessing (which I have just megerly begun myself), but perhaps not essential. I just think that currently with the importance not in the display, the vast majority of the articles in the project currently are unassessed as to their importance. It seems like it would be better to have some disagreements over the importance assessment, rather than to have so many articles with unknown importance. (Also, the so-called "worklist" page of the project sorts the articles within each quality assessment by the importance rank. Thus we would be aided in making sure that articles that are currently poor quality but of high importance are improved first.) Emerymat 01:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] For Your Information

There is currently a discussion about whether or not to rename/move Paul of Tarsus. -- Pastordavid 01:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article in sore need of more watchers

The article De Viris Illustribus (Jerome) was created by a user who likes to include fairly questionable content, like a reference to "Peter, considered to be the first divine person by church of Rome." Moreover, the user in question believes that the New Testament was written by Petrarch in the 14th century AD, and that various books contain "very special meanings" in need of being decoded. (See further the deletion discussion for 62 of his articles that were deleted this morning.) I am burning out trying to single-handedly steer De Viris Illustribus (Jerome) towards being a sound and encyclopedic article, and I hope someone else can start watching the page. I have no agenda and would welcome editors with very different views from mine; the page just needs honest and experienced participants, period. (It might also be worthwhile to explore Doug Coldwell's other contributions.) Wareh 17:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
copied from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism by John Carter 18:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New WikiProject

A new project, WikiProject Lutheranism, has been formed to handle articles and information relating to Lutheranism. All interested editors are invited to sign up. -- Pastordavid 22:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Passion Conferences

I started a page for Passion Conferences. I've put some links in the talk page but the article needs a lot of help.Akubhai 15:07, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Holy Land and Holy Land (Biblical)

Please comment here on a proposed merger or restructuring of these two articles. They currently contain a large amount of common content. Best, --Shirahadasha 21:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review for Jerusalem

Some input from members of WikiProject Christianity is requested in regards to a peer review for the Jerusalem article:

[edit] Jerusalem

I have been working on this article for the past three months and I'm hoping to put this up for featured article status sometime in the near future. Essentially, I'm looking for a critique of the article and suggestions for things that might need to be rectified prior to submitting it for a featured article candidacy.

• I was a bit worried about the length of the article, but I personally feel it is okay since much of the kilobyte-age comes from the large number of sources rather than from over-the-top text. However, if you disagree, please do offer up suggestions for shortening the article.
• Because I know the Jerusalem article is (somewhat) controversial, I want to make sure any issues with neutrality (especially in regards to the capital issue) are squared away before making a final submittal. I believe I did a good job, but perhaps something is subtly biased that I did not notice.
• A good look at the prose would be great. I just finished writing the last section, so I haven't gotten the chance to do a thorough proofread; I'll proceed to do that this week while this peer review takes place, but by all means chip in.
• I want to ensure the facts are correct. I have never been to Jerusalem, so my writing comes exclusively from extensive research. If something looks factually incorrect, please fix it or make a note of it (although please use caution if the change will conflict with a source). If a source was misinterpreted, please please fix it or make a note of it.
• I want to ensure foreign-language words are used and/or translated properly, since I'm not knowledgeable in Hebrew or Arabic.
• I'm not sure what to say about local, city, or municipal government in Jerusalem. I may have to keep it short, but if anyone can think of any ideas, that would be great.

You are, of course, welcome to assist in other areas as well. Thanks in advance for any help you may provide. -- tariqabjotu 16:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Any chance of more citations from the Holy Scriptures? WikiNew 16:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Where do you believe additional citations from religious texts would be useful? -- tariqabjotu 17:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

• Looks great overall; I have a few POV issues, but I'm sure these are just oversights, and I certainly do not make any accusations as to your opinions or anything like that; we must work together to make these sorts of things as objective as possible, and it's a tough business. I just have a few minor stylistic questions. Rather than go in and mess with your wording myself, I thought I should let you work on your own project.
  1. "and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre among different sects of Christians." -- different from what? would this be better as "some sects" or "various sects"?
  2. "while majority Palestinian areas dominate the north, east and south of the Old City" I think I get what you mean - "areas where there is a Palestinian majority" rather than "the majority of areas which are Palestinian/ majority of Palestinian areas" - but this is a bit ambiguous as it reads now.
  3. The section on The Temple Periods ends by saying that for over 18 centuries Jerusalem was not the capital of any independent state; I like this. It's accurate, it's dramatic, and it's an interesting historical fact. But I think that as this could be taken as a political (i.e. POV biased) statement, it should perhaps be balanced by a brief description of the fact that no independent state called Palestine has ever existed and/or of the Greco-Roman origins of the word.
  4. The last few sentences of the State of Israel section in the history also seems to be a bit tilted. Perhaps a slight expansion would be pertinent on the problems with the city being split, and the causes of the Six-Day War. As it stands right now, I feel it reads as though Israel's capture of East Jerusalem was entirely selfish and vicious, and that its rule/sovereignty over the united city is somehow unfair or unjust.
  5. A more explicit mention of the Three Hills (Mount of Olives, Mount Zion, and Temple Mount) and Three Valleys might be good in the geography section.
  6. In the Capital section, "only two members of the United Nations — Costa Rica and El Salvador — have their embassies located within the city limits of Jerusalem...and several consulates within the city itself." Are these consulates of Costa Rica and Ecuador, or consulates of other nations? Seems unclear from the wording.

Thanks for your hard work. I truly do apologize for introducing POV issues into this, but I think a few minor changes here and there would be good to ensure the objectivity of the article's message. LordAmeth 19:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

• I'll get back to you on a couple of these points, but it may be best for you to address a few yourself because I don't see the ambiguity with some of them, particularly with your second point. I added the number of consulates in regards to your second point, but I didn't specifically mention that those consulates did not include Costa Rica and El Salvador (since it wouldn't make sense for a country to have an embassy and a consulate in the same city). I fixed the first point, but take issue with doing something about the third point (because mentioning Palestine rather superfluously might sound like a subtle desire for a nation-state by the name of Palestine). -- tariqabjotu 15:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've eliminated the ambiguity I had perceived in the "majority areas" phrase. As for the thing about Jerusalem not being the capital for 18 centuries, all I'm saying is that inclusion of this fact could be interpreted as an argument against the legitimacy of Jewish/Israeli claims on it as their capital. By explaining that there has never been an independent state called Palestine, you discount their claims on it as well, balancing the POV. That's my thought. LordAmeth 12:40, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I would shorten the religious significance section. The sub pages should be sufficient for most of what is there. That would help with the length issue. I might also link to category: neighborhoods of Jerusalem somewhere. --יהושועEric 03:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to disagree on the point regarding shortening the Religious Significance section. In comparison to the five articles on the religious significance of Jerusalem, the section is quite short, only touching upon the most basic facts about the significance of the city in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I'm thinking that perhaps the History section could be cut down, but Jerusalem does indeed have a very long history; the summary in the Jerusalem article is much shorter than the full piece at History of Jerusalem. However, I encourage you to make whatever changes you feel are necessary to cut down on the length. At some later date, I'll calculate how much readable prose is in the article (so we can compare the article with WP:LENGTH), but I'm rather confident there won't be a tremendous issues since there are a heck of a lot of sources that do not count toward the readable prose total. For comparison, this is 63kB of prose. As long as this article is less than 50-55kB of prose (WP:LENGTH actually says less than 60kB), any objection based on length alone would not be warranted. -- tariqabjotu 15:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I determined that the article in its current state is 34 kB of readable prose, well within the limits of WP:LENGTH. See User:Tariqabjotu/Jerusalem. -- tariqabjotu 04:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please see the deletion discussion for List of people who went to heaven alive

This article's name isn't the best (replacement suggestions are welcome), but the concept of ascension into heaven is important in a number of religions, none more so than Christianity, so I'm trying to improve the article and save it from deletion. In the deletion discussion, some editors seem to be calling the belief in ascension without death a "joke". It seems to me that the best response to that is to improve the article and show the concept is not treated as a joke by those who take religious questions seriously. Please take a look at the article and the deletion discussion and consider contributing to both.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people who went to heaven alive

Noroton 19:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another new WikiProject

Wikipedia:WikiProject Calvinism has been created too :).

-- TimNelson 13:43, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jerusalem on WP:FAC

Jerusalem is currently undergoing a featured article candidacy. The FAC page is transcluded below (feel free to remove it from this page if the FAC gets too long):

[edit] Jerusalem

Peer review

The Jerusalem article is comprehensive and very well-referenced, fulfilling all of the featured article criteria. Although there has been some controversy in the past about the idea of Jerusalem being the capital of Israel, the article has remained relatively quiet and stable, with objections being very rare. The article presents the city of Jerusalem in a neutral light with "brilliant" prose. The article does not use any fair-use images and it does not appear to violate any standards set forth by WikiProjects and Wikipedia in general. Before anyone gawks at the length shown when hitting the edit this page link, I would like to note that there are only about thirty-four kilobytes of readable prose; that is well within the "rule of thumb" established by Wikipedia:Article size. -- tariqabjotu 04:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment. The reference for it being the largest city seems very strange indeed. Don't they have a census?--Pharos 08:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes, I know; I agree there are too many sources for that one fact (there is a census) and for the fact regarding Jerusalem being a Jewish center since the 10th century BCE. Take a look at #Sources (January 2007) from the talk page. -- tariqabjotu 11:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I have shortened the references in question accordingly. -- tariqabjotu 13:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I've re-lengthened them. Unfortunately, this claim was the subject of a lengthy debate and edit war that lasted almost two months, until sufficient high-quality sources were provided so that it was indisputable. Sadly, certain topics are going to be disputed ad nauseam until they are proven to death, and the coffin nailed and chained shut with a giant padlock. This happens to be one of them. Jayjg ^(talk) 17:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
      • A response to Jayjg has been provided on the talk page of the article. -- tariqabjotu 20:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
• Support, after tariqabjotu's extensive efforts (disclosure - I've been a very minor contributer to the article, mainly on the talk page). okedem 08:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
• Comment Interesting article on a great city. Some suggestions: "Sports" subsection should be pruned. Which clubs won in which year is not necessary in this article (years are important in individual club articles). You can simply delete the subsection, and include the names of popular sports and prominent clubs in a paragraph at the end of "Culture" (before the subsection "Religious subsection"). The short paragraph on "Israel Festival" may be merged with the upper paragraph, and a separate short paragraph on sports may be created.

It would be nice if some crime statistics are added in the "Demographics" section. The one-sentence paragraph on the use of "Jerusalem stone", why is that added in "climate"? Any impact of climate on the use of the stone?

I have a feeling that the article is over-wikilinked. Have had some talks with User:Tariqabjotu in this regard. Comments from other users would help in this matter. Regards.--Dwaipayan (talk) 07:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the amount of links is fine (not over-linked). I don't think a reader should have to go back looking for a link, when he just wants some information about a specific subject (and so doesn't read the whole thing in one sitting). okedem 08:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the championship years from the Sports section, although I was a bit apprehensive about removing the sub-section altogether; it seems to go against the article structure established at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities. I'll find some information on crime in Jerusalem a bit later (unless someone else gets to it first) and add crime as a sub-section under demographics. -- tariqabjotu 14:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• Comment I do not think starting the article with "Jerusalem is Israel's capital" is the most npov way to handle the dispute over Jerusalems' status. As a suggestion, I point you to Encarta's intro for Jerusalem which I think handles it very well:

Jerusalem (Hebrew Yerushalayim; Arabic Al Quds), city lying at the intersection of Israel and the West Bank, located between the Mediterranean Sea and the Dead Sea, about 50 km (about 30 mi) southeast of the Israeli city of Tel Aviv-Yafo. Jerusalem is composed of two distinct sections: West Jerusalem and East Jerusalem. West Jerusalem, which is inhabited almost entirely by Jews, has been part of Israel since Israel was established in 1948. East Jerusalem, which has a large Palestinian Arab population and recently constructed Jewish areas, was held by Jordan between 1949 and the Six-Day War of 1967. During the war, East Jerusalem was captured by Israel, which has administered it since. Israel claims that Jerusalem is its capital, but Palestinians dispute the claim and the United Nations has not recognized it as such. Jews, Christians, and Muslims consider Jerusalem a holy city, and it contains sites sacred to all three religions. --A.Garnet 13:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to turn this into another "Capital of Israel" discussion, but concisely - Israel doesn't "claim" Jerusalem is its capital. Jerusalem is, de facto and de jure, its capital. It is the seat of government, parliament, supreme court, president's and PM's quarters. Israel has designated it as capital, and it serves as capital - thus it is capital. International recognition is not a prerequisite for a capital. okedem 14:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe a more than signficant part of the international community does not accept Israel administering East Jeursalem as part of its capital, therefore this is a significant political dispute, enough to warrant us handling the intro with a bit more sophistication (certainly for an FA). I believe there is nothing wrong with a similar intro to the Encarta suggestion I made above. --A.Garnet 14:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

This has been an age-old issue on this article. See Talk:Jerusalem/capital, Talk:Jerusalem#Capital of Israel, Talk:Jerusalem#Capital, "largest city" out of intro, Talk:Jerusalem#RfC, among other places. Take that as you wish. However, let me point you to the definition of capital. On Wikipedia capital and seat of government are two different articles, but they are essentially the same thing (the former article defines capital as the principal city or town associated with a country's government). According to Merriam-Webster, the capital is a city serving as a seat of government. Well, those definitions certainly apply here. The executive, judicial, and legislative branches for Israel are all located within the city of Jerusalem. There is a footnote attached to the statement in the first line. On this topic, I might advocate saying seat of government instead of capital or closing the gap between capital and the mention of the controversy. However, the very act of suggesting this could result in me being shunned from society. As usual. -- tariqabjotu 14:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I think the use of seat of government is a good alternative. What do you mean you will be "shunned from society" for suggesting this? --A.Garnet 14:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Essentially, one would see what boils down to we've discussed this before; now get over it. The problem is that this dispute has been muddied up by accusations that people advocating mentioning capital without qualification are pro-Israel, Jewish Zionists, etc., etc., whereas people against it are trying to make Jerusalem the capital of Palestine or are anti-Semitic, pro-Muslim, etc., etc. There have been times when this mud-slinging has been avoided (especially recently), but it's still a problem. I believe seat of government is the best way to keep the important fact in the intro without having to over-emphasize the controversy. In my opinion, it's neutral, but others see it as dancing around the topic. Note that prior to September 2006, "capital" was not mentioned in the first sentence of the article. Additionally, an RfC from January was inconclusive. -- tariqabjotu 14:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Jesus-related articles needs your help

List of Jesus-related articles has been tagged "This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards" since November 2005. "The oldest cleanup requests are the highest priority, to prevent embarrassing problems from going unfixed for an indefinite length of time." [1]. Anybody care to take a look at this and fix anything that needs fixing? Thanks. -- Writtenonsand 05:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ryan_St._Anne_Scott

Abbot Ryan St. Anne Scott has, in an email to OTRS, issued a statement concerning various statements in this article which he considers untrue and potentially libellous (important per WP:BLP). As the OTRS agents are unable to check his (quite detailed) email, he has given explicit permission to re-post in on a public page, so that experts in BLPs and religion issues can have a closer look at it. His statement is now at Talk:Ryan_St._Anne_Scott/Statement. I'd appreciate any help on this matter, if somebody could check the article versus his statement and maybe also check the source (a printed newspaper article) which is the primary source and to which I do not have access. Thank you. --Mbimmler 19:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] original research? afd?

Please have a look at Talk:The Long Revelation. Is this a real belief? Is it notable? Is it sourcable? Is the article original research? Should it go to AFD? I'd like to get input from this wikiproject. — coelacan — 21:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LORD

I have created {{LORD}}, which results in Lord.

In User:Kevinkor2/LORD, I've given a list of articles that use LORD. May I go through these articles and replace LORD with {{LORD}}?

--Kevinkor2 11:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It does not seem to be an appropriate use of templates. Additionally, it would add to the server load (apparently without necessity). What is the necessity for this change? Why is a template needed for the task? Vassyana 11:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I have started this in response to an edit in Christian views on magic. Fuzzypeg (talk • contribs) changed "LORD" to use smallcaps using the code,

L<span style="font-variant:small-caps;text-transform:lowercase">ORD</span>.

I believe the code in the template is simpler:

{{smallcaps|1=Lord}}

I suggest WikiProject Christianity follow one of three courses of action:

• caps. Make a guideline that the Tetragramaton be rendered as LORD. This is the least amount of work.
• subst. Make a guideline that the Tetragramaton be typed as {{smallcaps|1=Lord}}. This could be achieved using {{subst:LORD}} as a the typing helper.
• transclude. Make a guideline that the Tetragramaton be typed as {{LORD}}. This adds future flexibility. For example, we could change the formatting of LORD, provide a tooltip that explains its meaning, or add a wikilink to Tetragramaton.

--Kevinkor2 12:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

My plan is this:

1. Change LORD to {{LORD}} in a few select articles that are guaranteed to be on watchlists:
   • Genesis
   • Monotheism
   • Messiah
   • List of Jewish prayers and blessings
2. Wait to see if changes are reverted, and what comments I get.
3. If all is OK, change other articles in small batches.

--Kevinkor2 08:00, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox for churches

I'd like to create/have created an infobox for churches. The only one that exists at present (orthodox -- for Eastern Orthodox) is too specific and thus does not suit many other churches (I'm looking in particular at Protestant churches of various denominations and independents).

More fields are probably required, I welcome some commentary?

thanks! :-) Natebailey 23:54, 6 April 2007 (UTC)