Talk:White tea

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Contents 1 White tea and caffeine 2 External links... 3 Health benefits 4 History 5 Fried Tea?? 6 references/citation 7 withered or steamed?

[edit] White tea and caffeine

I can't find a definitive answer on whether white tea has more or less caffeine than green and black tea. The Linus Pauling site insists white tea has more caffeine. Other sources (such as Uncle Lee's Tea Co., who make an organic white tea blend) insist it has only a fraction of the caffeine of black tea. Frustrated, I went so far as to Googlefight the terms "white tea has less caffeine" and "white tea has more caffeine"; FWIW the "less" contestant won 4 to 1. Likewise for "white tea is low in caffeine" and "white tea is high in caffeine". I note that the article doesn't seem to make a claim either way. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 17:24, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Tricky. Not something I know. I would not automatically and without proper documentation trust such as source as Uncle Lee's Tea Co. I think from glancing at the Linus P. inst. report White Tea has much lower caffeine content. This [1] has some articles (Use Babel or Google translate) but I am not sure. An open one this. --Iateasquirrel 17:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I emailed a few companies that carry white tea. Updated with responses: One said White tea has approximately the same amount of caffeine as all other teas (I've heard the "all tea has the same amount of caffeine" thing before, but then why do so many disagree?), one said it has slightly less than green tea, and one said it has about 15 mg per cup (as opposed to 20 for green and 40 for black). Indium 02:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

This was to be expected really. I presume that technically this is a very tricky thing to mention, without some evaluationl. For example take two Oolong teas, something like traditionally processed Shui Xian from Wuyi and pelleted Jade Tieguanyin from Anxi; I am guessing they will have some sizable difference in caffeine. Same probably applies to White tea, like take a low grade Shou Mei tea and Bai Hao Yinzhen tea, there will probably be quite a difference there too. I think the page should reflect this by presenting the results of your informal survey raw and saying that there is always going to be confusion over this. Just my view! --Iateasquirrel 15:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I found an interesting, yet no more official, explanation at a site called "Interesting Thing of the Day" on white tea:

I’ve read some claims that white tea has more caffeine than green or black tea, but in fact it has much less. Well, sort of. The caffeine is present in the leaf when it is harvested, so a given mass of leaves from a particular plant will have a given mass of caffeine—and that’s true regardless of how long the leaves are permitted to oxidize. So, ignoring differences between plants and plantations (which can be significant), any tea leaf will have as much caffeine as any other. The difference is how much of that caffeine makes its way out of the tea leaf and into your cup. Brewed white tea has much less caffeine per cup than brewed green, oolong, or black tea (with increasing levels in that order)—partly because the leaves are larger, partly because they underwent less mechanical processing, and partly because the water for brewing is cooler.

I'm not sure I quite accept that -- the leaves used to make white tea are smaller according to the WP article ("young leaves (new-growth buds)") and the dried white teas I've seen are no different in cut size then black teas. Furthermore, I expect most people will use the same temperature water (i.e. "hot") for white tea as they would for black or green tea.

- Keith D. Tyler ¶ 17:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

To clear this up, from what I have read:

Leaf Size. The white teas of very high quality will be made of only top un-opened buds. Teas of lower quality will have more and more of the leaf added in, generally going down the tea plant stem. In general the leaves are hence smaller than those used for most Oolong teas. However most high quality Red, Yellow and Green teas also use only top buds whilst lower qualities use larger leaf. Hence in product of similar quality the size of the leaf should be similar, there are geographical and genetical variations.

Water temperature. It is claimed that White teas are best prepared with slightly cooler water than other teas, about 80C. Numerous references for this.

Does anyone else think that the WP article should present a balanced view, hence just dump some facts and references and show that there is an ongoing debate and that there are geographical and processing techniques which vary. --Iateasquirrel 01:41, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Virtually every source I've ever seen does in fact say to use cooler water for non-black teas. [2] Indium 10:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Black as in Hong Cha I presume. I am doubtful whether this is the case, certainly for Oolong tea, Red Tea (what is known in the west as Black Tea), Black Tea (as in Guang Xi tea) and raw Pu-Erh should all be prepared at 100C or in reality a little less. A master may vary the temperature very marginally, I presume. I think that only for Yellow tea, Green tea and White tea is lower temprature used, or so most places say. One must also note that traditionally the darker teas raw Pu-erh, Black tea, Oolong and Red Tea are prepared in Zi Sha pottery; whilist the White, Green and Yellow teas are generally prepared in Porcelain (though some like to use Duan Ni clay teapots). This may affect caffeine content in some way.

Also the destruction of tea via tea-bags probably has very different results, the surface area is much greater and the quality of the tea lower. --Iateasquirrel 00:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

- James Moore ¶ 23:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

In fact, this is an interesting question. Caffein serves the plant as an anti-herbivory agent (insect neurotoxin). It is clear that immature leaves are nutrient sinks and more tender than mature leaves. In general one often finds that herbivores seem to prefer the immature leaves of most species. So, on the one hand, one could imagine that the plant would have an interest to produce higher amounts of caffein in immature leaves as a defense (ergo Higher caffein in White tea). On the other hand, the observation that insects prefer immature leaves might indicate that the plants simply have not had the time to accumulate high caffein levels (ergo Lower caffein in White tea). I found this in the peer-reviewed journal J Agric Food Chem (2003, 51(7):1864-73) "the old tea leaves contain less caffeine but more EGCG and total catechins than young ones." Alas, the question remains open since "White" tea was not examined in this study. The production of caffein could easily be strongly correlated with light exposure. I will email the authors and suggest they repeat the experiment with white tea. If the result is "caffein lower" this could be a significant selling point.

In Mutation Research 495 (2001) 61-74, Santana-Rios et al studied extracts of Exotica China White tea and Dragonwell Premium Green tea. They brewed the tea at 2g tea leaves for 100ml water for 5 minutes, and found that the white tea contained 4.109% caffeine, and the green tea contained 2.014% caffeine. For 100ml, this would be 82mg caffeine for the white tea and 40mg caffeine for the green tea. These are two data points- a conclusion should not be made from that. But it calls into question any source which says "white tea contains less caffeine than green tea", that hasn't measured it. MatthewEHarbowy 18:50, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Another issue could be density: Ie if using loose-leaf tea by the teaspoonful (rather than pre-weighed tea bags), it might weigh a different amount by the variety of tea used. I've also heard that the majority of the caffeine exits the tea leaf normally in about the first 45 seconds of brewing (not sure if that's accurate), so even at a lower water temperature it might allow for around the same amount of caffeine to enter the cup. Too many variables. 69.85.180.209 08:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links...

I find it rather strange that Babelcarp somehow ended up under external links; its a clear 'dictionary' of tea and it can be used as a reference for most tea questions, its certainly a source. 69.123.33.133 I cant see why you moved it. --Iateasquirrel 00:10, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Some links from WhiteTea.cc seem to be legitimate, others (i.e. they seem to be original) but others are blatantly spam. --Iateasquirrel 19:56, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Hence added to External Links, does this seem about right? --Iateasquirrel 22:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Health benefits

WHen the article said that a "recent study" showed the health effects of white tea, it didn't carify which study it was(ie.what lab, which docter...)

[edit] History

The history section seems to have remarkably little information in it. The only historical information given is a speculation that tea may have originally been prepared like white tea. Unless someone finds something good to add to it, or is very attached to the section for some reason, I will delete it soon.--Lesnail 18:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

• The appropriate course of action when you come across a section that is too short is to add the {{expandsection}} tag, which I have now done for you. | Mr. Darcy talk 03:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fried Tea??

I assume "The leaves are steamed or fried to inactivate polyphenol oxidation, and then dried." is a typo. The article later discusses fired teas.

Should this be changed?

[edit] references/citation

This article is completely unreferenced. I notice that one uncited health claim was removed recently; why wasn't the whole article removed (especially the history section, which I have tried to wikify a little) :) Abtract 22:58, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to only remove claims which were dubious and which had been tagged needing citation for a while. MatthewEHarbowy 23:06, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] withered or steamed?

Some pages, such as [3], claim white tea is steamed, and sometimes fermented (oxidized).

Other pages, such as [4], don't claim that it is steamed, but instead claim that it is withered and sun-dried.

It is clear that the distinctive character of white tea is the silver needles, however these hairs are found on other teas such as golden needle Yunnan. It is not clear that one can conclude that white tea is chemically different from green tea based upon the analysis of a single white tea and a single green tea from one vendor in a single test, as in the citation of Santana-Rios et al (Mutat Res 495 61-74 2001). Catechin levels in tea plants vary widely and a subject to variation in clone, light, weather, age, fertilizer, etc. It sounds and smells like marketing speak. One cannot tell if a given tea is "white tea" because no definitive test is asserted.

It is my opinion that white tea should be merged with green tea, unless it can be shown that there is a distinctive test, such as a golden appearance to the leaf (versus green, such as found on pai mu tan) is the distinctive charaterization, and can show that a single processing variation (be it shading, which would possible lower chlorophyll production and impart yellow; or steaming, which would freeze the enzymes; or withering and sun-drying, which would potentially also convert green to yellow) is the distinctive difference between silver needle white teas and other teas which have silver or gold needles.

Also, if the argument be made that say, only Fujian tea can be white, then a scientific classification must be showing how the soil, growing conditions, or plant clonal variety is specific to the region, or else the distinction is a legalistic one, such as a Beaujolais or Champagne appellation. This should be stated.

MatthewEHarbowy 19:30, 14 January 2007 (UTC)