Talk:White Dragon (England)

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References that maybe useful for this stub:

Archbishop of Canterbury talks about this here : [1]

It is historically referenced here: [2]

It does NOT appear in the Bayeux Tapestry. A red dragon is shown there. Vague appearances of dragons, but other creatures do border the tapestry, but this does not make it correct.

Actually - yes it does. Closer inspection reveals 3 possible white dragons. I stand corrected. White43 11:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

It is very similar in design to the Wessex Flag(Golden Wyvern on red) and Kent(White Horse on Red).

Correction - they may have used a White Horse, not necessarily on red - alike Wessex, used a Golden Wyvern, not necessarily on red! White43 11:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Historically, it's only ever referenced by the Welsh.

Correction. Golden Wyvern referenced by Henry of Huntingdon and Matthew of Westminster, both post-Saxon times. Although Henry probably was alive before the Norman occupation. However, they both reference the Golden Dragon at Burford, some 400 years earlier.White43 11:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The following comments are taken from here : [3]

Comment on White Dragon Emblem My job is the Secretary of the English Flag Society and as such I have more than a passing interest in the White Dragon Flag of the English. As an historian and vexillologist constantly examining our Early English history between the 3rd and 11th Centuries I came across numerous anecdotal, pictorial and written references to the creatures both real and mythical that featured as symbols in the lives of our early kin. These references - not in any particular order - include the Roman historian Tacitus, the epic Beowulf, Trajans Column, the English (Bayeaux) Tapestry a copy of which can be seen in Reading Museum, Nennius, legends of dragon prowed warships and so on. Remember, historical records have been written by someone and that someone has inevitably written with a slant or bias. It is unavoidable. Prejudice, even in a mild form will corrupt the narrative. It is a natural consequence and often perpetrated unknowingly. That is why, in this brief explanation of events I have avoided quoting Anglo/Normans such as William of Malmesbury and Geoffrey of Monmouth The creatures that featured in the daily lives of the Angles, Jutes and Saxons were naturally, horses, pigs wild fowl and the birds of the forests. Such was the familiarity and such was the respect accorded to some such as the boar, the horse and particularly the raven that they entered emblematic status. But one creature above all others in terms of its numerous references was the dragon which, though mythical had a very long historical pedigree having migrated from the tribes of the East to the armies of Rome through their contact with these tribes and then similarly to the North German tribes who were constantly at war with Rome and although often defeated, had never been conquered. It was then a matter of time before our German ancestors crossed the North Sea bringing not only their bloodline but also their culture. There are some who would argue that the White Dragon and the White Horse the emblem of Kent are one and the same. There are similarities. Given the exigencies of daily life 1500 years ago, I do not think that folk would have been to preoccupied with what they would see as unnecessary detail. The subject of the colours of the White Dragon Flag are uppermost in some minds. Remember, apart from human or animal urine there were no efficient bleaching agents. White would be more akin to beige, fawn or even gold. To give colour, vegetable or fruit dyes were in common use. A bright red would not have existed. Instead, red would be more the colour we know as maroon reflecting the blackberry or elderberry fruits used to dye cloth. The re-discovery of the White Dragon Flag of the English has, for the English Flag Society, been an exhausting, exciting and ultimately fruitful accomplishment. One aspect of this Flag not to be overlooked, is that it is non religious and carries no baggage such as to offend anyone in our polarised society. For the English as well as our guests, it is a Flag completely free of any taint. It can fly as a successor or as an accompaniment to the present Red Cross. John Green The English Flag Society

Comment on White Dragon Emblem posted 2006-11-24 by John Green from Hayling Island Hampshire, PO11 0PQ

It would be nice if this historian would cite his ACTUAL references, rather than referring to them. White43 13:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Lots of updates made - added more Bayeux references, Henry of Huntingdon and Matthew of Westminster. More references added.White43 11:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)